The Holly Pivec Podcast

Was Alisa Childers right to warn people about Josh Howerton and Josh McPherson’s teachings on church leadership? By the time you finish listening to this episode, you’ll not only know whether Alisa’s warning was justified, but you’ll also learn 3 specific markers of dangerous, apostle-style church governance—even when pastors don't explicitly use the word "apostle."

📌 Episode OverviewIn this episode, we break down the online debate that erupted after Alisa Childers shared a clip from the Resurge podcast, hosted by Josh Howerton (Lakepointe Church) and Josh McPherson (Grace City Church / Stronger Man Nation).

While defenders accuse Alisa of slander, misrepresentation, and "barking up the wrong tree," a closer look at Howerton and McPherson's statements reveals a deeply concerning shift toward New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)-style top-down governance.

Drawing on over two decades of research into the NAR movement and co-authoring four books on the topic, I walk through the original podcast, address recent rebuttals, analyze Howerton's statements on "convening apostles," and show why Alisa’s warnings are fully warranted.

🔑 Key Takeaways & Discussion PointsThe 3 Markers of NAR Governance in the Church:

• 1. The Role of the Senior Pastor: How viewing the lead pastor as the uniquely "anointed" man at the top mirrors NAR apostolic authority.

  2. The Demotion of Elder Boards: Moving away from biblical team oversight and shepherding toward military-style chain-of-command structures ("lieutenants" vs. "privates").

  3. The "Wartime Church" Rationale: Using societal or spiritual culture wars to justify stripping checks and balances and demanding undivided authority.

• CEO Model vs. NAR Governance: Why their statements go far beyond a standard corporate structure and tap into dangerous spiritual dynamics.

• Evaluating the Rebuttals: Analyzing Howerton’s Instagram statements, his definition of "little-a" / "convening" apostles, and his recent podcasts.

• Culture & Response: What the aggressive backlash, shaming, and hand-waving against Alisa Childers reveal about top-down authoritarian church structures.

💬 Join the Conversation

Have you encountered these top-down or "wartime" leadership dynamics in your own church background? Do you think elder boards should retain a shepherding and accountability role?

Can Christians in a spiritually mismatched marriage preserve their union while keeping a clear conscience before God?

In this episode, Holly explores the tension that occurs in marriages when one spouse is part of the New Apostolic Reformation and the other is not.

She unpacks what a "spiritual mismatch" is through 1 Corinthians 7, where Paul instructs believers who are married to an unbeliever, and she shows how his advice can also apply to those believers who are married to someone in NAR. She also examines conscience and authority through Acts 5:29 and the examples of Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego, and Daniel, concluding that obedience to God comes before human authority, and that marriage vows never require participating in false teaching.

In this episode, you'll learn:

* What a spiritual mismatch is and its implications in a marriage.

* What to do if you are in a mismatched marriage, based on 1 Corinthians 7:12-16 and Acts 5:29.

* How Acts 5:29 warns against joining others in disobedience to God.

* How to handle the tough issues arising from a spiritually mismatched marriage.

* The importance of keeping your conscience clean before God.

Have you or someone you love ever faced a spiritually mismatched marriage? Tell us about it in the comments.

Resources & Links:

Join Holly's Substack Book Club: https://hollypivec.substack.com

Read more about NAR tactics in Holly's co-authored book, Counterfeit Kingdom: https://a.co/d/08kKR5j9

#christianpodcasting #NAR #christianmarriage #falseteachers

Doctrinal soundness, quite simply, is not enough. A church can be biblically sound and still be led by unaccountable, unhealthy leadership.

In this episode, Holly breaks down three fundamental characteristics of healthy leadership, highlighting the importance of accountability, transparency, and character traits drawn from 1 Timothy 3:1–7 and Titus 1:5–9. These passages show us how to discern whether a church's leadership is actually healthy beyond biblical soundness.

In this episode, you'll learn:

- Why "doctrinally sound" doesn't necessarily mean "safe"

- The pervasive reality of "paper elders" who do not hold the senior pastor accountable

- What 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 actually require of elders

- Why governing bylaws are essential (and how they are often neglected)

- The authoritarianism test: Do your leaders truly welcome questions?

Resources & Links:

Join Holly's Substack Book Club: https://hollypivec.substack.com

Read more about NAR tactics in Holly's co-authored book, Counterfeit Kingdom: https://a.co/d/08kKR5j9

Have you ever experienced "paper elder" leadership: strong in theory, but impotent in practice? Tell us in the comments.

#christianpodcasting #NAR #healthytheology #apologetics #falseteachers

How do you know if a church is actually solid? In this episode, Holly breaks down what to look for: biblically sound teaching and healthy leadership, not perfection.

