Episode summary:

In this episode, Nick speaks with Dr. Benjamin Ritter about living for yourself and how values tie into everything we do or do not do.

What to listen for:

“There are two things there, I think, that happens with novelty. One is the FOMO and the second is getting bored with something before you’re finished with it. I think what’s more what I’m more prone to is just getting bored with things and so what I’ve had to learn is to reconnect with the meaning that I feel from the things that I’m doing and the overall purpose and impact that they’re having.”

“I think everything, every problem, is a personal problem. I can tell you all the tactics that, you know, I can throw them at your head. I think they’re all online. Doing them, understanding them, incorporating them, letting them become part of who you are takes that understanding of the human.”

“If you ever define yourself as being a certain type of person, you have now limited yourself forever. ”

About Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

Dr. Benjamin Ritter, founder of Live for Yourself Consulting, is a leadership and career coach, Talent Development Executive, values geek, international speaker, online course instructor, and podcaster (The Executive, and The Live for Yourself Revolution) who’s passionate about guiding leaders to be the leader of their own career and create a career they love.

Check out Episode #71 with Greg Shephard and Episode # 47 with Matt LeBris to hear more on the topic of personal leadership.

Resources:

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Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Nick McGowan (00:01.014)

Hello and welcome to the mindset and self mastery show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show, I’ve got Dr. Benjamin Ritter. Ben, what’s going on, man? How you doing?

Dr Benjamin Ritter (00:14.478)

I am doing pretty great. I mentioned I had a little bit of a headache doing some running today, but it does not keep me from getting the job done. This is that part of self-mastery.

Nick McGowan (00:25.122)

That is, yeah, that especially when you push through the shit. I know, uh, we were both joking, like when you get over your mid thirties, it’s like stuff like that happens. Just like when you wake up in your morning and you’re like, Oh my God, my back is killing me. What did I do? Oh, I slept. I just laid in a spot for seven hours. That’s what I did wrong. So we try to figure out, is it dehydration? Is it this, is it that? And realistically, Ben, it might just be that you’re old, man. You’re getting there.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (00:51.882)

It’s funny, the other day I did like a hard yoga session, went for a run, did some legs, and all of a sudden out of nowhere, I was walking around with some friends at night and my hip flexor was just incredibly painful. Like could not even walk normal painful, could not lift my leg up. You know, when you sit in a car and you gotta try to get out of the car painful. I was like, okay, something bad happened. This is not good. Go to bed, wake up.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (01:21.046)

It’s gone. Like an hour later, it comes back. I’m like, whatever, I’m going to yoga, go to yoga, go for a run. It’s gone. I was like, you know what?

Dr Benjamin Ritter (01:33.538)

don’t understand it, don’t need to understand it, but I need to know how to take care of myself and potentially figure out how to work past it, work through it and work around it. I think that it’s a good lesson for life overall.

Nick McGowan (01:42.796)

Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (01:46.302)

Oh yeah, absolutely. And especially with the dumb stuff that you can’t really expect. You know, just like if you wake up in the middle of the night and you stub your toe going to the bathroom, you’re like, all I wanted to do is just relieve myself and go back to sleep and not break a toe. But there are people that will just let it use them, no matter what it is. If it’s something like that, or you wake up and you’re like, I’m in pain. I remember even growing up, there were parents of friends that I had that were always in some sort of pain, where there was something for them to always complain about.

Nick McGowan (02:14.87)

But it’s really a mindset thing, I think, at that point to go, well, do I want to deal with this or do I actually not want to deal with it and actually do something about it? Now, I know that’s not what we’re here to talk about, but, you know, that’s how it is, right?

Dr Benjamin Ritter (02:25.342)

I mean, this is a it’s a good segue into all the things we probably will talk about. I was on a different work computer today. I got the blue screen of death, got kicked out of a facilitation I was doing. Stuff happens. You wait, you log back in or use your other computer. You log in through your phone and the world still turns.

Nick McGowan (02:34.721)

Oh.

Nick McGowan (02:38.972)

Yeah.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (02:46.09)

world still turns. I work with a lot of high powered executives that are really worried about perfectionism and getting stuff done and really working to they till they feel like they really can’t work anymore. You know, getting stressed about things they can’t control and work. Work is just there to have some fun and make some money. And I think we, and that find some joy, right? Friendsome impact. I think we get a little too stressed out and I’m it happens to me about things that honestly don’t even matter.

Nick McGowan (02:50.818)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (03:03.339)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (03:13.046)

Yeah, we were talking a little bit about that before we actually hit record. Are there some people like if you have to reschedule or something where they just kind of lose their minds or completely lose interest and other people are like, yeah, it’s whatever. And I appreciate what you said. Like we’re not saving lives right now. Like we’re having conversations. These conversations could save lives, one could even say. However, we’re not delivering babies or saving lives and you should be able to kind of move about the cabin freely, I guess, in a sense.

Nick McGowan (03:41.61)

I do think there are a lot of people that really find it difficult for themselves to be able to wrap their heads around what it is that they have a problem with. And they just kind of like to complain or like to be in pain about that certain thing instead of doing something about it. But let’s actually kick this off properly, Ben. So why don’t you tell us what you do and maybe something that people don’t know about you that’s a little odd or bizarre.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (04:06.646)

Well, I have a background in organizational leadership and talent development that involves executive and career coaching. Been doing this for about a decade for, since I got out of my doctorate though, it was about six years ago. That’s when we started focusing on working with leaders to help them become the leader of their own career. We’re really, you know, we really focus on leadership coaching that puts your career first. So a lot of leadership coaches will just focus on executive presence, executive communication, how to give feedback, how to delegate, how to coach. Well, that’s.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (04:35.95)

That’s what we do, but we don’t do that first. We go into with the, go into kind of what is, what is the career that this client wants? What is the brand that they want to represent outside of their job? How do we train them to be self leaders within this professional world that they operate in, that we all operate in and let go of some limiting beliefs that they might have. I also help create organizations that allow people to thrive in this way. And something that I love and some people might think that that’s weird.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (05:03.975)

It won’t be the weird thing that I share. I’ll pause for a second and see if you have any questions about what I do before I dive into the weirdness.

Nick McGowan (05:12.607)

Well, as a fellow podcaster, I appreciate that you always give space and you know how to be able to have these conversations. That’s something else you didn’t add to the list. But

Nick McGowan (05:23.142)

There’s a lot that we can get into specifically about how you got into wanting to help leaders and your path to being able to get there and then some of the things that you can do because I Believe a lot of the people that listen to this show are leaders in some way they’re either leaders in their family and In the office or in their own businesses or nonprofits or whatever it is, but

Nick McGowan (05:42.93)

I believe that we’re all looking for some way to be able to grow and be leaders, at least of ourself, which is true self mastery. Now what’s that weird thing that people don’t know about you? That’s a little odd or bizarre.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (05:55.15)

few different weird things. The one I’m gonna pick because it’s coming up and I’m trying to figure out how I’m gonna get my camper van to go do this weird thing down to this area. I’m looking at the propane tank that’s built in and I’m like, I don’t know how much I trust you, but we’re gonna get that checked out. So I went to Burning Man. There was a…

Dr Benjamin Ritter (06:16.19)

event called Renegade Burn. It was kind of when they did not have the official Burning Man. It was when things started to open up but events weren’t still that official. So I went out there and experienced what it was like to be in the middle of the Playa without any sort of organization or rules and then went back for the official one and now going back again. And it is an adult playground and I’m actually going to be leading a workshop there on living for yourself this go-round. So excited for that and some people might not know that about me.

Nick McGowan (06:33.824)

Hmm.

Nick McGowan (06:45.314)

No, I’m sure different people have different thoughts when they think of Burning Man and different things that they just automatically assume. I’ve personally never been to Burning Man. I’ve had friends that have gone, friends that have also gone to different variations of it, or I believe there’s one that’s in New Mexico that is like the original one or something close to it or whatever.

Nick McGowan (07:06.934)

But I think it’s super cool that you do that. And it’s, from what I know of you, it makes a ton of sense for you to be like, and now I’m actually setting up a class there and we’re gonna teach people and work through stuff. But what led you to go to Burning Man? And being honestly, what led you to be able to set it up for a class to do at one of these? Like, what are you hoping to get out of it?

Dr Benjamin Ritter (07:30.038)

Well, my top values are health, openness, adventure. It kind of all relates to that type of an event, community. So Burning Man itself lives off of a set of principles. It is.

Nick McGowan (07:40.694)

Mm-hmm.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (07:45.662)

It is not a festival when some people call it. It is more, it’s an event. It’s a community that gets built for a couple of weeks out in the middle of nowhere. It has its own postal code. It’s focused on development and growth and connection and experiences and novelty.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (08:05.21)

And so for me personally, it hits all the boxes of the things that I wanted to at least experience within my life. I’m someone that looks for novelty, that looks for growth, that looks for uniqueness. You ask me if I want to go to a local DJ show or a bar and just kind of hang out, I’m going to say probably not. And unless it’s going to be some of my best friends there and I’m going to the volume is going to be low enough where I can have a conversation.

Nick McGowan (08:29.314)

Mm-hmm.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (08:30.422)

Like I organize these monthly happy hours now because I want to create community. And they’re in places where we, they’re like, contrived to build that community and get people to connect and to talk and not be distracted. And so going to this type of event is something that was on my list. I had some friends that are already there and part of a really cool camp that builds from scratch from the ground up fully autonomous electric vehicles. And so they have a build.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (08:58.962)

actually factory out in San Jose. They’re called TechnoGecko. They’re part of a non-profit called Dream Makers which provides the ability to learn about STEM, decarbonization, and engineering for free which is super cool. And to be able to get my hands dirty and to learn about what a drivetrain is and even just everything is just using a

Nick McGowan (09:17.463)

Hehehe

Dr Benjamin Ritter (09:22.442)

you know, just painting a certain way and the wrong ways to paint and the right ways to paint. They’re just like really great skills to know and a great community to be a part of. And so they invited me to join and I went down and really, really liked it. And so now I kind of helped do some fundraising for them. I throw different events and I might even reach out to you to see if there’s anything you want to donate, but uh,

Dr Benjamin Ritter (09:43.478)

It’s been a nice experience so far. Now, is that going to be an experience I’m going to want to do forever? Well, the novelty wear off while I find somewhere else that I want to spend my time, money and, and energy. Cause those are limited resources where at least time and time is out of those. I don’t know, but something new this year would be having a workshop and part of, part of the camp itself is that it can submit different workshops and, and such that it wants to give to the community that is there. And.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (10:10.198)

This is something that I want to give. I have a, I think a gift and a talent. It’s something that I love to do and hopefully get some people to explore some of the things that they’re holding themselves back from.

Nick McGowan (10:20.45)

I find it interesting that, you know, it could be really easy for me to just ask you a bunch of questions specifically about those events and things about the event. But because this show is mainly about our mindset and how we manage our lives pretty much, I’m always interested to know how have you gotten to that point where you’re like, the novelty is what I look for. I know that the novelty can wear off, but you’re going from thing to thing to thing. And how do you manage?

Nick McGowan (10:46.118)

not only being able to keep your mindset in a good place with things, but to understand when you’re actually just getting stuck in the novelty or looking for sort of a dopamine hit in a sense, just because of the novelty and maybe accepting things that are, that you shouldn’t be accepting or saying yes, those things. And this is primarily for the audience that goes through.

Nick McGowan (11:07.498)

those different situations where they find it hard to say no to things because they want that novelty or where they want the different experiences and they don’t want to miss out on it.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (11:17.014)

There’s two things there I think that happen with novelty. It’s one is the FOMO and the second is getting bored with something before you’re finished with it. I think what’s more what I’m more prone to is just getting bored with things and so what I’ve had to learn is to reconnect with the meaning that I feel from the things that I’m doing and the overall purpose and impact that they’re having.

Nick McGowan (11:21.011)

Mm-hmm.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (11:43.754)

Also making commitments for timelines for how long I’m going to commit to something has been really helpful as well. So one is internal and one is more of a kind of a tracker and accountability aspect, and then constantly also trying to see if there’s things that you can learn within the space that you’re a part of. Like, I don’t know if I’m going to get tired of coaching, but I’m not going to get tired of people becoming happier at work and being more proactive in their career.

Nick McGowan (11:54.947)

Hmm.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (12:13.226)

And so maybe it’s a different application of that interest.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (12:19.178)

now I may be interested in a different industry. I work with clients on this too. They go, I can’t go to this industry. I’m gonna lose everything I’ve done in this industry. Well, do you wanna, if you were an engineer, do you now wanna be a creative director? They’re like, no, I still wanna be an engineer. Well, you’re not really doing anything different. You’re actually building a career. You’re moving forwards in your career. You’re leveraging your skills and then you’re applying them to your interests. So that I think is totally fine.

Nick McGowan (12:29.036)

Mm-hmm.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (12:46.922)

And that is one way to take advantage of novelty while leveraging your skills. Now with the FOMO piece, that’s, that’s a little bit more tough. Cause we have to ask ourselves, where is that coming from? Is it a need, need for validation? Is it a need for greater connection? Are you running from something or running towards something? Do you want a life that isn’t real? Cause what you see online is not what you experience in real life.

Nick McGowan (12:51.734)

Hmm.

Nick McGowan (12:59.725)

Yeah.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (13:18.458)

And, and are you devaluing present because you think that there’s something else that you could be experiencing right now. There’s some interesting studies on happiness, very little to do with what you’re doing, a lot more to do with how connected you are to what you’re doing and how present you are. And so for me personally, I mean, I’ve, I’ve worked in one more thing, I’ve worked in hospitality for 10 years. I’ve been up for many, many sunrises.

Nick McGowan (13:37.794)

Yeah.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (13:46.546)

you know, and I’ve been in front of a lot of music. And so those types of things don’t interest me as much anymore, but they used to. And I have friends in my life that are younger than me, about a decade younger than me. And that’s where they want to spend their time. And I see them out and I really want to spend time doing what they’re doing. And it’s not actually that I want to spend time with them. The problem is.

Nick McGowan (14:08.192)

Mm-hmm.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (14:09.55)

They currently haven’t had the level of experiences that I’ve had in life. And so they’re not ready to move on from those experiences. And if I want to spend time with them, I have to find other ways, spend time with them that I’m going to enjoy and accept the fact that that’s not something that I, that what they’re doing isn’t something that I want to actually be doing with my time.

Nick McGowan (14:29.89)

Hmm. So with what you’re doing specifically for leaders, there’s

Nick McGowan (14:36.374)

the FOMO, but also the imposter syndrome that has a, it’s like a crazy cocktail that some people can feel like they have to take every single day. They’re missing out on all these things and they feel like they have to hit all these targets that are super hard to hit and not actually real. So along the lines of that FOMO, in accordance with what you actually do, how do you walk people through that and how do you help them be able to get to the awareness for themselves, even in those moments?

Dr Benjamin Ritter (15:03.162)

And most of the leaders I work with want, you know, it’s a hundred X their income. They want the new car, they want the new house, they want to not work. They want all these things they think that they want. They want to achieve more, because that’s what that motivates them. Achievement motivates them. And it’s, there’s two parts to really understanding, well, more than two, but just for the sake of our conversation.

Nick McGowan (15:15.267)

Mm-hmm.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (15:30.838)

So it’s highlighting what’s really important to them. So actually taking them through their values and having them define them and explore and then align them to the left. So what actions represent these values? So highlighting where meaning comes from, what they truly value. The second piece though is actually trying to understand what amount of money they really need and what amount of time they’re willing to spend earning that amount of money.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (15:57.118)

and what things they really want. Because hey, if you want that really awesome, beautiful car because you love cars and that car is the price of a house, then that’s your choice. But let’s talk about the reasons why you want it. Let’s talk about the amount of money it’s gonna cost. Let’s figure out how to earn that type of money. Let’s talk about the time it’s gonna take to make that money. Let’s talk about the experiences you’re gonna have with that car when you get it. Like there’s a lot of different aspects or factors that come from wanting things that

Dr Benjamin Ritter (16:26.402)

are materialistic. And so part of it is, okay, why do you really want this? And what do you really care about? And then if you want this, this is what you’re going to have to do to get it. So walking them through that, that procedure, I don’t care what you want. I just care that you acknowledge why you want it and how you’re going to have to work towards getting it. Because the last thing we want is to sit in envy, to sit in lust, and to sit wanting things that we actually aren’t going to go after or have, because that’s just a waste of time.

Nick McGowan (16:57.539)

It can be really easy to be able to lie to ourselves about what we want, thinking of this is what I wanted before, or this is really about what my winning strategy tells me will get me ahead in life.

