Ep. 236 | In The Call of the Cosmos, cosmologist and astronomer Stephan Martin brings a new and revelatory perspective into play on Deep Transformation, sharing his profound knowledge of the evolving cosmos and its relationship with consciousness. To cover the immensity of the mystery we are involved in, Steve explains, we need to look at both the inner dimension—consciousness—and the outer mystery, the cosmos. Steve does a remarkable job of explaining the psychological, spiritual, and ethical implications of living in an evolving universe, and draws fascinating parallels between cosmic evolution and human evolution, and the manifestation of being and cosmos. Steve teaches that we can expand the concept of self from separate, small self to ecological self to planetary self, and beyond—to cosmic self.

Steve says the fundamental essence of the universe is creativity, and invites us to heed the call of the cosmos and align ourselves with cosmic creativity by expressing the whole through our individual modes of being. “What is the causal cosmic chain that leads to our allurement to do a certain thing?” he asks, adding, “13.8 billion years of cosmic evolution have led to this moment.” The universe is participatory, Steve has discovered, and we live in a relational reality. Put on your paradigm shifting hat for this lively, wise, and impassioned conversation. Your relationship with the cosmos will be illuminated for sure, and quite possibly entirely transformed. Steve is also a gifted author; you can explore more in his books Cosmic Conversations, This Playful Universe, Becoming the Change, and soon, Traveling in the Shadow of the Moon. Recorded August 21, 2025.

“If you look at the universe through telescopes, you see stars and galaxies… However, if you engage in a relationship with the universe through, say, devotional or contemplative practices, you discover other qualities.”

Topics & Time Stamps

• Introducing astronomer & cosmologist Stephan Martin, author of Cosmic Conversations and This Playful Universe (00:46)
• The relationship between cosmos and consciousness (03:34)
• What does it mean to be part of an evolving, dynamic universe? (05:09)
• Einstein’s “greatest blunder” (08:18)
• The emergence of complexity theory & the idea of the self-determining universe (09:48)
• Thomas Berry’s 1st universal dynamic: differentiation; every being is a unique mode of the universe (14:29)
• Is consciousness an emergent part of the universe? Thomas Berry’s 2nd dynamic: subjectivity (18:07)
• The universe is participatory (22:06)
• What quantum theory brings crashing down is the idea of a static universe; reality is relational (26:39)
• Cosmic leadership: the intuitive callings we feel… do they come from the universe? (30:10)
• The earth is what’s in charge here and, by extension, the cosmos is what’s in charge (31:54)
• What is the causal cosmic chain that leads to a creative impulse? (33:15)
• Expanding the concept of self to a cosmic dimension (34:43)
• The fundamental essence of the universe is creativity; the cosmic imperative is aligning with that (38:32)
• Are ethics a mind-made construction, or are they tied with something deeper? Thomas Berry’s third dynamic: the principle of communion (42:46)
• The concept of ego is Newtonian static cosmology internalized (51:10)
• The manifestation of being parallels the manifestation of the cosmos (53:12)
• Are we living in a multiverse? (57:34)
• What does the universe desire? (01:01:32)
• Are we living in an AI simulation? Is our universe a hologram? (01:05:07)
• Is there life on other planets? What types of “life” haven’t we considered yet? (01:11:34)
• Looking for other humans to talk to: the era of cosmic loneliness (01:15:52)
• What is the current edge for cosmologists? (01:20:16)
• Stephan’s new books: Becoming the Change with Carol Kilby & Traveling in the Shadow of the Moon (available for pre-order) (01:26:32)

Resources & References

• Stephan Martin, director of the Deeptime Leadership Program
• Stephan Martin, Cosmic Conversations: Dialogues on the Nature of the Universe and the Search for Reality and This Playful Universe (audiobook narrated by Michael Toms)
• Stephen Martin & Carol Kilby, Becoming the Change: Evolutionary Rituals and Practices for Everyday Emergence
• Stephan Martin, Traveling in the Shadow of the Moon: A Deep Cosmology Journey in Baja (available for pre-order)
• Edwin Hubbell and the discovery of the Andromeda Galaxy
• Georges Lemaître, first physicist to argue the recession of galaxies is evidence of an expanding universe, who also made the first formulation of the Big Bang theory
• Erich Jantsch, The Self-Organizing Universe, The Evolutionary Vision
• Thomas Berry, theologian and evolutionary thinker, The Great Work: Our Way into the Future
• Panpsychism
• A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series (Deep Transformation podcast series)
• Ken Wilber introduced Integral Methodological Pluralism in his book Integral Spirituality
• Carlo Rovelli, Helgoland: Making Sense of the Quantum Revolution
• The Copenhagen interpretation
• Brian Swimme, co-founder of the Center for the Story of the Universe
• Matthew Fox, Creativity: Where the Divine and Human Meet
• A. H. Almaas’ Diamond Approach
• Cosmological constant
• David Chalmers, Reality+: Virtual Worlds and the Problems of Philosophy
• Enrico Fermi’s paradox

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Stephan Martin is an astronomer, author, educator, and cosmic guide who has spent more than thirty-five years exploring how scientific discovery, spiritual inquiry, and human experience can deepen our relationship with the evolving universe. Through his work with the Deeptime Network, along with workshops, retreats, lectures, and contemplative stargazing experiences, he helps people bring the wisdom of the cosmos into everyday life. He is the author of Cosmic Conversations and Living a Cosmic Life, co-author of Becoming the Change (with Carol Kilby), and author of the forthcoming Traveling in the Shadow of the Moon (January 2027). His work invites people to align their lives with the creative unfolding of the cosmos and participate more consciously in our shared evolutionary journey. www.cosmicconversations.org and dtnetwork.org.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell