Everywhere you look, you see two types of technology existing side-by-side. One that runs on fossil fuels and one that runs on clean electricity. There’s an ongoing struggle between the two, a tug of war between two very different futures. Some call it the mid-transition, and it comes with costs that make it politically fraught. This week on Zero, Emily Grubert, professor of sustainable energy policy at the University of Notre Dame, tells Akshat Rathi how to navigate the mid-transition, and the better energy system that exists on the other side.

Zero is a production of Bloomberg Green. Our producer is Oscar Boyd. Special thanks to Sommer Saadi, Mohsis Andam, Sharon Chen and Laura Millan. Thoughts or suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. For more coverage of climate change and solutions, visit https://www.bloomberg.com/green.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.