The Heat Pump Podcast

Join the best heat pump contractors at the US Heat Pump Summit

November 18-19, 2025 | DCU Center, Worcester, MA

The annual gathering of top contractors advancing their work with heat pumps. Get world-class business and technical training from industry leaders, plus direct access to regulators, rebate providers, and energy experts shaping the future of our industry.

Get 10% off registration with code AMPLY

https://bit.ly/us-heatpump-summit

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Most HVAC companies grow by adding people, overhead, and complexity. But what if you could grow faster, more profitably, and with fewer people? In this episode of the Heat Pump Podcast, HVAC entrepreneur Mike Townsend breaks down how he's rethinking the entire HVAC business model — ditching traditional back office roles, leaning into AI, and focusing 100% on high-efficiency heat pumps. With just 10 field staff and no dedicated office, his new venture, Veteran Heating, Cooling, Plumbing & Electric, hit $600K in sales in its first six weeks. This is a masterclass in lean, scalable business design for modern HVAC contractors.

Mike Townsend is a U.S. Army veteran and seasoned HVAC entrepreneur with 30 years of experience. After scaling his previous company to $15 million before selling to private equity, he’s now starting over—with a leaner, AI-driven business model that challenges industry norms. His deep operational insight and hard-earned lessons make him a must-listen for anyone in the trades.

Expect to Learn:

• Why Mike eliminated roles like service managers and built a team of self-managed pros
• How AI voice agents and outsourced operations reduce costs and improve responsiveness
• The sales strategy behind an 80% close rate for high-efficiency heat pump installs
• Why Mike refuses to offer good-better-best options and only sells one product
• How geo-targeted recruiting and community-focused marketing give him a hiring edge

Timestamps:

[00:00] - Episode Teaser

[02:35] - Meet Mike Townsend: Army Veteran to HVAC Entrepreneur

[06:08] - Founding His First Company and Learning the Hard Lessons

[17:08] - The Corporate Stagnation That Sparked Innovation

[26:05] - Building the New Model: AI-driven, Fully Outsourced Operations

[41:20] - $600K in 6 Weeks: What’s Working and Why

[47:37] - Why Mike Only Sells Heat Pumps and How He Closes the Deal

[51:36] - Using AI & Amply for Precise System Design

[56:15] - Resource List: Tools, Vendors, and Hiring Secrets

[59:34] - Final Thoughts

The Resources and Vendors That Make It Work:

For contractors interested in Mike’s approach, here’s his go-to vendor stack:

• Accounting: Out of the Box Technology
• Web Design/SEO: CI Web Group (with proprietary AI for dynamic content optimization)
• Google Ads: Mixing Group
• Video/Social Media: Ascend Creative
• AI Call Center: Onepath
• Back Office Support: Work Hero
• Rebate Financing: Eli Build (provides 95% of rebate via ACH overnight)
• Dispatch: Philippine-based virtual assistants
• AI Sales Coaching: Noso Labs

Follow Mike Townsend:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-townsend-0743a12a/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/R.Mike.Townsend/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/r.mike.townsend/

Follow Company: 

• Website: https://www.servicebyveteran.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/veteran-hcpe/

Follow the Hosts:

• Ed Smith: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ed-smith-5aa8716
• Eric Fitz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ehfitz/
• Amply Energy Website: https://www.amply.energy/
• Amply Energy YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@amplyenergy
• Amply Energy Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amplyenergy
• Amply Energy Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amply_energy/

Want to build the future of heat pump software? We're hiring a software engineer to help contractors measure homes faster and design systems more accurately. Check out our open role. https://info.amply.energy/sr-mobile-engineer-may-2025

Zero Homes is on the rise — and they’re hiring! Explore exciting career opportunities on their hiring board: https://jobs.lever.co/zerohomes

Contractors, this is your chance to partner with a fast-growing, innovative company. Learn how you can join the Zero Homes contractor network today: https://www.zerohomes.io/contractors

Join the best heat pump contractors at the US Heat Pump Summit

November 18-19, 2025 | DCU Center, Worcester, MA

The annual gathering of top contractors advancing their work with heat pumps. Get world-class business and technical training from industry leaders, plus direct access to regulators, rebate providers, and energy experts shaping the future of our industry.

