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Michael Tracey joins me to talk about the crazy groupchat story. We discuss why this has caught on, and whether it tells us anything new about the administration and how it operates. See here for the full release. I argue that the reason that this is such a big story is that it’s the kind of awkward situation people can relate to in their personal lives, except in this case it happened to top administration officials while planning a military strike.

Michael and I then debate the logic that was used to justify the attack on Yemen. We go back and forth on the question of whether “deterrence” or “credibility” can be a good reason to do something. Michael says no, but I disagree.

I play this hilarious video of Steve Witkoff talking about the special relationship between Trump and Putin. See these articles on Putin’s religious beliefs.

Finally, we close with what has been going on with immigration enforcement. Of all the things that the Trump administration is doing, this might be the most disturbing. ICE has apparently been hunting down a Columbia student who is a legal permanent resident and has been in the US since she was 7. Venezuelans are getting sent to a Salvadoran prison camp based on allegations that they have gang ties. We’re not talking about people convicted of crimes, or even arrested for crimes. Simple speculation about who they are means that they get locked up indefinitely! Michael notes that this goes well beyond anything that Bush and Cheney did back when they were criticized for violating civil rights. See here for the latest legal news on this that broke as I was typing these show notes.

For the thumbnail, see here.