Nick McGowan (17:10.866)

when we go through that, it can be good to be able to talk with somebody about it. But do you also have people that at times are like, yeah, I hear you. But no, I really want this thing because I really, really want it. And you can tell that they’re not able to get past that layer. They need to be able to understand that. Well, you want it because you think of you’ll have prestige or whatever it may be where you may have love or whatever, and they just can’t really get there. How do you help those people actually get to that point without being like, look, you’re fucking missing it. We need to get here.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (17:41.174)

It’s not my job to tell you. I mean, I can tell you that you’re missing it, but if you want something, then you should go get it. Life, it’s called live for yourself consulting. I want you to live for yourself. Now it should be aligned to your values. So if your values are integrity and trust and health, but you feel to make the amount of money you need, you need to work for a tobacco manufacturer and you have to work.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (18:10.73)

90 hours a week, whatever. You basically have to sacrifice your values to achieve what you want to earn in life. And you’re stressed and you don’t know why. You’re not sleeping and you don’t know why. You can’t have a real conversation or connect to people and you don’t know why. My job is to throw that in your face and say, look at this. This is what you say you want. This is who you are. This is what’s happening in your life. This is the cause of it, the instigator of it. Do you want to change that? If you don’t want to change that, then there’s why we’re not working together.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (18:39.818)

Because people I worked with are the ones that want to change that. And so, but if you really want that new car, I have great go for that car. And you’re willing to sacrifice the time with your family or relationships or to put added burden and stress on yourself at work to go achieve it. Great. That’s fine. Let’s make those conscious choices. Now, most of the time you actually don’t have to make a whole ton of sacrifice to get what you want. I think one of the big things I work with leaders on is how to actually be productive and efficient.

Nick McGowan (18:43.554)

Mm-hmm.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (19:10.618)

And a lot of it depends on letting go of expectations for yourself and worrying about how other people are going to think about you. I think that’s a little bit bigger than what we’re talking about. Because, hey, if you, again, if you want that thing, go after that thing. I think it’s important that we feel accomplished, even if it’s for validation, for some materialistic things, as long as we’re doing it in a way that serves us.

Nick McGowan (19:34.442)

Hmm. Do you think there’s always a way that can serve you even if you’re not actually letting yourself go through the emotional layers and the traumatic layers to understand this is really why I want this thing, even if it’s somebody who’s like, well, I was beaten up in high school and I need to show and prove to myself that this is it when really the underlying thing is, is not having shame and understanding that you’re okay.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (19:58.318)

But who we, if it’s not detracting from your life or your relationships, we all are products of our upbringing and experiences and relationships. Like we, who am I, who I am is based on all the things that I’ve experienced in life. My life, unless my life is bad, it will not be any better for me understanding that.

Nick McGowan (20:11.703)

Mm-hmm.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (20:18.35)

Like if I’m happy with my life and I’m not sad or stressed or frustrated or wondering why I’m stuck, like I don’t need to know all those things that happened to me. And if I’m able to be a master of myself, which is what we’re talking about, but I don’t think we’re talking about that. I think we’re slightly talking about the fact that I’m not happy with my life and what’s going on. Now, first step is great. So for example,

Nick McGowan (20:33.603)

Mm-hmm.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (20:44.838)

I’m not happy with how my body looks or I’m not happy with the job that I have. Great. Go apply for another job. Okay. Well, okay. I can’t apply for a job. I’m working with a client. I can’t. I don’t feel I’m good enough to apply for these jobs. I’m reading through these descriptions and they don’t seem like I apply. I’m going to great. You know what? No one really

Dr Benjamin Ritter (21:07.406)

the descriptions don’t really matter except for how you write your resume. Don’t worry, I’ll write your resume for you. Let’s go apply for those jobs. Oh, thank you for answering that question. Person still doesn’t apply for those jobs. Okay, we talked to them and you go, what’s really going on? What happened in your life that made you not think that you’re good enough for yourself? And so there’s like layers. You don’t have to go to the past until the past decides to be the reason why you’re not moving forwards in life.

Nick McGowan (21:33.678)

Sure. Yeah, I get that.

Nick McGowan (21:37.986)

It’s not always about actually digging the stuff back up, but making sure that you clear the stuff out. And if there’s something that’s deeper there to be able to move through it. It’s interesting how we as leaders really feel like we have to be a certain way, even if it’s not something that we automatically take on, it’s just based on the system that we’ve been kind of taught and worked through. So do you have people that you work with that are really of an old, let’s say mindset or come from an old system mentality of, well, my dad taught me to be this way as a leader

Nick McGowan (22:07.12)

or I learned from some boss at some point, this is how you be a leader. And it’s just not working for them and kind of getting through it to figure out what works for them.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (22:18.55)

Everything I do with my clients is about defining who they are and then what they want their brand to be. And then how we can make that brand into a meaningful career. And all of us are who we are because of our past. Now, if you were to look at some of the CEOs I work with, especially from family owned businesses, they are 100% a product of their family environment.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (22:46.186)

My dad led this way, so I have to lead this way. And a lot of what we do is detaching themselves from that identity and redefining themselves as a CEO of the company that they are now. But you can say that for any position. I am the leader that I am because of all the books that I read, because of all the podcasts that I’ve listened to, because of the terrible leaders that I had growing up. And so it can be a good thing when we use comparison to grow instead of define us.

Nick McGowan (22:48.68)

Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (22:59.822)

sure.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (23:15.514)

And so all of us have expectations of leadership based on our experiences. But do we know what type of leader we want to be? And then if we do, it doesn’t matter what experiences we’ve had, because then we leverage those experiences to either motivate us or to not be that way or to learn from them. But that end goal is really important, that vision of who we are, that vision that we want to be. Self mastery comes from knowing where we want to go.

Nick McGowan (23:40.898)

Mm-hmm.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (23:44.35)

not exactly maybe what we’ll get to, but at least where we want to go.

Nick McGowan (23:47.15)

Mm-hmm Yeah, so with your background and how you got to this point Why don’t you tell us are there any like key pivotal moments that you walk through that you can feel looking back now? We’re you’re like that led me to what I’m doing today or was a major shift in the way that you lived your life

Dr Benjamin Ritter (24:06.114)

Couple of them. So, wanted to be a professional soccer player growing up. Took all my sense of self from how I performed on the field, did not perform really well. Developed some pretty terrible issues of self-confidence that led to an eating disorder, that led to an obsession with food.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (24:27.578)

Eventually lost soccer, lost my identity, still struggled with my mental health and confidence. So then just took it upon myself to learn how to cure myself and to identify, to define who I was. So I dove into personal development. I dove into mental health. I dove into social psychology. Lo and behold, four or five years later,

Dr Benjamin Ritter (24:50.846)

I am completely confident with who I am as an individual. I know my values. I founded support groups for people that were struggling with what I struggled with. I conquered everything that I felt was holding me back and I was exploring the world. So that taught me about the field of coaching and that led me to meet a person at a bar randomly who asked me to run their men’s programs across the United States. And so that led me to be a personal development coach, dating coach.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (25:20.622)

During that time I was trying to do different things in my career and I ended up networking. I met someone working behind a bar because I was earning some money trying to

Dr Benjamin Ritter (25:35.19)

trying to pay my way when I couldn’t find a full-time job. I met someone across the bar, ended up hiring me for my first full-time job in healthcare. I bring up healthcare because I was selected for an emerging leaders program when I really hated working where I was. I was really resentful towards the job itself. And that emerging leaders program put me in touch with a mentor who was doing similar work to what I’m doing today.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (25:57.662)

And everyone around me, I really did not respect. I had terrible leaders at the time. And the only person that I really looked up to was this person, this individual. So this human being who came from networking across from a bar that I was at the time, he showed me a potential career path that I didn’t know existed. And a way to fix the experiences I was having with my own professional development. So I asked him about how to do that type of work and that led me down this path.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (26:26.698)

And at the same time I was coaching and when I was got the nerve to leave the current job I was at from healthcare, I also had the nerve to leave my business because it was not something I was aligned with at the time, a different area of coaching and made the decision to go exploring again to what I actually really wanted to do with my talents and my skills and what I wanted to learn. That led me to a doctoral program.

Nick McGowan (26:38.904)

Hmm.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (26:50.818)

That led me to studying values, which is something that I hold very dear to myself and job satisfaction, published some research and that also down, you know, been on that professional journey and that path ever since. And so now I kind of have this combination with how I work with clients of personal and professional development that encompasses the entire individual, which is why I say, you know, I’m leadership coaching that also focuses on your career.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (27:16.43)

But underlying all that is just an understanding of how we work as humans, which I think everything, every problem is a personal problem. I can tell you all the tactics that, you know, I can throw them at your head. I think they’re all online. Doing them, understanding them, incorporating them, letting them become part of who you are takes that understanding of the human.

Nick McGowan (27:43.363)

Do you get into personality typing as well and helping people understand what their personality is and maybe what their core woundings are and some of the things that they default back to?

Dr Benjamin Ritter (27:54.242)

I have some certifications and leadership assessments, but…

Dr Benjamin Ritter (28:01.93)

So assessments are wonderful because they give people the language to describe themselves.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (28:10.146)

but they’re about as good as tarot cards, in my opinion. They can be useful again, to give you the language to understand yourself. But 99% of the time, people do nothing with them. And so I’ve found more effectiveness by working with an individual on their perception of themselves, on feedback from the people around them, preferably a 360.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (28:36.778)

and then integrating development in that way. Because an assessment doesn’t, it may offer some strategies and some action steps. But if I walk up to you and you’re not ready to hear something and you’re not ready to work on something, doesn’t matter how many times I tell you that it’s part of who you are.

Nick McGowan (28:55.082)

Yeah. That makes sense. And especially for you to be able to understand, yeah, from the perspective of an assessment can tell you one thing or a handful of things that you can do something with it. It’s ultimately about understanding yourself and how you perceive things. Your perception is your reality anyway. So if somebody says, yeah, well, I, I still perceive it this way. Then even if there’s something else that’s tied to it, that’s still the way that they’re perceiving it. So it’s interesting you go that route.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (29:21.686)

The problem with assessments is that people use them as crutches. So coaching is a little different. Coaching goes, what do you want to accomplish? Great. Let’s work towards that. Okay. What’s getting in your way? Let’s work towards that. How do we develop you into an individual to continue on, even if you change what you want to accomplish based on what we’ve learned so far. Assessments go, this is who you are.

Nick McGowan (29:25.148)

Mm-hmm.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (29:49.518)

That’s not what we want as a belief.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (29:54.45)

If you ever define yourself as being a certain type of person, you have now limited yourself forever. Can’t tell you how many times someone goes to me and they go, I’m just, I’m just an analytical type of person. I don’t, I’m not an empathetic. I can’t do this. Do that. I can’t do this. No, no, no. You 100% can.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (30:19.23)

And operating in our world requires you to flex a certain way if you want to reduce the stress of certain environments. As a leader, if you cannot flex, you will still be successful, but it’s going to be, you’re not going to be successful in certain companies. You’re going to struggle with certain relationships. You’re going to bang your head against the wall at times wondering why something isn’t working. We have to take away this concept that we’re just living in a box.

Nick McGowan (30:34.594)

Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (30:46.986)

Mm-hmm.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (30:47.946)

I guess we could equate that to, what is it, Carol Dweck’s growth mindset or work there. I think we have to take that into consideration.

Nick McGowan (30:52.844)

Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (30:57.766)

Oh yeah. Especially if somebody uses anything as a crutch. Wow. I mean, we could look and say, well, we’re told that the sky is blue and that’s the color of it. That’s the common consensus between everybody. But really you should still kind of question that and specifically within ourselves to go, is this how I am? No matter what the actual personality is or whatever the thing is.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (31:19.682)

So I’ve gotten feedback at every single job I’ve ever worked at that I need to be more enthusiastic.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (31:31.306)

I get it. I don’t have I’m pretty calm at times. And don’t get very don’t get energized about a lot of things. And I could I could say back to them, well, sorry. I’m just this way. And that would be fine. I would be successful in my career.

Nick McGowan (31:35.383)

Mm-hmm.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (31:58.466)

But for me to ignore that statement and to ignore the fact that I’m impacting people a certain way, when I can get really animated and turn it on and have so much fun in front of people and get on a stage and use my voice to my advantage and get people excited, I think for me not to do that is doing myself a disservice and limiting my potential in life.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (32:21.866)

Sorry if I messed up all your levels, but like I totally just wanted-

Nick McGowan (32:24.055)

No, you’re totally good. And that, it’s funny how you think that messes up the levels. You went up just a little bit. I mean, your energy changed a little bit and there was the intent there, but you’re good. Don’t get into the red zone. Don’t get distorted.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (32:30.018)

Okay. I was trying to be a little careful. I was watching the little bars.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (32:39.51)

Yeah, but I mean like jumping on stage and moving around, you know, doing, doing the rah kind of stuff people get, you have to know how it impacts people and you have to know you impact people. And part of it too is, you know, for that feedback is understanding where that feedback comes from is that feedback comes from the fact that people don’t understand how I feel sometimes. Then people don’t understand how you feel it makes them uncomfortable.

Nick McGowan (33:02.239)

Yeah, and they have an expectation. Oh, you’re supposed to be this way. I know I’ve experienced that growing up being from the Northeast, from Philadelphia. I figured that you have to be animated. You have to yell and scream and just curse constantly. I still curse constantly, but most everything else was all just a story that everybody kept telling themselves. So it’s interesting when somebody’s like, you need to be more this. Go, great. So you really have a problem with that and you need to be able to work through that.

Nick McGowan (33:29.398)

That’s a bit of a different topic. Um, but it’s interesting. Those people that get up and put a mask on there’s, I think the balance of being able to put the mask on, understand that it’s still you within the mask and then just being completely inauthentic. Like when you call some customer service and they’re like, hello, this is Jim. You’re like, really? Is it, is it really Jim? You know, and like, I don’t, is that how you really are?

Nick McGowan (33:55.358)

And like, you want to be able to talk to somebody like at a bar. And you’ve brought that up a handful of times. Being able to have a real authentic conversation or at least low grade conversation of like, Hey, how is it? How’s it going? What’s with you? What’s this? What’s that? Instead of, and still having that balance where you don’t want somebody from customer service, be like, Hey, what’s up? So, I mean, sometimes I can break the ice pretty well. People at Starbucks typically do that. Hey man, what’s going on? What’s up? Like, you know, I’m here for coffee. Can I place an order?

Dr Benjamin Ritter (34:26.89)

I would love the next person I go up to in a store to be like, what up, man? How you doing? It’s good to see you.

Nick McGowan (34:33.718)

I bought bikes a few weeks ago and we walked in the guy was like, Hey, what’s going on? What’s up? Like, we want to buy a couple of bikes, talk to somebody about this. It’s like, all right, cool. Yeah, yeah, let’s go over here. But it was like such an interesting. Yeah. It’s like, all right, cool. Where’d let’s go. Well, Ben, it’s been awesome to have you on before I let you go. I want to ask what’s that one piece of advice that you’d give somebody that’s on their path towards self mastery?

Dr Benjamin Ritter (34:46.563)

You’re in the right place.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (35:03.286)

It’s a path. That’s it. It’s a path. Keep walking. You can stop, you can smell the roses, you can walk backwards. You can stop and think that you’re done. Guess what? You’re not. You’re not until maybe you’re six feet under or however you wanna be, however you wanna go.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (35:29.278)

It is a constant journey. And we have to and I mentioned this in the beginning, we have to remember that everything we do in life is to pay for the things we want to do. You know, it’s like, and then experience the things that we want to do. So we have like, two things, we have, how do I make money? How do I have fun making that money? And then what am I going to do when I’m with that money? And so when we’re talking about self mastery, just like remember,

Dr Benjamin Ritter (35:57.902)

things really aren’t that serious. Nobody knows what the reason is for anything. And so you have to decide on what that reason is yourself. And the reason that you choose should at least be something that serves you and serves the people around you. So if the way that you’re living your life is not, then we need to check out that path that you’re on.

Nick McGowan (36:24.214)

Well put. I appreciate that. And especially to be able to understand that it is a path and you can move about however you want on that path. So Ben, it’s been awesome to have you on, uh, where can people find you and where can they connect with you?

Dr Benjamin Ritter (36:37.174)

I’m based in Austin, Texas. If you’re ever down this way, come say hi. You can also find out more about my work at liveforyourselfconsulting.com, liveforyourselfconsulting.com. You can also look me up on LinkedIn. Dr. Benjamin Ritter, send me a connection request. Let me know that you heard me here.

Nick McGowan (36:56.006)

Awesome again, man. It’s been a pleasure to have you on. Appreciate your time.

Dr Benjamin Ritter (36:59.094)

Happy you have been here. Thanks for having me.

Nick McGowan (37:06.638)

All right, good stuff.

In this episode, Nick talks about the “shoulds” and the “should nots” we subscribe to in our lives.

What to listen for:

“It’s almost like fighting with your Dharma and fighting with what you feel called to do within your life. But if you feel like you should work at a job or you should go do this thing because you were told that if you do that, you’ll have safety and security, well. You should know that safety and security really aren’t true.”

“Think about the things that you have done over the course of your life that you felt you should do. And why do you feel or did you feel that you should do those things?”

About Nick McGowan

I’m Nick McGowan, entrepreneur, podcaster, and mental health advocate, and I’ve been on a 20+ year journey of personal development, learning to master my mindset, emotions, and the art of living with purpose.

