We’ve been speaking to perhaps the most prominent anti DEI MAGA activist, Christopher Rufo. He’s widely credited for convincing Donald Trump to dismantle Diversity, Equity and Inclusion (DEI) programmes within the government, and led the campaign which saw Harvard President Claudine Gay resign from her post in 2024.

He's a controversial figure who has who has spearheaded the right-wing movement against what he describes as "gender ideology" and "woke" institutional policies. He’s also concerned about the future direction of the movement he helped to create and worries about splits within MAGA that have seen influencers like Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens split with Donald Trump.

In today’s podcast, Justin and Rufo sit down to discuss how successful he thinks the second Trump administration has been, and why Richard Nixon is enjoying a revival among Gen Z Republicans.

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This episode was made by George Dabby and Alix Pickles. The technical producer was Rohan Madison. The series producer is Purvee Pattni. The senior news editor is Sam Bonham.

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