How do you know if you've been born of God?  For John, it was very clear: "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love." That would have been a scary checklist in my younger days, but what if this is the only measure? How would it change the way we introduced people to salvation? As Kyle and Wayne revisit the justice conversation, they also talk about their Yuck Meters and how love sets them in a place where it is difficult to be unfair to others because you care about them so much.

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From listener emails, a one-thousand-year-old quote, and their own life experience, Kyle and Wayne celebrate the wonder and beauty of God showing up in conversations that inspire us to follow him and give us a better grasp on who God is. That's the power of community, where God makes himself known in us through the conversations we are having with others. They discuss how to let God lead you to such conversations, recognize them when he does, and help open the door for others to join you in conversations that matter. Then, they talk briefly about the sentence Wayne has been working on to unpack a justice view of the Gospel.

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2025 has arrived!  Wayne and Sara take this opportunity to reflect on the last year and what needed to change in their hearts to absorb the surprises that last year heaped upon them. They talk about the nitty-gritty of taking one day at a time and how that sometimes coincides with our need to plan for future events. Since grace is apportioned one day at a time, whenever we allow ourselves to live in our imagined future we are usually alone because we just can't imagine how God will be with us when the future unfolds. Here are some practical ideas about sitting with God in our pain and letting him turn our challenges into new opportunities.

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"There is no terror like the terror of being known," wrote Ralph Waldo Emerson. That's the conundrum of the quest of intimacy. There is no need more central to the human experience than to be fully known and loved, and "there is no greater pain than the pain of intimacy severed—by betrayal, by distance, by death." Wayne stumbled upon an article this week regarding desire for intimacy and the anxiety it creates in those who seek it. Kyle and Wayne see this issue from very different angles as you'll see in this insightful conversation about intimacy and vulnerability in a world where people can often not be trusted with either. Since the need for intimacy is as foundational as our daily hunger, how do we address that need and negotiate the fall-out when people misuse our vulnerability.

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Today's podcast is a double-feature, at no extra charge. After a medical update, Kyle invites Wayne into a conversation about preserving relationship when you're in survival mode and don't have a lot of energy to give. Then, Wayne invites Kyle back to the justice/righteousness conversation as he and Tobie are considering writing a booklet about what it means to be saved. For many of us the first "gospel" we heard was, "You are a dirty sinner who is going to hell if you don't repent and turn your life over to God." But does that really say it? Looking for a fresh way to describe the Gospel, Wayne suggests, "The purpose of God is to win you into his love so, he can fill you with his Life and set you free from the narcissism of flesh. Then, you'll be able to live in God's justice by treating others the way you want to be treated, and thus become an expression of God's kingdom in a world of chaos." We are looking for simple wording that can unpack the reality of the Gospel, apart from human effort and inside the magnificent love of the Creator.

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Sara Jacobsen is Wayne's guest this week as they process their current situation and how it has impacted Sara's journey. Here's the honest nitty-gritty of their struggle and how they are finding a way through it with Jesus. They wrestle with the tough questions, such as one asked by a friend last week:  "Have you been disappointed with God in all of this?" How do you hold on to hope when things keep going downhill? They also talk about how Wayne's surgery interrupted Sara's journey into wholeness and how she's dealing with that. This is an extremely raw and personal look at how Wayne and Sara and traversing this part of their journey and finding joy and provision from God. Both of them are happy to be in a place where their relationship with God is bigger than what life throws at them.

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As many of you know, Wayne has been battling some medical issues that began with excruciating pain and resulted in back surgery to fuse part of his spine and chemotherapy to deal with the bone cancer that caused it. Wayne felt well enough this week to talk with Kyle about what he's dealing with medically and how this ordeal affects his relationship with God. These are not refined conclusions coming from resolved circumstances but honest reflections from the pit of raw need. How do God and Wayne communicate at times like this? How do you deal with escalating pain that prayer doesn't seem to move? How does faith lead us to endurance and how do losesight of God when he doesn't respond the way we want him to?

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After five weeks exploring This Changes Everything with Tobie, Kyle and Wayne take a look at how the shift from righteousness to justice has impacted their lives. They talk about the necessity of a true conversion, not just jumping through some religious hoops that don't begin to fill us with Life and Love. They also talk about how this impacts the gifts of the Spirit play into their lives, and how decisions become a more clearer when focused on fairness and Life, not just making the best decision we can for ourselves.

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Kyle and Wayne complete their five-part series with Tobie van der Westhuizen, from Bloemfontein, South Africa. In this episode, they go all the way back to Adam and Eve and how the fall subjected them to a world of injustice and how God provided a way for his fullness of love and life to displace the injustice in our own hearts. Now, through our participation in his sacrifice, we have his life within us and we can be a distributor of life in the world, instead of seeking to find our life in others or in the temptations of darkness. This is the fifth in a series that will be best appreciated by listening to them all in order.

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Special Bonus Episode!  Tobie van der Westhuizen, joined Wayne and a couple dozen of people for a question and answer session about the podcast series, This Changes Everything. They talk about justice and righteousness and how this misunderstanding of the Gospel came to be. This is the audio version of that recording so people in the podcast feed can give it a listen.

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