The Locked up Living Podcast: Surviving and thriving in prisons and other challenging environments

In this episode, Dr. Steph Davies shares her extensive experience working at the front lines of death investigations, challenging assumptions, and uncovering hidden truths in suspicious and staged scenes. Her insights highlight the importance of meticulous forensic analysis and the pressing need for improved training and procedures in the UK’s coronial system.

Stephanie Davies is a former Senior Coroner's Officer and now an independent inquisitorial death investigator. She has a forensic science and forensic psychology background, and she has been investigating deaths for over twenty years. She is now studying for a doctorate and she consults on complex cases on behalf of families and lawyers. 

To find out more about Steph, please visit: www.deathinvestigator.co.uk  

Key topics:

The roles and responsibilities of a coroner's officer versus a coroner

Steph’s journey from forensic science and psychology to death investigations

Challenges faced by deaf professionals in forensic fields

Bloodstain pattern analysis and staged crime scene recognition

Investigating suspicious deaths and recognizing red flags

The Wilmslow murders case: forensic re-evaluation and uncovering potential serial offenses

The importance of critical thinking and attention to detail in forensic investigations

The false narratives and misinterpretations in high-profile cases like Lucy Letby

The systemic issues and misconduct in police investigations and whistleblowing experiences

Comparing US and UK practices in death investigation and training gaps

The value of independent forensic consultancy in complex cases

How working with death emphasizes the significance of life and the importance of truth

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction to Steph Davies and her forensic background

02:43 - Role of a coroner's officer and how it differs from a coroner

05:16 - Steph’s career journey and forensic interests

07:31 - Misconceptions about New York Police and forensic work in America

09:39 - Living with a hearing impairment and its impact on Steph’s career

12:36 - Day-to-day responsibilities of a coroner's officer and investigations

15:54 - Specialized training in staged crime scenes and bloodstain analysis

17:09 - Collaborating with police and other investigators on complex cases

18:41 - What drew Steph to investigate suspicious deaths and her inquisitive nature

22:39 - The Wilmslow murders: forensic re-examination and uncovering inconsistencies

27:53 - The potential presence of a serial offender and systemic investigation issues

32:13 - Re-evaluation of a series of suspicious cases and red flags

37:17 - The controversy and systemic flaws in police investigations and investigations’ aftermath

41:54 - Leaked reports, police misconduct, and challenges faced as a whistleblower

48:32 - The Lucy Letby case: forensic misinterpretations and miscarriages of justice

52:02 - Developing a moral compass and fighting systemic injustice

55:07 - Ongoing studies in coronial death determination and international practices

57:33 - Independent consulting work and future plans in complex forensic cases

60:02 - The impact of working with death on valuing life and pursuit of truth

Resources & Links:

Coronial Manner of Death Determination in Equivocal Deaths and Staged Crime Scenes (Doctoral Research) (replace with actual URL)

Note: This episode sheds light on the intricacies of forensic death investigations, emphasizing the importance of critical analysis, scientific rigor, and ethical responsibility in uncovering truth and justice.

Following last weeks expanded conversation with Chris Scanlon about the Henderson Hospital Dr Fiona Warren discusses her journey through her research career which involved personality disorders, therapeutic communities, and service effectiveness. This episode, an expanded version of the original from 2021 explores the historical context, research challenges, and the future of treatment approaches. It complements the conversation with Dr Chris Scanlon.

'

I have worked in the NHS and academic psychology teaching and researching “Personality Disorders” and related aspects such as impulsive behaviours and self-harm; offending; attachment styles and mentalization; treatment outcomes and staff training since early 1990s, including ten years in Clinical Psychology Training. Having trained more recently in coaching, I am also interested in contributing to the evidence base in coaching psychology. I have taught and examined both quantitative and qualitative methodologies.

Doing much of my "growing up" as a psychologist and researcher in a Democratic Therapeutic Community, I am committed to the involvement of those with "lived experience" in Clinical Training, research and service development.'

Key topics:

Timestamps: 00:00 - Fiona Warren's background and career journey

Five years ago, 2021, David Jones and Naomi Murphy began the Locked up Living podcast. Over 400 episodes later we are still going and are proud of the library of conversations we have produced with so many excellent colleagues. This is an extended version of an episode from 2021 previously shared with Dr Fiona Warren and focuses on the closing of the Henderson Hospital. The full episode with Dr Warren features a discussion about the value and meaning of research in a socio-political climate that wants to look elsewhere.

