From the algorithms that curate your social media feed to the recommendation systems that influence what you buy, artificial intelligence is quietly reshaping every aspect of our daily lives. Yet most of us remain in the dark about how these powerful technologies are governed—and that's a problem we can't afford to ignore.

Artificial Intelligence (or AI) policy isn't just about tech regulation; it's about who gets to shape the future of work, privacy, and power in our increasingly digital world. The rules being written today will determine whether AI serves all of society or just a privileged few.

In this episode of Talking Indonesia, Dr Elisabeth Kramer dives into Indonesia's approach to AI governance, taking its cues from the private sector, with guest Diah Angendari.

Diah Angendari is a PhD Candidate at Leiden University and her dissertation examines the interplay between imaginaries, power, and interests in policymaking. She’s using the case study of AI in Indonesia to understand the factors that shape these policies. Prior to joining the PhD program, Diah was a lecturer in the Department of Communication Science at Gadjah Mada University.

Palm oil contributes to up 4.5% to Indonesia’s GDP and unlike other commodities, the Indonesian government promotes palm oil as motor of rural development. This is because up to half of Indonesia’s palm oil production is generated by smallholders, farmers with 2-3 hectares of land, cultivating oil palm crops and selling the product for reliable market prices to corporate and state refineries.

But this model of national development is in crisis. Small holder palm oil plants are aging, yields are decreasing and company profits are becoming leaner. At the same time, major markets are putting pressure on Indonesia’s palm oil industry for its environmental impact, including rampant deforestation and biodiversity loss.

To address this crisis, the former Jokowi government embarked on an ambitious plan to help small holders replant their declining palm oil, this time in accordance with new standards of sustainability. But as my guest, Ara Simanjuntak, today reveals, the new government grants given to smallholders to help is creating new sources of precarity, anxiety and indebtedness that is fundamentally transforming the nature of rural development in Indonesia.

To bet the farm, the title of this episode, is an expression in English. It means to risk everything on an uncertain outcome. And this, argues Ara is akin to what Indonesia’s palm oil smallholders are being asked to do. To talk about these issues, I’m here with Atmaezer Hariara Simanjuntak, or Ara, PhD candidate in Anthropology from Northwestern University.

Nurwanto Nurwanto - School Violence and Bullying

In recent months Indonesians have grown increasingly concerned and indeed outraged following several reports of deadly violence involving children as young as elementary school age. In a case in Riau in May an eight-year-old boy died after complications due to a ruptured appendix, which his parents believe was the result of beatings he suffered at the hands of fellow students aged 11-13 years. Around the same time, a video when viral of a brawl involving 20 primary school aged children in Depok. In response, the Governor of West Java, Dedi Mulyadi, called for the students involved to be sent to military camps.

These recent cases have focused the country’s attention on what has been a critical issue for some time. In 2024 the Indonesian Child Protection Commission (KPAI) reported that cases of violence among school students had increased 32%, and a 2018 PISA survey showed that 41% of Indonesian students aged 15 years reported being bullied, nearly double the OECD average of 23%.

Across various levels of government and among stakeholders a range of regulations and taskforces have been established to tackle the issue, but they are falling short. What is school violence and bullying and why is it becoming more prevalent among young people? What are schools, parents and policymakers currently doing to tackle it, and what more needs to be done?

In this week's episode Jemma chats with Nurwanto, a lecturer education at Universitas Muhammadiyah Yogyakarta. His Phd thesis is titled 'Nurturing peace through education: advocating a pedagogy of love in urban schools in Yogyakarta, Indonesia', University of Western Sydney, 2023.

In 2025, the Talking Indonesia podcast is co-hosted by Dr Jemma Purdey from the Australia-Indonesia Centre, Dr Jacqui Baker from Murdoch University, Dr Elisabeth Kramer from the University of New South Wales and Tito Ambyo from RMIT.

Image: Flickr CC/lau rey

Justinus Lhaksana - Indonesian Football and the Road to the 2026 World Cup

In October 2022, the image of Indonesian football filling news bulletins around the world was one of tragedy and horror at the huge loss of life sparked by clashes between fans and security agents at a football match in Kanjuruhan, East Java. Less than three years later, this image is being replaced some by something quite different. In June this year, Indonesia did what no other Southeast Asian football team has done since the 1930s and proceeded to the fourth round of qualifying for the FIFA World Cup to be held in Canada, Mexico and the USA in 2026.

