Michelle Dale, creator of Virtual Miss Friday, emphasizes the importance of mindset in business success. Specializing in digital product sales, she works with 6- and 7-figure earners, helping them scale up using virtual assistants.

On the Expat Money Show, Michelle and Mikkel Thorup explore the steps to becoming a successful location-independent entrepreneur, highlighting why mindset is crucial.

 

WHAT WE DISCUSSED IN THIS INTERVIEW

Michelle talks about her love for Egypt, its people, culture, and smells.

Despite traveling and living in various countries, Egypt is always considered home by her family.

Her story is about adversity, perseverance, and overcoming boundaries.

The Expat Money Show has featured many strong female travelers like Nydia Monarrez, Trish Leto, and Mindy Stern.

Michelle Dale joins this lineup as a successful female expat entrepreneur.

The goal is to inspire other females to travel, build businesses abroad, and follow their dreams.

Michelle started her journey at 24 with nothing and built a successful mentoring program while travelling, getting married, and having children.

The interview highlights her living the life of her dreams and serves as an inspiration.

 

www.VirtualMissFriday.com

[email protected]

 

If you’d been receiving the EMS Pulse newsletter and the weekly Expat Sunday Times, you would have already read the basics of today's story! Sign up now, and you’ll also receive my FREE special report, “Plan B Residencies and Instant Citizenships.”

 

Finally, On The Expat Money Show, I aim to bring in the best Entrepreneurs from around the globe who are doing some really incredible things. Michelle Dale and Virtual Miss Friday show us that all is possible with the drive and determination one can get from travelling the world!

 

Mentioned in this episode:

TICKETS NOW ON SALE

Join us March 14-15th, 2025, live in Panama City for the Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference. Take your Plan-B to the next level; tickets are limited.

Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference

TICKETS NOW ON SALE

Join us March 14-15th, 2025, live in Panama City for the Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference. Take your Plan-B to the next level; tickets are limited.

Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference

Tim Leffel, an award-winning travel writer and author of several travel books, including, Travel Writing 2.0: Earning Money From Your Travels in the New Media Landscape, and, A Better Life for Half the Price: How to prosper on less money in the cheapest places to live.

Join us on The Expat Money Show to talk about travel writing and life as an Expat Entrepreneur and to give advice to new travel bloggers and travel writers in the industry.

 

Tim's beginnings in travel writing predate the internet era.

Discusses challenges of early entrepreneurship in travel writing.

Importance of passion and focus in career longevity.

Insights on writing fundamentals and the evolving role of SEO.

Frequency tips for writing and posting blog content.

Reveals one destination Tim and his family haven't visited yet.

Highlights personal experiences living abroad as an expat.

Many leave home seeking freedom and new opportunities.

Tim shares insights on taxation and personal freedom issues.

Tim and family split time between Mexico and Florida.

Benefits and challenges of expat life discussed.

Achieving life goals and maintaining personal freedom abroad.

TimLeffel.com

Twitter: @timleffel

 

If you’d been receiving the EMS Pulse newsletter and the weekly Expat Sunday Times, you would have already read the basics of today's story! Sign up now, and you’ll also receive my FREE special report, “Plan B Residencies and Instant Citizenships.”

 

CONCLUSION

I loved this interview with Tim Leffel because he is living the life of his dreams. He set out to do something he loved and has become an expert in his field. For an hour we talk about how he has made his dream a reality as an expat entrepreneur, and what you can do to follow in a similar path, and as one of my mentors always says, find someone who is having success doing what you want to do and model them...

On The Expat Money Show, I aim to bring in the best expat entrepreneurs from around the globe who are doing some really incredible things. Tim Leffel shows us that patience is a virtue and that if you always do the very best you can do and stick to a plan you can have a truly wonderful life!

 

Mentioned in this episode:

TICKETS NOW ON SALE

Join us March 14-15th, 2025, live in Panama City for the Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference. Take your Plan-B to the next level; tickets are limited.

Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference

TICKETS NOW ON SALE

Join us March 14-15th, 2025, live in Panama City for the Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference. Take your Plan-B to the next level; tickets are limited.

Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference

David McKeegan and Mikkel Thorup talk in detail about what it takes to be an expat entrepreneur. How a young couples life looks like starting in NY City as students, moving to Barcelona Spain for an MBA program, starting their careers in Finance in London, England and realizing that they just didn’t want to raise a family with both parents working 12 hour days and how could they achieve their dream life.

.

David McKeegan is a brilliant marketer. You have to be to build a company that is successful and allows you and your family to move and live in other countries around the world. David talks about best marketing practices of outsourcing and what not to outsource. And so much more!

What’s hot for Expat communities

What pushing through looks like

Being resilient

Overcoming adversity

Travel vision for the future and what that looks like

How to build a really really successful business

 

BOOKS WE DISCUSS:

The End of Jobs: Money, Meaning and Freedom without the 9-to-5 By Taylor Pearson

The Millionaire Fast Lane: Crack the Code to Wealth and Live Rich for a Life Time  By MJ DeMarco

4 Hour Work Week By Tim Ferris

Topgrading By Bradford D. Smart, PhD

Beyond the E-Myth: The Evolution of an Enterprise: From a Company of One to a Company of 1,000!   By Michael E Gerber

 

HOW TO FIND DAVID'S WORK:

https://www.GreenBackTaxServices.com

 

If you’d been receiving the EMS Pulse newsletter and the weekly Expat Sunday Times, you would have already read the basics of today's story! Sign up now, and you’ll also receive my FREE special report, “Plan B Residencies and Instant Citizenships.”

 

On The Expat Money Show, I aim to bring in the best Entrepreneurs from around the globe who are doing some really incredible things. David McKeegan has lived a life that most entrepreneurs strive for. David and Carrie and their 3 boys live life as an adventure! And isn’t that really what we all strive for.

It's all about living life to the fullest, following your dreams, meeting new people and spending time with your spouse and children. For me this certainly is the case, and if you want a glimpse into the life of another expat entrepreneur who has created his dream life, listen to this episode.

 

Mentioned in this episode:

TICKETS NOW ON SALE

Join us March 14-15th, 2025, live in Panama City for the Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference. Take your Plan-B to the next level; tickets are limited.

Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference

TICKETS NOW ON SALE

Join us March 14-15th, 2025, live in Panama City for the Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference. Take your Plan-B to the next level; tickets are limited.

Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference

James Ellsmoor, a Forbes 30 Under 30 entrepreneur, specializes in renewable energy and entrepreneurship in small island nations. He explores unique challenges and solutions for sustainable development across diverse regions like Jamaica, emphasizing local entrepreneurship's pivotal role in global influence and sustainability.

 

How important is renewable energy to these small island nations, and for all of us for that matter

What are smart grids?

How can we use new technology?

New-style greenhouses that withstand hurricanes

The disappearance of small islands in the South Pacific and the difference between an Atoll and an island

What are the parallels, similarities and economy between the Caribbean the South Pacific?

 

‘The Happy Isles of Oceania: Paddling The Pacific’ by Paul Theroux

‘Krik? Krak!’ by Edwidge Danticat

 

HOW TO FIND JAMES'S WORK:

Twitter.com/jellsmoor

www.bit.ly/islandinnovation

 

If you’d been receiving the EMS Pulse newsletter and the weekly Expat Sunday Times, you would have already read the basics of today's story! Sign up now, and you’ll also receive my FREE special report, “Plan B Residencies and Instant Citizenships.”

 

On The Expat Money Show, I aim to bring in the best Entrepreneurs from around the globe who are doing some really incredible things. James Ellsmoor is no exception.  His fascination with the island communities will play out well in the long run, make sure you listen in to find out what’s being done to save these small island nations.  Don’t let this episode slip through your hands. Listen and listen. Share this podcast with your colleagues! They will love you forever!

 

Mentioned in this episode:

TICKETS NOW ON SALE

Join us March 14-15th, 2025, live in Panama City for the Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference. Take your Plan-B to the next level; tickets are limited.

Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference

TICKETS NOW ON SALE

Join us March 14-15th, 2025, live in Panama City for the Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference. Take your Plan-B to the next level; tickets are limited.

Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference

Greg Rollett, an Emmy Award-winning producer and marketing expert, shares his insights on effective video marketing. He emphasizes the importance of consistent content creation and repurposing to maximize impact and engagement across platforms like 'Ambitious Life' and 'Ambitious Adventures.'

.

Find out what discoverability is

Why Social Proof is so vitally important

What shooting a vertical video can do for your platform

How to add value to your videos

What should you spend $$ on to create an outstanding video

How to shine through all the other crap that’s out there

How to outperform EVERYONE in your genre

Tempo          Pitch       Cadence

Building your network

As if that’s not enough, we discuss OmniPresence, and if you listen to what Greg and I talk about, you’ll understand this a whole lot better.

 

HOW TO FIND GREG'S WORK:

Website: www.ambitioustv.com , www.ambitious.com

Instagram: @gregrollett

 

If you’d been receiving the EMS Pulse newsletter and the weekly Expat Sunday Times, you would have already read the basics of today's story! Sign up now, and you’ll also receive my FREE special report, “Plan B Residencies and Instant Citizenships.”

 

On The Expat Money Show, I aim to bring in the best Entrepreneurs from around the globe who are doing some really incredible things. Greg Rollett is the master of Video Marketing. End. of. Story. I hope you get as much value from this Podcast Episode as I did… and if you would like to stay up to date with all new content that comes out at The Expat Money Show make sure you sign up for our Newsletter below. Some of my best stuff comes out by email and I don’t want you to miss it!

 

Mentioned in this episode:

TICKETS NOW ON SALE

Join us March 14-15th, 2025, live in Panama City for the Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference. Take your Plan-B to the next level; tickets are limited.

Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference

TICKETS NOW ON SALE

Join us March 14-15th, 2025, live in Panama City for the Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference. Take your Plan-B to the next level; tickets are limited.

Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference

Jim Cockrum, a renowned internet marketer and author of "The Silent Sales Machine," joins The Expat Money Show. With partners Nathan Bailey and Brett Bartlett, he oversees a $25 million annual sales empire on Amazon. Despite his success, Jim remains humble and accessible, engaging a large community through his Facebook group and sharing insights on internet marketing.

 

Learn what three concepts are needed to totally rock as a human being

Take away solutions for life

Top books as suggested reading

What Jim looks for when hiring a new employee

How important is getting your MBA? (his answer for this is hilarious)

What does a CEO of over 150 employees and $25 Million a year do?

How DO you create an 8 figure product line on Amazon?

 

HOW TO FIND JIM'S WORK:

Website: www.JimCockrum.com

Podcast: SilentJim.com

Author: Proven Audience Formula

Suggested reading: Weapons of Mass Instruction by John Gatto

 

If you’d been receiving the EMS Pulse newsletter and the weekly Expat Sunday Times, you would have already read the basics of today's story! Sign up now, and you’ll also receive my FREE special report, “Plan B Residencies and Instant Citizenships.”

 

On The Expat Money Show, I aim to bring in the best Entrepreneurs from around the globe who are doing some really incredible things. Jim Cockrum and his team are one of the very best Internet Marketers with Amazon on the planet! What we learn from Jim’s life and business approach is extraordinary! Jim also shares his Best Advice as a business owner. This alone can save you a ton of money and a ton of time!

 

Mentioned in this episode:

Margaritaville Investment Webinar - Jan 11.2025

Special Presentation Alert! Hey guys, Mikkel Here!

If you’re looking to start the year off right, let me tell, I have THE PERFECT opportunity for you!

You’re invited to join me for a special presentation that will take us to Playa Caracol, one of Panama’s most sought-after beachfront destinations.... The very same beach where I personally own a vacation home, and let me tell you, I absolutely love spending time here with my family - it's the perfect escape from my busy life in Panama City and an even better investment destination for the adventurous offshore investors amongst us!

This particular special presentation is available exclusively for the Expat Money community and isn’t available anywhere else… in my world, we call this an off-market deal.

I will share a project developed by the internationally renowned resort chain; Margaritaville. The region is rapidly expanding and is poised to become Panama’s next top vacation hotspot… trust me, you DO NOT want to miss out.

