The Grading Podcast

What if reducing the emphasis on grades could create more opportunities for students to think deeply, collaborate meaningfully, and develop their own ideas before turning to AI for help? In this episode, Sharona and Boz explore “Talking Is Also Thinking: How Teaching Students to Coach Each Other Before They Write Makes AI Shortcuts Less Tempting,” a guest post by Zia Hassan on the Grading for Growth blog. Drawing on Boz’s experience as an instructional coach, they examine how structured peer coaching can help students develop their thinking through conversation, probing questions, and active listening before they ever begin writing. Along the way, they distinguish peer coaching from more familiar practices such as peer review and editing, consider the practical challenges of teaching students to coach one another, and explore how alternative grading practices can create the time, space, and motivation for these kinds of learning experiences. The conversation raises a larger question: Rather than focusing on preventing students from using AI, what might happen if we redesigned our classrooms to make the learning process itself more valuable to students?

Links

Please note - any books linked here are likely Amazon Associates links. Clicking on them and purchasing through them helps support the show. Thanks for your support!

• Talking is Also Thinking, by Zia Hassan on the Grading for Growth Blog

Resources

The Center for Grading Reform - seeking to advance education in the United States by supporting effective grading reform at all levels through conferences, educational workshops, professional development, research and scholarship, influencing public policy, and community building.

The Grading Conference - an annual, online conference exploring Alternative Grading in Higher Education & K-12.

Some great resources to educate yourself about Alternative Grading:

• The Grading for Growth Blog
• The Grading Conference
• The Intentional Academia Blog

Recommended Books on Alternative Grading:

• Grading for Growth, by Robert Talbert and David Clark
• Specifications Grading, by Linda Nilsen
• Undoing the Grade, by Jesse Stommel

Follow us on Bluesky, Facebook and Instagram - @thegradingpod. To leave us a comment, please go to our website: www.thegradingpod.com and leave a comment on this episode's page.

If you would like to be considered to be a guest on this show, please reach out using the Contact Us form on our website, www.thegradingpod.com.

All content of this podcast and website are solely the opinions of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily represent the views of California State University Los Angeles or the Los Angeles Unified School District.

Music

Country Rock performed by Lite Saturation, licensed under a Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

What if students could earn honors recognition without enrolling in a separate honors class—and without simply doing more work? In this episode, Sharona and Boz welcome back Marc Aronson, who oversees faculty and the academic program at Cheshire Academy, for a follow-up to their conversation in Episode 114. A year after introducing a system that allows students to earn honors designations by demonstrating greater depth, sophistication, and quality of learning within mixed-ability classrooms, Marc shares what happened during the first year of implementation. The conversation explores how teachers designed honors expectations, what students and families experienced, and the challenges of creating meaningful opportunities for advanced learning without increasing competition or workload. Along the way, they examine questions of equity, student motivation, faculty buy-in, and the relationship between academic achievement and contributing to a community of learners.

Links

Please note - any books linked here are likely Amazon Associates links. Clicking on them and purchasing through them helps support the show. Thanks for your support!

• Ep 114 - Grading What Matters: Leveraging Extrinsic Motivation to Grow Students in Multiple Dimensions

Resources

The Center for Grading Reform - seeking to advance education in the United States by supporting effective grading reform at all levels through conferences, educational workshops, professional development, research and scholarship, influencing public policy, and community building.

The Grading Conference - an annual, online conference exploring Alternative Grading in Higher Education & K-12.

Some great resources to educate yourself about Alternative Grading:

• The Grading for Growth Blog
• The Grading Conference
• The Intentional Academia Blog

Recommended Books on Alternative Grading:

• Grading for Growth, by Robert Talbert and David Clark
• Specifications Grading, by Linda Nilsen
• Undoing the Grade, by Jesse Stommel

Follow us on Bluesky, Facebook and Instagram - @thegradingpod. To leave us a comment, please go to our website: www.thegradingpod.com and leave a comment on this episode's page.

If you would like to be considered to be a guest on this show, please reach out using the Contact Us form on our website, www.thegradingpod.com.

All content of this podcast and website are solely the opinions of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily represent the views of California State University Los Angeles or the Los Angeles Unified School District.