To get this far Indonesia beat both China and Bahrain at home after going down to Australia and Japan away in the third round of qualifying. Now, only two matches stand between this team becoming the first to represent the Republic of Indonesia at a FIFA World Cup. In 1938, it was the first Asian nation to go to a FIFA World Cup but was of course competing under the Dutch East Indies flag.

The success of the Indonesian national team or Timnas Garuda, so far is due to a well-orchestrated plan to bolster the team from without and make significant investment within.

Reeling from the Kanjuruhan tragedy and the international and domestic response to it, in February 2023, Joko Widodo appointed Erick Thohir, the Minister for State-Owned Enterprises in his government, as the new chairman of the Football Association of Indonesia (PSSI) with a mandate for the total reform of football, to tackle its myriad problems. For Thohir, a millionaire former owner of football teams in Europe, North America and Indonesia and with deep links in FIFA itself, this was also an opportunity to reshape Indonesian football from the top down.

The project to reform the national team had in fact started some years earlier under the then South Korean coach, Shin Tae-yong. At its core was the recruitment of players of Dutch descent who after naturalisation would qualify to play for Indonesia. Since 2020, at least 15 players in the men's team have been naturalised and very recently four Dutch women footballers of Indonesian descent were also naturalised and will play in the Indonesian squad. The next major milestone in this larger plan came in January this year, with the appointment of former Dutch superstar Patrick Kluivert as coach of Timnas. It is now his task to finish the job and get the Garudas to the World Cup.

Why undertake such a project of naturalization for the national teams? How have the fans responded to this influx of imported players? What is the state of Indonesia's domestic football league and down to the grassroots that has made it necessary in the first place? And what will it take for Indonesian football to overcome its challenges and finally take its place on the world stage?

In this week's episode Jemma chats with Justinus Lhaksana, a football commentator (https://www.youtube.com/@CoachJustinl28/videos) and former coach of the Indonesian national futsal team.

In 2025, the Talking Indonesia podcast is co-hosted by Dr Jemma Purdey from the Australia-Indonesia Centre, Dr Jacqui Baker from Murdoch University, Dr Elisabeth Kramer from the University of New South Wales and Tito Ambyo from RMIT.

Image: Image: Eliano Reijnders and Mees Hilgers receive their naturalisation certificates at the Indonesian Embassy in Brussels, 1 October 2024.

When you order food through Gojek or Grab in Indonesia, you're not just getting dinner delivered, but you're also participating in what has become a sophisticated digital platform economy. These food apps have fundamentally transformed how millions of Indonesians eat, shop, and navigate daily life, while generating billions in revenue for tech unicorns that now rival traditional media conglomerates in their cultural influence.

But how exactly are these online food platforms reshaping Indonesian society? And what happens when we compare their impact across different cultural and economic contexts? A fascinating new study by Nadia Egalita, a PhD researcher at RMIT, offers insights into these questions through comparative ethnographic research conducted in Surabaya and Melbourne.

Egalita's research reveals striking disparities in how online food delivery operates across class lines in Indonesia. While upper-middle-class families with domestic workers and dual kitchen systems allow children to order multiple meals daily, lower-middle-class households use these platforms primarily as treats for kids. Meanwhile, in Melbourne, rising costs have made food delivery a luxury that forces people back into their kitchens, challenging assumptions about technology inevitably replacing traditional cooking practices.

Using innovative “digital walkthrough” methods that examine participants' actual ordering histories alongside their stated preferences, Egalita uncovers the gap between what people say they eat and what they actually consume. Her findings challenge common narratives about digital platforms isolating users, instead revealing how families bond over scrolling through menus and negotiating meal choices together.

The research also offers fresh perspectives on platform capitalism, digital labor conditions, and the changing nature of domestic life in Indonesia and Australia. We'll explore how these seemingly simple convenience apps are actually reshaping everything from kitchen design to intergenerational relationships, while examining the regulatory challenges posed by Indonesia's growing platform oligarchy.