In this exclusive webinar, I’ll walk you through the massive upside potential of investing in this growing region and will teach you how you can get in early on this prime beachfront opportunity before the prices soar.

Even if you aren’t in the market to invest, this is a must-attend event for everyone, who like me, walks the unconventional path and wants to continually expand your knowledge base on international investments.

Don’t miss out. See you January 11th at 9am Eastern. That’s this coming Saturday at 9am Eastern, January 11th, 2025.

To register, go to https://expatmoney.com/webinar

Webinars - Expat Money

Join Us For Upcoming Live Webinars

Every month, we offer exciting new webinars for our community. Topics include how to use retirement accounts to buy real estate overseas, how to get a second passport in Latin America, why you should sell your stock portfolio and move your money offshore, how to buy a beachfront rental property in Brazil for less than $100k, or apartments in Paraguay for $60k.

If you want to join us for FREE for these presentations with live Q&A, insider secrets, and exclusive opportunities with my professional network of experts, then sign up today.

Webinars - Expat Money

Today's guest on The Expat Money Show is Nydia Monarrez, a top-rated Voice Over Talent and Hispanic Marketer. She has worked with brands like McDonald's and Toyota, helping businesses dominate the Hispanic market.

Nydia emphasizes the importance of understanding Latin American culture for effective marketing and shares key insights on how to engage this booming market.

 

Importance of marketing to Latinos in the USA from countries like Mexico, Colombia, Chile, and other Latin American nations.

Nydia Monarrez details how to prepare your company for this booming market.

Early realization: Interpreters hired to translate for major US companies missed the cultural nuances of Latin American people.

Lack of cultural understanding hindered dominance in the Hispanic market, which grew roughly 50% from 2010 to 2015.

Nydia explains the key cultural factors (hot buttons) for Hispanic people and how to incorporate them into your marketing.

 

HOW TO FIND NYDIA'S WORK:

Website: https://www.NydiaMonarrez.com/hispanic-market-strategies/

Email: [email protected]

 

If you’d been receiving the EMS Pulse newsletter and the weekly Expat Sunday Times, you would have already read the basics of today's story! Sign up now, and you’ll also receive my FREE special report, “Plan B Residencies and Instant Citizenships.”

 

On The Expat Money Show, I aim to bring in the best Entrepreneurs from around the globe who are doing some really incredible things. It was an amazing and exciting experience to chat with Nydia and I found the idea of how to get your business ready to dominate in the Hispanic market fascinating.

If you want to have a huge advantage over competitors, this is a great way to do it!

 

Mentioned in this episode:

Join Us For Upcoming Live Webinars

Every month, we offer exciting new webinars for our community. Topics include how to use retirement accounts to buy real estate overseas, how to get a second passport in Latin America, why you should sell your stock portfolio and move your money offshore, how to buy a beachfront rental property in Brazil for less than $100k, or apartments in Paraguay for $60k.

If you want to join us for FREE for these presentations with live Q&A, insider secrets, and exclusive opportunities with my professional network of experts, then sign up today.

Webinars - Expat Money

Margaritaville Investment Webinar - Jan 11.2025

Special Presentation Alert! Hey guys, Mikkel Here!

If you’re looking to start the year off right, let me tell, I have THE PERFECT opportunity for you!

You’re invited to join me for a special presentation that will take us to Playa Caracol, one of Panama’s most sought-after beachfront destinations.... The very same beach where I personally own a vacation home, and let me tell you, I absolutely love spending time here with my family - it's the perfect escape from my busy life in Panama City and an even better investment destination for the adventurous offshore investors amongst us!

This particular special presentation is available exclusively for the Expat Money community and isn’t available anywhere else… in my world, we call this an off-market deal.

I will share a project developed by the internationally renowned resort chain; Margaritaville. The region is rapidly expanding and is poised to become Panama’s next top vacation hotspot… trust me, you DO NOT want to miss out.

In this exclusive webinar, I’ll walk you through the massive upside potential of investing in this growing region and will teach you how you can get in early on this prime beachfront opportunity before the prices soar.

Even if you aren’t in the market to invest, this is a must-attend event for everyone, who like me, walks the unconventional path and wants to continually expand your knowledge base on international investments.

