Was Alisa Childers right to warn people about Josh Howerton and Josh McPherson’s teachings on church leadership? By the time you finish listening to this episode, you’ll not only know whether Alisa’s warning was justified, but you’ll also learn 3 specific markers of dangerous, apostle-style church governance—even when pastors don't explicitly use the word "apostle."📌 Episode OverviewIn this episode, we break down the online debate that erupted after Alisa Childers shared a clip from the Resurge podcast, hosted by Josh Howerton (Lakepointe Church) and Josh McPherson (Grace City Church / Stronger Man Nation).While defenders accuse Alisa of slander, misrepresentation, and "barking up the wrong tree," a closer look at Howerton and McPherson's statements reveals a deeply concerning shift toward New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)-style top-down governance.Drawing on over two decades of research into the NAR movement and co-authoring four books on the topic, I walk through the original podcast, address recent rebuttals, analyze Howerton's statements on "convening apostles," and show why Alisa’s warnings are fully warranted.🔑 Key Takeaways & Discussion PointsThe 3 Markers of NAR Governance in the Church:<ul><li><ol><li>The Role of the Senior Pastor: How viewing the lead pastor as the uniquely "anointed" man at the top mirrors NAR apostolic authority.</li><li>The Demotion of Elder Boards: Moving away from biblical team oversight and shepherding toward military-style chain-of-command structures ("lieutenants" vs. "privates").</li><li>The "Wartime Church" Rationale: Using societal or spiritual culture wars to justify stripping checks and balances and demanding undivided authority.</li></ol></li><li>CEO Model vs. NAR Governance: Why their statements go far beyond a standard corporate structure and tap into dangerous spiritual dynamics.</li><li>Evaluating the Rebuttals: Analyzing Howerton’s Instagram statements, his definition of "little-a" / "convening" apostles, and his recent podcasts.</li><li>Culture & Response: What the aggressive backlash, shaming, and hand-waving against Alisa Childers reveal about top-down authoritarian church structures.</li></ul>💬 Join the ConversationHave you encountered these top-down or "wartime" leadership dynamics in your own church background? Do you think elder boards should retain a shepherding and accountability role?

Was Alisa Childers right to warn people about Josh Howerton and Josh McPherson’s teachings on church leadership? By the time you finish listening to this episode, you’ll not only know whether Alisa’s warning was justified, but you’ll also learn 3 specific markers of dangerous, apostle-style church governance—even when pastors don't explicitly use the word "apostle." 📌 Episode OverviewIn this episode, we break down the online debate that erupted after Alisa Childers shared a clip from the Resurge podcast, hosted by Josh Howerton (Lakepointe Church) and Josh McPherson (Grace City Church / Stronger Man Nation). While defenders accuse Alisa of slander, misrepresentation, and "barking up the wrong tree," a closer look at Howerton and McPherson's statements reveals a deeply concerning shift toward New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)-style top-down governance. Drawing on over two decades of research into the NAR movement and co-authoring four books on the topic, I walk through the original podcast, address recent rebuttals, analyze Howerton's statements on "convening apostles," and show why Alisa’s warnings are fully warranted. 🔑 Key Takeaways & Discussion PointsThe 3 Markers of NAR Governance in the Church:The Role of the Senior Pastor: How viewing the lead pastor as the uniquely "anointed" man at the top mirrors NAR apostolic authority.The Demotion of Elder Boards: Moving away from biblical team oversight and shepherding toward military-style chain-of-command structures ("lieutenants" vs. "privates").The "Wartime Church" Rationale: Using societal or spiritual culture wars to justify stripping checks and balances and demanding undivided authority.CEO Model vs. NAR Governance: Why their statements go far beyond a standard corporate structure and tap into dangerous spiritual dynamics.Evaluating the Rebuttals: Analyzing Howerton’s Instagram statements, his definition of "little-a" / "convening" apostles, and his recent podcasts.Culture & Response: What the aggressive backlash, shaming, and hand-waving against Alisa Childers reveal about top-down authoritarian church structures.💬 Join the Conversation Have you encountered these top-down or "wartime" leadership dynamics in your own church background? Do you think elder boards should retain a shepherding and accountability role?

