Terror Talk: True Crime, Serial Killers and Horror

Donnie Darko and the psychology within, our horror book and movie watches including The Family Across the Street, Alive, Secrets in the Dark, Pieces of Her,  No Exit, The Privilege, Mansquito, and horror facts with Cath and general chat. 

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Discussion of Takashi Miike including his works: Audition, Ichi the Killer, One Missed Call, Over Your Dead Body, Rainy Dog, The Happiness of the Katakuris, Zebraman, plus our horror books (Jigsaw Man) and watches including The Special, I Blame Society, Last Radio Call, Evil Bong 666, Slumber Party Massacre II, Teen Witch, Ice Spiders, and The Curse of Buck Out Road.  

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Discussion of Guillermo Del Toro including his works: Hellboy, Pan's Labyrinth, The Shape of Water, Crimson Peak, Nightmare Alley, Mimic, plus our horror books and watches including the book Hell House, Promising Young Woman, Fresh, Good Neighbors, Hellbender, Memories of a Murderer: The Nilson Tapes. 

Music by Mannequin Uprising Website: https://www.terrortalkpodcast.com Community Membership: https://www.patreon.com/terrortalk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/terrortalkpodcast/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/TalkTerror/

Ted Bundy walked out of a courthouse law library through a second story window, and seven months later he squeezed through a light fixture in a cell he was not supposed to be able to leave. Part six of the Ted Bundy reboot is the escapes, and what he did with the freedom.

CONTENT WARNING: this episode covers the Chi Omega attacks in detail, including bludgeoning, strangulation, biting, sexual assault with an object, and the murder of a twelve-year-old girl. It is the most graphic hour in this series.

CHAPTERS

00:16 Welcome, and Monsterpalooza

01:59 Cathy on synesthesia, and finding out in a neuropsych class that she has it

06:51 The definitive Dolph Lundgren film ranking, by Melody on Medium

08:33 Horror Facts with Cathy

10:12 The reboot resumes: captures, arrests and escapes

13:04 Dr. Al Carlisle, the one-man Bundy could not charm

16:10 Aspen, the law library and the second story window

19:55 The light fixture, the weight loss and the second escape

24:15 Chi Omega, January 15, 1978

26:56 Margaret Bowman and Lisa Levy

28:43 Kathy Kleiner and Karen Chandler survive

30:00 Why nobody in the house sensed it, and what that says about attunement

33:48 Cheryl Thomas, and a rampage that does not stop

36:05 Leslie Parmenter, Kimberly Leach and the arrest

41:55 Mare of Easttown

44:06 The Silencing

45:56 Texas Chainsaw Massacre (2022)

50:06 The Last Matinee

51:59 KIMI

55:22 Malignant

58:11 Horror Facts answers

THE EPISODE

The escapes are the part everyone knows, and nobody explains. Cathy and Shannon take the interesting question instead: not how Bundy got out, but why two separate institutions let him. The answer they land on is not incompetence. It is that the guards and the court had a narcissism of their own, a belief that a man they had been kind to and who had been pleasant back could not possibly outsmart them. Shannon reaches for the Stanford Prison Experiment. Bundy played subservient for months and walked through the door the moment it opened.

Then Chi Omega, and the register changes completely. Four women attacked inside an hour, two of them killed, and Cheryl Thomas down the street afterwards. Cathy sits with the thing that unsettles her most, which is that a woman came home into a house where two people had already been beaten and simply went to bed. Shannon's answer is about attunement, and about how many people never learn to read what a room is telling them.

CORRECTIONS

Bundy was charged with Caryn Campbell's murder in October 1976 and moved to Colorado for trial. He was not convicted of it. He escaped before that trial began. He was arrested in Pensacola on February 15, 1978, six days after Kimberly Leach was taken.

LOOKING FOR THE REST OF THE SERIESAll eight parts are on the feed. Search Terror Talk plus SHRINK CHAT for: No Man of God; Midsommar and Hereditary; the Hillside Strangler; Ann Rule; Janice Ott and Denise Naslund; Kimberly Leach; Carole Ann Boone; and Georgann Hawkins.

SOURCES

Ann Rule, The Stranger Beside Me. Dr. Al Carlisle's Utah State Prison evaluation, 1976. Florida State Attorney records on the Chi Omega prosecution. Stephen Michaud and Hugh Aynesworth, The Only Living Witness.

