Ed’s recent interview on the excellent new podcast “GROUND WORK with Kate Kavanaugh” – This episode is a little different-- it's me being interviewed by my friend and past Mountain & Prairie podcast guest Kate Kavanaugh. If you've been listening for a while, then I'm sure you remember Kate-- she's a farmer, butcher, and all-around interesting woman who co-founded Western Daughters Butcher Shop in Denver. - Kate recently started an excellent new podcast called Ground Work, which covers a variety of interesting topics, from soil to health to books to intentional living. Kate is unbelievably smart and insightful, and there's a ton of overlap between what I'm doing with M&P; and what she's doing with Ground Work, so I'd encourage you to check out all of her episodes. There's a link in the notes. - Even though I'm still confused as to why anybody would ever want to interview me, Kate did and we had a fun conversation about everything from conservation to ultra running, reading to starting a podcast. We also talk a lot about my obsession with living what Theodore Roosevelt called the Strenuous Life, and how adopting that approach to life has been life-changing for me. - And speaking of the Strenuous Life, I just launched a new section on MountainandPrairie.com devoted to The Strenuous Life and offering ways for the Mountain & Prairie community to connect and collaborate in the spirit of "Living Strenuously." Rather than try to explain it in these episode notes, I’d encourage you to click over to https://mountainandprairie.com/strenuous-life/ to learn more about all the details.   - Thanks for listening. Hope you enjoy this and all of Kate’s podcast episodes. And I hope you’ll be able to join some of the M&P; community in our commitment to living the Strenuous Life.  Enjoy! –  Kate’s GROUND WORK podcast Strenuous Living on Mountain & Prairie: https://mountainandprairie.com/strenuous-life/ Mountain & Prairie on Strava  Mountain & Prairie on Goodreads  Annual Strenuous Life Retreat Kate's M&P; episode Live Strenuously Merch!  --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE:  Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Support Mountain & Prairie Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts   

The Life-Changing Magic of Living Strenuously, with Kate Kavanaugh

Conversations with innovators of the American West. Guests include athletes, artists, adventurers, writers, ranchers, conservationists, entrepreneurs, thought leaders—anyone who’s doing inspired work that contributes to the region’s evolving and complex cultural fabric.

Through informal yet substantive interviews, conservationist Ed Roberson introduces you to these fascinating characters, giving you a better understanding of their careers, influences, and outlooks, as well as a deeper appreciation for life in the American West.

Personal Journals

Society & Culture

History

Philosophy

Places & Travel

  Kami Bakken is a river guide and outdoor advocate, and she currently serves as the Director of the Freeflow Foundation and Director of Ambassador and Grant Programs for Rivers for Change. A native of Minnesota, Kami headed West for college at Colorado State University, where she earned a degree in Human Dimensions of Natural Resources. Since graduating in 2018, she has been fully focused on helping others explore and appreciate the mountains and rivers of the American West, while also advocating for their protection and conservation.   -   Kami and I met in 2023 when she was the facilitator on my Green River Freeflow Institute workshop through Dinosaur National Monument and the Gates of Lodore. During our weeks of preparation for the course and our five days on the river, I was so impressed by her expertise in outdoor education and river travel, and perhaps more importantly, by her ability to connect with a wide range of people in a sometimes-intense wilderness setting. She’s humble yet confident, earnest yet hilarious, and I credit her with so much of the success of that workshop.   -   When I was in my late 20s and deep in a traditional career in the real estate business, I dreamed of having a life and career like Kami’s– one that combined adventure and wide-open spaces with purpose-driven work. So I wanted to chat with her in depth to learn more about how she has made it all happen. If, like I was, you are interested in learning the realities of following a non-traditional but deeply fulfilling career in the outdoors, then you’ll definitely learn a lot from Kami.   -   We met up a few weeks ago at my house in the Springs and had a wide-ranging and funny conversation about her life, career, adventures, and crazy misadventures. We talked about what drew her to Colorado for college, and some of the challenges of adjusting to such a new place and environment where she didn’t know anyone. We discussed some of her wild experiences traveling in the West and internationally– including a few run-ins with cult-like groups– and how she took the leap to become a sea kayaking guide and eventually a western river guide. We talk a lot about her commitment to pushing outside of her comfort zone, overcoming fear and discomfort, and why she’s drawn to conservation work. We also discuss the financial realities of seasonal work, how her non-profit work compliments her guiding work, her career plans for the future, and her roles with the Freeflow Institute and Foundation.   -   And it’s worth noting that Kami and I will be heading out on the river again this summer for another Freeflow workshop, this time on Oregon’s Wild & Scenic Rogue River– August 15th through 20th. As of this recording, there are still a few spots left, so you can follow the link in the episode notes to learn more about the workshop and apply. As of this moment, you can use the secret code “ED200” to get $200 off of the tuition.   -   A huge thanks to Kami for agreeing to let me ask her a bunch of weird questions, and more importantly, for all of her leadership and support on our river trips. Enjoy!   ---    Kami on Instagram and LinkedIn  Freeflow Institute  Freeflow Foundation Upcoming 2024 Freeflow Program on the Rogue River Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/kami-bakken/      ---   TOPICS DISCUSSED   4:00 - Where Kami is from   5:00 - Why Kami went to Colorado State, and how her family felt about that decision   9:00 - How her early experience in Colorado led her to WWOOF (and apparently a couple of cults)   15:30 - Kami’s return to CSU, and her entry into the world of outdoor recreation   19:30 - Kami’s travel adventures post-graduation   22:00 - Kami’s time with Protect Our Winters   24:15 - Kami’s transition to professional guiding   27:45 - Where Kami’s desire for connection and impact led her career next   31:45 - What Kami’s friends from college were doing while she was raft guiding, and whether or not she has ever questioned her career path   33:30 - Exploring the difference between contentment and happiness, and some more details about the outdoor education and rafting nonprofit that Kami worked for   37:15 - Kami’s transition to the Freeflow Foundation   44:00 - Discussing the Freeflow Foundation   45:45 - Balancing safety with growth driven by risk   50:00 - The trip that Ed and Kami did together on the Green River   54:45 - What makes for a good outdoor guide, and what makes for a bad one   59:00 - Who Kami admires    1:03:00 - Kami’s next steps   1:05:45 - What worries Kami   1:09:00 - Kami’s book recommendations   1:10:30 - Kami’s advice for those who want to try a new lifestyle or career   --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE:  Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Support Mountain & Prairie Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts 

Kami Bakken - How to Build a Life and Career in the West's Wide-Open Spaces

  Hampton Sides is a Santa Fe-based historian and bestselling author who has written many books that are favorites of Mountain & Prairie listeners, including "Blood and Thunder," "On Desperate Ground," and "Ghost Soldiers." His newest book is "The Wide Wide Sea: Imperial Ambition, First Contact and the Fateful Final Voyage of Captain James Cook," which is available now and sitting high on the New York Times bestseller list. If you’re a longtime Mountain & Prairie listener, then I’m sure you’re glad to see that Hampton has joined me for yet another podcast conversation.   -   Much of Captain Cook’s epic third voyage takes place far from the mountains and prairies of the American West, in tropical paradises including Tahiti and Hawaii. But what you may not realize, is that a big portion of his final voyage was spent exploring and mapping the west coast of North America, from the rocky shores of present-day Oregon and Washington, all the way up to Alaska. While I was somewhat familiar with Cook and his explorations, I didn’t fully understand or appreciate the mind-blowing scale of his journeys or his impact on world history.   -   As is the case with all of Hampton’s books, he melds together deep and extensive research with thrilling storytelling to make the process of understanding history as entertaining as it is educational. While Cook is obviously a central figure in "The Wide Wide Sea," the book also profiles numerous fascinating Polynesian and Indigenous historical figures, including the Tahitian man named Mai, whom Hampton and I discussed at length in our September 2021 episode. If you haven’t already listened to that episode, I’d encourage you to do so when you’re done with this one– there’s a link in the episode notes.   -   Hampton and I met up here in Colorado Springs, one of many stops on his book tour for The Wide Wide Sea. As usual, we had a fun and at times very funny conversation about history, his research and writing process, and all things Captain Cook. We started out discussing why Hampton is drawn to write about controversial historical figures, and we talked at length about how he combined historical accounts from Europeans with those from the Indigenous communities that Cook visited. We talked about the mystery of Cook’s dramatic personality change, how Cook’s arrival disrupted the equilibrium of Polynesian cultures, Cook’s leadership style both before and after his personality change, how Hampton organized such massive amounts of research, and how and why he works so hard to get his books into the world. He also gives a sneak peek into his next book, which will based here in Colorado and explores one of the West’s most notorious massacres.   -   A huge thank you to Hampton for taking time out of his busy schedule to chat with me again, and thank you for listening. Enjoy!   ---   Hampton Sides   The Wide Wide Sea  by Hampton Sides    Hampton’s M&P; episode discussing Mai   BOZEMAN FILM EVENT: Good Fire, Bad Fire    ---   TOPICS DISCUSSED:   4:30 - Discussing Hampton’s recent time on the road, and why Hampton values in-person readings   7:00 - Why write about Captain Cook   10:45 - Captain Cook, pre-1776   16:45 - Cook’s ship   21:15 - Exploring Cook’s mental health   25:30 - Exploring humans’ predisposition towards greed   29:30 - The importance of doing boots-on-the-ground research for history   32:00 - How Cook kept scurvy at bay   34:30 - Hampton’s biggest unexpected discovery while writing  The Wide Wide Sea   38:00 - Whether or not Hampton experienced apprehensions about telling the story of a complicated person like Cook   42:00 - Discussing the circumstances that led to Cook’s death   45:45 - Discussing some of Cook’s personality traits and cultural differences between Cook and the Māori    49:30 - How Hampton organizes his quotes for writing   53:45 - How Hampton actually sells his books   58:00 - Hampton’s plans for the future   --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE:  Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Support Mountain & Prairie Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts 

Hampton Sides Returns: The Wild and Tragic Tale of Captain James Cook

  Celene Hawkins is the Colorado River Tribal Water Partnerships Program Director for the Nature Conservancy, and Izabella Ruffino is the Tribal and Indigenous Engagement Program Manager for the Colorado Chapter of the Nature Conservancy. Both Celene and Izabella use their skills to advance and support tribal-led land and water conservation work throughout the American West.   -   Most of Celene’s work is centered around the Colorado River Basin, and she has played an integral role in many cutting-edge water conservation projects that have sought out Tribal voices and Indigenous perspectives to create some of the West’s most effective and equitable solutions to complex water challenges. Perhaps most notably, she worked with the Jicarilla Apache Nation, the New Mexico Interstate Stream Commission, and her colleagues at TNC to create a first-of-its-kind water agreement that was a true win-win for nature and people.   -   Izabella’s work builds on TNC’s strong foundation of partnerships with Tribal Nations for land and water issues, and she is also focused on expanding Tribal and Indigenous engagement into all aspects of TNC’s wide-ranging conservation work. Additionally, she is responsible for internal efforts to fortify organizational cultural awareness and humility within TNC’s Colorado Chapter. As you’ll hear, Izabella is doing everything from leading internal educational initiatives to working with wide-ranging stakeholder groups on projects such as determining the best uses for TNC-owned land and preserves.   -   In this episode, we dig into the details of many of their specific projects and initiatives, but we also talk more broadly about the importance of seeking out Indigenous perspectives to help guide TNC’s critical conservation work around the world. They both offer plentiful resources– online courses, books, podcasts, essays, and more– that will help me (and you, the listener!) better understand the importance of bringing together diverse perspectives to guide the next chapter of conversation work in the West and beyond.   -   Celene and Izabella mention so many excellent books, people, and resources, so don’t forget to check out the episode notes for links to everything. A big thanks to them both for such a fun, inspiring, and educational conversation. I hope you enjoy!   ---   Celene Hawkins  Izabella Ruffino    A Win-Win-Win Solution for the Colorado River   Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/celene-izabella/    --- This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.   On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond.   To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org ---  TOPICS DISCUSSED:   3:30 - Introductions   8:30 - The win-win partnership between the Jicarilla Apache Nation, the New Mexico Interstate Stream Commission, and TNC   14:00- Challenges and opportunities related to putting together the partnership deal   19:00 - Benefits to all parties as a result of the deal   21:30 - Positive ripple effects resulting from the partnership   24:15 - TNC’s strategies for managing its preserves, including the Medano Zapata Ranch   29:15- The process of gathering Indigenous and local perspectives   32:00 - Strategies, tactics, and frameworks for building cross-cultural relationships   36:30 - Balancing the time it takes to build solid relationships with the reality that “time is of the essence”   40:30 - Upcoming exciting projects   44:30 - Resources for further learning   50:30 - Why they each chose to apply their talents, skills, and careers to the cause of conservation   55:30 - Heroes and mentors   1:05:00 - Favorite books   1:11:00 - Parting words of wisdom   --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE:  Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Support Mountain & Prairie Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts 

