The Flip

Today's guest is Kiaan Pillay, the Co-founder and CEO of Stitch. My conversation with Kiaan comes on the heels of their recent fundraising announcement, a $25 million Series A extension led by the global fintech fund Ribbit Capital, which brings their total funding raised up over $50 million since the launch of the company in 2019.

In this episode, we talk to Kiaan about how they've gotten here, the intangibles of company building, their vision for the next generation of payments, and much more.

00:00 - Intro
03:29 - Stitch's $25 million Series A extension
05:51 - Why take money from Ribbit Capital?
07:00 - Stitch's growth
09:03 - Building products for enterprise
11:38 - A developer-centric org
13:23 - What products has Stitch built?
15:50 - Building a "next-generation" PSP
19:06 - Specialization vs. building the full stack
22:36 - How deep is the South African market?
29:48 - Stitch's company culture as a reflection of Kiaan
32:28 - How Stitch has recruited so well
35:20 - The perception of startups and equity in South Africa
37:15 - How Kiaan hired Stitch's president
39:26 - Investing in product and engineering talent
42:17 - Kiaan's evolution as a startup founder to CEO of a 70-person company
44:30 - The future for Stitch and fintech in Africa

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Today's guest is Olugbenga Agboola, better known as the one and only GB - the Co-founder and CEO of Flutterwave. 

It's been a trying last year or so for Flutterwave with issues of fraud, allegations of impropriety inside the company, regulatory hurdles, and the general challenges of scaling a fintech in a tough operating environment.

Yet through it all, Flutterwave has "technology reach" in 34 countries, they've continued to ship new products beyond their core payments technology, including their rebranded remittance product Send App, and there are rumors swirling about the near-term timeline of their planned IPO.

In this episode, we'll hear from GB about many of his recent lessons, his perspectives on product and expansion strategy, and we'll ask many of the questions we've been wanting to hear from him about, including the big one about Flutterwave's IPO.

00:00 - Intro
03:13 - When is Flutterwave going public?
04:56 - What about the allegations?
09:24 - Sharing more for the benefit of the ecosystem
11:17 - Growth and expansion
16:13 - Did Flutterwave grow too fast?
21:09 - Fundraising and the African growth story
27:11 - GB's angel investing activities
30:29 - Lessons from GB's banking and big tech background
32:08 - Why did GB start Flutterwave in the first place?
33:49 - Are payments still broken?
35:55 - The vision for the future
38:02 - Final words of wisdom

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The future of work in the African context is going to be a lot of different things. It mimics the nature of work itself for many individuals on the continent. They're taking this portfolio approach to work. Even in more "developed markets" we're seeing work become less formal and more flexible, as work becomes unbundled from employment. And this evolution of work itself provides a whole set of new challenges and opportunities. 

So this episode is a retrospective on the entire season, in which we explore more of these questions about the future of work in this context. And joining The Flip's Justin Norman and Kandua's Sayo Folawiyo for this conversation is friend of The Flip, Chris Maclay, the Program Director for the Jobtech Alliance at Mercy Corps.

00:00 - Intro.
04:30 - Portfolio of work, earnings, stability, growth.
08:40 - Who gets to decide if a job is good or bad?
15:48 - Training, enablement, and platforms.
19:48 - The HustleOS and micro-franchising.
24:28 - The Future of Work is a portfolio of work.
29:54- Digital services for export.
32:57- Market sizing platform-enabled digital work.
41:39 - Should there have been an episode called The Future of Work is Universal Basic Income?

This season of The Flip is sponsored by MFS Africa.

There is a perception that there's a tech talent shortage in the African tech ecosystem, and that it's hard to find high-quality local talent.

There has been lot of conversation around the impact and role of Big Tech in the equation, which many felt were also culprits in driving up the price of talent in local marketplaces. In an environment of talent scarcity, there's been an upward pressure on salaries for talent of a certain caliber - which Big Tech can more readily afford compared to startups.

And while the supply-demand equation may be changing a bit in the context of recent market downturns and layoffs, this talent question is an important one for the continued development of the tech ecosystem.

So while we hear a lot from startups and founders in this episode, we're going to get a different perspective from the Big Tech companies themselves.