Two licensed therapists, one forensic psychologist, one clinical LMFT, take apart the minds behind the crimes.

Got a haunted story of your own? Send it to [email protected] and we may read it on the show.

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Discussion of Werewolves including The Howling, American Werewolf in London and Silver Bullet, Bad Moon, Wolf, Werewolves Within, The Wolf of Snow Hollow including the psychological underpinnings plus our horror watches including Antlers, Those Who Wish Me Dead, They Live in the Grey, and The Trip.

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Ted Bundy abducted two women from a crowded beach on the same afternoon, in front of hundreds of witnesses, and still walked away clean. Part five of the Ted Bundy reboot is where the killings start and where the first real crack appears.

CONTENT WARNING: murder, abduction, sexual violence, necrophilia, and the killing of a teenage girl. Discussed clinically but discussed plainly.

CHAPTERS

00:35 Welcome, Patreon news and the Sex, Lies and the Sociopath article series

03:17 Horror Facts with Cathy

05:41 The reboot resumes: the trajectory of the killings

07:44 Lake Sammamish, July 14, 1974

09:13 Janice Ott, then Denise Naslund hours later

12:25 The composite sketch, the Volkswagen and the girlfriend who recognized him

15:12 Utah, and the pattern repeats

16:11 Carol DaRonch escapes, and what Bundy does that same night

21:26 Stop down: mirror neurons, cognitive empathy and why the lure worked

29:20 Books: Darcy Coates and the Black Winter series

36:35 Simon Pegg, Nerd Do Well

39:04 Aileen Wuornos: American Boogeywoman, and why it fails her story

42:18 The Woman in the House Across the Street from the Girl in the Window

44:51 After Life, And Just Like That, Pivoting, Somebody Somewhere

50:09 The Invitation (2015)

52:20 Horror Facts answers

THE EPISODE

This is the section where Bundy stops being a childhood and becomes a body count. Cathy walks the Lake Sammamish abductions, the arm sling, the fake badge, the murder kit in the back of the Volkswagen, and the possession behavior that kept him returning to the bodies. Shannon takes the stop down into mirror neurons and cognitive empathy: how a person with no affective empathy learns the mechanics of it well enough to mimic it, and why someone sitting in a trauma state is far less likely to notice the attunement is not there. It is the clearest explanation yet in this series of why the sling worked.

Carol DaRonch is the reason there is a case at all. She got out of the car. Without her there may have been no arrest.LOOKING FOR THE REST OF THE SERIESAll eight parts are on the feed. Search Terror Talk plus SHRINK CHAT for: No Man of God and Ted Bundy American Boogeyman; Ted Bundy's Childhood, Midsommar and Hereditary; Ted Bundy's Teen Years and the Hillside Strangler; Ted Bundy's College Years and Ann Rule; Janice Ott, Denise Naslund and Aileen Wuornos; Ted Bundy's Escapes and Kimberly Leach; Ted Bundy's Trial and Carole Ann Boone; and Ted Bundy's Execution and Georgann Hawkins.

SOURCES

Ann Rule, The Stranger Beside Me. Elizabeth Kendall, The Phantom Prince. King County Sheriff's Office records on the Issaquah recovery site. Carol DaRonch's testimony, Utah v. Bundy, 1976.

Two licensed therapists, one forensic psychologist, one clinical LMFT, take apart the minds behind the crimes.

Got a haunted story of your own? Send it to [email protected] and we may read it on the show.

🎧 LISTEN TO THE FULL PODCAST APPLE PODCASTS: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/terror-talk-true-crime-serial-killers-and-horror/id1435529687

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The College Admissions Scandal and the ramifications of parents expectations on kids is today's topic. Our horror book and film discussions include The Haunted Vagina, The Twisted Ones, Archive 81, McMillions, Seance, The Tinder Swindler and Horror Facts with Cath.

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He was twenty one, in his first relationship. She ended it. Every woman he killed looked like her.

⚠️ Trigger warning: This episode includes discussion of murder, child sexual abuse allegations, and screen violence.