In 2025, the Talking Indonesia podcast is co-hosted by Dr Elisabeth Kramer from the University of New South Wales, Dr Jemma Purdey from the Australia-Indonesia Centre, Tito Ambyo from RMIT, and Dr Jacqui Baker from Murdoch University.

Despite significant strides in recent decades, Indonesia continues to face one of Southeast Asia's higher maternal mortality rates. A recent study published by Syaraji and colleagues (2024) found that for every 100,000 live births, approximately 249 women die from pregnancy-related causes.

In Jakarta and other major cities, expectant mothers often access modern facilities staffed by trained professionals. But travel just hours outside these urban hubs, particularly to eastern provinces or remote islands, and the picture changes dramatically. There, a shortage of qualified healthcare workers, limited emergency obstetric services, and challenging geography create significant barriers to care.

The Indonesian government has implemented several initiatives to address these issues, including the deployment of community midwives to rural areas and the expansion of universal health coverage through the Jaminan Kesehatan Nasional program. But implementation gaps remain, with many women still facing obstacles, particularly in terms of medical staff shortages and lack of resources, that discourage them from seeking standard medical care during, and following, their pregnancies.

Joining us is Dr. Sarah Shair-Rosenfield, Professor at the University of York, whose research has looked at healthcare policy implementation and regional disparities in Southeast Asia. Today, Dr. Shair-Rosenfield will help us explore these complexities in Indonesia, drawing on her research across the Indonesian archipelago and across different levels of government to examine what's working, what isn't, and what policy solutions might bridge the gap between urban privilege and rural vulnerability in maternal care.

Dr Shair-Rosenfield's work has been published in a number of prominent journals and by Michigan and Oxford University Presses. She is the editor in chief of the Journal Political Studies and also a founding member of the Women in Southeast Asia Social Sciences network, affectionately known as Wiseass.

Evi Mariani - Media Freedom

In March this year parcels containing a pig’s head and the carcasses of dead rats were sent to the offices of Tempo magazine in Jakarta. The story made international headlines and led to an outpouring of support and condemnation from across Indonesia’s mediascape and public more broadly. Known for its deep investigative reporting the magazine’s chief editor described the brazen threat on its journalists as an act of terrorism. Just weeks after the attack on Tempo, the latest World Press Freedom Index downgraded Indonesia’s rating across all indicators.

Media organisations and news outlets across the world face inevitable decline and are struggling to maintain relevance in the face of competition from social media platforms, content creators and influencers. In Indonesia, mass layoffs of journalists are imminent as the old commercial model collapses. In response, a new, although undeniably small movement of independent journalism is pushing back with the aim of finding new ways to beat both the algorithm and those seeking to suppress press freedoms.

So what is the state of the media in Indonesia today? What protections are in place for journalists and in the midst of political, economic and technological challenges, who will stand up for a free press?

In this week's episode Jemma chats with Evi Mariani, journalist and co-founder of the independent journalism collective, Project Multatuli.

In 2025, the Talking Indonesia podcast is co-hosted by Dr Jemma Purdey from the Australia-Indonesia Centre, Dr Jacqui Baker from Murdoch University, Dr Elisabeth Kramer from the University of New South Wales and Tito Ambyo from RMIT.

Image: With permission Project Multatuli

In recent years, Indonesia has experienced a remarkable transformation in its gaming landscape, with mobile esports emerging as a powerful cultural and economic force. What was once considered a fringe activity now enjoys mainstream legitimacy, supported by both grassroots communities and government institutions.

In this episode, Tito Ambyo speaks with Haryo Pambuko Jiwandono, a PhD candidate at RMIT University researching mobile game esports in Indonesia. They explore how esports in Indonesia has evolved from informal gatherings at internet cafes to a structured industry with professional teams, government support, and international success. In 2024, Indonesia won the FIFA E World Cup against Brazil and dominated in the Football Manager competition against Germany, marking significant achievements on the global stage.

Haryo's research illuminates how mobile games like Mobile Legends and PUBG Mobile have democratised gaming across Indonesia through their accessibility on smartphones, fostering community-centered "play gatherings" in coffee shops and warung. While celebrating these successes, the conversation also examines the precarious economic realities faced by many esports athletes and the challenges for Indonesia's emerging game development industry.