Music

Country Rock performed by Lite Saturation, licensed under a Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

What happens when an alternatively graded course moves from the planning stage into an actual classroom? Six weeks into teaching Quantitative Reasoning for Everyday Life for the first time, Sharona goes on the hot seat as Boz asks how the course she spent the summer designing is actually working. They revisit the central idea that finally brought together a seemingly disconnected course in voting, statistics, and finance: the role of human decision-making when multiple mathematically valid approaches are available. Sharona and Boz then dig into the grading architecture built around it. From fourteen learning outcomes and three portfolios to quizzes, investigations, reflection, revision, and reassessment, the conversation looks at how the pieces fit together, what has already needed adjustment, and what it is like to make grading decisions when you can't fall back on points and percentages to create the appearance of certainty.

Links

Please note - any books linked here are likely Amazon Associates links. Clicking on them and purchasing through them helps support the show. Thanks for your support!

Resources

The Center for Grading Reform - seeking to advance education in the United States by supporting effective grading reform at all levels through conferences, educational workshops, professional development, research and scholarship, influencing public policy, and community building.

The Grading Conference - an annual, online conference exploring Alternative Grading in Higher Education & K-12.

Some great resources to educate yourself about Alternative Grading:

• The Grading for Growth Blog
• The Grading Conference
• The Intentional Academia Blog

Recommended Books on Alternative Grading:

• Grading for Growth, by Robert Talbert and David Clark
• Specifications Grading, by Linda Nilsen
• Undoing the Grade, by Jesse Stommel

Follow us on Bluesky, Facebook and Instagram - @thegradingpod. To leave us a comment, please go to our website: www.thegradingpod.com and leave a comment on this episode's page.

If you would like to be considered to be a guest on this show, please reach out using the Contact Us form on our website, www.thegradingpod.com.

All content of this podcast and website are solely the opinions of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily represent the views of California State University Los Angeles or the Los Angeles Unified School District.

Music

Country Rock performed by Lite Saturation, licensed under a Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

If higher education says its students are learning, how do we actually know? In this episode, Sharona and Boz dig into Doug Lederman’s three-part series on measuring learning in higher education, focusing on his proposed path forward and the questions that have to come before choosing an assessment. What should students actually know and be able to do? Who gets to decide? Should we measure whether students reach a defined level of proficiency, how much they grow from where they started, or some combination of the two? And at what point in a course, program, or degree should that learning be demonstrated? Along the way, they explore university mission statements and institutional learning outcomes, the challenge of defining learning even in long-established courses like Calculus I, and possible approaches to gathering meaningful evidence of learning, from examinations to portfolios.

Links

Please note - any books linked here are likely Amazon Associates links. Clicking on them and purchasing through them helps support the show. Thanks for your support!

• Failure to Measure Learning Is Hurting Higher Education, by Doug Lederman
• Why We Haven’t Measured College-Level Learning, by Doug Lederman
• The Way(s) Forward on Measuring Learning, by Doug Lederman

Resources

The Center for Grading Reform - seeking to advance education in the United States by supporting effective grading reform at all levels through conferences, educational workshops, professional development, research and scholarship, influencing public policy, and community building.

The Grading Conference - an annual, online conference exploring Alternative Grading in Higher Education & K-12.

Some great resources to educate yourself about Alternative Grading:

• The Grading for Growth Blog
• The Grading Conference
• The Intentional Academia Blog

Recommended Books on Alternative Grading:

• Grading for Growth, by Robert Talbert and David Clark
• Specifications Grading, by Linda Nilsen
• Undoing the Grade, by Jesse Stommel

Follow us on Bluesky, Facebook and Instagram - @thegradingpod. To leave us a comment, please go to our website: www.thegradingpod.com and leave a comment on this episode's page.

If you would like to be considered to be a guest on this show, please reach out using the Contact Us form on our website, www.thegradingpod.com.

All content of this podcast and website are solely the opinions of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily represent the views of California State University Los Angeles or the Los Angeles Unified School District.