She walks through the warning signs of deviant doctrines like the "prosperity gospel" and NAR teachings, and shares a practical filter for reading a church's statement of faith. Does it show real reverence for Scripture? Are there red flags pointing to NAR influence?

For anyone struggling to find a biblically sound community, Holly offers practical advice. And for those already rooted in a good church, the call is to dig in and serve, not just sit back

In this episode, you’ll learn:

* What Makes a Church Biblically Sound

* A Mature Believer’s Role

* Denominational Flexibility & the Importance of Fellowship

* Why You Should Evaluate Teachings & Statements of Faith

Resources & Links:

Join Holly’s Substack Book Club: hollypivec.substack.com

Read more about NAR tactics in Holly’s book, Counterfeit Kingdom: https://a.co/d/08kKR5j9

#NAR #KathrynKrick #Discernment #FalseTeachers #Apologetics

Kathryn Krick, the 35-year-old lead pastor of 5F Church in Los Angeles, has gone viral for her dramatic deliverance services, theatrical style, and followers laying gifts at her feet. But while critics label her a "cult leader," many are missing a much bigger threat. In this episode, Holly reveals the critical mistake people make when evaluating flashy figures like Krick: assuming the danger is limited to sensational performers. Behind Krick’s viral clips is a core doctrine standard across the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)—the "Fivefold Ministry." Holly breaks down how NAR teachings, apostolic authority, and coded language like "Mama" and "Papa" are being promoted by soft-spoken, seemingly balanced pastors in local churches nationwide.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

* Why Katherine Krick’s viral book-signing and 5F Church reflect standard NAR doctrine.

* What the "Fivefold Ministry" doctrine actually teaches—and how Ephesians 4:11 is taken out of context.

* The hidden meaning behind titles like "Mama," "Papa," and laying gifts at a leader's feet.

* Why "subtle" NAR churches can be even more dangerous than high-profile, theatrical leaders.

Resources & Links:

Join Holly’s Substack Book Club: hollypivec.substack.com

Read more about NAR tactics in Holly’s book, Counterfeit Kingdom: https://a.co/d/08kKR5j9

#NAR #KathrynKrick #Discernment #FalseTeachers #Apologetics

In this special "On My Radar," episode, I dive into key issues surrounding the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) and why biblical discernment is more urgent than ever.

I address a commonly asked question: Are prosperity gospel teachings connected with NAR? From there, I discuss recent revelations surrounding Brian Simmons and The Passion Translation, asking why it often takes plagiarism allegations or public scandals for eyes to open, when false teaching should be tested against Scripture first.

Drawing from Acts 17:11 and Revelation 2, I show what true Berean discernment looks like—and why Christians must test claims, prophecies, and leaders against God's Word before major harm is done.

TIMESTAMPS

Prosperity Gospel and the NAR Movement Connection - 0:00

Prosperity Gospel in NAR Churches - 4:39

The Passion Translation and NAR Influence - 6:31

Historical Warnings about TPT and Current Realizations - 9:41

Encouragement for Biblical Discernment - 13:43

Join Holly's Substack community for more on discernment and the New Apostolic Reformation: https://substack.com/@hollypivec

Have these false doctrines affected your walk with Christ? If so, how?

Let us know in the comments 🙌

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#ProsperityGospel #NewApostolicReformation #BiblicalDiscernment #FalseTeachings #ChristianApologetics

We Left the Mission Field: The Reality of "Beyond" and the Theological Drift in Modern Missions

Why would an ethusiastic, committed missionary couple walk away from their life’s work? In this deep-dive, two-part interview, Aaron and Chelsea Hunter share their jarring experience with the missions organization "Beyond." They reveal how the pressures to "hear God's voice" and document numerical growth have led to a "Jesus Hermeneutic" that replaces sound doctrine with subjective impressions, and why they believe these "Church Planting Movements" are hindering the gospel and world missions.

Watch to discover:

The perceived tension between "theological purity" vs. "reaching the nations."

A first-hand account of when "Discovery Bible Studies" bypass God's objective Word in Scripture.

The dangers of "Listening Prayer" and New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) influence on the mission field.

Advice for churches and aspiring missionaries on how to select sound missions organizations to partner with.

