The Marketing Architects

Welcome to Nerd Alert, a series of special episodes bridging the gap between marketing academia and practitioners. We’re breaking down highly involved, complex research into plain language and takeaways any marketer can use.

In this episode, Elena and Rob explore how brand presence and timing shape viewer memory. They reveal why showing your brand early and often for at least two-thirds of the ad is critical for recognition.

Topics covered:   

• [01:00] "Brand Recognition in Television Advertising: The Influence of Brand Presence and Brand Introduction"
• [02:00] How brand presence affects recall
• [03:00] The cost of delayed brand introduction
• [04:00] The two-thirds rule for optimal recognition
• [05:00] Building memory structures through creative
• [06:00] Why storytelling techniques can backfire 

 





To learn more, visit marketingarchitects.com/podcast or subscribe to our newsletter at marketingarchitects.com/newsletter. 
 

Resources: 
Gerber, C., Terblanche-Smit, M., & Crommelin, T. (2014). Brand recognition in television advertising: The influence of brand presence and brand introduction.Acta Commercii, 14(1), 1–9. https://doi.org/10.4102/ac.v14i1.223 
 

Get more research-backed marketing strategies by subscribing to The Marketing Architects on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

When your grandma starts asking ChatGPT for recommendations, you know search has fundamentally changed. Josh Blyskal from Profound tracks billions of real AI search queries, and his data reveals a massive shift in how consumers discover and evaluate brands.

This week, Elena, Rob, and Jonathan sit down with Josh to discuss answer engine optimization (AEO) and what marketers need to know right now. Josh explains why traditional SEO tactics like domain authority matter less in AI search, how different engines cite content, and the surprising power of FAQs in product discovery. Plus, learn why SEOs have never had a better opportunity to become heroes in their marketing organizations.

Topics covered: 

• [04:00] When AI search shifted from novelty to cultural necessity
• [06:00] How ranking signals differ between ChatGPT, Gemini, and Perplexity
• [09:00] Why domain authority matters less for AEO than traditional SEO
• [14:00] Tracking real user prompts across the marketing funnel
• [19:00] How instant checkout in ChatGPT changes brand visibility strategy
• [22:00] Why FAQs increased citations by 848% in top-performing domains
• [26:00] Why SEOs should lead the AEO charge at their companies 

To learn more, visit marketingarchitects.com/podcast or subscribe to our newsletter at marketingarchitects.com/newsletter. 
 

Resources: 
2025 Profound Article: https://www.tryprofound.com/guides/what-is-answer-engine-optimization

Profound Website: https://www.tryprofound.com/

Profound LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tryprofound/

Josh Blyskal’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-blyskal/
 

Get more research-backed marketing strategies by subscribing to The Marketing Architects on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Highly engaging music can double your return on media investment. Yet most brands treat music as an afterthought, leaving millions on the table.

This week, Elena, Angela, and Rob are joined by Roscoe Williamson, Global Strategy Director at MassiveMusic. Together, they dig into groundbreaking research proving music is a tangible driver of marketing effectiveness. Roscoe shares findings from a study with the IPA that tested hundreds of UK TV ads and reveals which types of music increase brand fame, willingness to pay, and campaign ROI.

Topics covered: 

• [01:00] The history of music in advertising from jingles to sonic ecosystems
• [09:00] Why longer-form music has been a black hole in effectiveness research
• [14:00] How engaging music can double return on media investment
• [17:00] Examples of brands using music to drive effectiveness
• [23:00] Why CMOs should mandate music testing for campaigns over $1 million
• [27:00] The future of sonic branding and generative AI music 

 





To learn more, visit marketingarchitects.com/podcast or subscribe to our newsletter at marketingarchitects.com/newsletter. 
 

Resources: 
IPA & Massive Music Report: https://resources.massivemusic.com/sound-science-whitepaper

Roscoe Williamson’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roscoewilliamson/
 

Get more research-backed marketing strategies by subscribing to The Marketing Architects on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Reach beats creative. That's the contrarian truth most marketers miss. A 2x better creative won't beat 100x greater reach. And yet brands keep choosing frequency over breadth, hyper-targeting over scale. 

