Talking Talmud

Old (fermented) wine that was used for a libation that spills onto grapes will be prohibited or not, depending on it affecting the taste of the grapes. New wine, however, is the subject of dispute - are they only forbidden if the new wine affected their flavor, or any amount would be an issue (it's a machloket between Abaye and Rava, on taste vs. name). Also, the smell of the wine helps evaluate how good it is - via the "bat tiha" - a hole in the wine cask, and the tester would smell the wine at that point (via a tube, etc.). Cumin becomes a parallel example for smell and food, but then it stops short of being a real parallel, because of all the differences between cumin and wine.

Two stories about wine and categories of people: 1. A Jew sent to a non-Jew, on his festival, because he wasn't an idolater. But someone who hasn't converted might still be problematic. 2. Entering a bathhouse with a good number of prostitutes - with the fear of the monarchy or not? How to judge someone, and what if he's not who you think he is? Also, a new mishnah: wine that was used for a libation and skilled on grapes - when can you wash them off? Depending on the taste they give off - or not. Plus, a story to counter the apparent principle of the mishnah - leading into a general rule for application elsewhere. Plus, the Gemara re-writes the mishnah to correct it.

A question is presented before a group of the sages: What is the law regarding the money from a sale of an object of idolatry in the hands of a non-Jew? Similarly, what if a Jew is a creditor for a non-Jew who then sells an object of idolatry and has the funds to pay the Jew back...? The same group receives other questions as well: What about a ger toshav - can he nullify idols? What about when two non-Jews don't share the same idolatrous worship? Would nullifying the worship of the other be effective? Plus, does the Gemara consider all non-Jews, such as a ger toshav, to be idolaters?

A beraita about a man who was with a prostitute - can the money he didn't pay her with be used for purchase for the altar? What monies can be swapped for which? Plus, sacrifices. Also, whether it was permitted to borrow produce from the poor before the shemitah year, and paid them back after the shemitah year. Plus, how a Jewish employer might gift or sponsor his employees leisure purchases.

Chapter 5! And a new mishnah: A non-Jew who hires a Jewish worker raises question as to whether that Jew can accept his wages -- depending on the terms of the entire capacity of the job. For example, when there are mitigating factors to reduce the stringencies towards the idolatry. Also, the prohibitions that are rabbinic in nature - are often reduced, or certainly debated. Also, disposing of the problematic items - in such a way that they cannot be unearthed or reused. Plus, a cemetery that was used for those killed in capital punishment -- what else that might be buried there should be burned.... Plus, the economic question of Jews dealing with non-Jews, given stringencies.

When wine is in an idolater's domain, in a home that opens to the public domain, when is that wine permitted? And if it's in a Jew's domain? But what if the city were entirely idolaters? Also, if a Jew lives in a house in a courtyard owned by a non-Jew, then is that in considered usable or not? Plus, the story of the house of the vizier, and the concerns of sharecroppers how may or may not be messing with the Jews' wine. But if they're messing with the wine, they're unlikely to have the presence of mind to offer libations in the mix of everything else.

An idolater who crushes grapes via a press, but it's still potentially libation. But that's indirect.... and indeed, the wine is prohibited, but there's more room to maneuver than initially believed... Others are more comfortable for one to sell the wine - since it's not prohibited for benefit. Plus, the case of a non-Jew standing next to a vat of wine. And what happens if he indeed falls in?

Rabbi Hiya bar Aba was in a place called Gavla - which place that is specifically is unclear, though suggestions are made - where he saw Jewish young women who were impregnated by men who were in the process of converting to Judaism. Also re their wine. Likewise, he saw Jews eating from bishul akum. He said nothing, but consulted with Rabbi Yochanan later, and he said that the babies must be proclaimed mamzerim, the wine - yein nesach, and so on. Because this population was just not that knowledgeable. Also, how does someone whose wine has become prohibited via a non-Jew's libation, how can that Jew recoup the loss? Isn't that wine prohibited from benefit? That turns out to be a matter of dispute.

An incident took place in Mehoza - a non-Jew asked a Jew if he has wine to sell. After he is told no, he shoves his hand into a barrel of wine and mixes it and asks: Isn't this wine? -- what now is the status of that wine? Note the shofar-blowing to announce the issuance of a "p'sak din" - halakhic decision. To what extent has libation been involved in this kind of case? Moreover, note the different practices and the different levels of knowledge in various places - from Mehoza and Nehardea, and more. (All the cases brought in an attempt to refute Rava) Also, some of the sages were drinking wine, and the invite someone who later was determined to be a non-Jew. Other beverages, including beer, would have a different concerns (or none, as the case may be). If one sees wine, why would they suggest it was beer (maybe it's at night?). Also, note the difference between bishul akum, for example, and the issues here, which are from the Torah, and more concerned about idolatry than fraternizing.

Several stories - indicating that the concern about libation wine was real for them. For example, a person's lulav touching his wine. Or the extreme case of an infant touching the wine (as an example of intent not being the more key element here in declaring wine for libations. Plus, conversions with circumcision and dunking in a mikveh. Plus, the impurity factor, given that status. Note the stringency here, especially given the biblical prohibition. Also, a greater concern that converts who have completed the process are still subject to their original beliefs... or a year or so. Plus, concerns about taint of partial converts with regard to the wine.