Get 10% off registration with code AMPLY

https://bit.ly/us-heatpump-summit

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Guest: Grant Gunnison, CEO of Zero Homes

Grant Gunnison learned the brutal economics of contracting the hard way — at age 23, after his father's death, he dropped out of grad school to run the family business with 18 employees, no price book, and a filing system of manila folders. What frustrated him most was that customer acquisition consumed 25% of revenue, with contractors spending hours in trucks driving between appointments. But the real revelation came when he discovered why contractors avoid heat pumps: designing a furnace takes "about five seconds" while heat pump systems require "three hours" with no guarantee of winning the job. This $500 design cost systematically discourages heat pump installations in favor of simple changeouts.

Zero Homes eliminates this problem by removing site visits entirely. Homeowners use their smartphone for 20 minutes to create a digital twin of their home, enabling remote heat pump system design and quoting. The Department of Energy validated this approach as "just as accurate as sending a person into the home" with better consistency than manual assessments. The model completely inverts traditional contractor economics: instead of making money on equipment margins while absorbing design time risk, contractors receive install-ready jobs and get paid $180-200/hour for labor.

The approach creates unexpected opportunities, particularly in rural markets where contractors typically can't justify long drives to bid jobs. Quality control remains rigorous through 30-40 item commissioning checklists and live video calls for initial installations.

Key Takeaways

1. Customer acquisition costs are becoming unsustainable for traditional approaches
2. Specialization creates new partnership opportunities for installation-focused contractors
3. Quality installation still commands premium pricing even in systematized models

Timestamps:

[02:14] - Overview of Zero Homes

[04:54] - Why Heat Pumps?

[11:41] - Building a Marketplace for Home Electrification

[15:10] - The Homeowner Journey

[17:58] - Contractor Economics: Making it Work for Everyone

[29:35] - Quality Control & Design Process

[35:56] - The Risks & Rewards of Partnering with Zero Homes

[43:05] - Advice for HVAC Entrepreneurs

Follow Grant Gunnison:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/grantgunnison/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/grant.gunnison

Follow Zero Homes:  

• Website: https://www.zerohomes.io/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/zerohomes/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/Zero-Homes/61577379394691/ 

Follow the Hosts:

• Ed Smith: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ed-smith-5aa8716
• Eric Fitz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ehfitz/
• Amply Energy Website: https://www.amply.energy/
• Amply Energy YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@amplyenergy
• Amply Energy Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amplyenergy
• Amply Energy Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amply_energy/

Want to build the future of heat pump software? We're hiring a software engineer to help contractors measure homes faster and design systems more accurately. Check out our open role. https://info.amply.energy/sr-mobile-engineer-may-2025

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Join the best heat pump contractors at the US Heat Pump Summit

November 18-19, 2025 | DCU Center, Worcester, MA

The annual gathering of top contractors advancing their work with heat pumps. Get world-class business and technical training from industry leaders, plus direct access to regulators, rebate providers, and energy experts shaping the future of our industry.

Get 10% off registration with code AMPLY

https://bit.ly/us-heatpump-summit

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In this episode of the Heat Pump Podcast, hosts Ed Smith and Eric Fitz are joined by Nate Adams, a renowned expert in building science and home performance. Known as the "House Whisperer," Nate brings years of experience in optimizing HVAC systems to improve comfort and energy efficiency. He shares his perspectives on the challenges and opportunities in the field of electrification for residential homes. The conversation centers around practical approaches to sizing HVAC systems, the importance of feedback loops for understanding system performance, and the role of electrification in creating more sustainable and comfortable homes.