Don’t miss out. See you January 11th at 9am Eastern. That’s this coming Saturday at 9am Eastern, January 11th, 2025.

To register, go to https://expatmoney.com/webinar

Webinars - Expat Money

Today's returning guest on The Expat Money Show is Stephan Spencer, and he's here to talk to us about the 3 pillars of SEO (along with a dozen other awesome concepts!)

.

What ARE the 3 pillars of SEO?

And can you Break down the 3 pillars of SEO?

Explain Keywords for me?

What can I do to rank higher on Google?

What is ‘Black Hat’ and ‘White Hat’?

Best resources for SEO

How do I hire someone I can trust to do my SEO?

How long should it take for a website to rank #1 on Google?

And on and on...

 

HOW TO FIND SPENCER'S WORK:

Website: MarketingSpeak.com/expat

Email: [email protected]

 

The Art of SEO

Google Power Search

Social ECommerce: Increasing Sales & Extending Brand Reach

If you’d been receiving the EMS Pulse newsletter and the weekly Expat Sunday Times, you would have already read the basics of today's story! Sign up now, and you’ll also receive my FREE special report, “Plan B Residencies and Instant Citizenships.”

 

CONCLUSION

On The Expat Money Show, I bring top entrepreneurs from around the globe, like Stephan Spencer, the world's #1 SEO marketer. His compelling life story and expertise in SEO are truly inspiring. Many listeners enjoyed the unique final question I asked each guest, which often brought out great reactions. Stephan returns to discuss the 3 Pillars of SEO, sharing valuable insights and stories. For updates and exclusive content, sign up for our newsletter.

 

Mentioned in this episode:

TICKETS NOW ON SALE

Join us March 14-15th, 2025, live in Panama City for the Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference. Take your Plan-B to the next level; tickets are limited.

Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference

Join Us For Upcoming Live Webinars

Every month, we offer exciting new webinars for our community. Topics include how to use retirement accounts to buy real estate overseas, how to get a second passport in Latin America, why you should sell your stock portfolio and move your money offshore, how to buy a beachfront rental property in Brazil for less than $100k, or apartments in Paraguay for $60k.

If you want to join us for FREE for these presentations with live Q&A, insider secrets, and exclusive opportunities with my professional network of experts, then sign up today.

Webinars - Expat Money

TICKETS NOW ON SALE

Join us March 14-15th, 2025, live in Panama City for the Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference. Take your Plan-B to the next level; tickets are limited.

Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference

Today's guest on The Expat Money Show is Stephan Spencer. He is one of the best SEO experts in the world and a self-proclaimed ‘seminar junkie’. Over the past 20+ years, Stephan has spoken on more than 100 stages worldwide about SEO.

 

WHAT WE DISCUSSED IN THIS INTERVIEW

Stephan Spencer on The Expat Money Show shares insights on achieving excellence in life, business, health, and family through spiritual connection.

He discusses his journey from humble beginnings to becoming a successful entrepreneur, speaker, and coach, highlighting how spiritual connection has brought great wealth and fulfillment.

Stephan offers listeners his SEO Bull S#!t Detector and SEO Hiring Blueprint for free at MarketingSpeak.com/expat.

Key topics include: being the best version of yourself, stem cell therapy, up-leveling life and soul, longevity escape velocity, and his journey to becoming one of the world's top SEO experts.

The episode also touches on living abroad with family, featuring related episodes like EP 078 with Brandon Pearce on moving to Mexico and Bali, and EP 043 with Sam McRoberts on internationalizing your life and protecting your wealth.

 

Website: MarketingSpeak.com/expat

Email: [email protected]

When you have finished listening to this episode with Stephan Spencer, please go directly to Part 2 of this interview. We just needed more time with Stephan, so here is Part 2: Stephan Spencer: Search Engine Optimization Expert Breaks Down the 3 Pillars of SEO

 

If you’d been receiving the EMS Pulse newsletter and the weekly Expat Sunday Times, you would have already read the basics of today's story! Sign up now, and you’ll also receive my FREE special report, “Plan B Residencies and Instant Citizenships.”