Was Alisa Childers right to warn people about Josh Howerton and Josh McPherson’s teachings on church leadership? By the time you finish listening to this episode, you’ll not only know whether Alisa’s warning was justified, but you’ll also learn 3 specific markers of dangerous, apostle-style church governance—even when pastors don't explicitly use the word "apostle."📌 Episode OverviewIn this episode, we break down the online debate that erupted after Alisa Childers shared a clip from the Resurge podcast, hosted by Josh Howerton (Lakepointe Church) and Josh McPherson (Grace City Church / Stronger Man Nation).While defenders accuse Alisa of slander, misrepresentation, and "barking up the wrong tree," a closer look at Howerton and McPherson's statements reveals a deeply concerning shift toward New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)-style top-down governance.Drawing on over two decades of research into the NAR movement and co-authoring four books on the topic, I walk through the original podcast, address recent rebuttals, analyze Howerton's statements on "convening apostles," and show why Alisa’s warnings are fully warranted.🔑 Key Takeaways &amp; Discussion PointsThe 3 Markers of NAR Governance in the Church:<ul><li><ol><li>The Role of the Senior Pastor: How viewing the lead pastor as the uniquely "anointed" man at the top mirrors NAR apostolic authority.</li><li>The Demotion of Elder Boards: Moving away from biblical team oversight and shepherding toward military-style chain-of-command structures ("lieutenants" vs. "privates").</li><li>The "Wartime Church" Rationale: Using societal or spiritual culture wars to justify stripping checks and balances and demanding undivided authority.</li></ol></li><li>CEO Model vs. NAR Governance: Why their statements go far beyond a standard corporate structure and tap into dangerous spiritual dynamics.</li><li>Evaluating the Rebuttals: Analyzing Howerton’s Instagram statements, his definition of "little-a" / "convening" apostles, and his recent podcasts.</li><li>Culture &amp; Response: What the aggressive backlash, shaming, and hand-waving against Alisa Childers reveal about top-down authoritarian church structures.</li></ul>💬 Join the ConversationHave you encountered these top-down or "wartime" leadership dynamics in your own church background? Do you think elder boards should retain a shepherding and accountability role?

EP 42 | Was Alisa Childers Right About Josh Howerton & Josh McPherson? (3 Markers of NAR Governance)

Kathryn Krick, the 35-year-old lead pastor of 5F Church in Los Angeles, has gone viral for her dramatic deliverance services, theatrical style, and followers laying gifts at her feet. But while critics label her a "cult leader," many are missing a much bigger threat. In this episode, Holly reveals the critical mistake people make when evaluating flashy figures like Krick: assuming the danger is limited to sensational performers. Behind Krick’s viral clips is a core doctrine standard across the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)—the "Fivefold Ministry." Holly breaks down how NAR teachings, apostolic authority, and coded language like "Mama" and "Papa" are being promoted by soft-spoken, seemingly balanced pastors in local churches nationwide. In this episode, you’ll learn: * Why Katherine Krick’s viral book-signing and 5F Church reflect standard NAR doctrine.* What the "Fivefold Ministry" doctrine actually teaches—and how Ephesians 4:11 is taken out of context.* The hidden meaning behind titles like "Mama," "Papa," and laying gifts at a leader's feet.* Why "subtle" NAR churches can be even more dangerous than high-profile, theatrical leaders. Resources & Links: Join Holly’s Substack Book Club: hollypivec.substack.com Read more about NAR tactics in Holly’s book, Counterfeit Kingdom: https://a.co/d/08kKR5j9 #NAR #KathrynKrick #Discernment #FalseTeachers #Apologetics

Kathryn Krick, the 35-year-old lead pastor of 5F Church in Los Angeles, has gone viral for her dramatic deliverance services, theatrical style, and followers laying gifts at her feet. But while critics label her a "cult leader," many are missing a much bigger threat. In this episode, Holly reveals the critical mistake people make when evaluating flashy figures like Krick: assuming the danger is limited to sensational performers. Behind Krick’s viral clips is a core doctrine standard across the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)—the "Fivefold Ministry." Holly breaks down how NAR teachings, apostolic authority, and coded language like "Mama" and "Papa" are being promoted by soft-spoken, seemingly balanced pastors in local churches nationwide. In this episode, you’ll learn: * Why Katherine Krick’s viral book-signing and 5F Church reflect standard NAR doctrine. * What the "Fivefold Ministry" doctrine actually teaches—and how Ephesians 4:11 is taken out of context. * The hidden meaning behind titles like "Mama," "Papa," and laying gifts at a leader's feet. * Why "subtle" NAR churches can be even more dangerous than high-profile, theatrical leaders. Resources & Links: Join Holly’s Substack Book Club: hollypivec.substack.com Read more about NAR tactics in Holly’s book, Counterfeit Kingdom: https://a.co/d/08kKR5j9 #NAR #KathrynKrick #Discernment #FalseTeachers #Apologetics

