The Integrated Schools Podcast

White Supremacy and Black Educational Excellence: Hidden Stories of the Integration Movement

The National Coalition for School Diversity serves as the hub of the school integration movement. While their annual conference was postponed due to COVID, the keynote panel was held virtually. A conversation conceived in honor of Integrated Schools founder and former podcast co-host, Courtney, it offers a chance to better understand the history of desegregation so that we might better conceive of how to move forward. A chance to know better, so that we might do better.

Through a conversation facilitated by journalist Dani McClain,Dr. Vanessa Siddle-Walker tells the story of the excellent, robust, and holistic Black schools and educators that our country consciously eliminated in its desegregation efforts. While Dr. Elizabeth McRae recounts the steady work of White supremacist educational politics, most often led by White women, to ensure that Black educational excellence was eroded and replaced by White supremacist policies and pedagogy. Not only did real integration never happen, but the costs of its failure were enormous and last to today.

Courtney was on the NCSD steering committee, and this panel was conceived in her honor. Author Courtney Martin kicks off the conversation by conjuring the memory of Courtney Mykytyn, and Andrew closes things out with a tribute to Courtney and the importance of this work, in this moment.

It’s an important conversation, and we are deeply grateful to everyone involved for allowing us to share it.

LINKS: 

• Elizabeth McRea – Mother’s of Massive Resistance
• Vanessa Siddle-Walker – Their Highest Potential, The Lost Education of Horace Tate
• Dani McClain – We Live for the We
• Courtney Martin – The New Better Off
• The National Coalition for School Diversity
• Video of the full keynote is available here.
• Eula Biss – White Debt
• The NEA
• The Fort Pillow Massacre
• The United Daughters of the Confederacy
• Green v County Board of New Kent County

Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us.

Register for our upcoming bookclub in early December. We’re reading Mia Birdsong’sHow We Show Up.

Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further.

Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – @integratedschls on twitter, IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us [email protected].

We are a proud member of The Connectd Podcast Network.

The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits.

This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits.

Music by Kevin Casey.

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The Reverend, Dr. Jennifer Harvey is a parent, a writer, an educator, and an activist. Her 2018 book Raising White Kids: Bringing Up Children in a Racially Unjust America offers age-appropriate insights for teaching children how to address racism when they encounter it and tackles tough questions about how to help white kids be mindful of racial relations while understanding their own identity and the role they can play for justice.

We discuss the book, but also her personal journey from elementary school, where she was bussed under a court ordered desegregation plan to a predominately Black school, to her time at Union Seminary in New York, studying with the late, great Dr. James Cone. From the power of finding our shared humanity, to liberation we can all find in anti-racism, the importance of moving from thought to action, Dr. Harvey’s insights feel incredibly important in this moment.

LINKS:

• Raising White Kids – Dr. Jennifer Harvey
• A Black Theology of Liberation – Dr. James Cone
• The Cross and the Lynching Tree – Dr. James Cone
• Race Traitor – Noel Ignatiev and John Garvey (a book of essays from the journal of the same name)
• Raising Anti-Racist Kids – ebook by Rebekah Gienapp
• An article about the event hosted in Denver, in 2018
• Video of a workshop led by Dr. Harvey
• Connect with Dr. Harvey on Twitter or Facebook

 

Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us.

Register for our upcoming bookclub in early December. We’re reading Mia Birdsong’sHow We Show Up.

Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further.

Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – @integratedschls on twitter, IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us [email protected].

We are a proud member of The Connectd Podcast Network.

The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits.

This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits.

Music by Kevin Casey.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Last year, leading up the 65th anniversary, we put together a 6 part mini-series called “The Stories We Tell Ourselves – Moving From Desegregation to Integration”. It is in no way a comprehensive history, but hopefully it complicates the stories we tell about Brown v Board. These stories and others about our past desegregation efforts have a huge impact on how we interact with school today, Our hope is that a more honest assessment of the history can be a first step towards real integration.

LINKS:

• Part 1 – With Rucker Johnson, author of Children Of The Dream: Why School Integration Works
• Part 2 – With Noliwe Rooks, author of Cutting School: Privatization, Segregation, and the End of Public Education
• Part 3 – With Amanda Lewis, co-author of Despite The Best Intentions: How Racial Inequality Thrives in Good Schools
• Part 4 – With Civil Rights Attorney, David Hinojosa
• Part 5 – With Greg and Carol
• Part 6 – Grappling with what we’ve learned with Anna.

Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us.

Register for our upcoming bookclub in early December. We’re reading Mia Birdsong’sHow We Show Up.

Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further.

Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – @integratedschls on twitter, IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us [email protected].

We are a proud member of The Connectd Podcast Network.

The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits.

This episode was produced by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits.

Music by Kevin Casey.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Matt Gonzales is an educational justice advocate and Director of the Integration and Innovation Initiative at the NYU Metro Center. We are incredibly fortunate to have him as a member of the Integrated Schools Advisory Board. We had a chance to sit down with Matt this week and talk to him about the implications of COVID-19, what building equity could look like now and in the future, and why anti-racist integration matters now more than ever.

LINKS:

• Grading for Equity Recommendations – inspired by Joe Feldman and his book
• IntegrateNYC with the 5Rs of Real Integration
• Paulo Friere – Author of Pedagogy of the Oppressed
• Django Paris– Author of Culturally Sustaining Pedagogies
• Richard Gray– “Segregation is a generational problem that requires intergenerational solutions”
• This American Life – The Problem We All Live With
• NYC Alliance for School Integration and Desegregation
• Angela Glover Blackwell on the Curb Curt Effect

Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us.

Register for our upcoming bookclub in early December. We’re reading Mia Birdsong’sHow We Show Up.

Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further.

Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – @integratedschls on twitter, IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us [email protected].

We are a proud member of The Connectd Podcast Network.

The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits.

This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits.

Music by Kevin Casey.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Teaching with an equity mindset is a challenge in the best of times, but this crisis has added another layer of challenge to an already daunting task. We’re joined by two high school teachers – Zoe from Philadelphia, and Kara from Minneapolis. They discuss the challenges of moving to online learning while trying to keep equity at the forefront.

We discuss the ways that White and/or privileged parents can be helpful in this moment, and how we might think about what comes when this is all over.

LINKS: 

• For more on Zoe’s school – check out this article.
• To read some of Kara’s reflections on teaching and education, check out EdAllies.

Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us.

Register for our upcoming bookclub in early December. We’re reading Mia Birdsong’sHow We Show Up.

Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further.

Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – @integratedschls on twitter, IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us [email protected].

We are a proud member of The Connectd Podcast Network.

The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits.

This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits.

Music by Kevin Casey.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Given the reality of social distancing, how do we reconcile a desire for educational justice, a drive for anti-racist education, with the fact that we’re stuck at home trying, or maybe not, to educate our kids in vastly inequitable circumstances. This is not a How-To guide, but a conversation about trying to live our values in challenging times. Garrett Bucks joins us, along with Anna, to talk through how we are thinking about this moment, for ourselves, our kids, and our communities. What do we want our kids to remember from this time, and how can we focus our attention, our compassion, and our love outwards, when we are being asked to draw inwards?

LINKS:

• Garrett’s piece –What I hope my (white, economically secure) kids are learning right now
• Garrett’s piece on Courtney’s death – A few thoughts about Courtney Everts Mykytyn
• Garrett’s blog – The White Pages
• If you are able to give in these times, please consider local organizations helping in your communities. Here’s a place to start, if you need it – Grassroots organizations around the country who are helping from Colorlines

 

Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us.

Register for our upcoming bookclub in early December. We’re reading Mia Birdsong’sHow We Show Up.

Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further.

Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – @integratedschls on twitter, IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us [email protected].

We are a proud member of The Connectd Podcast Network.

The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits.

This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits.

Music by Kevin Casey.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

If you listened to The Impacts of Testing Our Kids and Measuring Our Schools (Parts 1 and 2), you heard about some of the issues with using test scores or data aggregators to judge the quality of a school. But if not test scores, then what? Making a choice about school is a privilege, and with that privilege, comes a responsibility. How do you bring your values to that decision, when the information available is so problematic?

We’re joined by two mothers, Dana from Brooklyn and Meredith from Minneapolis, who both have kids entering elementary school next year. They talk about how they are thinking about this choice, given the options available, their values around social and racial justice, and the pressures from their White and/or privileged peers.

Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further.

Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – @integratedschls on twitter, IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us [email protected].

The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits.

This episode was produced edited and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits.

Music by Kevin Casey.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Many local communities are engaged in conversations about how school quality should be determined and how that information should be shared. Those conversations take place in the shadow of GreatSchools.org – who provides a 1-10 rating for nearly every public school in the country. These ratings have a major impact on everything from curriculum to housing prices.

Matt Barnum (Chalkbeat) wrote about the ways GreatSchools ratings can nudge families towards schools with fewer Black and Brown students. He joins us to discuss his reporting as well as what current education research can tell us about just how malleable people are when it comes to making choices about schools.

We’re also joined by Ali, the leader of the Seattle Chapter of Integrated Schools, and the author of our most widely read blog post, The Problem with GreatSchools. We grapple with the source of the data provided by GreatSchools, but also with how we use it, and, especially what our obligations are, as White and/or privileged people, when we interact with this data.

Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further.

LINKS:

• Matt’s article on Great Schools
• Peter Bergman (Columbia University) – Study on the impacts of providing GreatSchools ratings to people searching for homes with housing vouchers (Section 8)
• Vernā Myers’s TED Talk– Researcher of bias who worked with Next Door
• EdWeek interview with Bill Jackson, the founder of GreatSchools, about the original vision for the organization.
• Three takes on how Next Door has tried to address racial bias:
• Harvard Business Review
• Wired
• The Root

Join our Patreon (http://patreon.com/integratedschools) to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further.

Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – @integratedschls (https://twitter.com/integratedschls) on twitter, IntegratedSchools (http://facebook.com/integratedschools) on Facebook, or email us at [email protected].

The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits.

This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowitz and Ali McKay. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits.

Music by Kevin Casey

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

In the first of two parts looking at how we measure and communicate school quality, and how that impacts our educational system, we’re joined by Professor Jack Schneider. He has been thinking about school ratings, and school quality for many years. He started the Massachusetts Consortium for Innovative Educational Assessment, a coalition of school and district leaders working to reimagine school assessment and accountability by including multiple measures of student engagement, student achievement, and school environment, and emphasizing performance assessments in the classroom to measure students’ deeper mastery of content and skills.

We dig into what we are measuring, and, perhaps more importantly, what we aren’t. We also discuss the tension between a real need for transparent accountability, and the issues with the metrics we are currently using.

Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further.

Links:

• The Massachusetts Consortium for Innovative Educational Assessment
• Professor Schneider’s 2017 book – Beyond Test Scores
• Professor Schneider’ podcast – Have You Heard
• Pre-order Professor Schneider’s new book – A Wolf at The Schoolhouse Door
• A primer on No Child Left Behind (NCLB)
• Professor Wayne Au on the links between testing and white supremacy

Remember, any book bought through a link here or by starting at our affiliate page on IndieBound supports local bookstores, and Integrated Schools. The Integrated Schools Podcast is produced by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. Audio editing and mixing by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey.

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Howard University Law School is often called the launching pad for Brown v Board. Thurgood Marshall taught there, Charles Hamilton Houston, who was, in many ways, the architect of the multi-year legal strategy that led to BvB, was a dean. Yet here, in 2019, the work that Howard launched is still incomplete. By many measures, our schools are as segregated, if not more, than they were before the unanimous Brown v Board decision. The historical and ongoing segregation is core to educational and racial injustice, and constitutes a breach that our guest, Professor Justin Hansford, argues is in need of repair – a human rights violation that require reparations.

Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further.

LINKS:

• Houston Institue Panel on the 65th Anniversary of Brown v Board
• Professor Hansford’s Op-Ed for the ACLU
• Callie House – One of the leaders of the first organization to call for reparations in the late 1800s.
• Ta-Nehisi Coates – The Case for Reparations
• Ibram X. Kendi – How To Be An Anti-Racist
• Michelle Alexander – The New Jim Crow
• EdBuild’s Report on the $23 billon funding gap
• An example of reparations being paid in the US, from the Washington Post

Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – @integratedschls on twitter, IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us at [email protected].

The Integrated Schools Podcast is produced by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. Audio editing and mixing by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy