When should Ukraine commit more forces to a perhaps desperate stand to hold ground it will likely lose? And when is it the difficult but correct choice to preserve the force and pull back to the next defensive line? This is the real, agonizing strategic dilemma shaping the war, now highlighted in the fight for Pokrovsk. Distinguished strategist Lawrence Freedman joins Ryan at a cafe in Vilnius, where they were both speaking at a conference, to dissect this critical question. They also sort through how this relates to each side's theory of victory and the shifting realities of the battlefield.