Kathryn Krick, the 35-year-old lead pastor of 5F Church in Los Angeles, has gone viral for her dramatic deliverance services, theatrical style, and followers laying gifts at her feet. But while critics label her a "cult leader," many are missing a much bigger threat. In this episode, Holly reveals the critical mistake people make when evaluating flashy figures like Krick: assuming the danger is limited to sensational performers. Behind Krick’s viral clips is a core doctrine standard across the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)—the "Fivefold Ministry." Holly breaks down how NAR teachings, apostolic authority, and coded language like "Mama" and "Papa" are being promoted by soft-spoken, seemingly balanced pastors in local churches nationwide. In this episode, you’ll learn: * Why Katherine Krick’s viral book-signing and 5F Church reflect standard NAR doctrine.* What the "Fivefold Ministry" doctrine actually teaches—and how Ephesians 4:11 is taken out of context.* The hidden meaning behind titles like "Mama," "Papa," and laying gifts at a leader's feet.* Why "subtle" NAR churches can be even more dangerous than high-profile, theatrical leaders. Resources &amp; Links: Join Holly’s Substack Book Club: hollypivec.substack.com Read more about NAR tactics in Holly’s book, Counterfeit Kingdom: https://a.co/d/08kKR5j9 #NAR #KathrynKrick #Discernment #FalseTeachers #Apologetics

EP 38 | Beyond Kathryn Krick: The Hidden Danger of "Subtle" NAR Teachings

Doctrinal soundness, quite simply, is not enough. A church can be biblically sound and still be led by unaccountable, unhealthy leadership. In this episode, Holly breaks down three fundamental characteristics of healthy leadership, highlighting the importance of accountability, transparency, and character traits drawn from 1 Timothy 3:1–7 and Titus 1:5–9. These passages show us how to discern whether a church's leadership is actually healthy beyond biblical soundness. In this episode, you'll learn: - Why "doctrinally sound" doesn't necessarily mean "safe"- The pervasive reality of "paper elders" who do not hold the senior pastor accountable- What 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 actually require of elders- Why governing bylaws are essential (and how they are often neglected)- The authoritarianism test: Do your leaders truly welcome questions? Resources & Links:Join Holly's Substack Book Club: https://hollypivec.substack.comRead more about NAR tactics in Holly's co-authored book, Counterfeit Kingdom: https://a.co/d/08kKR5j9 Have you ever experienced "paper elder" leadership: strong in theory, but impotent in practice? Tell us in the comments. #christianpodcasting #NAR #healthytheology #apologetics #falseteachers

Doctrinal soundness, quite simply, is not enough. A church can be biblically sound and still be led by unaccountable, unhealthy leadership. In this episode, Holly breaks down three fundamental characteristics of healthy leadership, highlighting the importance of accountability, transparency, and character traits drawn from 1 Timothy 3:1–7 and Titus 1:5–9. These passages show us how to discern whether a church's leadership is actually healthy beyond biblical soundness. In this episode, you'll learn: - Why "doctrinally sound" doesn't necessarily mean "safe" - The pervasive reality of "paper elders" who do not hold the senior pastor accountable - What 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 actually require of elders - Why governing bylaws are essential (and how they are often neglected) - The authoritarianism test: Do your leaders truly welcome questions? Resources & Links: Join Holly's Substack Book Club: https://hollypivec.substack.com Read more about NAR tactics in Holly's co-authored book, Counterfeit Kingdom: https://a.co/d/08kKR5j9 Have you ever experienced "paper elder" leadership: strong in theory, but impotent in practice? Tell us in the comments. #christianpodcasting #NAR #healthytheology #apologetics #falseteachers