 CHAPTERS:

00:00 Introduction to the Hunters' Missionary Journey

03:13 Understanding Beyond: The Organization's Role in Missions

06:01 Concerns Arising: The Influence of YWAM

08:53 "Hearing God's Voice": The Central Pillar of Beyond

12:12 The Dynamics of Listening Prayer

14:55 The Pressure of "Obedience": A Burden on Missionaries

17:46 The Harmful Impact of Listening Prayer on Missionaries' Relationships with God

21:03 The Unbiblical Role of Listening Prayer in Decision-Making

23:55 The Process of Listening Prayer: Steps and Practices

27:11 Urgency in Missions: The 2025 Goal

29:51 The Dangers of Presuming God's Voice and Prophecy

41:51 Testing Divine Revelation and Insufficient Criteria

46:56 Hyper-Spiritualization: Leaving No Room for Simple Encouragement

50:54 Prayer Declarations and Their Influence

54:08 Strategic-Level Spiritual Warfare: Understanding Strongholds

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

Nine Marks: https://www.9marks.org/ (Resources on biblical missions)

ABOUT THIS PODCAST:

The goal of this conversation is not to discourage missions, but to call the church back to a foundation of sound theology and biblical integrity. We believe that true "success" in missions is measured by faithfulness to God's Word in Scripture, not the pursuit of "hearing God's voice" outside of Scripture or rapid multiplication.

#Missions #Beyond #ChurchPlanting #Theology #Christianity #Discernment #Gospel #BibleStudy

How to grow in discernment and not turn cynical? In this episode, Holly shares the subtle line between spotting doctrinal error in the church and not trusting anyone or anything. While this may sound troublesome, she shares her personal experience and growth through three things that have kept her from going down that road, drawing from the church at Ephesus in Revelation 2 and Elijah's meltdown in the cave in 1 Kings.

0:08 Why Discernment Can Tip Into Cynicism

4:38 We're All at Different Places in Our Walk

9:13 Don't Only Focus on the False

13:51 Fill Your Mind With What's True and Good

18:33 Finding Your People (and Why It Matters)

20:00 A Final Word from Galatians 6:9

Join Holly's Substack community for more on discernment and the New Apostolic Reformation: https://substack.com/@hollypivec?r=1rh7cc&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=stories&shareImageVariant=blur

What's helped you stay non-cynical? Let us know in the comments. 🙏

#SpiritualDiscernment #Cynicism #Theology #FalseTeachings #ChristianLife #Discernment

Can certain so-called "Christian" teachings contribute to anxiety, depression, and feelings of failure?

In this conversation, biblical counselor Mark Baker explains how negative narratives, perfectionism, performance-based thinking, and false teachings can deeply impact our mental health. He also shares practical tools for identifying harmful thought patterns, finding hope in the midst of depression, and learning to trust God.

0:00 Negative Narratives and Mental Health

3:10 The Danger of Self-Condemnation

5:50 Why Perfectionism Fuels Depression

8:00 Practical Steps for Anxiety and Depression

10:20 How False Teaching Creates Pressure and Fear

12:00 The Link Between Depression and Hopelessness

15:00 One Question to Ask When You're Depressed

17:20 Where Are You Struggling to Trust God?

19:10 Using Scripture to Renew Your Mind

21:00 Why Bible Verses Aren't Magic Formulas

23:00 Final Encouragement

Check out Mark Baker's book Re-Minded: https://amzn.to/4dXP4iP

See his other resources here: https://www.hopeforlifeonline.com/

Let us know your thoughts in the comments below!

#SpiritualDiscernment #MentalHealth #Theology #FalseTeachings #ChristianMentalHealth #Discernment

Is your mental health suffering because of bad theology? Discover how growing in spiritual discernment can free you from the anxiety, guilt, and emotional damage caused by false teachings.

Many modern Christians are caught in a cycle of subtle shaming, false hope, and spiritual burnout. In this video, we break down why true biblical discernment is actually your greatest mental defense mechanism and a true faith builder.

Learn how to spot "wolves in sheep's clothing," develop a healthy theology of suffering, and guard your mind against counterfeit spirituality.

00:00 - What is biblical discernment?

01:05 - The 3 faculties of the mind

02:13 - The "gymnasium" of the mind

03:16 - Exposing mysticism and false teachings

04:32 - How bad theology hurts mental health

05:18 - The danger of fake revivals

06:35 - True love warns people

08:21 - Social media scrolling vs. mental peace

09:57 - Why NAR theology causes anxiety

12:22 - Spiritual abuse and "shame-bombing"

14:31 - Judging leaders by their fruit

15:38 - Developing a theology of suffering

17:52 - How God uses hardship to train us

20:16 - Rejecting the "quick-fix" gospel

21:55 - Overcoming negative narratives

If you want to grow deep in the Word and learn to guard your mind, make sure to subscribe and hit the notification bell!

Check out Mark Baker's book Re-Minded: https://amzn.to/4dXP4iP

Have you ever experienced spiritual "shame-bombing" or struggled with a "quick-fix" theology? Let us know your thoughts in the comments below!

#SpiritualDiscernment #MentalHealth #BiblicalTheology #FalseTeachings #ChristianMentalHealth #Discernment #Hebrews514