This episode features Dr. Christopher Scanlon, a consultant psychotherapist with decades of experience working with complex trauma and mental health services. Chris offers a candid reflection on the evolution, challenges, and possibilities of therapeutic communities, emphasizing the importance of social and relational approaches over purely biomedical models. Key topics:

Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction to Chris Scanlon's background and work

01:08 - The psychosocial orientation versus psychoanalytic models

02:05 - The role of group analysis and community in treatment

03:23 - Experiences working at Henderson Hospital

04:37 - The interface of community assessment and outreach

06:15 - Challenges of referral and ethical consent in high-security settings

08:11 - Critique of personality disorder label and trauma adaptation

09:37 - Systemic dysfunction and medicalization of complex trauma

11:34 - Attitudes towards difficult patients and systemic resistance

13:19 - The system's reliance on medication and lack of holistic treatment

14:17 - Iatrogenic effects and the failure of biomedical dominance

16:10 - Societal trauma, racism, exclusion, and the "unhoused" state

17:16 - Organizational culture at Henderson and peer influence

18:48 - The significance of social relationships over formal therapy 19:55 - Key moments of social connection as pivotal to healing

20:34 - The decline of sociotherapy in prison and community settings

22:39 - Hierarchies, professional identity, and relational humility 23:23 - The undervaluing of milieu and social space in treatment

24:50 - Difficulties of measuring multi-modal, relational interventions

26:54 - Challenges of evidence-based support and cost-effectiveness

29:56 - The cost benefits of residential and community-based services

32:32 - Political and professional rivalries in resource allocation

35:06 - The impact of commissioning practices on service sustainability

36:11 - Lessons from the closure of Henderson and systemic failure

38:09 - The role of community and relational trust in service efficacy

40:12 - The importance of understanding failure through political and social lenses

43:27 - The influence of market forces and privatization on service models

44:30 - The threat of profit motives and the privatization of mental health in prison

49:53 - The challenge of belonging and power in community settings

57:29 - Building capacity for creativity and resilience through social spaces

60:06 - The importance of trust, shared authority, and authentic relationships

61:52 - The culture of inquiry and the transferential space

66:14 - The significance of presence, continuity, and shared lived experience

68:42 - The concept of the "Hendo" as a transference object and community symbol

73:56 - The "unhoused mind": societal exclusion, trauma, and belonging

76:47 - Society's role in housing and trauma, and the psychosocial lens

78:35 - Broader societal issues: extremism, colonialism, and systemic injustice

80:36 - The healing power of shared community and relational space

81:12 - Personal reflections on the loss of Henderson and current gaps

81:58 - The dangers of societal disconnection and the importance of inclusive belonging

In this episode of Locked up Living, Naomi Murphy and David Jones discuss the life of Keith Grounsell, a veteran police officer with nearly 30 years of experience in the field. Keith has spent much of his career navigating the perilous world of undercover operations, infiltrating drug cartels and exposing corruption at the highest levels. Keith shares his harrowing experiences, from the adrenaline-fueled moments of deep undercover work to the psychological toll of living a double life. He explains how he balanced the constant danger with his commitment to integrity and justice, all while maintaining a strong family life. Keith opens up about the challenges of facing violent criminals, the mental strain of deception, and the sacrifices made along the way. He also discusses the importance of mental health, faith, and writing as tools for coping with trauma. This episode offers a rare glimpse into the personal and professional growth of a man dedicated to making a difference, despite the risks. Whether you're interested in law enforcement, personal development, or the impact of a high-stakes career on family life, this conversation promises to be both enlightening and inspiring. Listen to hear Keith's insights on leadership, resilience, and the ongoing fight for justice in a world fraught with danger and corruption.

 keywords

law enforcement, undercover operations, leadership, integrity, mental health, crime, drug trafficking, corruption, resilience, public safety

 key  topics

Deep undercover operations and their psychological impact

Leadership challenges and integrity in law enforcement

The fight against drug trafficking and organized crime

 sound bites

"Stress management is crucial for officers"

"Undercover work is scrutinized like no other"

"Integrity is the foundation of law enforcement"