Doctrinal soundness, quite simply, is not enough. A church can be biblically sound and still be led by unaccountable, unhealthy leadership. In this episode, Holly breaks down three fundamental characteristics of healthy leadership, highlighting the importance of accountability, transparency, and character traits drawn from 1 Timothy 3:1–7 and Titus 1:5–9. These passages show us how to discern whether a church's leadership is actually healthy beyond biblical soundness. In this episode, you'll learn: - Why "doctrinally sound" doesn't necessarily mean "safe"- The pervasive reality of "paper elders" who do not hold the senior pastor accountable- What 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 actually require of elders- Why governing bylaws are essential (and how they are often neglected)- The authoritarianism test: Do your leaders truly welcome questions? Resources &amp; Links:Join Holly's Substack Book Club: https://hollypivec.substack.comRead more about NAR tactics in Holly's co-authored book, Counterfeit Kingdom: https://a.co/d/08kKR5j9 Have you ever experienced "paper elder" leadership: strong in theory, but impotent in practice? Tell us in the comments. #christianpodcasting #NAR #healthytheology #apologetics #falseteachers

EP 40 | Is Your Church Leadership Actually Healthy? 3 Revealing Signs

How do you know if a church is actually solid? In this episode, Holly breaks down what to look for: biblically sound teaching and healthy leadership, not perfection. She walks through the warning signs of deviant doctrines like the "prosperity gospel" and NAR teachings, and shares a practical filter for reading a church's statement of faith. Does it show real reverence for Scripture? Are there red flags pointing to NAR influence? For anyone struggling to find a biblically sound community, Holly offers practical advice. And for those already rooted in a good church, the call is to dig in and serve, not just sit back In this episode, you’ll learn: * What Makes a Church Biblically Sound* A Mature Believer’s Role* Denominational Flexibility & the Importance of Fellowship* Why You Should Evaluate Teachings & Statements of Faith Resources & Links: Join Holly’s Substack Book Club: hollypivec.substack.com Read more about NAR tactics in Holly’s book, Counterfeit Kingdom: https://a.co/d/08kKR5j9 #NAR #KathrynKrick #Discernment #FalseTeachers #Apologetics

How do you know if a church is actually solid? In this episode, Holly breaks down what to look for: biblically sound teaching and healthy leadership, not perfection. She walks through the warning signs of deviant doctrines like the "prosperity gospel" and NAR teachings, and shares a practical filter for reading a church's statement of faith. Does it show real reverence for Scripture? Are there red flags pointing to NAR influence? For anyone struggling to find a biblically sound community, Holly offers practical advice. And for those already rooted in a good church, the call is to dig in and serve, not just sit back In this episode, you’ll learn: * What Makes a Church Biblically Sound * A Mature Believer’s Role * Denominational Flexibility & the Importance of Fellowship * Why You Should Evaluate Teachings & Statements of Faith Resources & Links: Join Holly’s Substack Book Club: hollypivec.substack.com Read more about NAR tactics in Holly’s book, Counterfeit Kingdom: https://a.co/d/08kKR5j9 #NAR #KathrynKrick #Discernment #FalseTeachers #Apologetics

How do you know if a church is actually solid? In this episode, Holly breaks down what to look for: biblically sound teaching and healthy leadership, not perfection. She walks through the warning signs of deviant doctrines like the "prosperity gospel" and NAR teachings, and shares a practical filter for reading a church's statement of faith. Does it show real reverence for Scripture? Are there red flags pointing to NAR influence? For anyone struggling to find a biblically sound community, Holly offers practical advice. And for those already rooted in a good church, the call is to dig in and serve, not just sit back In this episode, you’ll learn: * What Makes a Church Biblically Sound* A Mature Believer’s Role* Denominational Flexibility &amp; the Importance of Fellowship* Why You Should Evaluate Teachings &amp; Statements of Faith Resources &amp; Links: Join Holly’s Substack Book Club: hollypivec.substack.com Read more about NAR tactics in Holly’s book, Counterfeit Kingdom: https://a.co/d/08kKR5j9 #NAR #KathrynKrick #Discernment #FalseTeachers #Apologetics

EP 39 | How to Find a Biblically Sound Church (Without Chasing Perfection)

In this special "On My Radar," episode, I dive into key issues surrounding the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) and why biblical discernment is more urgent than ever. I address a commonly asked question: Are prosperity gospel teachings connected with NAR? From there, I discuss recent revelations surrounding Brian Simmons and The Passion Translation, asking why it often takes plagiarism allegations or public scandals for eyes to open, when false teaching should be tested against Scripture first. Drawing from Acts 17:11 and Revelation 2, I show what true Berean discernment looks like—and why Christians must test claims, prophecies, and leaders against God's Word before major harm is done. TIMESTAMPSProsperity Gospel and the NAR Movement Connection - 0:00Prosperity Gospel in NAR Churches - 4:39The Passion Translation and NAR Influence - 6:31Historical Warnings about TPT and Current Realizations - 9:41Encouragement for Biblical Discernment - 13:43 Join Holly's Substack community for more on discernment and the New Apostolic Reformation: https://substack.com/@hollypivec Have these false doctrines affected your walk with Christ? If so, how? Let us know in the comments 🙌79bbtgqc'79bbtgqc'#ProsperityGospel #NewApostolicReformation #BiblicalDiscernment #FalseTeachings #ChristianApologetics