Music

Country Rock performed by Lite Saturation, licensed under a Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

What do students believe grades are supposed to do? In this episode, Sharona and Boz explore that question through three recent articles written by student journalists about traditional and alternative grading. Their arguments surface beliefs that are deeply embedded in our educational culture: that letter grades provide objective information about learning, that grades motivate students to work harder, that reassessment may reward students who did not try hard enough the first time, and that alternative grading means abandoning familiar measures like percentages, letter grades, and GPAs. Rather than simply asking whether these students are right or wrong, Sharona and Boz examine what their perspectives reveal about the assumptions students may bring into our classrooms and why understanding those beliefs matters when we ask students to participate in a grading system that works differently from the one they have known for most of their education.

Links

Please note - any books linked here are likely Amazon Associates links. Clicking on them and purchasing through them helps support the show. Thanks for your support!

• Science Department Changes All Biology Classes to an Average-Based Grading System
• Dueling Column: Going beyond As and Bs: Can alternative grading help students learn more effectively?
• Dueling Column: Making The Mark – Do Alternative Grading Systems Really Work?

Resources

The Center for Grading Reform - seeking to advance education in the United States by supporting effective grading reform at all levels through conferences, educational workshops, professional development, research and scholarship, influencing public policy, and community building.

The Grading Conference - an annual, online conference exploring Alternative Grading in Higher Education & K-12.

Some great resources to educate yourself about Alternative Grading:

• The Grading for Growth Blog
• The Grading Conference
• The Intentional Academia Blog

Recommended Books on Alternative Grading:

• Grading for Growth, by Robert Talbert and David Clark
• Specifications Grading, by Linda Nilsen
• Undoing the Grade, by Jesse Stommel

Follow us on Bluesky, Facebook and Instagram - @thegradingpod. To leave us a comment, please go to our website: www.thegradingpod.com and leave a comment on this episode's page.

If you would like to be considered to be a guest on this show, please reach out using the Contact Us form on our website, www.thegradingpod.com.

All content of this podcast and website are solely the opinions of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily represent the views of California State University Los Angeles or the Los Angeles Unified School District.

Music

Country Rock performed by Lite Saturation, licensed under a Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

With grading reform receiving increasing attention across both K–12 and higher education, how do we turn growing interest into change that actually lasts? In this episode, Sharona and Boz explore The Five Ps of Starting and Sustaining Grading Reform, a framework developed by Matt Townsley and colleagues for moving grading reform beyond the work of individual educators and toward broader institutional change. Organized around people, purpose, policies, pace, and persistence, the framework provides a starting point for thinking about who needs to be involved, how a community develops a shared reason for changing its grading practices, what kinds of institutional guardrails can support rather than prescribe practice, and how change might unfold over time.

Links

Please note - any books linked here are likely Amazon Associates links. Clicking on them and purchasing through them helps support the show. Thanks for your support!

• The Five Ps of Starting and Sustaining Grading Reform
• While other schools weigh grading reforms, Princeton remains silent
• Bananaland University

Resources

The Center for Grading Reform - seeking to advance education in the United States by supporting effective grading reform at all levels through conferences, educational workshops, professional development, research and scholarship, influencing public policy, and community building.

The Grading Conference - an annual, online conference exploring Alternative Grading in Higher Education & K-12.

Some great resources to educate yourself about Alternative Grading:

• The Grading for Growth Blog
• The Grading Conference
• The Intentional Academia Blog

Recommended Books on Alternative Grading:

• Grading for Growth, by Robert Talbert and David Clark
• Specifications Grading, by Linda Nilsen
• Undoing the Grade, by Jesse Stommel

Follow us on Bluesky, Facebook and Instagram - @thegradingpod. To leave us a comment, please go to our website: www.thegradingpod.com and leave a comment on this episode's page.

If you would like to be considered to be a guest on this show, please reach out using the Contact Us form on our website, www.thegradingpod.com.

All content of this podcast and website are solely the opinions of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily represent the views of California State University Los Angeles or the Los Angeles Unified School District.

Music

Country Rock performed by Lite Saturation, licensed under a Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

When students can outsource much of their schoolwork to generative AI, is the answer to make assignments harder to cheat on? Or is it to make learning more worth doing? In this episode, Sharona and Boz are joined by writer, educator, and Inside Higher Ed columnist John Warner, author of More Than Words: How to Think About Writing in the Age of AI. Drawing on two decades of teaching writing and his own journey from traditional assessment to ungrading, John explores the tensions between the learning experiences instructors say they value and the grading systems used to evaluate them. The conversation turns to the arrival of what John calls the new “homework machine,” the limitations of retreating entirely to locked-down, in-class assessment, and what it might mean to approach student AI use as a learning and course-design problem rather than primarily as a problem of cheating and academic integrity.