As a Mindset and Self-Mastery Mentor, I work with ambitious men and women who want to live their most authentic and joyous life, by helping them master their mindset, emotional awareness, and authentic communication. My mission is to empower people to lead lives that feel aligned, grounded, and truly their own.

Throughout my career, I’ve built teams, streamlined systems, and improved client experiences across SaaS, media, marketing, and personal development spaces. Whether I’m leading cross-functional projects, optimizing SEO, Podcasting, designing strategies, or guiding clients through transformation, I bring a hands-on, solution-focused approach to everything I do.

I’m also the host of The Mindset and Self-Mastery Show, where my guests and I unpack the stories that shape us, challenge us, and ultimately guide us back to who we are at our core. On this show, we uncover the secret gems others have discovered through trial, error, and breakthroughs so you can fast-track your growth, and master your mindset on your pursuit toward self-mastery. 

With years of podcasting and two decades of marketing experience, I’ve mastered the storytelling, interview flow, strategy, and technical production that elevate a podcast from “just content” to something truly impactful. Whether you’re a leader looking to amplify your message, or a seasoned speaker and podcast host looking to sharpen your edge or even a beginner who is wondering how to share their message, I mentor thought leaders through every step of having the conversation they’re here to have on this planet.

So, what message are you here to share?!

Resources:

Check out these other episodes and resources to learn more about making changes after we understand why we’re doing what we should / should not do

Episode #77: Having Grace With Ourselves During Our Growth Stages And Our Off Seasons

Episode #63: How One Simple Question Changed Kevin’s Life Forever

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? Send Nick an email or schedule a time to discuss your podcast today!

[email protected]

Thank you for listening!

Please subscribe on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089

Watch Clips and highlights: www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA

Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Nick McGowan (00:16.991)

Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self-Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan, and today on the show, I’m gonna talk about the shoulds and the should nots. And what I mean by that is the things that we’ve gone through in life that we’ve been told we should do, and the things that we’ve been told we shouldn’t do. Now, as a little kid,

There are times where you’re told, hey, you shouldn’t put your hand on the stove. It’s pretty hot, it’s gonna fucking hurt you. And maybe you didn’t learn right off the bat. Maybe you had to put your hand on the stove. I think I was one of those kids. I was one of those kids that had to actually put my hand on the stove to be like, I don’t really know if I trust what you’re saying, but how? And then you learn from that.

but there are deeper shoulds, like you should go to college, you should get a job, you should get married, you should have kids, you shouldn’t, I mean there are major things like you shouldn’t kill people, you shouldn’t do crazy drugs, crazy drugs, you shouldn’t cheat on somebody.

But then there are things that are kind of softer shoulds and should nots. Like you shouldn’t do it that way. You really shouldn’t. Or I wouldn’t do that, so you shouldn’t. And you should do it this way, because I would. And that’s great. That’s how somebody does their own life. But when we think about the shoulds and the should nots.

And wouldn’t you actually break down what you’ve gone through in life? I’ve brought up different times that in high school, I was told that you should go to college. So I sat down with a counselor. And then I was told, well, we can put you in a music school or an art school, but you’re not gonna make any money and probably gonna be a starving artist. I’m sure they didn’t add that, but that’s what I thought. And I thought, well, I don’t really wanna do that. It’s not how I want life to look.

And then when I got out of high school, I thought I should do something specific. I should do something that gets me away from where I was. And there are lots of people that go to college because they feel they should go to college. They feel this is what I’m supposed to do. And I’m sure people in the 1500s, 1600s or…even 40 years ago, and weren’t like, yeah, maybe I should do this. But on that note…people maybe 40 years ago really thought you should go to college because after that you get out, you have a degree, a piece of paper that says that you should be good enough to work at a company and that company should keep your ass around for the next 40 years. Then they should give you a pension so that you can retire and you should be able to live off of that. That’s not really how this works at this point.

And there are all the things that are going on right now about Biden being able to give money back to people or not being able to give money back to people for their student loans, people that are still going to college, people that are doing things because they feel they should do them. And I ask why? Why do you feel that you should do those things? For the most part, a lot of people, I think…

have an external should. Like, well, my parents told me that I should go to college. My parents told me that I should get a great job, or that I should be a doctor, or I should be a lawyer, or I should be this, I should be that. What the fuck do you wanna do, though? Like, what is it? What is it that you feel you should do? Are there times where you feel like, I’m doing this, let’s just say, job, and I don’t really feel like I wanna be here anymore?

Now there’s a difference between just not feeling something and just not wanting to be in that moment, like not to do that thing. There are other times where specifically you shouldn’t be there. There I go, using the word shouldn’t. And why I say that is because you aren’t supposed to be there. You’re supposed to be doing something else. Now that something else may not be 100% clear to you.

Sometimes it may be and you’re just fighting with it. It’s almost like fighting with your Dharma and fighting with what you feel called to do within your life. But if you feel like you should work at a job or you should go do this thing because you were told that if you do that you’ll have safety and security, well.

You should know that safety and security really isn’t true. Anything could happen. We could end up being in a post-apocalyptic world before this episode even comes out. We have no idea. You should be able to understand what you actually want to do. But look, it’s not easy. It’s difficult to be able to figure it out. It’s difficult to understand what you really want to do in life.

So whatever age you’re at, if you’re somebody who listens to this show and you’re in your early 20s or you’re somebody who listens and you’re in your early 90s, think about the things that you have done over the course of your life that you felt you should do. And why do you feel or did you feel that you should do those things?

Now for me, stepping back to high school, when they told me, you’re probably not gonna make money and I read it as, you’re probably gonna be a starving artist and that’s not gonna help you actually live a life, then I thought, well maybe I should do something different. And I remember meeting some people that told me you should do this sort of business. You can talk to anybody about anything, you can sell, as my mom would say, ketchup popsicle to a lady in white gloves, which was always so strange.

but that I could sell things and I could talk to people and that therefore I should use that gift to be able to talk to people and sell them things. And I should be able to make lots of money to do lots of great things that, in retrospect, I really didn’t give two fucks about at all. I remember getting out of high school and thinking, well, I should try to pursue this music thing.

And I did to an extent. And then when it all started to die and just drip away, then I thought, well, I don’t want to be a starving artist. And I should probably do something different. And that’s where those people came into play that told me I should do things differently. And to get away from the way that I was raised and the lack of money that I had and the

lack of skills that I had because I didn’t go to college. That all told me that I should look at things that I can do that are outside of those other means. I felt I was a bit, almost disabled by not going to college because I felt like other people.

were doing things that they wanted to do. But I realized that they weren’t. Some of them were. Some of them went to college. They did the thing they wanted to do. But some of them, we may find out in 20 or 30 years that they were like, that was all complete bullshit. I didn’t want to do any of it. I got out. I didn’t do anything that I wanted to do. I have a friend that went to music school. And I remember him telling me years after he got out of music school, he was like, I now feel like I went to Hogwarts. I learned all this magic. And I got out.

I’m around a bunch of muggles and I can’t really use my magic and I can’t really get paid for my magic. Now he’s still actually using his magic which is great and I think he gets paid somewhat but that’s not what his occupation is because we are told in our society that we should do specific things. You should get jobs. You should get a job like this based on your skill set.

So when I thought and accepted the should that I should do things, I followed that skill set. And I thought, well, I should do this. And then years later, maybe 10, 15 years later, I remember thinking, I don’t think I want to do this. And this isn’t how I want to go about life. And now here I am, 21 years after high school.

And I’ve realized that I’ve spent the past 20 years or so following that should to get away from the shouldn’ts and the should nots of the world. And really, what it did was fuck with me. Fuck with my mind. Fuck with the way that I really feel into life. And because of the shoulds that have come up over the course of my life.

and my acceptance of those and saying, well, I don’t want to go that way, or I don’t want to go backwards. Maybe I should do this. It now has me in a spot where I’m looking at everything that I’ve done over the past, let’s say 20 years, and wondering why I did any of it.

Now I’m not regretting what I’ve gone through. I’m not regretting even the bad things that I’ve gone through. Because I believe everything compounds on itself, and if we can learn from everything, we should. There’s that word again. Because it’s an opportunity. And I look at it as even a responsibility to be able to understand what we’ve gone through and learn from those things.

But even today, I still struggle with some insecurities and some fears and even with the core wounding that I have all the way back to when I was a kid because I was told you should do things this way or you shouldn’t do things this way. So this episode is really about us taking those words of should and should not and understanding what we feel is right for us.

Look back at what you’ve done over the course of your life and think, why did you do those things? Are those things that you were told you should do? And what is it about those things that you’ve done, be it going to college, getting married, getting a job, doing whatever it was, to be able to understand why you did those things?

and why you accepted the should for it as it was for face value. Now if it came from a parent or somebody that you love and trust, it can be really easy to take advice from those people and take what they say as kind of gospel. Shit, even with what I say.

If you know, like, trust me, love me, hate me, whatever. If there are things that don’t sit with you, don’t let them sit with you. If there are things that make sense to you, then let them make sense. But ask the questions why. Why doesn’t it sit with me? Why does it make sense? Why have I been told that I should do this? And why do I not believe that? Or why do I believe that?

So as you go through, let’s say the next few days or even a week or two weeks, think about the things that come up that you feel you should do or you should not do. And take a beat, think about it for a second. Why do you feel that you should and you should not? What is it about those things that really has driven you to do whatever you’re doing at that point? Now,

fair warning, this could spiral you. If you’re in a hopeless marriage with several kids and you feel I should do all these things for my hopeless marriage and my kids, there’s a lot of unraveling that could come from that.

Nick McGowan (12:52.942)

And you’ll have to sit with that. And you’ll have to work through it. And you’re going to be okay. There are options that are out there. If you need coaching, reach out to me. I’d love to talk with you and at least have a free clarity session to see if it makes sense for us to work together and if I can help in any sort of way. If you need therapy, reach out to a therapist. If you just need to talk to a friend, talk to a friend.

Maybe talk to them about the things that you feel you should be doing, or maybe you should not be doing, and unpack the reasons why. Because if you just say, I should do this thing and that’s it, then you’re not getting it. And likewise with should not. But if you start to unpack the reasons why you feel you should be doing things, you’re able to step back to when it first came up.

and what impacted you in such a way to be able to do that. I’ve kept circling around this a little bit, but when I got out of high school and I went through the beginning stages of the music career and everything just basically imploded, I remember thinking, well, I should do something different.

I should use these skills that people told me that I have, and I should go sell things. And I’m naturally an entrepreneur, so I started to put that into use. I started to create different businesses, and service-based businesses. Even now, I have an agency that’s part of Choose Your Calling. That’s not my full calling in the world, but I know.

that I have the skills to be able to help people and to speak with people and to help cast a vision. But 20 years ago, I thought I just needed to sell things because I should use the skills that I have because that’ll make me a lot of money and it’ll get me away from sort of the poverty that I was in and that I shouldn’t ever go back to that.

I remember even saying, I don’t ever want to take a step backwards. And now I believe that there really aren’t steps backwards. There are steps that you take to be able to continue to move forward. But it doesn’t have to look the way that you’ve been told it should look. In fact, life is just going to look the way that it looks.

I had no idea 20 years ago that I’d be exactly where I am now, and as happy, yet as mindfucked as I am, because of all the things that I’ve done and I’ve gone through, and the amount of growth that I’ve gone through, and how aggressive you actually need to be in your growth.

And this is a lifelong experience. At least that’s what I feel. Not that I think it should be or it should not be, but I just think that it’s a lifelong learning experience. That’s what we’re here for. That’s a piece of what we’re here for. Deeper than that, there’s something that each and every one of us individually is here to do. It’s what our calling is. We get to choose to act upon that and to do the things that we want with that.

But you should not, and I know what I just said, you should not listen to somebody else that tells you should or should not do something if it doesn’t make sense to you. Even this last sentence, if this makes sense to you, great. If it doesn’t, great. But why? Figure out why.

And if you figure out that why, that’ll open up additional doors for you. If you think back to somebody told me I should do this, don’t as much think about why they said it because that’s a whole different thing. They may have their own traumas or experiences or what have you. Think about why that resonated with you or why it sat with you in the way that it did and why you did something with it. Separate from that emotion of it because if it’s a.

If it’s a hurtful thing or something that really brings up a lot of pain, you don’t have to sit in that pain, but you can understand where you were and what you had gone through at that point. So again, over the next few days or week or two weeks, think about the things that you should do and the things that you believe you should not do. And dive a little deeper into those. Figure out what those are, why those are, where they came from.

what really it means to you for you to do something that you feel you should do or that you should not do.

And again, if you have questions, you wanna unpack this a little bit more, or you really are just totally unsure of how to be able to do this on your own, reach out to me. I’d love to just talk and figure out what sort of ways can help you. If it’s coaching with me, great. If it’s coaching with somebody else like Stephanie, or if it’s anybody else that I know, great. If it’s just therapy, or just being able to wrap your head about

around about the whole situation of the things that you should do or should not do, then please reach out. If it’s not to me, reach out to somebody that you know or somebody that you trust to be able to talk about these things. In worst-case scenario, at least just talk about them with yourself and start to figure out why do you feel you should do these certain things. And likewise, why do you feel you should not? So I appreciate you being on…

on this show and listening to this episode today. I appreciate every time that you listen to any of these episodes. I’d love to hear your thoughts and your opinions on this, or even if you have questions about any of the topics that I get into or any topics that you’d like to hear about, not just with me, but with guests that I bring onto the show. So thank you again for being here and stay tuned for more to come.

Episode summary:

In this episode, Nick talks about reactions, specifically our first reaction, and how we can conquer that first reaction. It can either help you climb up a mountain, or it can have you just slide directly down the side of it.

What to listen for:

“There have been times where I’ve reacted to things and then thought afterward like oh, oh shit I probably shouldn’t have said that or I probably shouldn’t have done that or I probably shouldn’t have acted that way or I shouldn’t have felt like that. Can you relate?”

“Here I am, closer to 40, and there are times when somebody will say something to me, and I can feel that I’m triggered inside, and I can feel that the reaction is about to come out. And I’ve started over the past handful of years being able to really capture that energy as it’s getting closer to coming out.”

“When you think about the times that you’ve been through, where you’ve reacted to something in a way that you didn’t want to react, think about other times where you have reacted in a way that you wanted to react. Maybe you took that second. It may have even been subconscious. It may have been something that kind of knocked you off your rocker and you were like, whoa, I need a second to process through that.”

About Nick McGowan

I’m Nick McGowan, entrepreneur, podcaster, and mental health advocate, and I’ve been on a 20+ year journey of personal development, learning to master my mindset, emotions, and the art of living with purpose.

As a Mindset and Self-Mastery Mentor, I work with ambitious men and women who want to live their most authentic and joyous life, by helping them master their mindset, emotional awareness, and authentic communication. My mission is to empower people to lead lives that feel aligned, grounded, and truly their own.

Throughout my career, I’ve built teams, streamlined systems, and improved client experiences across SaaS, media, marketing, and personal development spaces. Whether I’m leading cross-functional projects, optimizing SEO, Podcasting, designing strategies, or guiding clients through transformation, I bring a hands-on, solution-focused approach to everything I do.

I’m also the host of The Mindset and Self-Mastery Show, where my guests and I unpack the stories that shape us, challenge us, and ultimately guide us back to who we are at our core. On this show, we uncover the secret gems others have discovered through trial, error, and breakthroughs so you can fast-track your growth, and master your mindset on your pursuit toward self-mastery. 

With years of podcasting and two decades of marketing experience, I’ve mastered the storytelling, interview flow, strategy, and technical production that elevate a podcast from “just content” to something truly impactful. Whether you’re a leader looking to amplify your message, or a seasoned speaker and podcast host looking to sharpen your edge or even a beginner who is wondering how to share their message, I mentor thought leaders through every step of having the conversation they’re here to have on this planet.

So, what message are you here to share?!

Resources:

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? Send Nick an email or schedule a time to discuss your podcast today!

[email protected]

Thank you for listening!

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Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Nick McGowan (00:09.782)

Hello and welcome to the mindset and self mastery show. I’m your host Nick McGowan. And today on the show, I’m going to talk about reactions and specifically the first reaction that you have and how you can conquer that first reaction. It can either help you climb up a mountain or it can have you just slide directly down the side of it. So when I think of reactions, I think of most people’s reaction is a real quick.

Nick McGowan (00:39.058)

Instinct where they just go. Hey, it’s this thing. It’s that thing. It’s whatever this thing may be and it’s something that to them is sometimes really difficult to be able to pinpoint why they reacted such a way or How they reacted I know specifically for me over the course of my life There have been times where I’ve reacted to things and then thought afterwards like oh, oh shit I probably shouldn’t have said that or I probably shouldn’t have done that

Nick McGowan (01:08.054)

or I probably shouldn’t have acted that way or I shouldn’t have felt like that. Can you relate? Have you had experiences where there have been times that you’ve just reacted and then afterwards you went, oh, I’m so sorry, I didn’t mean that. And you have to reel yourself back in or you have to go on an apology tour because you’ve said some crazy stuff to somebody or you did something wrong or you maybe physically went a little nuts.