2 February 2022. The college years, the humiliation that turned him, and 2021's best true crime documentaries.

TED BUNDY, THE COLLEGE YEARS

He enters the University of Washington at twenty one and tries on a new personality: confident, witty, secure with women. Then he meets Diane Edwards, known to most people by her pseudonym Stephanie Brooks. Long brown hair parted in the middle, and by his own measure above him. It lasted a year. She ended it because he was not mature enough and was not going anywhere. He dropped out and went home.

Cathy on the injury underneath it: what a narcissist falls in love with is what he comes to hate, because he needs it and cannot bear it being better than him. Shannon on the mechanism, which is not rejection but humiliation, one of the largest risk factors in narcissists and offenders.

Then the second blow. He goes to City Hall to look into his own family and confirms what he suspected at ten: his sister is his mother. Two women, and he has been made a fool by both. Many theorists put the revenge killings right here.

The layers, stacked: brain chemistry he was born with, a violent home where he identified with the abuser rather than the victim, no safe caregiver and so no model for empathy, an unstable identity, early exposure to sex paired with violence, then humiliation as the switch. Never one cause, and the less time between traumas the lower the resistance.

He returns to UW in 1971 and takes a psychology degree, the only qualification he ever finished. Cathy on why psychopaths are not treated in therapy: they get better at it, they mimic, they use it. He works a suicide crisis hotline beside Ann Rule, who never suspects him and who will write The Stranger Beside Me. In 1974 he enrols at Utah law school, lasts seven months, and becomes a rising Republican star while women begin disappearing across the Pacific Northwest.

Next time in the relisten: the killing years.

THE TEN BEST TRUE CRIME DOCUMENTARIES OF 2021

From Decider, read out in full. Operation Varsity Blues. Bad Sport. Murder Among the Mormons and the Mark Hofmann forgeries. Night Stalker, which Cathy says does not belong. The Way Down and Gwen Shamblin Lara. John Wayne Gacy: Devil in Disguise. LuLaRich. The Lady and the Dale. The Phantom and Carlos DeLuna. At number one, Allen v. Farrow.

WATCHES

The Wasteland (2021), and why one minute of creature in ninety is not enough. Red Snow (2021), a vampire in the garage at Christmas. Coming Home in the Dark (2021) with Daniel Gillies, brutal from the first minute.

PSYCH READ

Out of the Fog by Dana Morningstar, for people who leave a narcissistic relationship asking what just happened. FOG is fear, obligation and guilt, coined by Susan Forward and Donna Frazier in Emotional Blackmail.

Horror Facts with Cath: the Wolf Man makeup chair and Jake Gyllenhaal's godmother.

ALL EIGHT PARTS ARE ON THE FEED

Search Terror Talk plus SHRINK CHAT for: No Man of God; Midsommar; the Hillside Strangler; Ann Rule; Janice Ott; Kimberly Leach; Carole Ann Boone; and Georgann Hawkins.

Got a haunted story of your own? Send it to [email protected] and we may read it on the show.

Two licensed therapists, one forensic psychologist, one clinical LMFT, take apart the minds behind the crimes.

🎧 LISTEN TO THE FULL PODCAST APPLE PODCASTS: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/terror-talk-true-crime-serial-killers-and-horror/id1435529687

SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/07JEm5Qm7cohukkEUOYt7P

PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/cw/terrortalk

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/terrortalkpodcast/

📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/newterrortalkpodcast

🎵 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dark.psychology.girls?_r=18_t=ZT-99iWlxm05in

🎶 Music by Mannequin Uprising

We end our Scream franchise discussion with the new Scream 5 and Scream 3 & 4. Plus our horror books and watches including Where the Dead Go To Die, Dexter: New Blood, Finale, Super Hot and The Return, plus Horror Facts with Cath Trivia.

Music by Mannequin Uprising Website: https://www.terrortalkpodcast.com Community Membership: https://www.patreon.com/terrortalk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/terrortalkpodcast/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/TalkTerror/

Cathy and Shannon discuss the true crime documentary City of Angels, City of Death as well as true crime news, what the hell segment and other true crime documentaries including The Case of: Casey Anthony, The Murders at Starved Rock, Crimes Scene: The Times Square Killer.

Music by Mannequin Uprising Website: https://www.terrortalkpodcast.com Community Membership: https://www.patreon.com/terrortalk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/terrortalkpodcast/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/TalkTerror/