Links

Please note - any books linked here are likely Amazon Associates links. Clicking on them and purchasing through them helps support the show. Thanks for your support!

• More Than Words: How to Think About Writing in the Age of AI, by John Warner
• The Real Mission of Higher Education Is Hiding in Plain Sight, on Inside Higher Ed, by John Warner
• (Some) Starter Questions for Measuring Learning, on Inside Higher Ed, by John Warner
• Moral Instruction Will Not Stop Cheating, on Inside Higher Ed, by John Warner

Resources

The Center for Grading Reform - seeking to advance education in the United States by supporting effective grading reform at all levels through conferences, educational workshops, professional development, research and scholarship, influencing public policy, and community building.

The Grading Conference - an annual, online conference exploring Alternative Grading in Higher Education & K-12.

Some great resources to educate yourself about Alternative Grading:

• The Grading for Growth Blog
• The Grading Conference
• The Intentional Academia Blog

Recommended Books on Alternative Grading:

• Grading for Growth, by Robert Talbert and David Clark
• Specifications Grading, by Linda Nilsen
• Undoing the Grade, by Jesse Stommel

Follow us on Bluesky, Facebook and Instagram - @thegradingpod. To leave us a comment, please go to our website: www.thegradingpod.com and leave a comment on this episode's page.

If you would like to be considered to be a guest on this show, please reach out using the Contact Us form on our website, www.thegradingpod.com.

All content of this podcast and website are solely the opinions of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily represent the views of California State University Los Angeles or the Los Angeles Unified School District.

Music

Country Rock performed by Lite Saturation, licensed under a Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

What happens when one of the world’s leading technology institutions concludes that responding to generative AI requires more than deciding when students should or shouldn’t be allowed to use it? In this episode, Sharona and Boz dig into a new report from MIT’s Ad Hoc Committee on AI Use in Teaching, Learning, and Research Training, which calls on the institution to reconsider what students need to learn, how courses and assessments should be designed in an AI-aware world, and even the role that grades and grading play in education. The report raises questions that will sound familiar to alternative grading practitioners: How do we keep the focus on learning rather than credentials? What kinds of assessment actually provide evidence of student learning when AI can complete many traditional assignments? And how might backwards design, productive struggle, reflection, agency, and mastery help educators rethink their courses for a rapidly changing educational landscape?

Links

Please note - any books linked here are likely Amazon Associates links. Clicking on them and purchasing through them helps support the show. Thanks for your support!

• MIT AI Committee Full Report
• MIT Public Facing Page for the AI Committee Report
• MIT AI Report Calls for Alternative Grading, More Social Learning, Article, published on Inside Higher Ed
• Josh Eyler Post on Bluesky
• MIT Says AI is Forcing a Rethink of College Itself, Article, published on Forbes

Resources

The Center for Grading Reform - seeking to advance education in the United States by supporting effective grading reform at all levels through conferences, educational workshops, professional development, research and scholarship, influencing public policy, and community building.

The Grading Conference - an annual, online conference exploring Alternative Grading in Higher Education & K-12.

Some great resources to educate yourself about Alternative Grading:

• The Grading for Growth Blog
• The Grading Conference
• The Intentional Academia Blog

Recommended Books on Alternative Grading:

• Grading for Growth, by Robert Talbert and David Clark
• Specifications Grading, by Linda Nilsen
• Undoing the Grade, by Jesse Stommel

Follow us on Bluesky, Facebook and Instagram - @thegradingpod. To leave us a comment, please go to our website: www.thegradingpod.com and leave a comment on this episode's page.

If you would like to be considered to be a guest on this show, please reach out using the Contact Us form on our website, www.thegradingpod.com.

All content of this podcast and website are solely the opinions of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily represent the views of California State University Los Angeles or the Los Angeles Unified School District.