This week, we're sharing a special recording from Brandweek. Angela is joined on-stage by Dale Harrison. Together, they dig into reach primacy: the idea that ongoing reach, not creative brilliance, drives share of market. They explore why brand recall at purchase matters more than top of mind awareness, how forgetting forces you into always on campaigns, and why light buyers fuel growth. Plus, learn how AI driven media buying slashes TV costs while expanding reach across linear and CTV. 

Topics covered: 

• [01:00] Why reach is more powerful than creative effectiveness
• [03:00] Brand recall at purchase and the 95-5 rule
• [06:00] Reach as a rate, not a number
• [11:00] The danger of hyper-targeting on CTV
• [13:00] Why TV gets unfairly labeled as expensive
• [16:00] Using multiple measurement models to prove TV performance 

 





To learn more, visit marketingarchitects.com/podcast or subscribe to our newsletter at marketingarchitects.com/newsletter. 
 

Resources:  
Watch: The Math Behind Smarter TV Advertising: https://www.marketingarchitects.com/blog/watch-the-math-behind-smarter-tv-advertising

Dale Harrison’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dalewharrison/

Angela Voss’ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/angelamvoss/
 

Get more research-backed marketing strategies by subscribing to The Marketing Architects on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Welcome to Nerd Alert, a series of special episodes bridging the gap between marketing academia and practitioners. We’re breaking down highly involved, complex research into plain language and takeaways any marketer can use. 

In this episode, Elena and Rob explore how gift-giving experiences shape emotions, relationships, and brand perception. They reveal why the best brands focus on creating memorable experiences rather than just selling products during the holidays. 

Topics covered:   

• [01:00] "Gift Experience in Marketing: A Systematic Review and Future Research Agenda"
• [03:00] What marketers get wrong about holiday gifting
• [05:00] The four key elements of gift exchanges
• [06:00] Three stages of gift-giving: gestation, presentation, and reformulation
• [07:00] Why experiential gifts outperform material ones
• [08:00] Making the giver the hero 

 





To learn more, visit marketingarchitects.com/podcast or subscribe to our newsletter at marketingarchitects.com/newsletter.
 

Resources: 
Tyagi, H., & Rahman, Z. (2025). Gift experience in marketing: A systematic review and future research agenda. Indian Institute of Technology. 
 

Get more research-backed marketing strategies by subscribing to The Marketing Architects on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Measuring marketing's impact is hard. There's no silver bullet. And if someone tells you there is, they're probably selling you something that only tracks clicks.

This week, Elena, Angela, and Rob are joined by Chief Analytics Officer Matt Hultgren to tackle one of marketing's most persistent challenges: measurement. They explore why so many campaigns fail before they even launch, how to balance short-term performance with long-term brand building, and why the best marketers use multiple models to find the truth.

Topics covered: 

• [02:00] Why human behavior makes measurement messy
• [04:00] The planning problem causing measurement failures
• [06:00] Choosing your North Star metric
• [08:00] Balancing immediate CAC with long-term brand growth
• [10:00] Using multiple models to triangulate the truth
• [13:00] Quantifying TV's halo effect across channels
• [15:00] Incrementality testing vs MMM vs synthetic controls 

To learn more, visit marketingarchitects.com/podcast or subscribe to our newsletter at marketingarchitects.com/newsletter. 
 

Resources: 
2025 Marketing Architects Report: https://www.marketingarchitects.com/Long-and-Short 
 

Get more research-backed marketing strategies by subscribing to The Marketing Architects on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Welcome to Nerd Alert, a series of special episodes bridging the gap between marketing academia and practitioners. We’re breaking down highly involved, complex research into plain language and takeaways any marketer can use.

In this episode, Elena and Rob explore whether "only at Target" labels actually drive sales or if they backfire. They reveal how exclusive features can sometimes make products less appealing when customers see them as trivial or disconnected from real value.

Topics covered:   

• [01:00] "Do Products Labeled Retailer Exclusive Affect Consumer Behavior"
• [02:00] How scarcity influences buying decisions
• [03:00] Testing exclusivity with vacuums and Blu-Rays
• [04:00] Why adding more exclusive features can hurt sales
• [05:00] In-store experiences versus exclusive labels
• [06:00] When exclusivity feels meaningful versus trivial 

 





To learn more, visit marketingarchitects.com/podcast or subscribe to our newsletter at marketingarchitects.com/newsletter. 
 

Resources: 
Upshaw, D., Amyx, D., Upshaw, A., & Hardy, M. (2023). Do products labeled retailer “exclusive” affect consumer behavior?Journal of Marketing Development and Competitiveness 
 

Get more research-backed marketing strategies by subscribing to The Marketing Architects on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Only 15% of brand assets are truly distinctive. GoodRx broke their industry’s mold with a prairie dog sidekick and singing cowgirl. But behind the bold creative lies a data-driven philosophy that challenges everything performance marketers think they know.

This week, Elena, Angela, and Rob sit down with Ryan Sullivan, CMO of GoodRx. Ryan shares his evolution from hardcore performance marketer to someone who questions the very foundations of digital attribution. Learn why he's skeptical of multi-touch attribution, how GoodRx measures success through triangulation, and why increasing "surface area" matters more than hyper-targeting.

Topics covered: 

• [05:00] Why brand search attribution is misleading
• [08:30] The hidden costs of programmatic display advertising
• [15:00] GoodRx's unique challenge of reaching out-of-market consumers
• [19:30] Creating distinctive brand assets with the Savings Wrangler
• [32:00] Building confidence through triangulated measurement
• [36:00] The concept of "free marketing" and reducing control 

To learn more, visit marketingarchitects.com/podcast or subscribe to our newsletter at marketingarchitects.com/newsletter. 
 

Resources: 
2025 eMarketer Article: https://www.emarketer.com/content/goodrx-s-new-feel-good-campaign-seeks-break-through-healthcare-advertising-noise

Ryan Sullivan’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanjsullivan/

GoodRx Website: https://www.goodrx.com/
 

Get more research-backed marketing strategies by subscribing to The Marketing Architects on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Welcome to Nerd Alert, a series of special episodes bridging the gap between marketing academia and practitioners. We’re breaking down highly involved, complex research into plain language and takeaways any marketer can use.

In this episode, Elena and Rob explore how telling people a product isn't for them can boost interest among the right audience. They discuss why exclusion signals expertise and how persuasive framing builds stronger connections with core customers than traditional persuasive messaging.

Topics covered:   

• [01:00] "This Article is Not for Everyone: The Impact of Persuasive Framing on Consumer Response to Product Messages"
• [02:00] Examples of brands using exclusionary messaging
• [04:00] Why persuasive ads outperform persuasive ads
• [05:00] Target specificity and specialized positioning
• [06:00] The steakhouse billboard and flexing for your audience
• [07:00] Marketing takeaways: filtering builds credibility 

 





To learn more, visit marketingarchitects.com/podcast or subscribe to our newsletter at marketingarchitects.com/newsletter. 
 

Resources: 
Wallach, K. A., Blair, S., & Tanenbaum, J. L. (2025). This article is not for everyone: The impact of dissuasive framing on consumer response to product messages. Journal of Consumer Research. Advance online publication. https://doi.org/10.1093/jcr/ucaf034 
 

Get more research-backed marketing strategies by subscribing to The Marketing Architects on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Elderly intoxicated people pay 33% more attention to ads than sober viewers but remember half as much. That's just one reason why optimizing solely for attention can backfire spectacularly.

This week, Elena, Angela, and Rob are joined by Marc Guldimann, CEO of Adelaide. Marc explains why Byron Sharp is right about attention being wasteful when misused, but wrong about dismissing it entirely. The team explores how attention should measure media quality, not creative sensationalism or audience manipulation.

Topics covered: 

• [01:00] Why optimizing for maximum attention creates unintended consequences
• [06:00] Where Byron Sharp gets attention metrics right (and wrong)
• [13:00] The problem with legacy verification companies' attention metrics
• [18:00] How Adelaide rates media quality like a credit rating agency
• [23:00] Why cost-plus agency models create perverse incentives
• [28:00] YouTube podcasts and premium CTV as today's best media bargains 

 





To learn more, visit marketingarchitects.com/podcast or subscribe to our newsletter at marketingarchitects.com/newsletter. 
 

Resources: 
2022 The Media Leader Article: https://uk.themedialeader.com/sharp-is-right-chasing-fleeting-attention-is-a-waste-of-money/

Marc Guldimann’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/guldi/

Adelaide Metrics Website: https://www.adelaidemetrics.com/
 

Get more research-backed marketing strategies by subscribing to The Marketing Architects on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.