This week, Matt is joined by terrorism researcher Jacob Ware to unpack the rise of nihilistic violent extremism—attacks carried out by disaffected young men radicalized online without any clear political goal. They explore how social media fuels this chaotic new threat, why the FBI created a new classification for it, and what makes networks like 764 and the Order of Nine Angles so dangerous. Then, they turn to the recent string of violent antisemitic attacks in the US and what they reveal about the blurred lines between far-left, far-right, and jihadist extremism. It’s a disturbing look at the future of terrorism, and what it means when violence itself becomes the ideology.

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Get Jacob’s book, God, Guns, and Sedition: Far-Right Terrorism in America:

https://www.cfr.org/book/god-guns-and-sedition

https://www.amazon.com/God-Guns-Sedition-Far-Right-Terrorism/dp/0231211228

Jacob’s work for the Council on Foreign Relations: https://www.cfr.org/expert/jacob-ware

Jacob’s work for Lawfare: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/contributors/jware

Follow Jacob on Bluesky & Twitter/X:

https://bsky.app/profile/jacobware.bsky.social

https://x.com/Jacob_A_Ware

"Nihilistic Violent Extremism: A Valuable Stride Forward in American Counterterrorism" by Jacob Ware | Just Security: https://www.justsecurity.org/113463/nihilistic-violent-extremism-american-counterterrorism/

"Killing for Nothing: The Bizarre Logic of the Palm Springs Bomber" by Luke Baumgartner | Lawfare: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/killing-for-nothing--the-bizarre-logic-of-the-palm-springs-bomber

"Order of Nine Angles" by Nick Lowles | Hope Not Hate: https://hopenothate.org.uk/2019/02/16/state-of-hate-2019-order-of-nine-angles/

"The Rise of Antisemitism and Political Violence in the U.S." by Callum Sutherland | Time Magazine: https://time.com/7287941/rise-of-antisemitism-political-violence-in-united-states/

"Court papers say suspect in embassy killings declared, ‘I did it for Palestine, I did it for Gaza’" by Eric Tucker, Michael Kunzelman, and Alanna Durkin Richer | Associated Press: https://apnews.com/article/israel-embassy-jewish-museum-shooting-10307b3b1a2a337e76730736b12ebbcb

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Music by Andrew R. Bird

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.

Ukraine’s audacious drone assault on Russian airbases, codenamed Operation Spiderweb, leads this week’s episode, as Chris and Matt break down how Kyiv may have just kneecapped Russia’s strategic bomber fleet in a single strike. They dig into what it means for Russia’s nuclear deterrent, the future of force protection, and the broader trajectory of the war. Then, a Star Wars fan site turns out to be a front for CIA covert communications. Matt unpacks how it worked, why it failed, and the lives it may have cost. Plus, a rare public appearance by RAT55, the Air Force’s bizarre stealth-measuring 737, raises questions about Area 51, classified drones, and the durability of U.S. air dominance in a drone-saturated world.

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Audio: https://pod.fo/e/2e1099

YouTube: https://youtu.be/PcO9r-7x8lk

"What Ukraine’s Unprecedented Drone Attack Means For Russia’s Bomber Force" by Thomas Newdick | The War Zone: https://www.twz.com/air/what-ukraines-unprecedented-drone-attack-means-for-russian-bomber-force

"The CIA Secretly Ran a Star Wars Fan Site" by Joseph Cox | 404 Media: https://www.404media.co/the-cia-secretly-ran-a-star-wars-fan-site/

"The CIA's communications suffered a catastrophic compromise. It started in Iran." by Zach Dorfman & Jenna McLaughlin | Yahoo News: https://www.yahoo.com/news/cias-communications-suffered-catastrophic-compromise-started-iran-090018710.html

"America’s Throwaway Spies" by Joel Schectman & Bozorgmehr Sharafedin | Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-spies-iran/

"World’s Most Secretive 737 Just Made A Very Rare Appearance" by Tyler Rogoway | The War Zone: https://www.twz.com/air/worlds-most-secretive-737-rat55-just-made-a-rare-public-appearance

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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Photos by Maxar

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.