In this special "On My Radar," episode, I dive into key issues surrounding the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) and why biblical discernment is more urgent than ever. I address a commonly asked question: Are prosperity gospel teachings connected with NAR? From there, I discuss recent revelations surrounding Brian Simmons and The Passion Translation, asking why it often takes plagiarism allegations or public scandals for eyes to open, when false teaching should be tested against Scripture first. Drawing from Acts 17:11 and Revelation 2, I show what true Berean discernment looks like—and why Christians must test claims, prophecies, and leaders against God's Word before major harm is done. TIMESTAMPS Prosperity Gospel and the NAR Movement Connection - 0:00 Prosperity Gospel in NAR Churches - 4:39 The Passion Translation and NAR Influence - 6:31 Historical Warnings about TPT and Current Realizations - 9:41 Encouragement for Biblical Discernment - 13:43 Join Holly's Substack community for more on discernment and the New Apostolic Reformation: https://substack.com/@hollypivec Have these false doctrines affected your walk with Christ? If so, how? Let us know in the comments 🙌 79bbtgqc'79bbtgqc' #ProsperityGospel #NewApostolicReformation #BiblicalDiscernment #FalseTeachings #ChristianApologetics

EP 37 | Why Did It Take Plagiarism to Expose The Passion Translation?

Many Christians are unknowingly embracing dangerous teachings that distort the gospel. In this episode, I expose the deceptive tactics of self-proclaimed apostles and prophets, showing how their influence is creeping into churches today. I’ll help you recognize the red flags, understand what’s truly biblical, and protect yourself and your loved ones from spiritual deception. Don’t be misled—let’s talk about what’s really happening.

Many Christians are unknowingly embracing dangerous teachings that distort the gospel. In this episode, I expose the deceptive tactics of self-proclaimed apostles and prophets, showing how their influence is creeping into churches today. I’ll help you recognize the red flags, understand what’s truly biblical, and protect yourself and your loved ones from spiritual deception. Don’t be misled—let’s talk about what’s really happening.

EP03|How to Spot NAR

Catchphrases are everywhere—even in Christian circles. But are they always true? In this episode, we break down some popular Christian catchphrases and reveal how they can sometimes distort biblical truth. Don’t let clever words cloud your discernment!

Catchphrases are everywhere—even in Christian circles. But are they always true? In this episode, we break down some popular Christian catchphrases and reveal how they can sometimes distort biblical truth. Don’t let clever words cloud your discernment!

EP02|Beware Catchprases

Unbiblical, harmful teachings and movements are on the rise, and spiritual discernment is at an all-time low. I started my new podcast to equip you to become more discerning so you can protect yourself and your loved ones from spiritual deception. In this first episode, I explain the two-pronged approach to biblical discernment, which you can use to evaluate sermons, books, podcasts, songs, memes, and more. Get equipped—join me as I dive into this crucial topic.

Unbiblical, harmful teachings and movements are on the rise, and spiritual discernment is at an all-time low. I started my new podcast to equip you to become more discerning so you can protect yourself and your loved ones from spiritual deception. In this first episode, I explain the two-pronged approach to biblical discernment, which you can use to evaluate sermons, books, podcasts, songs, memes, and more. Get equipped—join me as I dive into this crucial topic.

EP01 | Discerning the Cons, Cults and Counterfeits: The Two Prongs of Biblical Discernment

Deception is everywhere, even in the church. So, how can we spot today's cons, cults, and counterfeits? Welcome to The Holly Pivec Podcast, where I teach how to detect and debunk deception and be a careful thinker.
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Religion & Spirituality

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Deception is everywhere, even in the church. So, how can we spot today's cons, cults, and counterfeits? Welcome to The Holly Pivec Podcast, where I teach how to detect and debunk deception and be a careful thinker. Follow me on: Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34DIly5ngf4&list=PLpdZpSd09UDr8PK8tzDkR9xqawLI3D7Ew Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hollypivecauthor Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hollypivec/

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