Nick McGowan (01:36.406)

So how you react in that first split second is really going to affect what happens afterward. I’ll give you an example. If somebody were to punch you right in the face, what do you think you’d do? I know for me, if I got punched in the face, I would have that punch hit me. You know, let’s just say it. You take that hit and wonder why am I being hit and probably go back to attack that person that’s.

Nick McGowan (02:06.23)

that’s hitting me. That would have been my gut reaction throughout most of my life. I remember being in high school, getting into fights with people. As soon as a swing would pass my face or clip me in the jaw or whatever, I’d have both my fists up and instantly just start going crazy. That’s not the reaction that I want to have. I started to slide down the side of that mountain because of that.

Nick McGowan (02:34.698)

There was one in particular, I remember some kid that I hung out with and skated with, he was at a different school, maybe two, three towns away. He and a bunch of his cronies came to my school, walked in to the building, and started to walk up the steps. There was a flight of steps up, then a platform, then another flight going up, and then you’d be on the second floor. And I was…

Nick McGowan (03:01.606)

on that platform going down to the first floor and he was on the steps walking up. He said something to me about, I hear you talking shit or something like that. I mean, we were dumb kids and I don’t remember if I was, if I wasn’t, I was an asshole kid. So probably, but that didn’t give him right to be able to walk into the school and go after me and assault me, but we’re kids. So this is what happened. He walks up and he’s like, I hear you saying shit, blah, blah.

Nick McGowan (03:28.938)

and he goes to swing and I see him start to pull back and my reaction was just like, fuck that, I’m not gonna get hit. And I punched him in the face and knocked him all the way down. And then jumped, I don’t know, 10 steps, jumped on top of him and just started going crazy because my reaction was, I’m not gonna let him or his guys try to beat me up and I wanna show them I’m tougher than all of you and a little fucking crazy. And I think about that time often, even.

Nick McGowan (03:59.854)

20 years, 20 plus years after I graduated from high school and I think, man, that’s not what I wanted to do. That’s not how I wanted that to go down. It’s not the person I wanted to be. That’s not the reaction I wanted to have. And to think about it now, if that were to happen, I’d like to think that I would move away from it and try to either…

Nick McGowan (04:23.074)

hold him back or do something that would allow us to be able to have a conversation. I would like to think that most people as they get closer to 40 or even older can have a conversation even if they’re loud yelling screaming whatever you can be like alright hold up let’s talk about this because most people I would think don’t actually want to hurt somebody and they don’t want to go through the consequences of getting arrested or anything crazy like that.

Nick McGowan (04:52.534)

Now this is just one, one story that I have of being in different fights with people and having to react. I remember being jumped by five or six people that supposedly were my friends. And I remember getting hit the first time somebody tried to pull my shirt over my head, like they do in hockey fights and I wasn’t allowing it and I went berserk on them. That’s not the reaction that I want. I’m not, I’m not a fighter. I’m a lover we can say. And.

Nick McGowan (05:22.17)

I don’t want to actually react like that. But here I am, closer to 40, and there are times where somebody will say something to me and I can feel that I’m triggered inside and I can feel that the reaction is about to come out. And I’ve started over the past handful of years being able to really capture that energy as it’s getting closer to coming out. So if you think of…

Nick McGowan (05:45.57)

let’s say something kind of welling up from your belly or the middle of your chest and starting to come out and wanting to actually scream or whatever that looks like, you can capture that and you can stop it before it happens because that initial reaction is either gonna help you climb up that mountain or it’s just gonna send your ass directly down the side of it, just sliding down it, screaming, crying, and just being full of emotions. So one of the things that I’ve really understood

Nick McGowan (06:15.158)

is that you need to take a little bit of a step back. You need to take a beat. You need to just breathe for a second. And I’ve had different situations that have triggered me and I’ve allowed the trigger to touch a really sensitive spot and I react. I react in a way where I say something that’s flippin’ or it’s pretty much at this point, me just saying something or yelling something back.

Nick McGowan (06:44.926)

I don’t do anything physical anymore. It’s not like I throw stuff or I throw a fist at anybody or anything like that. Again, I’m more of a lover than a fighter and I’ve realized that. I’ve realized that ever since I was younger, but my reaction and the amount of energy that comes out will sometimes just make me so amped that I need to get that energy out. And I remember being in high school.

Nick McGowan (07:12.63)

and having so much energy and so much angst and so So much anger inside of me that I wouldn’t know what to do like I would hit walls or I would Throw things there was one time. I remember I punched a hole in the wall in my house Because i’m so angry and I had no idea how to handle it. I just Reacted to a situation and I went bam and just punched a hole in the wall and as soon as I did it I thought

Nick McGowan (07:42.71)

I didn’t want to do that. I don’t want to do that. And fuck, now I have to fix it. How am I going to fix this? And I remember my friend was with me and he looked and saw what I did and was like, why are you getting so angry and why did you just punch a hole in the wall? And I was like, uh, can you help? I’m sorry I’m so angry and I reacted, but can you help me patch this hole? I tried to hide it from my mom, but I remember.

Nick McGowan (08:10.058)

I don’t know, maybe like 15, 20 minutes into her being home, she was saying things. And it was like, Oh, by the way, the fuck is there a hole in the wall that you tried to patch up? It’s like, Oh, let me explain. She got upset. I reacted and there was yelling and screaming and all of that. And again, the reaction I slid down that mountain. So think about times, whether with your partner or in your work environment or with your family members or your kids or anybody that you come across.

Nick McGowan (08:39.934)

Maybe you’re out at a store or something and you see something where something happens to you and you’re triggered and that trigger sets off a reaction. It’s how you actually grab that reaction and what you do with it is important. So if it’s something that just comes out of you and you just start going crazy and maybe you’ll feel alright in the moment, just being able to be a little crazy, that’s not actually going to help you. Have you seen that in your experience? Can you relate to that?

Nick McGowan (09:09.078)

I’m sure you can think of a handful of different times where maybe you’ve reacted in such a way where you’re like, if I took a second, if I took even a minute or a nanosecond and thought through what was going on, then I wouldn’t have gone down that path and I wouldn’t have to apologize and I wouldn’t have to feel so bad and I wouldn’t have made somebody else feel bad and I wouldn’t have gone through all this craziness. So in those split seconds.

Nick McGowan (09:38.346)

when you are triggered by something, what you need to do to figure out how to react appropriately, the easiest way to go about it is to just take a beat. Just breathe for a second. Now I get it. I get it. That can be easier said than done. For me, even, it’s hard to do that at times. But when you feel that coming up and you feel like you’re triggered or you’re about to react to something, take a second. I’m telling you.

Nick McGowan (10:07.746)

The situation, in most every situation, will allow for you to take a second. And if somebody questions you taking a second to process through what’s going on, then you can tell them, look I need a second, I just need to process through this. Would you rather me freak out on you? Of course not. So give me a second. Just let me have this second to process through.

Nick McGowan (10:34.238)

When you think about the times that you’ve been through, where you’ve reacted to something in a way that you didn’t want to react, think about other times where you have reacted in a way that you wanted to react. Maybe you took that second. It may have even been subconscious. It may have been something that kind of knocked you off your rocker and you were like, whoa, I need a second to process through that. How you responded to that is really going to help.

Nick McGowan (11:03.554)

whole situation. Again, can you think about those different times that you’ve done that? Can you think about the experiences that you’ve had where you’ve gone through those different situations and things worked out better than maybe you thought they were going to? So how you reacted in the initial first handful of seconds is vastly important. Now I don’t want to just sit here and just tell you, look you need to calm down for a minute, you need to actually process through things.

Nick McGowan (11:31.786)

You’ll be alright and everything will work out. Okay really you need to be mindful of how you react to situations and Figure out why you are triggered why you’re about to react a different way. I had a situation happen recently where I felt like My whole world is flipped upside down because I was understanding how my winning strategy from what I’ve Created over the course of my entire life

Nick McGowan (12:00.79)

And what I thought was helping me win in life was really not. And it was really detracting me from the way that I could actually serve and live a life that I want to live. And I had a situation happen where I was called out about that. And I felt really defensive. I felt like I was poked in a soft spot.

Nick McGowan (12:26.89)

And I took a second.

Nick McGowan (12:30.99)

And I remember thinking in that moment, one, why am I feeling this way right now? And two, being pretty proud of myself for taking that, that moment and being able to react mindfully and being able to react with an intention that wasn’t a defensive intention or something that just replied back like I’m hurt.

Nick McGowan (12:59.702)

And I think an easy way to think about that is if you have a hot stove and you were to touch it, your body’s going to react and you’re going to pull your finger back, it’s going to snap back. You’re going to think, Oh my God, that hurts so bad. We all know that we pretty much don’t do that anymore in our adult years. You know, maybe you’ve done that as a, as a child where you’re like, is this thing warm? And you touch it and you’re like, Oh my God, it hurts so bad. And you’ll learn from that. You reacted in such a way.

Nick McGowan (13:29.386)

that you knew not to ever do that again. But we still do things like that in different scenarios. And it’s understanding what you do in that moment and really what has triggered you and what has.

Nick McGowan (13:47.054)

pushed your buttons in that way to make you want to react in that, that sort of situation. So I shared how I’ve had a recent moment where I was cool, calm, and collected, and I felt like I was triggered, but I took a second. Now there was also a time, also pretty recently, where that similar experience based on my winning strategy, I was triggered and I reacted in a way that I didn’t want to react.

Nick McGowan (14:17.066)

in the way that it made me have to apologize to my partner and to myself for the entire situation and it put me in a spot where I needed to actually go through and do more work on the situation and on my relationship than I first intended to. All because I took something, interpreted it the wrong way and I put a story behind it.

Nick McGowan (14:47.122)

almost instantly and just reacted in such a way that I wasn’t being true to myself and I wasn’t being true to my partner and I wasn’t being true to what my actual feelings were because it was a feeling of being triggered from something a long time ago and going through that situation sucked just straight up sucked and I remember thinking why couldn’t I just take that second?

Nick McGowan (15:16.998)

just process through. It’s not like she wouldn’t have allowed me to. It’s not like the entire situation wouldn’t have allowed me to. It was that I was in an immature moment just saying, I want to let this energy out. And it didn’t even feel like it was a conscious thought. It was just a reaction based on that trigger, which is similar again to like touching that hot stove and going, wow, this hurts.

Nick McGowan (15:45.842)

Instead of the, ow, this hurts. I started to throw verbal daggers at somebody or to defend myself or to get really amped in a negative way instead of being able to take that second and react a bit differently. So again, from the beginning of this, where I talked about, you think of the mountain that you’re climbing up, how you react, whether help you continue to climb.

Nick McGowan (16:14.79)

or it will just quickly push you down the side of the mountain and you’re going to slide all the way down to the bottom. It’s what we do in those key moments, the crucial moments, that crucial nanoseconds, let’s say, when you feel like you’re going to react in such a way where you hold it. You become aware of what the actual feeling is from. If your partner, if your coworker, if your kids…

Nick McGowan (16:44.686)

Again, if some rando says something to you and you’re about to react, you got to figure out why. Why do you want to react that way? Just like think about the situations where somebody says something and it has no meaning to you at all. Like you just don’t give a shit. Even if that person is really angry or really upset and they’re reacting in such a way, you’re like, well, this is kind of crazy. Why, why are they yelling? What’s their deal? I don’t feel anything from it.

Nick McGowan (17:12.013)

And there are other times where you do feel something from it and it comes from that trigger from years ago or Maybe it’s just the wrong time of the day because something happened and again, you’re just reacting to it But it’s so crucial for you to be able to take that quick second To figure out. All right, what’s actually going on here? What’s real in this situation? Why am I feeling this? Is it because of this situation? Is it because of something else?

Nick McGowan (17:41.79)

Is it because of some story that you’re coming up with or some story that you came up with years ago that is interpreting in your mind right then and there that this is a fight or flight moment? Because most of them aren’t. Now look, if somebody has a gun to your head or somebody’s about to kill your family or whatever and you need to react, that’s a different situation. If somebody does something stupid at work or you’re…

Nick McGowan (18:11.746)

knock something over or your wife forgets to do something or your husband forgets to do something or whatever that is. Those aren’t life-ending situations and your crazy reaction shouldn’t be like their life-ending situations but sometimes they can be. I believe most every bit of our trauma and the stuff that we deal with comes from our childhood.

Nick McGowan (18:40.138)

and the traumas that we dealt with as children. We’ll continue to keep those moving and seeing different situations for the craziness that it may or may not be due to the fact that we’ve gone through trauma as a child. You’ve gotta be able to stop that. I don’t care how old you are. If you’re a teenager or if you’re 90 some years old.

Nick McGowan (19:06.094)

We’ve all have been through tough situations where we’ve reacted in a way that we don’t want to react. So my suggestion to you is to take a quick second and figure out what do you wanna do from here and what’s really going on? Why do you feel triggered? And if that takes you a little bit and you need to step away from the situation, go do it. Again, if you’re a teenager or if you’re 90 years old, you can take that second.

Nick McGowan (19:34.41)

And if somebody questioned you for it, tell them, I need a second. I just need to be able to process through this. But what you do in those moments is crucial to being able to actually heal for yourself and to heal the situation. Because if you’re just reacting and throwing negative energy or negative verbal daggers at somebody or being physical in a negative way, it’s not going to turn out.

Nick McGowan (20:03.818)

Well, again, think about the different times where you’ve gone through it. Go ahead. I know they’re there. Think about it. Did it ever really work out the way that you wanted it to? Don’t lie to me. Don’t lie to yourself.

Nick McGowan (20:23.47)

having that negative reaction is never ever going to help or heal you. So again, how you handle that initial reaction while you’re climbing through life and you’re on your path of growth.

Nick McGowan (20:41.526)

What you do in that specific second where you could react a negative way is going to impact the way that you continue for that climb or that you start the descent downward on the side of the mountain, literally free falling or just going down on your ass and sliding down and having to figure out how to climb your way back up with a lot of extra baggage.

Nick McGowan (21:10.05)

And if this is something that you struggle with, understand that you’re not alone. This is something that a lot of people struggle with. Even the people that are super calm and peaceful, they have different reactions. And sometimes those reactions will shut them down. And sometimes those reactions will come screaming out of them. And if you’re somebody with a lot of energy or somebody that reacts really easily to things, likewise for you. But again, it’s what you do in that split second.

Nick McGowan (21:39.37)

and taking a beat and taking it just a quick second to be able to figure out where’s this actually coming from? What’s real and what’s going on? And what reaction do I need to give to this situation? Not an emotional thing of like, even if you’re like, I really want to hit this person. Okay, we’ll find out why. Why do you want to hit them? What’s going on? What happened in the past that has led you in this situation to want to hit somebody or to throw a…

Nick McGowan (22:09.218)

verbal dagger at them or whatever. So if you have these situations that happen often, then I’d encourage you to be able to journal them out and think about those situations. And so and so at work really pissed me off today. And the reason why they pissed me off was this. Maybe you state what exactly happened at that point, or maybe you just jump directly into what you believe had happened. And then figure out where that comes from.

Nick McGowan (22:37.986)

why you get upset with that. And I’d really encourage you to be able to speak with somebody. Speak with somebody that you love to find out how often do you do this? Is this something that maybe you’re unaware that you do more often than not? And be mindful of your reaction when they tell you, yes, you’re an asshole at times and you do this a lot. Don’t go crazy on them. You’re trying to grow here. So respect that somebody else feels like you do that at times.

Nick McGowan (23:07.382)

You might also get people that are like, no, usually you’re totally fine. But there are a few times where you go a little crazy and ask some questions with that. How did you feel when I did that? What, what was the situation from your perspective that was going on? Did you feel it was warranted for me to do that? Now I suggest that you talk to people that are probably a little bit more mature in life and.

Nick McGowan (23:35.41)

a little bit more self-control and self-awareness or you’re going to get some bad advice. And simultaneously while having these conversations with yourself and with people that are around you I’d also suggest that you get some coaching and talk to somebody that can actually help you process through the stuff that you’ve been through. Because I tell you this, if you process through the stuff that you’ve been through and actually work through it from a mental and

Nick McGowan (24:04.918)

then your reactions will change. You may still have those reactions. I do. I’ve done a lot of work over the course of my life and specifically over the past 15, 20 years and I’m still learning. There are still times where I have a reaction and I’m like, shit, that is not what I wanted to do. That is not how I wanted that to come out. And there are also times where I probably look like an idiot to people because something will happen and the reaction will start to come up. I’m like…

Nick McGowan (24:34.666)

I need a minute, let me process through this. And most everyone I’ve said that to has been like, all right, that’s fine. Because they either get it or they appreciate that I’m taking a second, taking a quick beat to be able to breathe through it and figure out what’s going on to then be able to have that conversation. But I don’t always do it that way. But I do always learn from it and I work through it. So if you need someone to speak with about that.