Key Takeaways:

• The importance of sizing HVAC systems correctly to improve both comfort and energy efficiency.
• How heat pumps offer a superior experience compared to conventional heating and cooling systems.
• Why many HVAC systems are often oversized and how this negatively impacts comfort.
• The value of monitoring system performance and gathering real-world data to optimize HVAC solutions.
• A comprehensive look at Manual J calculations, the issues with input data, and why “being aggressive” with inputs is the way to size systems correctly.

Timestamps:

[00:00] - Introduction to Nate Adams

[03:34] - The House Whisperer's Approach

[06:14] - Nate's HVAC Career Path

[12:46] - Electrification and Heat Pumps

[17:57] - The Debate on Heat Pumps and Furnaces

[21:34] - The Misconception of Manual J

[24:53] - Understanding Manual J Calculations

[32:23] - Feedback Loops for Better Comfort

[36:34] - Aggressive Sizing for Comfort

[45:28] - The Challenge of Scaling HVAC Solutions

[57:00] - Closing Thoughts

Follow Nate Adams:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natethehousewhisperer/ 
• Website: https://www.natethehousewhisperer.com/ 
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/natethehousewhisperer/?igsh=bXNyeTAwNGkybWk4#

Follow the Hosts:

• Ed Smith: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ed-smith-5aa8716
• Eric Fitz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ehfitz/
• Amply Energy Website: https://www.amply.energy/
• Amply Energy YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@amplyenergy
• Amply Energy Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amplyenergy
• Amply Energy Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amply_energy/

Ready to design heat pump systems that really work? Grab our free manual S cold-climate heat pump selection tool—the same systematic approach that helps contractors get sizing right the first time: https://bit.ly/heatpump-manual-s-free-tool

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Shawn LeMons has worn nearly every hat in the world of building performance and HVAC. From growing up in off-grid homes to earning top building science certifications and co-owning a heat pump contracting business, his journey is full of lessons for contractors.

In this episode, Shawn joins hosts Ed Smith and Eric Fitz to talk about:

• Why Manual J is the best wrong tool we have
• Designing systems at 11,000 feet and the balance of math + judgement
• How referrals and diligence outcompete paid marketing
• The importance of tradespeople’s dignity, mental health, and sustainable growth

Whether you’re scaling a contracting business or sharpening your design process, this conversation offers both practical strategies and grounded wisdom.

Timestamps:

[00:00] - Introduction

[02:23] - Early life lessons in unique homes

[15:12] - Why focus on heat pumps

[19:21] - Incentives, early adopters, and Colorado’s growing demand

[28:23] - A homeowner-first sales and design process

[36:38] - Looking ahead: shop ownership, recycling, and team wellbeing

[39:12] - Mental health in the trades and valuing hands-on genius

[43:53] - Final advice: stay curious, stay informed, stay human

Follow Shawn LeMons:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shawnlemons/ 

Follow:  

• Website: https://mtnwesthp.com 

Follow the Hosts:

• Ed Smith: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ed-smith-5aa8716
• Eric Fitz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ehfitz/
• Amply Energy Website: https://www.amply.energy/
• Amply Energy YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@amplyenergy
• Amply Energy Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amplyenergy
• Amply Energy Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amply_energy/

Want to build the future of heat pump software? We're hiring a software engineer to help contractors measure homes faster and design systems more accurately. Check out our open role. https://info.amply.energy/sr-mobile-engineer-may-2025

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In this episode of The Heat Pump Podcast, Ed Smith and Eric Fitz sit down with Jake Yurek and Evan Anderson, Co-Founders of Pearl Edison — a startup rethinking how heat pumps and residential electrification projects get done. Pearl Edison doesn’t sell hardware or traditional SaaS; instead, they act as a concierge service, bridging the gap between utilities, homeowners, and contractors. Their white-labeled platform (like DTE’s Heat Pump Concierge) simplifies the process for homeowners while handing contractors fully designed, install-ready jobs — cutting acquisition costs and boosting quality outcomes.

Jake and Evan discuss the origins of their mission, their unusual business model, and how they’re applying software-driven workflows and diagnostics to deliver better, faster installs at scale. From reducing the burden on expert designers to learning from the failures of Heat Pump 1.0, they explain how Pearl Edison is helping avoid the coming "heat pump revolt" and building trust between all parties involved. This episode is packed with lessons for anyone building in energy efficiency, HVAC, or climate tech.