Music

Country Rock performed by Lite Saturation, licensed under a Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

What does alternative grading look like when your class has 300 students—and what happens when generative AI forces you to rethink a system that had been working? In this episode, Sharona and Boz are joined by Jordan Kostiuk, Associate Teaching Professor of Mathematics at Brown University, to talk about his use of team-based inquiry learning and mastery-based grading in a large, coordinated linear algebra course. Jordan shares how a course organized around six sections, a team of graduate students, postdocs, and undergraduate TAs, and structured opportunities to demonstrate fluency made alternative grading possible at a scale that can seem daunting. The conversation also explores Jordan’s newest course redesign, prompted in part by the changing AI landscape, including moving fluency assessments back into a synchronous environment while introducing a portfolio designed to capture problem solving, mathematical communication, feedback, revision, and reflection.

Links

Please note - any books linked here are likely Amazon Associates links. Clicking on them and purchasing through them helps support the show. Thanks for your support!

• Jordan Kostiuk's Website
• Team-Based Inquiry Learning
• Humanizing Linear Algebra at Scale with Team-Based Inquiry Learning, by Jordan Kostiuk (paywall)

Resources

The Center for Grading Reform - seeking to advance education in the United States by supporting effective grading reform at all levels through conferences, educational workshops, professional development, research and scholarship, influencing public policy, and community building.

The Grading Conference - an annual, online conference exploring Alternative Grading in Higher Education & K-12.

Some great resources to educate yourself about Alternative Grading:

• The Grading for Growth Blog
• The Grading Conference
• The Intentional Academia Blog

Recommended Books on Alternative Grading:

• Grading for Growth, by Robert Talbert and David Clark
• Specifications Grading, by Linda Nilsen
• Undoing the Grade, by Jesse Stommel

Follow us on Bluesky, Facebook and Instagram - @thegradingpod. To leave us a comment, please go to our website: www.thegradingpod.com and leave a comment on this episode's page.

If you would like to be considered to be a guest on this show, please reach out using the Contact Us form on our website, www.thegradingpod.com.

All content of this podcast and website are solely the opinions of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily represent the views of California State University Los Angeles or the Los Angeles Unified School District.

Music

Country Rock performed by Lite Saturation, licensed under a Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

What happens when a university responds to concerns about grades not by limiting A’s, but by making first-semester grades largely disappear? In this episode, Sharona and Boz examine the University of Michigan College of Literature, Science, and the Arts’ new First Semester Grade Covering Pilot Program, which will replace visible letter grades for first-semester students with pass/no-pass marks beginning in fall 2027. The policy is intended to ease students’ transition to college, reduce academic pressure, and create more freedom to explore courses without worrying about the impact on their GPA. With similar policies having existed for decades at institutions such as MIT, the new program provides an opportunity to consider what happens when an institution changes the stakes attached to grades without necessarily changing the grading practices happening inside individual courses and what that distinction might mean for students, instructors, and learning.

Links

• University of Michigan Grade Covering Policy
• U of Michigan Attempts to Disrupt the Transactional System, by John Warner
• The Real Mission of Higher Education is Hiding in Plan Sight, by John Warner
• Addressing the Transactional Model of School, by John Warner
• Harvard Doesn't Care About Students, by John Warner
• Josh Eyler on LinkedIn Re: U of Michigan Grade Covering Policy

Resources

The Center for Grading Reform - seeking to advance education in the United States by supporting effective grading reform at all levels through conferences, educational workshops, professional development, research and scholarship, influencing public policy, and community building.

The Grading Conference - an annual, online conference exploring Alternative Grading in Higher Education & K-12.

Some great resources to educate yourself about Alternative Grading:

• The Grading for Growth Blog
• The Grading Conference
• The Intentional Academia Blog

Recommended Books on Alternative Grading:

• Grading for Growth, by Robert Talbert and David Clark
• Specifications Grading, by Linda Nilsen
• Undoing the Grade, by Jesse Stommel

Follow us on Bluesky, Facebook and Instagram - @thegradingpod. To leave us a comment, please go to our website: www.thegradingpod.com and leave a comment on this episode's page.

If you would like to be considered to be a guest on this show, please reach out using the Contact Us form on our website, www.thegradingpod.com.

All content of this podcast and website are solely the opinions of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily represent the views of California State University Los Angeles or the Los Angeles Unified School District.

Music

Country Rock performed by Lite Saturation, licensed under a Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.