In this conversation, Patrick Strickland discusses his experiences as a conflict reporter, particularly focusing on the refugee crisis in Greece and the rise of the neo-Nazi party Golden Dawn. He shares insights into the socio-political landscape that allowed Golden Dawn to thrive, their violent tactics, and their connections with international far-right movements. Strickland emphasizes the importance of understanding these dynamics in the context of global far-right trends and the ongoing challenges faced by refugees and migrants. In this conversation, Patrick Strickland discusses the normalization of extremist rhetoric in mainstream politics, particularly in relation to migration and right-wing narratives. He highlights the impact of disinformation on humanitarian efforts and the legal challenges faced by those trying to assist refugees. The discussion also covers the significance of the Golden Dawn trial in Greece, emphasizing the need for ongoing vigilance against fascism and the importance of education in recognizing the signs of rising extremism. Strickland calls for policymakers to consider humane approaches to migration and to learn from past mistakes in handling refugee crises.

Learn more about Patrick and his reporting: https://www.patrickobrienstrickland.com

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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Photos by Giorgos Georgiou/NurPhoto

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.

Chris is feeling a bit under the weather, so unfortunately, there’s no Espresso Martini this weekend. However, on Wednesday, we’ll release his interview with journalist Patrick Strickland on the rise and fall of the Greek far-right. Then, either the following Saturday or Wednesday, Matt will welcome back Jacob Ware to discuss his recent article for Just Security on "nihilistic violent extremism" and the awful attack on two Israeli embassy staffers in DC. Please keep an eye out for those. Apologies for the delay, but thank you for bearing with us. We’ll be back soon.

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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.

Chris speaks with researcher and author Ross Downing about his book Germanic and Slavic Paganism: Security Threats and Resiliency. Ross, who works with a network of scholars and specialists focused on minority religions and extremism, explores how modern pagan traditions, particularly those rooted in Germanic and Slavic identity, are increasingly weaponized by extremist movements on both sides of the Ukraine War. From the myth of the warrior ideal to the role of neo-paganism in Russian special forces and the Azov movement, Ross unpacks the ideological messiness, spiritual camouflage, and social vulnerabilities that make these belief systems ripe for radicalization. They also discuss the “folkish vs. inclusive” divide, the algorithm’s role in spreading conspiratorial spirituality, and why mainstream institutions need to step up—not just to contain extremism, but to support resilient, non-violent expressions of cultural identity.

Find Ross’s book: https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/germanic-and-slavic-paganisms-9781350423916/

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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Photo by Olga Maltseva/AFP

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.

There will be no show today. Our next show will be on Saturday 24th May, which will be an interview with Ross Downing, looking at Pagan Extremism, Warrior Myths, and the Culture Wars of Russia and Ukraine.

Our next Espresso Martini will be on Saturday 31st May.

 

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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.

This week, Chris and Matt break down the uneasy truce reached between India and Pakistan after weeks of escalating violence, with the Trump administration stepping in late to help broker a ceasefire and avert a possible nuclear crisis. Then, former NSA and CIA director Gen. Michael Hayden issues a stark warning about the dangers of personal loyalty tests in national security—raising concerns about competence, dissent, and decision-making at the highest levels. Finally, the guys examine President Trump’s controversial plan to accept a former Qatari royal jet as a temporary Air Force One, weighing the security, ethical, and logistical risks of putting the president aboard a previously foreign-owned aircraft.

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"From missiles to ceasefire: how India and Pakistan pulled back from the brink" by Shah Meer Baloch & Hannah Ellis-Petersen | The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/12/how-india-and-pakistan-conflict-turned-from-brink-of-war-to-ceasefire-in-days

"As Truce Seems to Hold, India and Pakistan Both Claim Victory" by Anupreeta Das, Salman Masood & Hari Kumar | The New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/11/world/asia/india-pakistan-kashmir-ceasefire.html

"Vance called Indian prime minister to encourage ceasefire talks after receiving alarming intelligence, sources say" by Alayna Treene | CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/10/politics/vance-modi-india-pakistan-intelligence

"When It Comes to National Security, Loyalty Tests Should Have No Place" by Gen. Michael Hayden | The Cipher Brief: https://www.thecipherbrief.com/column_article/when-it-comes-to-national-security-loyalty-tests-should-have-no-place

"Trump administration poised to accept 'palace in the sky' as a gift for Trump from Qatar" by Jonathan Karl & Katherine Faulders | ABC News: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-administration-poised-accept-palace-sky-gift-trump/story?id=121680511

"Corruption and a Security Catastrophe in Plane Sight" by Garrett Graff | Doomsday Scenario on Substack: https://www.doomsdayscenario.co/p/corruption-and-a-security-catastrophe-in-plane-sight-c5cd67a113caf678

"Turning Qatar’s Gifted 747 Into Air Force One Will Be Anything But Free" by Howard Altman & Tyler Rogoway | The War Zone: https://www.twz.com/air/turning-qatars-gifted-747-into-air-force-one-will-be-anything-but-free

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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Photos by Senior Airman Nathan Wingate/USAF

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.