Nick McGowan (25:04.066)

definitely reach out, we can talk about it. If you need ways for yourself to be able to do it throughout the days when you’re maybe not able to talk to me or talk to anybody else, then take a beat. No matter what it is, if you’re out driving and you see somebody cut you off and you wanna get angry, use it as a good activity to be able to go, all right, why do I wanna get angry? Well, maybe it was because this person put us in jeopardy. We could have been really hurt. Okay, well, what, where does that come from?

Nick McGowan (25:34.154)

What makes you think about that? Maybe it was somebody that you loved, gotten into a bad car accident. Maybe it was you. Maybe it was something that triggered you from some different ways. But the biggest point is that you were triggered and understanding where that came from will help you understand what you do with it at that point and how you move through it and you’ll start to see patterns too. You may see that as you journal things out or as you even just mentally kind of go through them, you go, wow, I really get upset in these situations.

Nick McGowan (26:04.074)

and they react in these ways in those situations. And you can start to make incremental progress. Now, if you wanna take that incremental progress and you’re okay with that, great. If you wanna start to make quantum leaps, then that’s where I say you reach out to me. Let’s have a call, let’s talk through what it is that you’re doing, and figure out a plan of exactly how we can figure out the best approach for you to be able to do this in an instant, and to be able to work through those things. Again, I’m not perfect.

Nick McGowan (26:33.386)

And I’m not going to tell you that I am, and I am absolutely not a guru in this shit, but I am an addict when it comes to being able to understand what’s going on and how I work through this stuff. And being able to put processes in place to be able to make sure that I do at least less of it as I move forward. So I appreciate you being with me today. Please check out the other episodes to hear how other people handle this sort of situation. And

Nick McGowan (27:02.574)

how other people react to things with my guest episodes as well as my solo episodes. If you have any questions or wanna be able to understand how to best work through situations like this, please feel free to reach out to me, schedule a time for a free clarity call or send me a message about the Reset Button program. That’s a awesome program that’ll help you actually be able to hit Reset Button on your life and figure out what you need to do moving forward to live the life that you want.

Nick McGowan (27:32.046)

Again, thank you so much for being with me on the Mindset and Self-Mastery Show today. I appreciate you.

Today on the show, Nick shares about how he recently left social media and how it took years to get to this point. It took that long because of the story he was telling himself about who he was with or without social media and how he couldn’t imagine what life could look like without it.

What to listen for:

“I think the first time I was able to get onto any sort of chat room or anything like that I was maybe 12 or 13 and there were a handful of different websites like early dating sites and just connecting sites, communities, and stuff like forums for different bands I’d listen to, regional bands or big national acts”

“It felt like social media was fun and playful at that point. I also didn’t try to make any money off of it. I didn’t try to do anything that was business related or anything like that, especially in high school.”

“About a month and a half, two months ago at this point, deactivated all my social media accounts and it’s been beautiful. Well, correction, it’s been fucking beautiful. It’s been a lot less noisy. I’ve been able to work on my business, work on myself, work on my relationship, work on my internal world, read a lot more, work on my music, work on my hobbies, work on my tiny home, work on so many different things that I wanted to be able to do instead of just doom scrolling on Instagram or just getting sucked into something or feeling like I have to do all these things to produce all these different pieces of content or have my team produce different pieces of content.“

About Nick McGowan

I’m Nick McGowan, entrepreneur, podcaster, and mental health advocate, and I’ve been on a 20+ year journey of personal development, learning to master my mindset, emotions, and the art of living with purpose.

As a Mindset and Self-Mastery Mentor, I work with ambitious men and women who want to live their most authentic and joyous life, by helping them master their mindset, emotional awareness, and authentic communication. My mission is to empower people to lead lives that feel aligned, grounded, and truly their own.

Throughout my career, I’ve built teams, streamlined systems, and improved client experiences across SaaS, media, marketing, and personal development spaces. Whether I’m leading cross-functional projects, optimizing SEO, Podcasting, designing strategies, or guiding clients through transformation, I bring a hands-on, solution-focused approach to everything I do.

I’m also the host of The Mindset and Self-Mastery Show, where my guests and I unpack the stories that shape us, challenge us, and ultimately guide us back to who we are at our core. On this show, we uncover the secret gems others have discovered through trial, error, and breakthroughs so you can fast-track your growth, and master your mindset on your pursuit toward self-mastery. 

With years of podcasting and two decades of marketing experience, I’ve mastered the storytelling, interview flow, strategy, and technical production that elevate a podcast from “just content” to something truly impactful. Whether you’re a leader looking to amplify your message, or a seasoned speaker and podcast host looking to sharpen your edge or even a beginner who is wondering how to share their message, I mentor thought leaders through every step of having the conversation they’re here to have on this planet.

So, what message are you here to share?!

Resources:

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? Send Nick an email or schedule a time to discuss your podcast today!

[email protected]

Thank you for listening!

Please subscribe on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089

Watch Clips and highlights: www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA

Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

(00:01.742)
Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. And today on the show, I’m going to share about how I’ve recently left social media and my God has it been fantastic. It was one of those things that for the longest time, I thought this is just nonsense, this is bullshit. I don’t feel like any of the stuff that I’m posting, any of the stuff that I’m seeing is really worthwhile.

(00:31.254)
And even those times when I’m posting things that I feel like I’m really proud about this, or I wanted to share this, like specifically with the podcast, being able to point out that we have great guests on the show, we talked about these great life-changing topics, and feeling like this shit was just getting nowhere. And then realizing that there are different people that are shadow banned because you said something weird. And I know there’s some weird shit that we’ve talked about on this podcast. There’s some really deep, deep stuff.

(01:00.438)
that we’ve talked about, that a lot of people have a hard time working through, and that’s why we talk about it. So I want to take a little bit of a step back and let’s talk about the original social medias. So I’m 38, I was born in 84, so I think that I’m considered to be a geriatric millennial, which is fucking humorous. The fact that there’s geriatric in it.

(01:30.366)
I’ve heard that there are a few different ways to be able to put the, I guess it’s like 82 to 84, 85, something like that, millennials. But either way, geriatric millennial, that works for me. That’s good. We are the first ones from what I understand to really have the internet as a major part of us growing up in our formative years. I-

(01:57.806)
I think the first time I was able to get onto any sort of like chat room or anything like that I was maybe 12 or 13 and there were a handful of different websites like the things that come to mind for me I guess were like I guess like early dating sites and just connecting sites, communities and stuff like that like the forums of different bands I’d listen to, regional bands or big national acts or

(02:28.114)
Face the jury comes to mind. I don’t know. I haven’t thought about that in a long time but how they were different ways that we would be social with people online and as a Middle school and high school kid. I remember thinking how fucking awesome is this I get to talk to people all over the world About some awesome band. I love or some regional band or I get to meet people in different States or different countries and we talk about whatever we want to talk about

(02:57.898)
and how the world had kind of opened up at that point. But that was the early stages of social media. I also remember at one point, a friend had told me you should get onto Facebook. I think they’d said, my space is dead, Facebook is the next place to go, you need to be on there. And at that point, you needed to have an education, like a.edu email to get onto Facebook. I think it was probably the first 10,000, 20,000 members, whatever it was.

(03:28.234)
when I first learned about it and wasn’t able to get on. But I remember seeing it and I was like, ah, it’s kinda cool. And then as soon as the doors opened for us regular folk who didn’t go to college or whatever you wanna say, I was able to actually get into it. And I remember how cool that was, being able to be on social media and Facebook specifically, being able to meet different people and talk to different people just like I was a handful of years before that in different chat rooms and.

(03:57.87)
talking to people about things that I was interested in, different musical gear, different bands, or skating and things of that sort. And it felt like social media was fun and playful at that point. I also didn’t try to make any money off of it. I didn’t try to do anything that was business related or anything like that, especially in high school. I guess if the only thing you’d consider business related was relationships or like.

(04:26.958)
trying to meet different girls or different band members or just different cool people and I did. I also met some really strange people, some in person some just online and I’m glad that it stayed that way and the early stages of social media seemed again fun and exciting but it wasn’t until a handful years after high school that I really started to think about

(04:56.482)
there are ways to be able to build a business with this. And I remember when the movie, The Social Network came out, I was blown away and inspired by the movie. I know it wasn’t all 100% accurate and all of that, but it really wasn’t even the story and situation as much as it was the inspiration of, there was this idea and this dream.

(05:23.794)
and it was created and turned into something massive. Now, I personally think at this point, it’s become a bit too massive and has grown some crazy legs, which is part of the reason why I’m no longer on it. But I remember getting really excited and inspired, and that led me to start my own company with some friends where we had social media marketing services. We had social media marketing specifically for small businesses.

(05:52.142)
trying to do the right thing to be able to help people. And it was one of my entrepreneurial experiences that was both beautiful and disastrous. But social media was at the core of it. And a lot of people knew of me as the social media guy. But I remember thinking, I don’t really like social media. It makes sense for people to be on it that are in different sort of industries. Even us as a company, we needed to be on it. Or so I thought.

(06:22.622)
And I bought into, I think the unwritten rule that a lot of people don’t talk about, but they feel is there, is if you’re not on social media, you don’t have a business. And I’m here to tell you that’s absolute garbage. It is not true at all. There are tons of businesses that don’t have a social media presence at all. And they’re doing just fine. Now, I know what you’re saying.

(06:52.53)
I said the same shit. They’re also businesses that don’t have a social media presence and they aren’t doing fine. In fact, they’re doing terribly and there are some companies that don’t have websites and As a company who creates and develops brands and websites It hurts sometimes when I think about that, but it doesn’t hurt me as much When I know that these people are actively doing the best that they can to be able to help

(07:18.946)
their clients or their customers or whatever they’re doing. And that’s something that somebody like ourselves can help with or somebody who they know can help them with it. But that is besides the point. There are certain people that feel like people themselves or brands or companies or whatever, they feel like they need to be on social media. And if they’re not, they’re missing the boat. They’re not in front of people. They can’t tell people what they’re doing because nobody will know because they’re not on social media about it. And that’s where everybody’s at.

(07:48.462)
It’s not really true. But I believe that to be true a number of years ago. Remember in 2012, 13, when I had that company and we were starting to build it, I started to talk to people. It felt prime. I know now, and I think I knew it then, just didn’t wanna fuckin’ say it. But we were late. We were late to the party of really being able to, let’s say, cash in and be able to help a lot of people and make a good amount of money on this wave that we knew was inevitably going to crash.

(08:17.27)
But we kept writing it, trying to do the right thing to be able to help specifically small businesses. But I remember when we only had our social media service, there was a piece of me that was like, there’s got to be more than this. Now, we as a business expanded, we started to offer websites and SEO and PPC and other ads and copywriting and all of that. But social media was still at the core of what we did.

(08:47.526)
And we, I believed that was a major part of it. And therefore I needed to be part of it. But I remember thinking like, I don’t want to be a part of it at all. I get at all. It sounds noisy and there’s craziness and just a lot of bullshit that’s going on. And over the next handful of years, I realized that there was a lot of, again, shadow banning and different things that were happening that the algorithms weren’t actually working in our favor. And you couldn’t just put.

(09:16.71)
some ads up and drive some business to your website and start to sell things anymore, it was getting more and more difficult because there was more and more of a population, but really there was more and more noise that was happening. Not just the people that are on it. The barrage of all the different people that aren’t part of your circle, that the ads were coming your way. The

(09:44.842)
you may be interested in was coming our way. There was so much that was coming at us. And as it just got noisier and noisier and noisier, I remember thinking then, 2015, 16, whatever it was, this is getting a little out of hand and I really don’t want a part of it. There are times where I think about podcasting even, and I’m jumping ahead, but thinking about podcasting where there’s a lot, where there are a lot of people that have podcasts and a lot of people do them different ways.

(10:13.006)
But you can tell when the people actually care about what they’re doing. Or at least I would hope that you could. But I hope that you can tell that I give a fuck about what I’m talking about. Then there’s some people that just strictly do it just because they’re told they can make some money off of it. Or it can scratch a niche of significance for them. Or whatever. Name something else that’s part of ego or whatever you want. But you can tell the good ones. And you can tell the ones that actually care. Just like with businesses. You can tell the good ones. And you can tell the ones that actually care.

(10:43.07)
And if they’re not on social media, that’s totally fine. But that took me a long time to be able to realize that. And when I got honest with myself and realized that not only is social media noisy, but it’s actually a deterrent to me as a business owner. And something that takes so much time for me to do something with such a little return and such little.

(11:12.43)
promise that I needed and wanted to be able to step away. So I think about a month and a half, two months ago at this point, deactivated all my social media accounts and it’s been beautiful. Well, correction, it’s been fucking beautiful. It’s been a lot less noisy. I’ve been able to work on my business, work on myself, work on my relationship, work on my…

(11:41.234)
internal world, read a lot more, work on my music, work on my hobbies, work on my tiny home, work on so many different things that I wanted to be able to do instead of just doom scrolling on Instagram or just getting sucked into something or feeling like I have to do all these things to produce all these different pieces of content or have my team produce different pieces of content. I still gotta pay for it at that point to hope that a handful of people maybe see the stuff.

(12:11.286)
Now granted, I’ve had different times where people have messaged and they said they’ve gotten different beautiful things out of podcast episodes or something I’ve written and I’ve got friends and family and loved ones that have experiences like that as well. My partner, she has had tons of those over the course of time. But those people are going to be able to find you different ways as well. And we as a

(12:41.69)
within the agency that we have within Choose Your Calling, we understand that right now, people are more getting back to, let’s say the basics of being able to just search things that they specifically want. When people haven’t gotten away from Google, we all know that. But SEO is more of a thing now than it had been in the past 10 years, because I believe people are starting to get away from social media. Even if they’re not deactivating like I did,

(13:07.886)
they’re still stepping back from it a bit. And if they have a specific question, yeah, they might ask somebody on social media a friend or shoot a message to somebody. Or they’ll probably ask somebody local, an actual friend, somebody they talk to often. The human-to-human interaction and referrals will always be a thing. But people are actively looking for what they want and doing the research off social media. And why put all that content on there? Put all that effort?

(13:37.662)
if it’s not gonna get you anywhere, but also when you just don’t want to feed the fucking machine anymore. And I don’t want to feed the machine anymore. I didn’t want to. And I’m glad that I had my partner in with that as well. She actually was the one who brought up the idea, and I had kicked it around for the past, I don’t know, six months, a year, something like that, but remember thinking, that’s crazy. I couldn’t do it. Because of who I was before.

(14:07.202)
how I was the social media guy, and how people knew that I had social media services, and that I was on social media and all of that, and I bought into that, but no longer. And I didn’t want that anymore. And I remember taking a step back and thinking, yeah, this needs to be different. This needs to be changed. And that was a piece that I changed. So I guess in some ways this episode is more of a, oh, hey, by the fucking way, I’m no longer on social media, I’ve stepped out of the…

(14:36.534)
the noise and out of the machine, and I suggest you do the same thing. You’ll see with my podcast, with my partner’s podcast, with our client’s podcast, then with everything we do with Choose Your Calling, it’s not going to be on social media. At some point, we may have teams work on different pieces on social media, but those will be highly strategic, and those aren’t just going to be shotgun blasts out to the masses, hope that…

(15:06.506)
somebody understands and wants to do something with it. Because I feel like social media has gotten to the point where, think about any message that you want to share. It’s kind of like you walking into a 30,000 person filled room and just yelling at the top of your lungs that whatever your idea or business or whatever it is, but trying to get that through all those other people. And you and I both know.

(15:35.362)
that there’s a lot more people than 30,000 on social media, on any platform, at basically any moment. So feel free to let your mind run wild with that, but you just stand in there yelling about the thing, no one gives a fuck, because they can’t hear it, or they’re too busy watching something else. And without going down the path of how social media is potentially a tool to be able to kind of control the minds of people.

(16:04.63)
or at least see how they worked with different things. I’m not gonna go down that path in this episode, but I’m gonna talk about how important it was for me to actually be able to step outside of it, and how I think for you it may be the same. I would challenge you, take a break. Take a three day break, take a two day break. Fine, take a few hours even if you need to. Take a month, or see how long you can go just by getting away from it.

(16:34.302)
and how you feel not being a part of the machine and the noise anymore and what you do differently. Like I’ve rattled off in the beginning of this. I’ve done a lot of different things and some things were things that I was already doing but I just sunk more time into it. And if you’re feeding the machine and adding to it, you’re not able to actually live your life or go do the things that are important to you. I get that having.

(17:03.842)
downtime and being able to learn different things and you know checking off all those different boxes that social media can give you Can be important at times but there are also different ways to go about it Like if you want to learn different things there are specific sites that you can go to for great news If you want to learn about specific topics again, just Google it and kind of work your way through that Some of the things that we’re focusing on within our business is YouTube and Pinterest

(17:32.878)
because those are both additional search engines. They’re not just a social media platform. I don’t really consider them to be. Some people would with Pinterest specifically, but I don’t, I don’t really consider it like that. If you do and you have a reason why, message me and let me know. But either way, being able to understand when you get sucked into those things and how those things interact with you and your being,

(18:03.202)
positive thing for you or not. And there are some people I talk to that are like barely on social media, but when I am I find it enjoyable. You could probably switch out their phone with a book and they would feel the same way or even TV or a movie or whatever or going for a walk outside. But ask yourself what would you do differently if you weren’t on social media? What would your business look like if you weren’t on social media?