Key Learnings:

• Pearl Edison provides fully scoped, install-ready jobs to contractors.
• Homeowners receive upfront estimates, design options, and rebate info.
• The model removes guesswork from sizing and scoping heat pump systems.
• Contractors retain pricing flexibility and avoid low-quality rate card models.
• Guided in-home assessments enable better central system design.
• Utility partnerships support growth while safeguarding customer experience.

Timestamps:

[00:00] - Introduction

[02:30] - Meet Jake & Evan and how Pearl Edison started

[04:07] - Jake & Evan’s career journeys and how they reconnected

[08:35] - Pearl Edison’s white-labeled B2B model explained

[15:52] - On pricing, bidding, and contractor flexibility

[18:22] - Traction: Where Pearl Edison is operating now

[27:25] - How smarter diagnostics empower homeowner decision-making

[37:34] - What’s keeping them up at night — and what excites them

[40:01] - Advice for startups and contractors in the space

Follow Jake Yurek:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jakeyurek/ 

Follow Evan Anderson:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/evananderson313/ 

Follow Pearl Edison:  

• Website: https://www.pearledison.com/ 
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pearledison/ 

Follow the Hosts:

• Ed Smith: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ed-smith-5aa8716
• Eric Fitz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ehfitz/
• Amply Energy Website: https://www.amply.energy/
• Amply Energy YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@amplyenergy
• Amply Energy Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amplyenergy
• Amply Energy Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amply_energy/

Want to help build the future of heat pump software? We're hiring a software engineer to help contractors measure homes faster and design systems more accurately. Check out our open role. https://info.amply.energy/sr-mobile-engineer-may-2025

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If you're a heat pump contractor feeling burnt out, wondering if this whole electrification thing is worth the hassle, or questioning whether you can build something meaningful in HVAC — this episode is your shot of inspiration.

Stephen Hong is just over 30 years old. He's got a materials science degree from Virginia Tech. He's been running Electrify Colorado Mechanical for only a year and a half. And listening to him talk about heat pumps, you'd think he just discovered fire.

"Heat pumps are the pearl of HVAC," Stephen says, and he means it. Not because they're easy money or simple installs, but because they're challenging. Because they matter. Because when you get one right, you're not just fixing someone's comfort — you're making a real dent in climate change while working on what Stephen calls "the most immense responsibility" — people's homes.

This isn't your typical contractor success story. Stephen's path wound through disaster relief work, dead-end construction jobs, and answering a Craigslist ad from a guy who asked: "Do you want to help people stop burning dinosaur bones?" 

Key Learnings

• Quality installs start with airtight refrigerant handling — leaks can reverse years of climate gains.
• Transparency and education are Stephen’s tools for building trust with homeowners.
• A heat pump project done well is a climate solution and a customer service win.
• Scaling a business means balancing growth with quality and training.
• Partnering with great electricians is critical to whole-home electrification success.
• Humility and honesty go further than “sales talk” in winning customers’ trust.

Timestamps:

[00:00] - Introduction

[02:45] - Meet Stephen Hong and Electrify Colorado Mechanical

[04:26] - Stephen’s path from engineering to disaster relief to HVAC

[17:24] - The 5,000 details that make or break an install

[22:48] - Building trust through radical transparency

[30:40] - His vision for growing the business — slowly and sustainably

[37:02] - Stephen’s advice: Be human, ask for help, respect the responsibility

Follow Stephen Hong:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hongs1/ 

Follow Electrify Colorado Mechanical:  

• Company’s Website: https://electrifycolorado.us/ 
• Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/electrify-colorado-mechanical/ 

Follow the Hosts:

• Ed Smith: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ed-smith-5aa8716
• Eric Fitz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ehfitz/
• Amply Energy Website: https://www.amply.energy/
• Amply Energy YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@amplyenergy
• Amply Energy Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amplyenergy
• Amply Energy Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amply_energy/