Celene Hawkins & Izabella Ruffino - Tribal Partnerships, Indigenous Voices, Cutting-Edge Conservation

 Kristine Tompkins is an iconic conservationist, the president and co-founder of Tompkins Conservation, and the former CEO of Patagonia. For three decades, she has committed to protecting and restoring wild beauty and biodiversity by creating national parks, restoring wildlife, inspiring activism, and fostering economic vitality through conservation. - Kristine and her late husband Douglas Tompkins have protected approximately 14.8 million acres of parklands in Chile and Argentina through Tompkins Conservation and its partners, making them among the most successful national park-oriented philanthropists in history. To give you a frame of reference for exactly how much land 14.8 million acres is, Yellowstone National Park is just over 2.2 million acres– so the scale and scope of Tompkins Conservation’s impact is truly mind-blowing. - Kristine’s amazing life story was beautifully told in the 2023 feature-length documentary Wild Life, which I highly recommend and can be streamed on Disney+. She was also awarded the Carnegie Medal of Philanthropy, and she recently gave her second TED talk, which will be released in the coming weeks. She’s been featured by pretty much every media outlet you could imagine, so I was honored that she took time out of her very full schedule to chat with me. - Tompkins Conservation has published multiple books about its groundbreaking conservation work in South America. The most recent book is titled Patagonia National Park Chile, which tells the story of the park’s transformation from a former sheep ranch into one of the crown jewels of Chile’s National Park system. Featuring stunning photography by Linde Waidhofer and essays by Kristine, the former President of Chile Michelle Bachelet, Yvon Chouinard, and many others, the coffee-table style book is equal parts inspiring and educational. It’s the kind of book that you’d proudly display on your shelf and find yourself revisiting for years to come. - I met up with Kristine at her California home, and we had a fun and fascinating conversation about everything from the book to leadership to the growth and evolution of Tompkins Conservation. We discussed optimism and pessimism, the difference between contentment and happiness, the importance of having a relentless work ethic, living an extreme life, and operating as if you have nothing to lose. We also talked in detail about the challenges of creating Patagonia National Park, balancing rewilding efforts with the need for economic vitality, and how the conservation lessons learned in South America can be applied to conservation efforts here in the American West. There are even a few brief appearances by her two very sweet pups who sat with us during our conversation, so all of you dog lovers will surely enjoy hearing from them. - Patagonia National Park Chile is available right now at  Patagonia.com and available for pre-order wherever you get your books. Follow the links in the episode notes to learn more. ---  Tompkins Conservation NEW BOOK: Patagonia National Park Chile Rewilding Chile Rewilding Argentina      Wild Life Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/kristine-tompkins/  --- TOPICS DISCUSSED:   3:40 - Why Kris keeps coming back to books   7:30 - Who is Arnie Næss   13:45 - Discussing leadership, giving credit, and other behaviors key to Kris’s success   18:40 - Happiness vs contentment   21:30 - Discussing Valle Chacabuco   25:45 - Establishing local buy-in as a conservation entity not local to Chile   30:30 - How the Tompkins managed livestock on the Valle Chacabuco   32:15 - The speed at which settlers spread to Chile   34:15 - Whether Kris is an optimist or pessimist    36:00 - Who in the new generation gives Kris hope, and what Kris thinks about “hope”   40:45 - Kris’s view on taking action   44:30 - How Kris prioritizes her efforts   49:45 - What Kris has learned in South America that is applicable to the North American West   52:15 - Business’s impact on Kris and Doug’s conservation work ethic   53:45 - Kris’s favorite failure and lessons learned   59:45 - Kris’s life of extremes and passion for service   1:05:45 - Kris’s book recommendations   1:15:45 - The land trust movement in the US, and the American grasslands   ---  

Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose

 Logan Maxwell Hagege  is an Ojai, CA-based contemporary artist with modern visions of the American West. Logan is no stranger to longtime Mountain & Prairie listeners—he first joined me on the podcast back in 2019, and he made another appearance in 2022 alongside several other renowned Western artists in an episode recorded live at Maxwell Alexander Gallery’s 10-year anniversary exhibition. In this episode, I reconnected with Logan at his Ojai studio, and we caught up on a long list of fascinating topics, including his upcoming exhibition at the Gerald Peters Gallery in New York City titled   Flowers Will Grow.   -   Since our first podcast conversation, Logan’s artistic career has continued to skyrocket, and his work has earned the acclaim of a growing number of collectors, critics, and journalists. Most recently, his painting titled “Time and Space” won Best in Show at the Autry’s Masters of the American West show. He’s also been featured in all corners of the Western art world, including a recent spread in Western Art and Architecture and collaborations with well-known brands such as Stetson and Pendleton. But perhaps most impressively, he’s accomplished all of this success while being a deeply committed husband and father of two young children.   -   As you’ll hear in this conversation, Logan works extremely hard and is fully committed to exploring new realms of his artistic interests, but he brings balance and calmness to what could easily become an all-consuming obsession. I caught Logan just as he was wrapping up all the final details for his upcoming show, and we had a fun discussion about a wide range of topics, including: The intensity of preparing for a show, accepting the judgment that comes with showing art, his practice of constant doodling, how living in Ojai has changed his approach, the importance of self-talk, Georgia O’Keefe, the idea that perfection is boring, the need for action, and much more. Check out the episode notes for a full list of topics discussed and links to everything.   -   And if you happen to be in New York, the  Flowers Will Grow  exhibition will open with a reception with Logan on Thursday evening, April 18, 2024, and will be on display through May 23rd. There’s a link in the episode notes with all of that information.   -   A huge thanks to Logan for letting me barge into his studio during such a busy time and a huge thanks to you for listening. Enjoy!   ---    Logan Maxwell Hagege  Logan on Instagram    Flowers Will Grow at the Gerald Peters Gallery NYC  Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/lmh-2/   ---  TOPICS DISCUSSED:   2:45 - What the hell is happening in Logan’s studio, and his upcoming show in New York   5:15 - Why Logan is working with a gallery outside of the Maxwell-Alexander Gallery   7:30 - Whether Logan was nervous the last time he showed his art in New York   9:00 - The impact of being able to show more examples of an artist’s work   11:15 - How periods of intensity and external pressure have shaped Logan’s work   12:45 - How Logan’s art has changed since his 2018 show   14:30 - What a Logan’s process looks like when there isn’t external pressure from deadlines   17:45 - Logan’s doodling process   19:45 - The need for action   23:30 - How Logan deals with the fact that unique art will be judged   27:45 - Discussing perfection and how boring it is   28:45 - Who Logan admires   31:15 - Discussing Georgia O’Keefe   32:45 - Discussing Logan’s life in Ojai   40:00 - The importance of retreat for Logan’s art   42:00 - The impact of self-talk   44:30 - Discussing the new gallery   47:45 - Logan’s book and artist recommendations      --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE:  Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Support Mountain & Prairie Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts 

The Life-Changing Magic of Living Strenuously, with Kate Kavanaugh

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