(18:33.982)
And if that freaks you the fuck out, ask yourself why. And ask yourself what could you do differently? What could actually happen if you didn’t have social media? In fact, yeah, let’s play that game. Let’s pretend it all went away. All the social media went away. What do you do? What do you do for the two hours? Hell, what do you do while you’re sitting on the toilet? What do you do with your business to talk about whatever new promotions are coming up or…

(19:02.126)
new hire or the new client you got or anything fun and exciting you want to talk about personally on what you would have posted on social media what do you do if they’re no longer there if that freaks you out keep asking the questions keep going deeper with it and finding out why that freaks you out for me i knew stepping away would be uncomfortable and felt strange because i’d built a lot of the network and

(19:30.294)
I’d done all these things and checked out all these fucking boxes. But being able to take that leap of faith and stepping away felt crucially important. And it’s something that I think about every so often. But I more so think about how impactful and intentional I am now because I’m no longer on that. And how it’s removed stress from myself and my team.

(20:00.346)
how I don’t have the just influx of all this information, good, bad, indifferent, whatever. And I get to choose what information I ingest in my being and what I get to do with it at that point. So, again, I suggest you do the same. I guess a challenge from this is to take a few hours, take a day, take a couple days, take a few weeks, whatever you’re going to do. But my challenge to you would be to step out of the noise, step out of the machine.

(20:28.31)
and to think about and feel into what you want to do instead of that and what would be more beneficial for you to do. Hell, even if it’s like, you know what, instead of on social media, I could take a nap. Beautiful. Siestas are necessary. If you feel like you want to do something with a hobby or with a relationship that you have or business or whatever, be able to shift your time and effort into those things that are actually real life things instead of just wasting your time on social media. I feel like I might get some messages from people that

(20:58.486)
boohoo the things that I’m saying with this and I’m sure we’re gonna get some of people that are excited and like yeah man rock on I’m doing the same thing. Either way if you have any questions or any thoughts or anything you want to talk about let me know. If you’re in a spot that you know that you have things that you’re going through and you’re unsure of how to get away from social media because of other traumas or experiences that you’ve had then you may need to go through my program the reset button program to be able to help you actually reset.

(21:27.638)
Recalibrate and figure out where you’re going next or you may just need to have a quick conversation to be able to talk about Why you have that? May not be an addiction But the urge to be on social media and other things that are like that if you have questions send me a message But I really appreciate you being with me today and thank you for listening to the episode

In this episode, Nick speaks with Dan MacQueen, who had to re-learn how to walk, talk, and smile after a traumatic brain injury in 2014. What he found out along the way might surprise you, there is nothing like a brain hemorrhage to refocus the mind!

What to listen for:

“I had a brain hemorrhage in 2014. What had been happening was I was having these headaches that were getting really bad over the course of a few weeks and I was taking painkillers like candy for them.“

“I woke up, my mom, dad, and brother around the bed. I’m trying to speak but I can’t talk because I had a tracheotomy removed and I couldn’t, it took me a few months to get my voice box back. So I pointed to my brother and I go, you, give me a pen and paper. I wrote down, get me out of here. And I showed him. Yeah man, make it happen.”

“Every day I wake up, I’m better than yesterday. I’m trying to be better than yesterday. I’m trying to be intentional in my vibe, the way I present myself, the way I show up for work, and everything like this. I’m intentionally going after what I want. And it’s not easy for people to hear, look, you gotta accept it, but that’s how you get through this stuff.”

About Dan MacQueen:

Dan had to re-learn how to walk, talk, and smile after a traumatic brain injury in 2014. What he found out along the way might surprise you, there is nothing like a brain hemorrhage to refocus the mind!

Resources:

Check out Episode #13 “Why not choose to be joyful” about dealing with a loss, managing your mindset after being thrust into a tough situation

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? Send Nick an email or schedule a time to discuss your podcast today!

[email protected]

Thank you for listening!

Please subscribe on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089

Watch Clips and highlights: www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA

Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Nick Mc Gowan (00:00.758)

Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self-Mastery show. Today on the show, I’ve got Dan McQueen. Dan, welcome to the show. How are you doing?

Daniel Mac Queen (00:10.542)

Very well, thanks Nick for having me.

Nick Mc Gowan (00:12.354)

Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate being on man. Hey, why don’t you tell us what do you do for a living and what’s one thing that most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre?

Daniel Mac Queen (00:21.934)

So I’m a professional speaker based in Vancouver, BC. One thing you’ll know about me is that, oh, I was going to say I’m a survivor of traumatic brain injury, but I think everyone knows that about me now. I used to live in London for the past 10 years, so I’m recently back from London after 10 years abroad.

Nick Mc Gowan (00:37.806)

Wow, what brought you to London?

Daniel Mac Queen (00:41.902)

I did a masters in Sweden, figured I’d continue the European adventure. London was an area where English was not going to be an issue, language was not going to be an issue, so I moved there. And you know, this happened in London, so it kind of prolonged my stay longer than it would have, but London’s a great city. I really enjoy it. It’s got a lot of vibrancy, a lot of culture, a lot of food. The food there is incredible. It’s a great city to live. It’s just a bit of an adjustment, but yeah, lots of love for London.

Nick Mc Gowan (00:45.635)

Nice.

Nick Mc Gowan (01:08.686)

So you were in Sweden for a bit. Was that just a couple years? Was that a few months or what?

Daniel Mac Queen (01:14.151)

One year I did a masters there in Sweden, Malmo, very south of Malmo.

Nick Mc Gowan (01:18.198)

Wow. And then to be able to pick London to go to, was that something, did you have any friends there or were you just like, I’m just gonna show the hell up and find a place, find a flat and I’ll be good.

Daniel Mac Queen (01:28.082)

Yeah, no, I had a friend who I stayed with for the first three, four months in London, Heidi Klassen, shout out. I lived on her floor for four months on a mattress. She was very accommodating. I was this degenerate, homeless, workless guy who was living on her floor. Mom would be like, is that guy still on your floor? She’s like, yeah, he’s right here. Turn the computer around, like, hi. Hi, Heidi’s mom. But I was able to make a go of London because of her generosity and that allowed me to get my job there.

Nick Mc Gowan (01:36.514)

Ha ha ha!

Nick Mc Gowan (01:47.61)

hahahaha

Daniel Mac Queen (01:57.47)

at HootSuite and then I managed to get a flat with a buddy. Four years later I managed to get an interview the next week and that’s kind of my adventure in London beginning that way. So it was a bit of a fly by the seat of your pants adventure.

Nick Mc Gowan (01:59.99)

Nice. Yeah.

Nick Mc Gowan (02:09.55)

That’s pretty cool. So how did you enjoy working at Hootsuite and what did you do there?

Daniel Mac Queen (02:15.874)

Yeah, I really enjoyed it. I started off in support, which is not my favorite because I’m not the most technically gifted guy. And the questions you get, you’re like, oh my goodness, I need to stall this until the real tech support comes online in Vancouver. But then I moved on to implementation, which was really my vibe. It was great because you were like, honeymoon period of the clients. Like they sign up for Hootsuite. They get, if they pay for services, they get something like myself. I set up the account for you. I train you on the account. Traditionally, it’d be like four sessions or, so kickoff call.

Nick Mc Gowan (02:27.994)

Yeah, I need help!

Daniel Mac Queen (02:45.954)

admin call, an end user call, and an analytics call. And you have that for maybe 12 to 15 clients, 12, maybe 15 to 17 clients at times, at various stages of the process, and you push them through the process to try and get high adoption. Adopt was like people using the platform on a monthly basis. It was a great job. Worked for EMEA, so you’re at Middle East and Africa, widespread clientele from the South of Italy to like, South Africa to…

Daniel Mac Queen (03:14.314)

Saudi Arabia, you got a way different variety of working styles and vibes. I learned a lot, made lots of mistakes, made lots of happy customers, but also made lots of mistakes as well. But it was a great job. HootTube was great to me when this happened. This injury happened in London when I was working for HootTube. They were phenomenal for me, and I got lots of gratitude for them.

Nick Mc Gowan (03:16.675)

Wow, yeah.

Nick Mc Gowan (03:30.304)

Okay.

Nick Mc Gowan (03:33.282)

So let’s jump kind of right into that then. Tell us about the day that it happened and why don’t you start off for the audience that doesn’t know what had happened. Like give us the baby in the bath water sort of thing.

Daniel Mac Queen (03:46.046)

Yeah for sure, so I had a brain hemorrhage in 2014. What had been happening was I was having these headaches that were getting really bad over the course of a few weeks and I was taking painkillers like candy for them. I went to A&E twice which is accident and emergency in the UK. They thought it was vertigo and they sent me home but on the second visit, on the way out they told me if the head surgery continued, I could get my eyes checked in an optometrist to like see what was going on.

Daniel Mac Queen (04:14.238)

I went to the optometrist the next day because the headaches were pounding and the medication was doing nothing. The optometrist Mr. Patel stopped the exam midway through the exam and left the room. He came back a few minutes later with a sealed envelope and he told me, you need to go directly to Morfield’s Hospital. So which I did. No, I didn’t do that at all. I went home first to grab a Jack Reacher book by Lee Child. I grabbed a bite to eat and I grabbed some phone charger.

Daniel Mac Queen (04:40.222)

managed to get my way to Morfields Hospital to run the same test that next week me to Charing Cross Hospital. It turns out, Nick, that I had a dangerous build-up of pressure in my brain caused from a non-cancerous cyst. It turns out I required emergency brain surgery tomorrow. Turns out my world was about to change altogether. So after a frantic back and forth with folks in Canada, my mom was coming to London the next day. I was on the operating table, she was flying to London. On the operating table I had a brain hemorrhage.

Daniel Mac Queen (05:10.102)

massive bleeding the brain. They think the cyst burst when they operated. She lands and finds them in critical condition. I was in a coma for four weeks, but was in and out of consciousness for months after this. Things were dicey, touch and go. When all was said and done, I was in there to walk, talk and smile again in London. That was 2014, so that was a few years back. That’s kind of what kicked everything off in there.

Nick Mc Gowan (05:39.758)

That must’ve been crazy for, let’s just talk about your mom for a second, for her to get on a plane, not have any idea what’s going on. She’s just up in the air and when she lands, her baby’s basically on his deathbed. And for you to not know exactly what’s going on, because you’re under at that point, um, you’d mentioned that it burst. Was that any malpractice? Was there anything that the doctors had done or was it just kind of the timing of it?

Daniel Mac Queen (06:06.434)

you know what like it’s i want to eat white statements diagnosed it is like what it was it was like what’s the real serious it was not and this malpractice is just they dismissed it no blame no blaming that they say my life on a number of cases of doctors were phenomenal

Daniel Mac Queen (06:28.982)

The doctors were phenomenal in London. I got nothing but love for the doctors in London. This was a card in my hand and it happened to come up and it went sideways on me and that’s as simple as that.

Nick Mc Gowan (06:39.586)

Hmm. So when you woke up and kind of take us through what the next couple of weeks, couple of months even looked like for you to be able to understand what happened, become aware of it, and then start to put the pieces together. Can you give us some detail of that?

Daniel Mac Queen (06:55.534)

Yeah for sure, so I woke up from the, I was in an unconscious for months after the coma, right? So like, I woke up, my mom, dad and brother around the table, around the bed. I’m trying to speak but I can’t talk because I had a tracheotomy removed and I couldn’t, it took me a few months to get my voice box back. So I pointed to my brother and I go, you, give me a pen and paper. I wrote down, get me out of here. And I showed him. Yeah man, make it happen.

Daniel Mac Queen (07:25.27)

I’m hooked up to like 13 tubes and hoses, my one eye is wonky as hell like dude you’re not going anywhere. My initial reaction was like this looks expensive. I was a Canadian, I was a European living in London so I was entitled to medical coverage which is all good, I was only up and up but like I was like this looks bad. I was told after you know, you know Dan you had a brain hemorrhage, you’re in a coma, you can’t use your left leg. I couldn’t speak for a few weeks right so like it was all frustrating because I’m trying to communicate but I can’t.

Nick Mc Gowan (07:33.762)

Yeah.

Daniel Mac Queen (07:55.494)

And I’m being told, look, the life that you knew of before is now gone. This is your current situation. You are bedridden. You know, my attention span was, you know, I got a few minutes here, a few minutes there. But it quickly became apparent to me how much the mental aspect was going to play into this. Like, it’s not what happens to you, but how you react to the matters. It’s not what happens to you, but how you react to the matters.

Daniel Mac Queen (08:24.19)

Now that took probably about a month for me to get my terms with it, to get my come to terms with what happened, right? The brain hemorrhage flattened me, like it flattened me. I was a healthy, vibrant guy, played a lot of sports, big nights out, I was quite social. To get that taken away in an instant, like and then your bedridden night, you know, to get into wheelchair took 45 minutes, then 40, then 35, then 30, like it was arduous, difficult, it was not easy at all. And I slowly rationalized like it.

Daniel Mac Queen (08:53.95)

after about a month of being sorry for myself, like look, feeling sorry for yourself is not an adequate way to get through this situation. You can feel sorry for yourself all you want, but that’s not gonna get you forwards. Acceptance, as tough as this is here, I’m gonna tell it to you straight, acceptance is the best thing you can do to move yourself forwards. The faster you can accept something, the faster you can move forward and deal with it. It’s not fair that it happened, you’re right, it’s not fair. You have to follow up with the next question, which is what and what?

Nick Mc Gowan (09:12.079)

Mm-hmm.

Daniel Mac Queen (09:22.89)

What do you expect to have happen because of that? Well, it’s not fair, it shouldn’t have happened to me. Okay. And what?

Daniel Mac Queen (09:31.894)

Eventually you tire out of the end what? Wishing something didn’t happen is not getting you forward. The way you get forward is you accept what happened, you take the time where you’re at and you make steps to progressively move forwards. This is not easy to do Nick. By any stretch, I’m not making this seem like it’s easy but it’s simple. Do you want a good life or a bad life? Make that choice. You want a good life? Okay, well then you gotta get up and try to get in the wheelchair faster. Want a bad life? Well then sit down and feel sorry for yourself because no one’s coming to save you.

Nick Mc Gowan (09:49.184)

Yeah.

Daniel Mac Queen (10:01.462)

You’ve got to get yourself through this narrow little needle hole here. It’s a difficult way to kind of approach life, but it is the way. And I speak now for organizations and associations and I try to tell them, look, that throughline answer to what happens to you, but how you react to the matter is the game, is the actual game. The mindset is so pure for this. Because if you think, well, it was me, well, it was me, you’re not wrong. It’s not fair that it happened to you. But that’s not going to get you forwards.

Daniel Mac Queen (10:31.87)

It keeps you spiraling and spinning your tires. Bit of a ride there for you, Nick.

Nick Mc Gowan (10:34.462)

Yeah. Yeah, it’s interesting. Cause when you think about how often people create stories of this shouldn’t be this way or things should be this way.

Nick Mc Gowan (10:46.502)

I realize that life is just going to be the way that it is. And when you, like you said, accept that you can actually do something with it. It’s a matter of you actually understanding and getting to the point where you go, okay, got it from here. I can move because if you don’t have that, you’re just stuck in that circle in that loop that’s just continuing like the, what was me or the, this is all terrible. It shouldn’t be this way. And that’s not, it’s not reality.

Daniel Mac Queen (11:11.626)

It’s not like you’re not wrong to think it’s not fair because it’s not fair but like No one’s coming to save you man. Like no one’s coming to walk down the hallway. Oh, oh Dan I see a line here. Let me let me help you walk through the hallway here. It’s like You’ve got to do that yourself and you got to make that choice in your mind Like am I gonna go forward or am I gonna stay here and swallow myself pity? like I refuse to go down the pity spiral the wool is in a pity spiral because That’s a dangerous spiral man. I don’t think I can recover in that tailspin Going down the drain. Oh, like it’s just like you’re finished

Nick Mc Gowan (11:18.35)

Yeah.

Nick Mc Gowan (11:29.603)

Yeah.

Nick Mc Gowan (11:37.611)

Hmm.

Daniel Mac Queen (11:41.75)

So every day I wake up, I’m better than yesterday. I’m trying to be better than yesterday. I’m trying to be intentional in my vibe, my way I present myself, the way I show up for work, and everything like this. I’m intentionally going after what I want. And it’s not easy for people to hear, look, you gotta accept it, but that’s how you get through this stuff. I don’t know what to tell you. I had to accept, so the initial hemorrhage took me about a month to get myself in this mental state where I could navigate this, right?

Daniel Mac Queen (12:12.202)

I had to set back after a year working through rehab. I’m jumping ahead of you a bit, Nick, apologies if you want to go to this a bit later. After a year working through rehab, doing a lot of walk, talk, and smile again, doing vocational therapy, physical therapy, occupational therapy, eventually I made it back to work. Two half days, end the neuroicure. I’m like, looking at emails, being social, being back at the office, I’m like, this is awesome, this is fucking great.

