As Wayne and Sara celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary, Kyle has a lot of questions to ask about their journey in marriage when he is 13 years into his. In this two-part conversation, they discuss how marriage evolves over the course of decades, either moving toward greater frustration or to mutual fulfillment. They cover a broad swath of marital issues, including commitment, faithfulness, sexual play, control, finances, getting help from a third party, and making room for the other to change in ways that might be challenging. Learning to love someone over a lifetime in a relationship of mutual love and self-sacrifice is one of the greatest gifts God makes available to our human experience.

Podcast Notes:

As Wayne and Sara go off to celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary, Kyle has a lot of questions to ask about their journey in marriage when he is 13 years into his. In this two-part conversation, they discuss how marriage evolves over the course of decades, either moving toward greater frustration or to mutual fulfillment. They cover a broad swath of marital issues, including commitment, faithfulness, sexual play, control, finances, getting help from a third party, and making room for the other to change in ways that might be challenging. Learning to love someone over a lifetime in a relationship of mutual love and self-sacrifice is one of the greatest gifts God makes available to our human experience.

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"You know that feeling when something's changed in a friendship, but you can't quite put your finger on it. You used to feel close. Seen. Safe. But lately, something feels off." Those are the opening words of an article written by Therese Mascardo, a friend of Wayne and Kyle's. She offers seven signs that can help you know when to end a friendship, and in this episode, they discuss the article and its implications on relationships with people and religious institutions that can help you find freedom to treat relationships with authenticity instead of pretense.

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The eyes of the world were on Rome last week as presidents, kings, and prime ministers gathered in St. Peter's Square for Pope Francis's funeral. While seemingly a man touched by Jesus, he presided over a religious system that bears little resemblance to Jesus' ministry or priorities. Kyle and Wayne ruminate on how the life of Jesus morphed into these kinds of institutions with leadership hierarchies, ornate costumes, opulent buildings, and programs that seem to do little to connect people with the living Christ. What does it mean for sincere hearts who participate in them, and what does it take to think outside the box of institutional religion when so much of Christianity has invested itself there?

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Since Kyle was unavailable this week due to sickness, Wayne dives solo into the mailbag to share observations and questions from listeners that have built over the months. Thus, it is impossible to put a theme on this podcast since we get to cover a wide range of topics from our listeners, including dealing with abusive people, finding our true identity apart from sin and law, how God experiences our pain, whether God is vengeful, and praying for our country in these turbulent times.

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"Redemption has always cost someone something."  That text from a friend sent Wayne on a journey of discovery of the difference between the nature of love and the nature of darkness, and he invites Kyle to share it with him. Evil always takes something it doesn't deserve to cause pain for someone else. Love gives something another does not deserve, even at significant personal cost, and bears the pain that others are experiencing. Love and Life can only be offered; they can never be forced, neither in giving love nor receiving it. They also talk about making room for growth in others when the status quo is based on their bondage, not freedom.

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Kyle and Wayne have been listening to The Devil and the Deep Blue Sea, a podcast by Christianity Today about the Satanic Panic of the 1980s and 1990s. This spawns a conversation about spiritual warfare and how easily our fears can be manipulated to compromise truth. Our preoccupation with the forces of evil, especially in a fearful state, will do more harm than good. They both share their experiences, questioning what was real and effective and what now seems like a waste of time and spiritual passion. Evil seeks to delight us with something so engaging that we can't see where it will lead us until we're caught in its trap. That's why God invites us to engage him out of trust where we can see more clearly.

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When pushed to the extreme, how do you know when to listen to your body warning you to stop, and when do you persevere through it? Sara Jacobsen joins Kyle and Wayne for a conversation about recovery from trauma and how to honor the healing process. Sara and Kyle were taught not to listen to subconscious warnings and to continue to please the demands of others to their own detriment. They are learning to recognize stress signals and the role of the Holy Spirit in guiding their response to difficult situations. Developing self-awareness and the ability to respond appropriately to emotional cues is an ongoing process that requires self-compassion and patience. At the end of this podcast, Sara shares what she has learned from the past three years dealing with her childhood trauma and the freedom God's Spirit is sowing into her life.

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"Understanding why and how my belief system was formed helps me feel compassion for myself. It gives me the capacity to have patience when I struggle to create new neural pathways. It gives me the strength once again to endure and face deep emotional feelings from abusers. It gives me courage to stand up against the evil done towards me. It awakens me to see what was stolen from me in my formative years. It gives me a glimpse of hope during my internal fight. It opens my eyes a little more to the wrong I endured. It releases me from condemnation heaped upon me. It allows me to speak up and say it wasn’t my fault; I’m not the bad person here. They are. It frees me a to realize I was victimized and not responsible for any of it. It shows me how strong I am to endure so much and survive. It acknowledges my goodness as a human being. It helps to discount the abusers’ words about me. I’m not who they say I was."

"Power does strange things to people," say recent studies. "Like alcohol, (it) has a tangible effect on the brain."  Holding power over others actually rewires the brain to give them less empathy and respect for others. Is that why Jesus told his followers that while the world assumes authority over others, it isn't so in his kingdom? Kyle and Wayne discuss power distribution in hierarchical systems and why it almost always leads to abuse, indulgence, and corruption.

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What would the church look like today if it had been less preoccupied with getting its theology right and more in touch with what it meant to be loved by God and live out of that love in the world? When we put the life of Jesus into institutional systems, we gravitated toward conformity of thought and practice instead of helping people discover the reality of love and its transforming nature. Kyle and Wayne explore the idea that justification is not a declaration by Jesus of our righteousness but the process by which love changes us internally so we live as just people. Is that how we were meant to participate in his kingdom.

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