Candace Rondeaux joins Chris to unpack the dark mythology and hard realities behind the Wagner Group, drawing from her investigative book Putin’s Sledgehammer. They explore Wagner’s roots in post-Soviet chaos, its fusion of state power and criminal underworlds, and its critical role in Russia’s foreign policy ambitions from Syria to Africa to Ukraine. Candace explains how Wagner became a key tool for circumventing sanctions, selling arms, spreading disinformation, and exporting Russia’s influence under the guise of deniability. They discuss the rise and fall of Yevgeny Prigozhin, Wagner’s shadowy presence in Zelensky’s early presidency, and how the group evolved into today’s “Africa Corps.” Plus: assassination attempts, troll farms, and how a sledgehammer murder became a viral propaganda symbol.

Find more on Candace's research on Wagner here: https://uncoveringwagner.org/

Find Putin's Sledgehammer here: 

https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/candace-rondeaux/putins-sledgehammer/9781541703087/

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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Photo by TASS & Reuters

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode unpacks global events through the lens of intelligence and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and analysts.

In this week’s Espresso Martini, Chris and Matt dig into a wave of elections across the UK, Canada, and Australia, exploring what they signal for populist movements, center-left parties, and Trump-style politics beyond US borders. They break down the rise of Reform UK, growing concerns over Nigel Farage’s influence, and why British voters seem caught in a cycle of backlash politics. Then, a pair of liberal wins in Canada and Australia suggest that even the faintest whiff of Trumpism remains a liability overseas. Finally, they dissect the demotion of Mike Waltz, explain why combining the roles of secretary of state and national security advisor is historically fraught, and ask whether the Trump White House has learned anything—or simply become more ruthless in its chaos. All that, plus Larry the Cat for PM, the specter of Musk in British politics, and an earnest thank-you to recent reviewers.

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Audio: https://pod.fo/e/2d365f

YouTube: https://youtu.be/fenomGCz6Ys

“Farage claims Reform UK local election gains ‘beginning of the end’ for Tories" by Peter Walker, Eleni Courea, and Kiran Stacey | The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/02/farage-reform-uk-local-elections-beginning-of-the-end-for-tories

"Does Farage own the future?" by Andrew Marr | The New Statesman: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2025/05/does-farage-own-the-future

"First Canada, Now Australia: The Trump Factor Boosts Another World Leader in an Election" by Mike Cherney | The Wall Street Journal: https://www.wsj.com/world/first-canada-now-australia-the-trump-factor-boosts-another-world-leader-in-a-close-election-bef1c5a1

“Inside Mike Waltz’s White House Exit" by Isaac Stanley-Becker, Ashley Parker, Jonathan Lemire & Shane Harris | The Atlantic: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/05/03/waltz-trump-israel

"Inside Waltz’s ouster: Before Signalgate, talks with Israel angered Trump" by Michael Birnbaum, John Hudson, Emily Davies, Sarah Ellison & Natalie Allison | The Washington Post: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/05/mike-waltz-trump-fired/682660

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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Photos by Daniel Torok/White House

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode unpacks global events through the lens of intelligence and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and analysts.

Chris chats with Bruce Talley, a former Russia-based businessman who now helps foreign companies set up operations in Ukraine and matches investors with projects

They explore the complex nature of doing business in Russia, including how it’s changed since the 1990s, the red flags Talley missed, and the moment he realized the system was irredeemably corrupt. He shares what it’s like to be surveilled by the FSB, the limits of Western legal remedies, and how Russia’s criminal networks evolved into tools of statecraft. They also discuss the risks facing Western investors, the Kremlin’s strategy of normalized theft, and what Bruce’s work today reveals about the intersection of cybercrime and geopolitical power.

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Bruce’s blog: http://brucetalley.com

Bruce’s company, Destination Ukraine: https://destination-ukraine.com 

Audio: https://pod.fo/e/2d201a

YouTube: https://youtu.be/pzpVi_PQmGM

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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Photo by Shamil Zhumatov/Reuters & Sergei Guneyev/AP

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode unpacks global events through the lens of intelligence and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and analysts.