Want to build the future of heat pump software? We're hiring a software engineer to help contractors measure homes faster and design systems more accurately. Check out our open role. https://info.amply.energy/sr-mobile-engineer-may-2025

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In this episode, Ed Smith welcomes Jonathan Pires, Area Sales Manager at Mitsubishi Electric, to explore what separates thriving HVAC contractors from the rest. Jonathan shares hard-earned insights from the field, explains how Mitsubishi’s Diamond Contractor Program works, and offers concrete tools that contractors often overlook — but shouldn’t. From the importance of software and sales training to key installation missteps, this conversation is packed with real-world advice for anyone working in heat pumps.

Key Takeaways:

• Contractors who leverage software to develop repeatable, faster, more accurate processes outperform those who don’t.
• Mitsubishi’s Diamond Contractor Program offers major (and free) perks.
• Many install issues trace back to lack of load calculations and poor homeowner education.
• When it comes to heat pumps, homeowner expectations must be set around system behavior like noise, defrost, and setbacks since they differ from traditional systems.
• Simple tools like price books and financing integration can dramatically impact close rates.
• Selling from your own wallet often limits customer opportunity — focus on value, not assumptions.

Timestamps:

[00:00] - Introduction

[04:11] - Background of Jonathan Pires

[08:26] - What an Area Sales Manager actually does day-to-day

[11:36] - Marketing support and overlooked Mitsubishi dealer resources

[17:16] - Overview of the Diamond Contractor Program and scorecard

[25:07] - Case study: reclaiming weekends through automation

[34:02] - Avoiding callbacks: setting proper expectations with homeowners

[39:00] - Ducted vs. ductless: when and how to use both

[41:39] - Best resources for contractors looking to upskill

Follow Jonathan Pires:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jpires781/ 

Follow Mitsubishi Electric:  

• Website: https://www.mitsubishielectric.com/en/ 
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/metushvac/ 
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MitsubishiElectric/ 
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mitsubishielectric/ 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkDaGvT5PvALPg9sjhVEusA 

Follow the Hosts:

• Ed Smith: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ed-smith-5aa8716
• Eric Fitz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ehfitz/
• Amply Energy Website: https://www.amply.energy/
• Amply Energy YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@amplyenergy
• Amply Energy Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amplyenergy
• Amply Energy Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amply_energy/

Want to help build the future of heat pump software? We're hiring a software engineer to help contractors measure homes faster and design systems more accurately. Check out our open role. https://info.amply.energy/sr-mobile-engineer-may-2025

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In this episode of the Heat Pump Podcast, Ed Smith welcomes back Mike Cappuccio, who built his HVAC company to over $15 million in revenue with 72 employees before selling to private equity in 2021. Now coaching contractors nationwide through Dominate Ductless, Mike shares the specific metrics, systems, and strategies that separate successful heat pump businesses from those that struggle.

Why Private Equity Was the Right Exit

While getting into the HVAC business is easy, getting out profitably is much harder. Many acquisition companies offer only 30% upfront with aggressive three-year earnouts contractors rarely achieve. Private equity offered Mike 95% upfront with minimal risk, though with the trade-off of giving up control: "The house was white, they painted it orange. But it's their house, not mine anymore."

The 6 Key Metrics Private Equity Firms Evaluate

• Revenue per employee: $250,000-350,000 annually (includes everyone from installers to office staff)
• Overhead costs and gross profit per work hour
• Revenue per salesperson: Target $300,000+ monthly, not the "horrible" $1M annually
• Revenue per service truck: At least $200,000 annually per vehicle
• Installation revenue metrics
• Number of maintenance agreements: Creates recurring revenue buyers love

The Four Essential Business Systems

Mike identifies four core systems separating thriving businesses from struggling ones:

System 1: Marketing, specifically problem-solution video marketing that documents real problems and solutions. Mike's YouTube videos continue helping customers years later.

System 2: Two-minute speed-to-lead response time makes customers 50 times more likely to choose you. Requires live weekend coverage and immediate online responses.