 

I loved this episode with Stephan Spencer. We talked about so many things, it was crazy. When the conversation began we just clicked and I know you'll be able to hear that straight away.

Funnily enough, we never did get into SEO though, or Marketing, or business at all for that matter... we really just talked about life, higher consciousness, and being the best person you can be...

So at the end of my hour with Stephan, I boldly asked him back on to the show so we could double down and focus solely on SEO for a complete episode.

And Stephan said, "of course let's do it!" So we have broken Stephans interview into two parts, we discussed the concepts of success first, then in our next interview we’ll chat about the magic of SEO, or as Stephan calls it, SCIENCE!!

I hope you get as much value from this Podcast Episode as I did… and if you would like to stay up to date with all new content that comes out at The Expat Money Show make sure you sign up for our Newsletter below. Some of my best stuff comes out by email and I don’t want you to miss it!

 

Mentioned in this episode:

TICKETS NOW ON SALE

Join us March 14-15th, 2025, live in Panama City for the Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference. Take your Plan-B to the next level; tickets are limited.

Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference

TICKETS NOW ON SALE

Join us March 14-15th, 2025, live in Panama City for the Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference. Take your Plan-B to the next level; tickets are limited.

Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference

Join Us For Upcoming Live Webinars

Every month, we offer exciting new webinars for our community. Topics include how to use retirement accounts to buy real estate overseas, how to get a second passport in Latin America, why you should sell your stock portfolio and move your money offshore, how to buy a beachfront rental property in Brazil for less than $100k, or apartments in Paraguay for $60k.

If you want to join us for FREE for these presentations with live Q&A, insider secrets, and exclusive opportunities with my professional network of experts, then sign up today.

Webinars - Expat Money

This is a momentous occasion for the Expat Money Show. Episode 25! Pretty impressive, really! 24 guests and 24 amazing stories have been recorded, listened to, and downloaded from all over the world. Mikkel wanted to celebrate this achievement and record his story, his adversities, and his love of travel and entrepreneurship.

 

What Mikkel Thorup has been up to lately

What amazing books he has read in the past few weeks

His upcoming podcast with Stephan Spencer, the #1 SEO expert in the world

Why he is so excited for June and July

Courses, Books and Projects for The Expat Money Show

Facebook Live with Daniel Mac Sweeney, Gabe Lara from Superconference GKIC

Daily Vlogs

And so much more!

 

Tao Te Ching written 500 BC by Lao Tzu interpreted by Steven Mitchell

Mindset: The New Psychology of Success - Carol S. Dweck

Outliers - Malcolm Gladwell

The Prophet - Kahlil Gibran

The Fountainhead & Atlas Shrugged - Ayn Rand

 

If you’d been receiving the EMS Pulse newsletter and the weekly Expat Sunday Times, you would have already read the basics of today's story! Sign up now, and you’ll also receive my FREE special report, “Plan B Residencies and Instant Citizenships.”

 

CONCLUSION

Make Sure to listen to the Complete Episode to understand the mind of Mikkel Thorup himself and to celebrate Episode 25!!!

Make sure to comment below with your thoughts on books you’ve read that have helped change your life, countries you’ve visited, what you learned from your visit, and anything you really want to discuss here on the Expat Money Show!

 

Mentioned in this episode:

TICKETS NOW ON SALE

Join us March 14-15th, 2025, live in Panama City for the Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference. Take your Plan-B to the next level; tickets are limited.

Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference

Join Us For Upcoming Live Webinars

Every month, we offer exciting new webinars for our community. Topics include how to use retirement accounts to buy real estate overseas, how to get a second passport in Latin America, why you should sell your stock portfolio and move your money offshore, how to buy a beachfront rental property in Brazil for less than $100k, or apartments in Paraguay for $60k.

If you want to join us for FREE for these presentations with live Q&A, insider secrets, and exclusive opportunities with my professional network of experts, then sign up today.

Webinars - Expat Money

TICKETS NOW ON SALE

Join us March 14-15th, 2025, live in Panama City for the Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference. Take your Plan-B to the next level; tickets are limited.

Wealth, Freedom & Passports Conference