Nick Mc Gowan (12:20.814)

You’re good.

Daniel Mac Queen (12:42.194)

and then I had a bit of a setback. And by setback, Nick, I mean I was found unconscious in my flap on my mum. The shunt that’s in my brain from the first brain injury had blocked leading to hydrocephalus or water on the brain.

Daniel Mac Queen (12:58.406)

It’s required emergency brain surgery. I was rushed to the hospital in ambulance. I woke up in that hospital bed and hear the beeping noise, the heart rate monitor going off, like beep, what happened, what happened, what happened? Well, you had a second brain surgery. We got the blockage, but you’re back in the hospital. You had to have emergency brain surgery. So everything I’d been working for a year was taken away from me. Like the carpet was ripped underneath my legs. I talk about recovery, Nick, like at like a W. So the first setback is the first tip of the W.

Daniel Mac Queen (13:29.002)

Recovery’s maybe back up halfway. The second setback is not where the first one was, but much lower. I call this the depths of the human experience. Where your dreams and hopes are snickered at. Where you’re like, everything you thought you’ve been working for was taken away from you. You thought you had a chance there, bud.

Daniel Mac Queen (13:47.726)

I had already done rehab so I wasn’t able to go back to rehab in person. My mom fought tooth and nail to get me rehab, like remote rehab, which helped a lot. But this was so much lower than the first setback because the first setback was a joke compared to this. I had all that help. The second setback was like, okay, you’re out of the system, you’ve done this, you recovered. It’s like, well, yeah, but I had second brain surgery. And that took me about a week to get to come to terms with that, like to be settled up with that and like, okay, damn, this is not fair that this happened, but like guess what?

Nick Mc Gowan (13:56.442)

Hmm.

Daniel Mac Queen (14:17.942)

It’s not, no one cares if it’s fair, like this is your lot, this is your card, you gotta play this hand. And that took everything to get through that. Like that was the deepest and darkest time for my family. Cause everything you’ve been working for a year was ripped from underneath you and you thought you were making progress and making gains and back at work and everyone’s like, oh damn, good to see you back at work. And like, nobody, like you’re back at square one, like you’re, except it’s a year later on and you should be making progress and yet taken away from you. So that’s like.

Daniel Mac Queen (14:47.542)

That’s the real shit, man. Like that’s the stuff that’s like, you find out where your gumstream really is at. I lost my job this past summer, Nick. I worked at Hootsuite for, till last summer.

Daniel Mac Queen (14:59.362)

They had a round of downsizing last summer. I was on the wrong side of the spreadsheet. I got let go from a job that I worked at for nine and a half years, a job that I loved. I got nothing but love for Hootsuite. That job loss, you know, it was a bit of a shot, right? Nine and a half years at this company. I gave myself an afternoon. I had some margaritas. I decided then and there, Dan, you are a speaker starting tomorrow, which means you need a computer today.

Daniel Mac Queen (15:27.294)

I didn’t get over this in a week, in an afternoon, but I made the choice in an afternoon to get a new computer. The faster you can get to acceptance, the first step back, the second step back, the job loss, the faster you can take off in the other direction. That afternoon, I’m a speaker tomorrow. I bought a computer, and I’ve been chasing this down ever since. The faster you get to acceptance, the faster you can make steps to rectify stuff. What I’ve tried to tell people is like, look.

Daniel Mac Queen (15:56.382)

It’s not fair, but like, where would that get you? Wishing something didn’t happen is not an accurate resolve. It’s a bit of a tangent for you, Nick.

Nick Mc Gowan (15:59.426)

Yeah.

Nick Mc Gowan (16:04.87)

I appreciate it. I mean, there’s, there’s a lot that’s in that. And I, I think one of the big things that I always look for the takeaways for people and the something that has been coming into my mind throughout everything you’re saying is we as people don’t have to have brain surgery to get the point that you’re talking about you.

Nick Mc Gowan (16:26.002)

unfortunately and sort of fortunately, I guess, needed to, to be able to be where you’re at so you can be the influence that you are and the inspiration that you are and to be fucking real and honest with it. Uh, one of the things I’ve enjoyed about you, even watching some of the stuff before you joined the show and just doing some of our own research was how honest and real you were. It’s not like you’re out there rah rah. You’re like, this shit happened. This sucked, but you get through it and you figure it the fuck out.

Daniel Mac Queen (16:54.25)

Yeah, it’s like I pride myself on being authentic and real. And like I gave a talk at HootSuite last year and when he goes down that talk was awesome. It was real punk rock. And like, fuck yeah, man, that’s cool because I’ve really polished the talk a lot. To hear it’s like it’s still punk rock is pretty cool because like I’m trying to be raw and honest and just like wearing on my sleeve and be telling you like, hey man, this is like, like motivation, for instance, like motivation for me came from a very dark place. Someone telling me I couldn’t do something. The way the nurse got me talking again, when she took me down to the park.

Daniel Mac Queen (17:25.17)

And then she told me, hey, those kids across the park, Dan, they don’t think you’re good enough to talk, Dan. They don’t think you’re good enough to talk. Which is like a bold move on the nurse’s part, right? But she had talked to my family, and knew that would motivate me, right? And I yelled across the park, like, you mother fuck. I found my voice, but it took that jarring fuck you attitude to get going. And that’s real, man. Don’t think motivation’s gotta come from this holistic, helpful place.

Nick Mc Gowan (17:34.454)

Yeah.

Nick Mc Gowan (17:37.269)

Yeah.

Daniel Mac Queen (17:52.77)

Whatever works, ride that wave down. Don’t judge the motivation. If it works for you, great. Don’t try to reinvent how you get motivated. Harness the motivation or ride that wave. I’m now trying to transition motivation to service, helping people. Because when motivation comes from proving you wrong, when I prove you wrong, it’s gone like it never existed. When I’m serviced and helping you, your success is my success and I can sustain that motivation long term. Very actively transitioning my motivation. Now that’s a very intentional move on my part, but like…

Daniel Mac Queen (18:22.85)

That’s the real talk, man, because I don’t care how you think it should be, man. This is how it was for me and is now. And if you find yourself down a dark hole, like thinking about how it should be is not going to do much for you when you think about how it is. How it is, is not always pretty. It’s not always clean and neat. It’s raw, dirty and provocative. And like, that’s what works. Like don’t, don’t fuck with what works, man. Like ride that wave out and like…

Daniel Mac Queen (18:53.246)

I’ve got my honesty, I’ve got my story, I’ve got my authenticity, like that’s all I’ve got. And I can just tell you what I experienced, what I felt. And that’s what I’m trying to do is just show you a way through because…

Daniel Mac Queen (19:07.134)

Also, I did these brain scans. I’m going to get off the map here, but I’ll just go over here, Nick. These brain scans last two months ago at this brain injury clinic in Vancouver, like top of the range. One of the best, they had some footballer flying from London like two months ago after an injury to see if they had a concussion. Wasn’t able to find the name, I inquired. But they ran these tests, they found that my brain was shockingly average, okay? They didn’t say shockingly average, just hit average.

Daniel Mac Queen (19:36.698)

I’d say it’s shocking the average, because I think I’m gonna have some outlay in things. I’ve recovered so well. There’s gotta be some real spikes of awesomeness in my brain. No, shocking the average, which is a brain injury survivor, two-time brain injury survivor, that’s great. That means my brain’s healed, recovered, meditation’s building up those neural pathways, it’s great. But it also means that I’ve been able to see, because I’ve been able to lean into my mindset, I’ve been able to be nose over toes in my board, riding this wave down, and leaning into that full stop. That kind of shows me that like,

Daniel Mac Queen (20:06.39)

Look, I’m no better or smarter than anyone here, but I’ve chosen to go forward and I’ve chosen to lean into my mindset. Everything I do is leaning on the tippy toes of this board to ride this wave down, and that’s working. Which means you can do it too, which means I’m no better than anyone else here. Like, that’s empowering, that’s like, that’s cool to hear because it means that I’m not gifted or special, but I’ve chosen to go forwards. And you can too, man, why can’t you? Like, I had to be there to walk, talk, and smile again. We’re going from two traumatic brain injuries.

Daniel Mac Queen (20:36.606)

Everything I did was like, because I’ve leaned into this mindset full stop. I had a ton of help, man, a ton of help. Maybe you don’t have that help. That’s why I’m giving you this stuff for free on the podcast. Like I’m just giving it to you because why leave these lessons learned on the sidelines of life? They didn’t help you get back to being better than yesterday. I want to help. I want to make sure that you don’t have to go through what I went through. Because it was difficult, man. And like difficult is not even a proper word. Like it was, like I was holding onto the wall.

Daniel Mac Queen (21:06.282)

And there was times I wasn’t sure if you would hold on any longer. Like honestly I wasn’t sure if I could hold on any longer. And I just kept going and breathing and like well hopefully something clears up and then eventually a pillow would fall down and I could fall down and relax and be okay. There was times I’m holding on to this wall and I’m not sure I’m making it through this like 100%. Like I say it’s my second crack at things, it’s like more like fourth or fifth. Like this is real talk man and like it’s not going to be dramatic but like to tell you what matters when you flatten on the ground like

Daniel Mac Queen (21:34.03)

counting your next one and like what matters to keep taking care of it to talk of your life what actually does matter what actually means the most to you like that’s what matters to you and that’s what I want to talk to you about and help you shift your perspective right

Nick Mc Gowan (21:46.158)

Yeah. Managing your mindset through anything that feels, uh, distressing or traumatic or disturbing of any sort of way can be difficult, no matter what it is. If it’s a brain injury, if it’s, if you f*****g stub your toe as you’re walking out of the room at two o’clock in the morning to go to the bathroom and you’re like, ah, damn it, I f*****g hurt my toe. Like it could be anything, but it’s what we do with that. At that point, I try to make a joke with that because

Nick Mc Gowan (22:13.854)

I feel like people may listen and go, well, this was a major brain injury. Then you had brain surgery and maybe the thing I’m dealing with just isn’t of the same caliber. But if it resonates in their cells and in their minds in that way, then that’s really going to affect how they actually handle things. So why don’t you talk to us about how you actually manage your mindset and what you do on the daily to be able to keep that ball moving.

Daniel Mac Queen (22:42.478)

So my mindset is very much ingrained in like better than yesterday. Everything I try to do is better than yesterday. Why is it better than yesterday? Nick, I’m so glad you asked that question. I know that if I don’t wake up with intentionality, start my day in a certain routine, I’m not as good as I could be. And when I’m running it like the brain drain, I’m like, I’m now at 75% of it. So like battery wise, probably cognition wise, I’m probably running at 75% of what I was before. Which is not like a knock on.

Nick Mc Gowan (22:59.733)

Mm-hmm.

Daniel Mac Queen (23:11.878)

on me just like being real with you like my battery is 75% I run out of battery quite quickly I gotta be intentional with how I use my juice if I wasted on periphery shit why waste on periphery stuff let’s focus on what matters here man focus on what matters to you so wake up with intentionality every day I wake up I’ll go for a workout a walk a gym a swim I’ll go for a shower end the shower cold abrasive craziness I know

Daniel Mac Queen (23:40.782)

and then I’ll meditate for 25 minutes. I started with two minutes in the morning and ramped up to 25. Don’t start with 25, you’ll fail. Two minutes one week, four minutes a week afterwards, six minutes a week after that. Gradually ramp yourself up to this. Build up that resilient mindset. Foster resiliency. Then I go for breakfast, then I’m on my routine, my daily basis. Every day I wake up the same boot up sequence. I start up the same way because I know that if I don’t.

Daniel Mac Queen (24:07.73)

I’ll misstep and I know that if I do, I’m much better than if I don’t. So find a routine and follow that because, look, I tell my story, not to be like, look at how great my story is here, but I tell it because like, well, look at how tough it was for me and look at how low I was and look at where I’m at now. So if your story is anywhere in the spectrum of like this story, then why can’t you do this as well? Like there was a few times where you’re like…

Daniel Mac Queen (24:37.614)

Am I gonna get through this? I don’t know. I didn’t know. I didn’t know if I’d make it through this. I don’t know if I can walk in. The doctors told my parents I wouldn’t be able to speak. They told my parents that he’s not a speaker anymore. His vocal cords are fried from the tracheotomy. He’s the bugger. I’m speaking. Wasn’t able to walk for a few months. Like I’m walking now. Bit of a weird gay, bit of a march sometimes, but like I’m walking man. I got double vision still from the brain injury. Like I can see to you, Nick. What a blessing that is, man.

Daniel Mac Queen (25:05.458)

It’s difficult, it’s arduous, but it is what it is, man. Go forwards, I’m going forwards every day. And speaking now, jumpstarting a speeding career from a dead stop after a job loss, it’s not easy, man, but it’s simple. I’m going right here, just right happens to be straight up hill. But I’m going into this full steam because this is what my purpose in life is to do this, because I wanna share this lesson learned. I wanna help you share perspective and understand what matters in life

Daniel Mac Queen (25:35.426)

The stuff I really chased when I was younger, stuff that you think matters is not that important. And relationships are important. You cannot grow new old friends. Nurture those. Like family and loved ones are so key. That’s why I moved back from London because London is great, but when I couldn’t travel from COVID lockdown, London’s pretty far away, man. It’s a tough time. Connecting over FaceTime and stuff like this is difficult to connect with friends. And I was in London for 10 years, right? I loved London, but when you can’t travel twice a year?

Daniel Mac Queen (26:05.238)

Lens pretty far, lens pretty far away. So that’s a rant and a half, but hopefully some insight and perspective there and mindset.

Nick Mc Gowan (26:12.89)

Yeah, absolutely. That’s a great point about having your.

Nick Mc Gowan (26:17.25)

daily morning sort of rituals or routines and understanding for each person. I always love to be able to find out what people do in the morning. Cause there are some people I talk to, they’re like, I wake up, go to the bathroom and then start my day. And they’re totally good. But then maybe they have an end of the day routine or some pattern that they go through throughout the course of their day. I am the same way we’re in the mornings. I need to actually go through, spend a little bit of time meditating. I don’t meditate as much as I want to, but there’s, like you had said, kind

Nick Mc Gowan (26:47.164)

ramping that up, there have been different times where it’s been 15, 20, 30 minutes and other times where it’s five or two minutes or whatever. Knowing what’s important for you to be able to actually manage your mind and feed your mind the right way. Like I’ve multiple books I’m always reading and I always make sure that I have time in the morning to be able to do that. But it’s part of what I do at this point. It’s ingrained with what I do. And I always encourage people to be able to do that and find the things that help you actually get your shit together early in the day.

Nick Mc Gowan (27:17.164)

can start to move through the rest of the day.

Daniel Mac Queen (27:20.534)

Nick, I forgot to mention one thing. When I wake up, I make my bed. That’s the first thing I do. That’s the first task of the day is making my bed.

Nick Mc Gowan (27:26.402)

Yep. They’re, it’s funny, I, I think about it was some YouTube video that somebody had sent me years ago.

Nick Mc Gowan (27:37.07)

with some Colonel or something that was talking about make your bed, the first thing you do in the morning, you make your bed, you get some sort of win. And I make my bed all the time. There times are my girlfriend will kind of bust my chops about it. She’s like, we’re just gonna get the fuck back in it. I’m like, I know. But if I take this moment and just fix up the bed, it’s the first thing I get knocked out.

Daniel Mac Queen (27:39.446)

Yeah.

Daniel Mac Queen (27:56.738)

It’s such a keystone habit and I can’t tell you how much value this gets. I’ve heard so many comments after my talks, it’s like, damn, I make my bed now because of your talk. I’m like, cool. To think I’m responsible for making your bed is ridiculous, because growing up, I never made my bed. Never made my bed at all. I would always have a messy bed. Whatever, this is important. But it’s a symbol for your life. If the bed’s in order, your room’s tidy, at least it looks tidy. It can be messy, but the room is tidy if the bed’s made. It’s a keystone habit for you.

Nick Mc Gowan (28:11.316)

Yeah.

Nick Mc Gowan (28:17.806)

Yeah.

Daniel Mac Queen (28:26.05)

and one of the best habits I picked up in the brain drew.

Nick Mc Gowan (28:31.014)

Hmm. What an interesting thing to think even in that simple way of like growing up, you never made your bed, but now that’s something that you’re helping others get that win, that first win of the day to be able to do it. So on that note, Dan, what’s that one piece of advice that you’d give somebody that’s on their path towards self mastery?

Daniel Mac Queen (28:49.838)

Mood follows action. Get into your body. Rich Roll, I stole that from Rich Roll. Get into your body, whether it be a walk, a swim, a gym. Get a sweat on and earn it, man. You have one body. Maintain it. It’s so much easier to maintain it than it is to start from a dead stop once you let it go for a few years. Every day I work out, every day I walk, every day I treat the body like a temple, eat good foods. But the first thing is, mood follows action. So get a sweat on every day if you can.

Daniel Mac Queen (29:20.014)

That’s why I recommend you listen to their Nick.