Chapters

00:00 Keith Grounsell: A Journey Through Undercover Work

07:32 The Psychological Toll of Undercover Operations

12:04 The Drive for Excellence and Leadership

16:58 Facing the Consequences of Law Enforcement

22:55 The Struggles of Integrity in Law Enforcement

31:59 Understanding Human Trafficking and Its Roots

33:55 The Impact of Digital Exposure on Youth

34:53 The Psychological Toll of Undercover Work

40:58 The Journey of Writing and Storytelling

45:26 Navigating Relationships Amidst Public Scrutiny

50:06 Faith, Fitness, and Mental Resilience

56:14 The Unyielding Drive for Justice

01:01:23 Ten second outro video.mp4

 resources

Keith Grounsell's Books - https://grounsellbooks.com/

https://igilacademy.com/

Law Enforcement Leader, Anti-Corruption Advocate, Master Instructor and AuthorWith over 26 years of leadership in law enforcement and international advisory roles, Keith Grounsell has built a career defined by integrity, resilience, and a relentless fight against corruption. As a two-time Chief of Police, former DEA Special Agent, and Senior Law Enforcement Advisor on U.S. Department of State and UN contracts, Keith has led in some of the world’s most demanding environments. His leadership has resulted in criminal convictions of corrupt officials, solidifying his role as an advocate for ethical leadership.Keith’s deep undercover work, captured in his A Narc’s Tale book series, inspired the A&E series Undercover: Caught on Tape, offering audiences raw insights into the challenges of law enforcement. His experiences working with over 30 countries—through post-hurricanes, pandemics like Ebola, civil wars, and more—equip him to speak powerfully on leadership under pressure, crisis management, and strategic planning in unpredictable environments.A published author of eight books, Keith also consulted on an award-winning human trafficking film, underscoring his dedication to justice and human rights. As a speaker, Keith captivates audiences with topics such as leadership, ethical decision-making, perseverance, working deep undercover, human trafficking, and overcoming adversity in challenging environments.His real-world experience and passion for integrity make Keith a sought-after keynote speaker and author. Whether addressing leadership challenges, career development, or community relations, his presentations and books inspire audiences to lead with purpose and create lasting change.

In this episode of Locked up Living, Naomi Murphy and David Jones discuss the life of Keith Grounsell, a veteran police officer with nearly 30 years of experience in the field. Keith has spent much of his career navigating the perilous world of undercover operations, infiltrating drug cartels and exposing corruption at the highest levels. Keith shares his harrowing experiences, from the adrenaline-fueled moments of deep undercover work to the psychological toll of living a double life. He explains how he balanced the constant danger with his commitment to integrity and justice, all while maintaining a strong family life. Keith opens up about the challenges of facing violent criminals, the mental strain of deception, and the sacrifices made along the way. He also discusses the importance of mental health, faith, and writing as tools for coping with trauma. This episode offers a rare glimpse into the personal and professional growth of a man dedicated to making a difference, despite the risks. Whether you're interested in law enforcement, personal development, or the impact of a high-stakes career on family life, this conversation promises to be both enlightening and inspiring. Listen to hear Keith's insights on leadership, resilience, and the ongoing fight for justice in a world fraught with danger and corruption.

 keywords

law enforcement, undercover operations, leadership, integrity, mental health, crime, drug trafficking, corruption, resilience, public safety

 key  topics

Deep undercover operations and their psychological impact

Leadership challenges and integrity in law enforcement

The fight against drug trafficking and organized crime

 sound bites

"Stress management is crucial for officers"

"Undercover work is scrutinized like no other"

"Integrity is the foundation of law enforcement"

