As tensions continue to mount in the U.S.-China relationship, the traditional understanding of international security, with many countries choosing between U.S.-led security and China-led economic growth, is increasingly outdated. Instead, a new dynamic has emerged, where many countries now seek security cooperation with both the United States and China at the same time.

In an interview conducted on July 24, 2025, Sheena Greitens and Isaac Kardon joined Phillip C. Saunders to discuss the rising phenomenon of third countries' "security hybridization" and the implications for the U.S.-China relationship.

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