System 3: Defined sales process with 30-45 minute Home Comfort Surveys focusing on consultative selling rather than simple “box swaps”.

System 4: Price books and margin management that adjust for true overhead as companies grow.

Competing Against Low-Price Contractors

Mike's philosophy: "Knowledge is power." Educated contractors maintain advantages through financing capabilities, comprehensive discovery, and advanced technology demonstrations using tools like LiDAR and augmented reality.

Key Takeaways

For building better businesses:

• Track the six key metrics regardless of exit plans
• Implement the four essential systems early
• Specialize in heat pumps for operational advantages

For potential exits:

• Build systems that work without owner involvement
• Focus on recurring revenue through maintenance agreements

Timestamps:

[04:15] - Mike’s journey: scaling and selling his HVAC business

[11:49] - Key KPIs Private Equity investors care about.

[20:24] - Importance of maintenance agreements

[28:00] - Four core systems every contractor must build

[32:47] - Why fast response time (speed-to-lead) matters

[38:54] - How to compete against low-price contractors

[42:53] - Educated selling: show, don’t tell

[49:22] - Final thoughts: don’t give away value

Follow Mike Cappuccio

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-cappuccio-97a18a176/ 

Follow Dominate Ductless

• Website: https://dominateductless.com/ 
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Dominateductless/ 
• Twitter: https://x.com/d_ductless 
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/dominate-ductless/ 
• Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@dominateductless 

Follow the Hosts

• Ed Smith: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ed-smith-5aa8716
• Eric Fitz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ehfitz/
• Amply Energy Website: https://www.amply.energy/
• Amply Energy YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@amplyenergy
• Amply Energy Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amplyenergy
• Amply Energy Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amply_energy/

Building the future of heat pump software? We're hiring a software engineer to help contractors measure homes faster and design systems more accurately. Check out our open role. https://info.amply.energy/sr-mobile-engineer-may-2025

Ready to design heat pump systems that actually work? Grab our free manual cold-climate heat pump selection tool — the same systematic approach that helps contractors like Robert get sizing right the first time: https://info.amply.energy/heat-pump-manual-s-free-tool

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When Ross Trethewey calls heat pumps "magic boxes," he's not being hyperbolic. As the founder of TE2 Engineering and building engineer for PBS's This Old House, Ross has spent 15 years designing some of the most sophisticated HVAC systems in North America — from 7,000-square-foot custom homes to 45,000-square-foot compounds.

The Foundation: Design Before Installation, Every Time

Ross's approach starts with proper Manual J, S, and D calculations — something he believes every HVAC contractor should master, not just mechanical engineers. "For any HVAC contractor, they should be well equipped to be able to provide that level of information and run those calculations."

The Future is Air-to-Water

Of all heat pump technologies, Ross is betting big on air-to-water systems. "If I had to pick a horse in the race, 15 years from now, 20 years from now, I think it will be air-to-water."

His reasoning is compelling:

Future-proofing against refrigerant changes. As the industry moves from R-410A to R-32, 454B, and eventually to A3l refrigerants, air-to-water systems keep the refrigerant contained in the outdoor unit.

What Separates the Top 5%

The best HVAC contractors are family-owned businesses with multi-generational thinking, not private equity-owned companies focused on short-term returns.

These top-tier contractors:

-Invest heavily in training. Ross regularly gets out-of-office messages saying entire crews are at air-to-water heat pump training.

-Provide proper tools and support for their technicians.