Chapters

00:00 Keith Grounsell: A Journey Through Undercover Work

07:32 The Psychological Toll of Undercover Operations

12:04 The Drive for Excellence and Leadership

16:58 Facing the Consequences of Law Enforcement

22:55 The Struggles of Integrity in Law Enforcement

31:59 Understanding Human Trafficking and Its Roots

33:55 The Impact of Digital Exposure on Youth

34:53 The Psychological Toll of Undercover Work

40:58 The Journey of Writing and Storytelling

45:26 Navigating Relationships Amidst Public Scrutiny

50:06 Faith, Fitness, and Mental Resilience

56:14 The Unyielding Drive for Justice

01:01:23 Ten second outro video.mp4

 resources

Keith Grounsell's Books - https://grounsellbooks.com/

https://igilacademy.com/

Law Enforcement Leader, Anti-Corruption Advocate, Master Instructor and AuthorWith over 26 years of leadership in law enforcement and international advisory roles, Keith Grounsell has built a career defined by integrity, resilience, and a relentless fight against corruption. As a two-time Chief of Police, former DEA Special Agent, and Senior Law Enforcement Advisor on U.S. Department of State and UN contracts, Keith has led in some of the world’s most demanding environments. His leadership has resulted in criminal convictions of corrupt officials, solidifying his role as an advocate for ethical leadership.Keith’s deep undercover work, captured in his A Narc’s Tale book series, inspired the A&E series Undercover: Caught on Tape, offering audiences raw insights into the challenges of law enforcement. His experiences working with over 30 countries—through post-hurricanes, pandemics like Ebola, civil wars, and more—equip him to speak powerfully on leadership under pressure, crisis management, and strategic planning in unpredictable environments.A published author of eight books, Keith also consulted on an award-winning human trafficking film, underscoring his dedication to justice and human rights. As a speaker, Keith captivates audiences with topics such as leadership, ethical decision-making, perseverance, working deep undercover, human trafficking, and overcoming adversity in challenging environments.His real-world experience and passion for integrity make Keith a sought-after keynote speaker and author. Whether addressing leadership challenges, career development, or community relations, his presentations and books inspire audiences to lead with purpose and create lasting change.

Join Dr Naomi Murphy and David Jones as they delve into the transformative power of literature within the criminal justice system, through the inspiring insights of Jean Trounstine. An author, activist, and educator, Jean shares her decades of work supporting incarcerated women, the arts behind bars, and her journey creating impactful stories that challenge perceptions of justice and rehabilitation. Her first novel, 'Sounds like trouble to me' is released on 12th May.

In this episode, we cover:

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction to Jean Trounstine and her work in prison theatre

Join Dr Naomi Murphy and David Jones as they delve into the transformative power of literature within the criminal justice system, through the inspiring insights of Jean Trounstine. An author, activist, and educator, Jean shares her decades of work supporting incarcerated women, the arts behind bars, and her journey creating impactful stories that challenge perceptions of justice and rehabilitation. Her first novel, 'Sounds like trouble to me' is released on 12th May.

In this episode, we cover:

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction to Jean Trounstine and her work in prison theatre

Barbara Rawlings is a retired sociologist originally gaining her PhD in 1980 from Manchester University with an ethnography of a therapeutic community.  She has specialised in qualitive research in a variety of public sector settings and particularly in therapeutic communities.  These have been in both community and forensic settings, and have been both democratic therapeutic communities and the more hierarchical TCs which  work with drug addiction.  She is a co-opted member of CSAAP (Correctional Services Acccreditation and Advice Panel) and most recently has worked on research into the Living Learning Experience (LLE) which is an international training programme for therapeutic community staff.

This interview with Barbara Rawlings explores the world of therapeutic communities, contrasting hierarchical and democratic models, their histories, and their impact on treatment outcomes. Discover insights into staff roles, community dynamics, and the importance of environment in recovery.

therapeutic communities, hierarchical vs democratic, addiction treatment, mental health, prison rehabilitation, community therapy, personality disorders, recovery models

Differences between hierarchical and democratic therapeutic communities

 sound bites

"In democratic communities, everyone is almost an equal."

00:00 Introduction to Therapeutic Communities

Barbara Rawlings is a retired sociologist originally gaining her PhD in 1980 from Manchester University with an ethnography of a therapeutic community.  She has specialised in qualitive research in a variety of public sector settings and particularly in therapeutic communities.  These have been in both community and forensic settings, and have been both democratic therapeutic communities and the more hierarchical TCs which  work with drug addiction.  She is a co-opted member of CSAAP (Correctional Services Acccreditation and Advice Panel) and most recently has worked on research into the Living Learning Experience (LLE) which is an international training programme for therapeutic community staff.

This interview with Barbara Rawlings explores the world of therapeutic communities, contrasting hierarchical and democratic models, their histories, and their impact on treatment outcomes. Discover insights into staff roles, community dynamics, and the importance of environment in recovery.

therapeutic communities, hierarchical vs democratic, addiction treatment, mental health, prison rehabilitation, community therapy, personality disorders, recovery models

Differences between hierarchical and democratic therapeutic communities

 sound bites

"In democratic communities, everyone is almost an equal."

00:00 Introduction to Therapeutic Communities

In this episode Naomi and David explore with Sophie and Nujoji the nuanced experiences of women in prison who are convicted of murder, through the lens of therapeutic community research. We delve into the processes of change, identity reconstruction, and the significance of relational work in high-security settings.

In this episode:

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction to research on women in therapeutic prison communities

This episode offers deep reflections on the complexity of prison-based therapeutic work, crucial for practitioners, policymakers, and anyone interested in the transformative potential within high-security environments.