When you're building something with a co-founder or even partners (like, say this podcast), it’s not just your business that needs tending—your relationship is the business.

In this episode, we talk with psychologist and leadership coach Dr. Matthew Jones to talk about the often-overlooked emotional labor of working in partnership. We explore the dynamics that make co-founding relationships thrive (or fail), and what it looks like to prioritize care, communication, and clarity in a space that’s often full of pressure, ambition, and high stakes.

We also talk about how to navigate conflict before it turns into resentment, how to separate identity from performance, and why leading with someone else requires emotional maturity—not just shared goals.

Whether you’re co-leading a business, collaborating on a big project, or just trying to make it work with a fellow human in your orbit, this episode is a reminder: the relationship is the container.

* Why your co-founder relationship is the most important “system” in your business

* How to name the power dynamics that exist—and move through them with care

* The three languages present in co-founder communication - and why overindexing on “goals” might be counterproductive

* Building routines that strengthen the relationship, not just the company (think “date nights”, but for co-founders)

* How we can (and can’t) use AI to help us communicate with our co-founder

* Why emotional fluency is core to shared leadership

* Matt’s journey of self-publishing

About our Guest

Dr. Matthew Jones

The Cofounder Effect: How to Diagnose, Fix, and Scale Healthy Communication for Startup Success

Mentioned Resources

John and Julie Gottman

Imago Therapy

Noam Wasserman’s The Founder’s Dilemma

Connect with Us

Listen on Spotify

Listen on Apple Podcasts

Connect with Meg and Jessica

Meg Casebolt

Jessica Lackey

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com