From governmental efforts to build sustainable career paths in esports to the tensions between creative freedom and cultural preservation in game development, this episode offers valuable insights into how digital gaming is reshaping Indonesia's social landscape and contributing to its global cultural footprint.

A growing protest movement

On 28 March, in downtime Jakarta across from the Sarinah department store, an unlikely group of protesters gathered holding signs and making speeches. The crowd largely consisted of middleclass women of various ages, gathered under the name ‘Suara Ibu Indonesia’ (Voices of Indonesian Mothers). For the organisers, the choice of name and location for their protest was deliberately designed to evoke a moment in Indonesia’s past, now 27 years ago, when in the final months of the autocratic Suharto regime an economic and political crisis saw student protests met with deadly violence at the hands of the military and police. Then a group called Suara Ibu Peduli (Voices of Concerned Mothers, SIP), tapped into growing concern within wider society about the state of their country.

In late March 2025, as student protests at campuses and in front of law offices were once again met with violence by state law enforcement, the women who gathered in downtown Jakarta expressed their fear of a return to unbridled militarism and a contempt for democracy. The revision of the Military (TNI) Law a few weeks earlier, which opens the door for active military figures to occupy more and key positions in the government and bureaucracy, appears to have sparked a broadening of the growing protest movement. As one of the original SIP organisers, Karlina Supelli was quoted as saying, “If mothers have joined the protests, this means that the situation has become critical.”

What compelled the Suara Ibu Indonesia protesters to go to the streets now? What are the urgent concerns of activists and students amid a time they describe as ‘Indonesia Gelap’? Can such opposition to the newly installed Prabowo government be sustained for the long haul?

In this week's episode Jemma chats with Olin Montiero, a feminist activist, researcher, writer, consultant and producer. Olin has been working for the women 's movement since the 1990s and was a member of the Suara Ibu Peduli movement in 1998. She has founded several women organisations in Indonesia, including the network Peace Women Across the Globe Indonesia and ArtsforWomen, connecting women activists, artists, art workers and cultural workers for a feminist collaborative space. Olin facilitates feminist networks Jagat Setara (Online platform feminist discussion), Woke Asia Feminist (young feminist in Asia network), and FeministArt Community (a new young people discussion on art creativity and feminism).

In 2025, the Talking Indonesia podcast is co-hosted by Dr Jemma Purdey from the Australia-Indonesia Centre, Dr Jacqui Baker from Murdoch University, Dr Elisabeth Kramer from the University of New South Wales and Tito Ambyo from RMIT.

Image: Olin Monteiro

Bones can tell us so much about the past, not just about the ancestry of modern humans (or homo sapiens) but also about the people and cultures of times long forgotten.

When we think about Indonesia’s place in history, we’re often inclined to think about the histories that shape the socio-cultural and political dynamics we see today. But Indonesia’s global historical significance goes way beyond this when we start considering how Indonesia features in early movements and migrations of humans and how they might have lived.

It's estimated that ancient humans travelled through Wallacea, what we now understand as Eastern Indonesia, at least 50,000 years ago (possibly even before 65,000 years ago) before coming to Australia and its surrounding islands.

There is also evidence of pre-modern ancestry- the most famous, perhaps, being the discovery of skeletal remains in Central Java, which became known as the “Java man,” in the 1890s. These were the first known fossils of the species homo erectus. While difficult to pinpoint precisely, the most recent estimates date these remains to being around 1.3 million years old.

You may also recall the discovery of the Flores hobbits in the early 2000s, when skeletal remains of a species of “tiny humans” was found. These are estimated to be somewhere between 190,000 to 50,000 years old.

Today’s guest is very familiar with the information we can glean from old bones. Dr Melandri Vlok has experience working on archaeological projects in Kalimantan and Sulawesi. She’s a bioarchaeologist and palaeopathologist who specialises in the Asia-Pacific region. One of her truly impressive claims to fame is her work in the discovery of a 31,000 year-old skeleton which shows strong signs of being one of the earliest known examples of a successful amputation, which you can read about in the highly renowned journal Nature. She’s also a member of the exclusive National Geographic Explorers community, having received funding through the program to further her research.