Episode Timestamps:

[03:56] - Ross’s origin story: 5th-gen plumber to mechanical engineer to TV educator

[13:22] - Benefits of heat pumps vs. conventional systems

[18:48] - Challenges of going 100% heat pump in older homes (no fossil fuel backup)

[32:06] - What’s coming with air-to-water heat pumps to get higher temperature output

[42:46] - Heat recovery and system optimization

[54:11] - What separates top 5% HVAC contractors from the rest

[59:49] - Ross’s top recommended resources and final advice to HVAC pros

Follow Ross Trethewey

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rosstrethewey/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rosstretheweytoh/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rosstrethewey/?hl=en

Twitter: https://x.com/rosstret

Follow This Old House:

Company’s Website: https://www.thisoldhouse.com/

Company’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ThisOldHouse

Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/this-old-house-ventures/

Company’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thisoldhouse/

Company’s Twitter: https://x.com/ThisOldHouse

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/thisoldhouse

Follow TE2 Engineering:

Company’s Website: https://te2engineering.com/

Company’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TE2engineering/?ref=br_rs

Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/te2-engineering-llc./

Company’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/te2engineering/

Company’s Twitter: https://x.com/te2engineering

Company’s youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist

Follow the Hosts:

Ed Smith: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ed-smith-5aa8716

Eric Fitz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ehfitz/

Amply Energy Website: https://www.amply.energy/

Amply Energy YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@amplyenergy

Amply Energy Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amplyenergy

Amply Energy Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amply_energy/

Want to build the future of heat pump software? We're hiring a software engineer! Check out our open role. https://info.amply.energy/sr-mobile-engineer-may-2025

Ready to design heat pump systems that really work? Grab our free manual S cold-climate heat pump selection tool—the same systematic approach that helps contractors like Robert get sizing right the first time: https://info.amply.energy/heat-pump-manual-s-free-tool

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Most successful heat pump contractors simplify ruthlessly. They pick one thing — e.g., ductless installs, etc — and execute flawlessly. It's a proven path to profitability that we've seen work again and again.

Robert Hamerly took the opposite approach. And amazingly, it's working brilliantly.

The CEO of GreenSavers has built a 70-person operation across Oregon that tackles everything from heat pumps and insulation to seismic retrofits and EV chargers. His mission? Turn homes from financial liabilities into energy-positive assets that produce enough power to cover transportation needs.

It sounds chaotic. It probably should be chaotic. But Robert's contrarian bet on complexity reveals something fascinating about building a business around truly solving customer problems.

The Problem with Simple Solutions

"If we could change our mission, we could adopt a simpler framework," Robert admits. "But if we are pursuing this mission of buildings that are beyond net zero, it's hard for us to figure out a different way to come at it."

Here's the thing: Robert discovered that you can't install an effective heat pump system in a house with uninsulated walls and leaky ducts. You can tell customers to call someone else for that work, but then you're handing off leads you worked hard to generate.

So GreenSavers learned to handle the entire sequence. Envelope first, then mechanical systems, then electrical upgrades, then solar. Each service emerged organically from customer needs, not from a business plan.

The result? Homes that actually hit net-zero or better. Transportation included.

When Macro Forces Attack

Robert's biggest concerns: tariffs that could spike heat pump costs 145%, utility rate increases that change project economics overnight, and infrastructure costs getting passed to residential customers to subsidize AI data centers.

"How do you plan when you put all this time and energy into a certain kind of product, and then that one product gets a 145% tariff applied to it?" he asks. "All the planning you've done goes out the window."

Timestamps

[00:00] - Homes as assets: the GreenSavers vision

[03:53] - Evolving from energy audits to whole-home electrification

[06:33] - Robert’s origin story: hay bale homes and cold Vermont winters

[19:25] - Sales strategy shifts based on political geography

[26:08] - How did Robert manage the complexity of the business?

[35:37] - Internal training and onboarding at GreenSavers

[40:10] - What keeps Robert up at night? Uncontrollable macro trends

Follow the Guest & the Company:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-hamerly-2ab87aa/

Company’s Website: https://greensavers.com/

Company’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GreenSaversUSA#

Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/greensavers-usa/

Company’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/greensavers/#

Company’s Twitter: https://x.com/GreenSaversUSA

Follow the Hosts:

Ed Smith: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ed-smith-5aa8716

Eric Fitz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ehfitz/

Amply Energy Website: https://www.amply.energy/

Amply Energy YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@amplyenergy

Amply Energy Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amplyenergy

Amply Energy Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amply_energy/