00:00 - Intro, there is a perceived talent scarcity problem in the African tech ecosystem.
04:37 - We start with Google, and their Managing Director for Sub-Saharan Africa, Nitin Gajria.
05:38 - Google is investing $1 billion in Africa over 5 years.
08:16 - Catherine Muraga is the Managing Director of the Microsoft Africa Development Centre in Nairobi.
11:49 - Talent scarcity and compensation.
13:59 - The competition for talent is global.

This season of The Flip is sponsored by MFS Africa.

Follow The Flip on Twitter @theflipafrica and subscribe to our newsletter The Flip Notes at https://theflip.africa/newsletter.

We're dropping one more episode of our new show, crypto@scale, on The Flip's feed today. In this episode, we interview our first guests on what might be Africa's killer crypto app, stablecoins. According to data from Coinmetrics, cumulative Stablecoin volumes are at a $9 trillion annualized run rate, exceeding the volumes of all major card networks, except for Visa. Across the African continent, stablecoins are finding meaningful uptake, particularly in markets with low USD liquidity, or countries experiencing currency devaluation.

In today's episode, we're going to explore stablecoins in two parts. First, a global perspective with Joao Reginatto, the VP of Product at Circle, which is the company behind the USDC stablecoin. Second, a local perspective with Ngozi Dozie, Co-Founder of the African digital bank, Carbon.

This episode of crypto@scale is sponsored by Ripple. Across Africa, Ripple is partnering with local financial institutions and fintechs to bring the benefits of better cross-border remittances to the region. To learn more and get in contact with the Ripple team, head over to ripple.com.

00:00 - Intro. Stablecoins are the best thing since sliced bread, according to Ngozi Dozie.
02:23 - Introducing Joao Reginatto, VP, Product at Circle and product lead for USDC.
02:48 - What is a stablecoins?
04:21 - Why stablecoins?
13:33 - Not all stablecoins are equal. USDC is pegged 1:1 to the Dollar.
24:22 - What else is Circle focused on to broaden the adoption of USDC?
28:30 - Regulation.
32:10 - What's next for stablecoins?
36:25 - Joao's recommendations.
37:44 - Explooring stablecoins in the African context, with Carbon's Ngozi Dozie.
40:48 - Use cases: access to foreign exchange, hedge against devaluation.
44:05 - Carbon's FX and borrowing woes.
48:22 - Stablecoins as a platform.
52:27 - Challenges to stablecoin adoption.
1:00:06 - Ngozi is scared of the risk of capital flight.
1:03:46 - Ngozi's recommendations.

Follow us on twitter @cryptoatscale.

We interrupt this season on the future of work to drop a special episode today in The Flip’s feed. Introducing crypto@scale, a new show from The Flip, co-hosted by MFS Africa's Head of Crypto, Gwera Kiwana, and The Flip's Justin Norman.

crypto@scale is a pragmatic and hopefully hype-free exploration of the crypto ecosystem across the African continent.

If you enjoy this episode, please be sure to subscribe on your favorite podcast app or YouTube by searching for crypto@scale. We'll be dropping one more episode later this week and new episodes every other week thereafter.

Today's episode is a conversation recorded live from Nairobi last month. In this conversation, we share our perspectives on the sector, the use cases we find the most intriguing, the challenges we find most pressing, why we're launching a crypto show in the middle of a bear market, and what you can expect from us and this show.

For more from crypto@scale, follow us on Twitter @cryptoatscale.

00:00 - Intro
02:16 - Why are we launching this show
3:51 - The African market conditions and context for crypto's adoption
6:47 - Crypto use cases: stablecoins
10:36 - Regulation, centralization, and CBDCs
14:16 - DeFi and real-world assets
17:36 - Interoperability
19:26 - User experience and crypto education
22:17 - The DeFi Mullet
23:14 - Who's going to build and design for the future of African markets?
26:57 - Why the name crypto@scale? And what does crypto at scale mean to us?
29:15 - Prediction and wishlist

Where there is fragmentation, informality, and a dearth of infrastructure, there are questions about what the path to formality and standardization will look like. One intriguing answer to that question is conversion franchising, where existing stores are converted into a franchise.

In the future of work context, are microenterprises, their owners, and their employees better off as converted franchisees?

This episode is a case study, with mPharma's Gregory Rockson.

00:00 - We begin this episode's exploration with a question - are subsistence farmers better off as employees of a commercial farm? With Twiga Foods' Peter Njonjo.
06:01 - What does the path to formalization and standardization look like across African markets and sectors? This episode is a case study of conversion franchising, with mPharma's Gregory Rockson.
We define conversion franchising, with help from Next Billion.
07:31 - mPharma started out as an asset-light platform.
09:38 - How mPharma's pharmacy-in-a-box program, QualityRX, got started.
15:38 - From converting franchises one-by-one to pursuing an M&A strategy to convert by the dozen.
21:15 - Is conversion franchising the future of work? Exploring why the model has worked so well for mPharma and pharmacy retail.
25:10- Gregory's theory of change.
27:12 - A retrospective conversation with Sayo Folawiyo and Justin Norman.

This season of The Flip is sponsored by MFS Africa.

African markets are largely informal. So while our examination of workforce and training programs in the fast few episodes focused on formal and salaried jobs, we know that most Africans aren't going to get these types of jobs. So, our exploration of the future of work needs to span much further than that. Where there are no formal jobs, what does it look like to help stimulate the development of the informal sector and microenterprises? And what role does technology play?

In this context, we hear a lot about platforms and their role in creating jobs or income-generating opportunities. But what are the platforms actually good for? And what is their actual impact across African markets? In this episode, we're going to dig into the vertical platforms digitizing microenterprises across the continent. 

3:46 - Defining jobtech platforms, with the Jobtech Alliance's Chris Maclay.

9:10 - What does it look like to build the infrastructure for microenterprises? With Kandua's Sayo Folawiyo. 

12:16 - Exploring what verticalization looks like, and why it is necessary, considering the specifities of the home services sector.

17:25 - Vertical platforms can do a particularly good job at helping small businesses grow. We focus on a particularly large sector, the restaurant industry, with Caantin's Njavwa Mutambo. 

21:20 - A retrospective conversation between Sayo Folawiyo and The Flip's Justin Norman. 

Season 4 of The Flip is sponsored by MFS Africa.

Follow The Flip on Twitter @theflipafrica and subscribe to our newsletter The Flip Notes at https://theflip.africa/newsletter.

Throughout this season, we've heard about this disconnect between supply and demand in the labor marketplace. It's often a skills and training issue. 

Even where there are jobs, there's still this disconnect between demand and supply. But what are we training people for when there are few jobs or income-generating opportunities? 

In the past few episodes of this season, we've explored the talent networks, the remote work platforms, the workforce enablement programs, and the multi-stakeholder initiatives to attract more global roles to the African continent. All of these interventions work to better connect supply and demand in the labor marketplace, and often there is a necessary training component to these interventions to equip African talent with the skills to do the jobs in question.

Edtech and tech-enabled skilling platforms have a role to play too, considering the size and scope of the challenge at hand. So in this episode, we're going to explore these programs working to tackle this problem at scale across the continent.

6:39 - We explore the disconnect between supply and demand in the labor marketplace, and the talent deficiency, with AltSchool Africa's Adewale Yusuf.
9:19 - The business model question is important. The recruiting agency model is at odds with the scale of impact programs seek to achieve, explains Stack Shift's Chris Quintero.
10:48 - Short-form programs need to get really good at developing curriculum that's in line with the demands of the market, especially if they're charging talent directly for their service. We hear from AltSchool Africa's Carlin Henikoff.
14:18 - We explore this challenge with a focus on tertiary education, with Kibo School's Ope Bukola.

Season 4 of The Flip is sponsored by MFS Africa.

Follow The Flip on Twitter @theflipafrica and subscribe to our newsletter The Flip Notes at https://theflip.africa/newsletter.

How do we tie interventions - whether traditional education or boot camps or training programs - to job outcomes? As we'll explore in this episode, it requires a demand-led approach and starts with employers. 

In this episode, we're going to focus on the platforms doing the matching - those that are explicitly working to better connect supply and demand in the job marketplace, to achieve the employment outcomes we wish to see across the continent. 

4:03 - We start our exploration on matching with the traditional jobs marketplaces, with The African Talent Company's Hilda Kragha.
6:26 - What kinds of roles are most in demand across the African content?
8:15 - Taking a demand-led approach, with Generation's Dr. Mona Mourshed.
14:05 - How do we get more employers to consider evolving their hiring practices, in the context of such an inefficient labor market?
17:34 - A retrospective conversation with The Flip's b-mic Sayo Folawiyo, and its Founder, Justin Norman.

Season 4 of The Flip is sponsored by MFS Africa.

Follow The Flip on Twitter @theflipafrica and subscribe to our newsletter The Flip Notes at https://theflip.africa/newsletter.