Nick Mc Gowan (29:22.33)

great advice, I appreciate that. So before we wrap this up, hey, why don’t you tell the audience where they can find you and where they can connect with you and if there’s anything else you wanna add.

Daniel Mac Queen (29:32.59)

Thanks, next time a speaker if I’m you queen Dan calm Mac Q you Een Dan calm speaking internationally Online in person Around the way and McQueen down across all the socials, but McQueen down calm and you can find all the information

Nick Mc Gowan (29:53.626)

It’s awesome. Well man, it’s been absolutely awesome to have you. I appreciate you jumping on, talking about everything, and being as real as you are. Thank you so much for your time, Dan.

Daniel Mac Queen (30:03.158)

Hey Nick, I appreciate you, thank you.

In this episode, Nick talks about feeling trauma in ourselves and what to do with it. When we think about trauma, most people think about the kind of crazy traumas like head traumas or something major like a car accident or even a tragedy where somebody died. There’s also the trauma that a lot of us don’t often talk about, but we all actually have… which are the traumas we experienced at a young age.

What to listen for:

“When you think about trauma or when I think about trauma, and I think most people when they think about trauma, they think about kind of crazy shit like head traumas or something.”

“With traumas, for the most part, I think a lot of our stuff that we work through and really the tough shit that we as adults work through are our traumas from when we were children. But that’s not where they all stop. It’s not like you from four to nine, you went through some fucking wacky shit, but after that, everything was peachy because there’s still stuff that’s going to happen no matter what. But it’s also how you react to those things that had happened before.”

“I think we all kind of know when we feel anxious at times, even though it’s not always easy to know it right in the moment, being aware of it, but it is knowing that, hey, I feel really anxious right now, even if it’s just been simmering for a little bit. So being aware of those things and being able to work through them are two different parts”

About Nick McGowan

I’m Nick McGowan, entrepreneur, podcaster, and mental health advocate, and I’ve been on a 20+ year journey of personal development, learning to master my mindset, emotions, and the art of living with purpose.

As a Mindset and Self-Mastery Mentor, I work with ambitious men and women who want to live their most authentic and joyous life, by helping them master their mindset, emotional awareness, and authentic communication. My mission is to empower people to lead lives that feel aligned, grounded, and truly their own.

Throughout my career, I’ve built teams, streamlined systems, and improved client experiences across SaaS, media, marketing, and personal development spaces. Whether I’m leading cross-functional projects, optimizing SEO, Podcasting, designing strategies, or guiding clients through transformation, I bring a hands-on, solution-focused approach to everything I do.

I’m also the host of The Mindset and Self-Mastery Show, where my guests and I unpack the stories that shape us, challenge us, and ultimately guide us back to who we are at our core. On this show, we uncover the secret gems others have discovered through trial, error, and breakthroughs so you can fast-track your growth, and master your mindset on your pursuit toward self-mastery. 

With years of podcasting and two decades of marketing experience, I’ve mastered the storytelling, interview flow, strategy, and technical production that elevate a podcast from “just content” to something truly impactful. Whether you’re a leader looking to amplify your message, or a seasoned speaker and podcast host looking to sharpen your edge or even a beginner who is wondering how to share their message, I mentor thought leaders through every step of having the conversation they’re here to have on this planet.

So, what message are you here to share?!

Resources:

Check out other episodes about trauma

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? Send Nick an email or schedule a time to discuss your podcast today!

[email protected]

Thank you for listening!

Please subscribe on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089

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Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

(00:13.01)
Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self-Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan, and today on the show we’re gonna talk about feeling trauma in ourselves and what to do with it. When you think about trauma or when I think about trauma, and I think most people when they think about trauma, they think about kind of crazy shit like head traumas or something.

(00:39.846)
with a car accident where somebody got into a real bad accident and there was a major trauma or like a tragedy where somebody died in the family maybe a very tragic way or somebody had some sort of crazy injury that you are friends with or family members you work with or whatever and there’s some sort of trauma with it there’s also the trauma that a lot of us don’t often talk about but we all actually have it’s the traumas from when we were younger

(01:09.166)
traumas of things that maybe have happened recently in your career or in your relationships. A trauma isn’t something crazy and blood-bathy or anything like that. It doesn’t have to be. Really what trauma is, it’s a deeply distressing or disturbing experience. Deeply distressing for some people could be just about anything and that’s not a judgment. That’s just some people are really hypersensitive to things. They’re hyper emotional.

(01:38.582)
Or there’s something that has triggered them from the past trauma of something that had happened before and they just Aren’t able to get through that Now if you think of a trauma of something that’s distressing Think about the past 48 hours There’s probably something that was even just slightly distressing. Hopefully there wasn’t anything disturbing Because a disturbing experience is something that can really shake you

(02:07.65)
can also really change you in very good ways, but you need to work through that. And if you’ve had one of those disturbing experiences within the past 48 hours, I really hope that you’re talking with somebody about it. You’re not just holding that back and you’re not just keeping it under wraps. I think there’s a lot to be said about processing through internally, but there’s also a lot to be said about just having conversations with people. So not to stand on a pedestal and talk about that.

(02:37.358)
preach to have conversations with people. But really, when we think of traumas, for the most part, I think people think about the craziness. So the traumas that you’ve had over the past, let’s say 10, 15, 20, 30 years, whatever it’s been, jump all the way back to childhood. And I’ve had traumas that range all the way back through childhood. There are traumatic experiences that have happened to me over the past even a few years.

(03:04.402)
some that have happened in the past six months or 12 months and different things that have really changed me or at least could be categorized as a trauma. And when you think about traumas being in our cells, it’s just like an experience being in our cells. I think something that really might kind of drive this home is like when you smell something. Let’s say you smell apple pie walking into a bakery or a restaurant or whatever.

(03:33.686)
might bring you right back to like your grandma’s kitchen or growing up your neighbor’s always baked or something like that. Some experience that’s like that. I hope that you don’t have an experience with apple pie where something really traumatic and disturbing happened and that has just ruined the smell of apple pie for you. That would kind of suck. But there are things that are like that. Having smells or different sight, different visions that you’ve seen, like I’ve…

(04:03.37)
I think about going back to the Philadelphia area and every so often just driving around. There’s not only nostalgia with that, but there are things that come back to me mentally, physically, sometimes even spiritually, driving through different areas or being in different spots of the town or different restaurants or what have you. Some that bring great memories and some that remind me of traumatic experiences. So.

(04:32.918)
With traumas, for the most part, I think a lot of our stuff that we work through and really the tough shit that we as adults work through are our traumas from when we were children. But that’s not where they all stop. It’s not like you from four to nine, you went through some fucking wacky shit, but after that everything was peachy because there’s still stuff that’s going to happen no matter what. But it’s also how you react to those things that had happened before.

(05:00.406)
when you were four to nine, what happened that was traumatic that you have actually worked through and processed through and healed through or that you really haven’t and maybe you don’t want to. And I get it. There’s some really dark shit that happens to a lot of people, a lot of deep traumas that some may even categorize wasn’t a trauma because they don’t know what else to categorize it as.

(05:28.29)
But if it was something that was very distressing or disturbing, I think when people really step aside and think about that, there are a lot of traumatic experiences that have shaped the way that we look at things. And sometimes those experiences will come out again through smell or a vision or just a memory, but there are times where it also happens within ourselves. So I think back to when I was a, well, I guess a little boy,

(05:57.07)
and my dad had asked me to go get a specific tool, pick a wrench name or whatever the fuck it was. And I didn’t exactly know what it was. I had asked, well, what is this thing? Or, you know, what does it look like or whatever? And I guess being a creative and a little bit quirky at times as a kid, I could look at one thing and feel how it could relate to something else.

(06:26.598)
even like a wrench, like whatever wrench you want to name, it was, they could all kind of work together. And I remember thinking like, yeah, this one could kind of look like this one, maybe he meant this thing or whatever. And I got a little frazzled as a kid because there was other trauma, other experiences that have happened that led me to that. That wasn’t the first, but the one that I remember is, that comes to mind now, is going to get that wrench.

(06:53.398)
and coming back with a different wrench and being like, I think I got it. My dad was like, what is this? And sort of called me an idiot, like, no, that’s the wrong one. You gotta listen, you gotta pay attention. Use your brain. The amount of times I heard think, use your brain, use your brain, use your brain. If I had a penny for every time I heard that, I’d be a gazillionaire at this point. And I remember thinking that as a kid that I messed this up. And that was a traumatic experience.

(07:23.474)
It may not be on the level of molestation or witnessing a murder or anything like that. However, that is still a traumatic experience. And the reason why I chose that one, I could talk about some of the other crazy shit, but this is something that I think we all go through probably as a child. Starting off with somebody said, no, this is stupid or that’s stupid or you’re stupid or whatever.

(07:51.434)
and that can shift you away from the thing that had happened. Now that experience, I remember being really upset and not feeling like I could talk to my dad about it, not feeling like I really had any right to talk to him at all. I felt shame because of it. And that was a thing that worked its way through for the next handful of years. And there were different moments where I’d be really hesitant to bring something to somebody else.

(08:18.694)
or some other family member or friend or what have you. And there’d be times where I would get called out for things, playfully even, that I would get really defensive because of the traumatic experience I had before. And I could feel it well up in me. One that really comes to mind that I joke about often with my partner and with my friends and especially the friend that this happened with. I remember, I don’t know, maybe…

(08:48.578)
10th or 11th grade, there was a cover that was done by the Deftones and it was spelled C-H-A-U-F-F-E-R. I thought, benetically, that sounds like Choffer. So I went with Choffer and I remember saying to my friend, like, man, have you heard this new Choffer? This is the best song I’ve heard from this band in the past two years, blah, blah. And he’s looking at me like, fucking what?

(09:18.998)
Chauffeur? You mean the chauffeur?

(09:24.334)
I remember realizing and letting it sink in and being like, oh yeah, fuck, that’s probably a little bit more accurate, but no, it’s the choffer and like I stuck with it. And I can remember that thinking back now about how I felt it in my body and how I felt shame that I didn’t know that word. And I brought it to my friend, a loved one, let’s say, of-

(09:49.354)
This is this thing and I’m so excited about this and I want you to check this out and I was all proud about bringing it to him and being called out I got really defensive I probably cursed him out slightly, you know in a probably D-bag move because I felt such shame and he gracefully just kind of laughed it off and was like dude No, that’s wrong Here, this is the actual word

(10:17.214)
And again, I still laugh about it and share the story and I get a kick out of it every time. But it makes me think about how I felt that in my being. Like I could feel it moving through my arms and just the cells within my body. Now, if I go back to that childhood experience with the wrenches and being like, well, I didn’t get you the right wrench and I got scolded and shamed, all of that. I was maybe very emotional with it, but.

(10:46.626)
there was a lot of different pieces that tied into that trauma. Then years later, having the chauffeur experience and things that reminded me of a previous trauma. And I hadn’t done any of the work to actually work through it. I don’t even think any of that occurred to me specifically in high school of doing any of that work, going back through any of it at all. Fast forward a few years. I’m in high school or out of high school.

(11:16.838)
in business and starting to actually step into entrepreneurialism. And being an entrepreneur, I knew that I had that within side of me since I was a little kid and my dad was, other family members were or are. And I’ve always thought about different ways to be able to help people monetize different things, use different things, different ways.

(11:46.526)
always thought, I think outside of the box, and I’d love to be able to run my own company, help people make my own money and do all of that. And I started to do that as a young 20 something and had some really traumatic experiences with that. And some things with business partners that I thought were great friends that really there were some abuse involved.

(12:14.046)
No physical abuse really, but there was mental and verbal and traumatic experiences that reminded me of all the way back to childhood, thinking and feeling through all of that within my being. I’d done some of that work, some of the internal work in my early 20s, but I remember a few years after that, and I’d mentioned this in a previous episode, I took a little bit of an off season.

(12:44.194)
part of that offseason.

(12:47.786)
I didn’t really work on myself, but I remember actually taking steps aside and realizing and becoming aware of certain things. So from that experience in my own business and with partners, there was another experience that happened years later. That was a length of time in a recent company that I had, recent as within the past decade. In that company.

(13:16.422)
I had two other partners and one of those partners was verbally and mentally abusive as well. I think there’s a little bit of a pattern there. I had a lot of trauma within my being by being in that company. I remember thinking through, how do I get through this shit? How do I do this the right way? How do I bring the information to this team member? How do I actually…

(13:45.25)
get something moving along without having an argument, without getting into some crazy shame fest and without feeling trauma. And at that point I wasn’t considering it trauma because I was in it. I was in the mix and I was working on things. I didn’t actually understand that I had been moving through traumatic experience one by one by one and I kept compounding it onto myself.

(14:13.014)
you can probably relate with that at some point in time. You’ve probably had experience after experience after experience that were actually traumas that were stacking upon them. And hopefully you’ve worked your way through them, talked through them. If not, reach out to me and we can talk about things. But if there are things that you have stacked up over the course of time, then it takes a bit more to be able to, let’s say, unstack them and work through them because they’re kind of all sandwiched together. I’ve been going through

(14:42.97)
months of that, which almost led me to suicide. And I’m glad that I took that step back, figuratively, physically, all of it. And having that experience, once I got out of that experience, I was aware of that. I talked more about that in my reset button program and that period of time where I needed to actually hit the reset button in life and

(15:08.574)
not only worked through my traumas, my past experiences, but I tripled my income and really started down the path that I’m on right now. So if you have questions about that, message me when we talk about the reset button. If that’s what you feel where you are at in life right now, that’s something I would highly suggest being able to actually work through. And the first two pieces of it is what I was going through when I realized that I had those traumatic experiences stacked upon themselves over the course of 25, 30 years.

(15:38.762)
And it was being aware of it, and then taking inventory of what’s actually real, and what do I wanna keep on with me for the rest of the journey. But that awareness was the most crucial part of it. Think about it, if you’re not aware of something, how the fuck are you supposed to do anything? If you’re standing in the middle of the road and a car is coming at you, but you have a blindfold on, and headphones, and can’t hear anything or see anything.

(16:07.882)
How are you supposed to be aware of that? But if you take those things off and to go along with the rest of this you can see and hear it then you can become aware of it and obviously at that point you’re gonna get out of the way or attempt to move or do something take some sort of action but you can’t do that unless you’re aware of it. So becoming aware of your traumas and the things that you’ve been through and how even they can all stack up

(16:37.374)
themselves, you can then start to work through it and figure out where does this shit go back to? What happened? And what led that to this? What led to these things without interpreting what happened, but really understanding the facts of the matter of what it was and how you felt it to be. So when I think back to all the way back to childhood, I remember feeling shame and a lot of discomfort and feeling like

(17:06.478)
disappointment and feeling unsafe, unloved, all of that. And then years later, working in different scenarios, feeling those same traumas and feeling them inside my cells, feeling it in my being. There’d be times where I could feel things coming up and it wasn’t just a thought or some sort of inner intuition feeling as much as it was in my…

(17:35.97)
body. I guess another way to be able to put this is if you think of somebody that you’ve seen maybe an ex or somebody who physically abused you or you’re arch nemesis or whatever, you can feel it in your body. That’s similar. There’s a trauma there and the traumatic experiences that live in your cells, live in your heart, live in your mind as well and it’s about working through all of those but again being aware of what’s actually happening

(18:04.798)
and what the feeling is coming from. I think we all kind of know when we feel anxious at times, even though it’s not always easy to know it right in the moment, being aware of it, but it is knowing that, hey, I feel really anxious right now, even if it’s just been simmering for a little bit. So being aware of those things and being able to work through them are two different parts, but they tie in together. So I’ve shared about a handful of different experiences that have happened and how

(18:34.882)
They’ve pretty much stacked upon themselves over the course of time, but how I’ve also been able to look back through them and see how they’ve stacked upon themselves and started to be able to unravel it a bit and understand how the pieces connect. Because then I can actually do something with those pieces. And from those, I can do different things in new situations, which brings me to a new situation I had. So.

(19:05.238)
I’m in a business with my partner and there’s a lot of merging that has been happening within our businesses but also a lot of changes for me personally and looking at things differently than I had in the past. Understanding how my winning strategy ties into everything that I’ve done and realizing everything that I’ve done in the past working in corporate America and running my own companies, how they have shaped.

(19:34.85)
who I am today, but how I do things today doesn’t have to be shaped by what I’d done before. So I’m really hyper aware of all that. And I’ve been working on that for the past few months. Specifically over the past, I’d say 45, maybe 60 days or so. I’ve really, I’ve committed to myself that I know that I’m very emotional. If you’re familiar with the Enneagram.

(20:03.554)
I’m a four with a wing three, and I know that I’m hyper emotional at times. And that there are times where I have really pushed away my emotions and stepped as far back from them as I could, almost repelling from them, because I didn’t want to actually go through what I thought was against my winning strategy. Before I thought my winning strategy, if I had thought about that, I would have thought that was a great thing, because that helped me win.

(20:31.734)
but I understand that it’s actually held me back. I will get into more about winning strategy over the course of the episodes, but this recent experience that happened with me feeling how I’m feeling, I’ve told myself that I’m going to allow all my emotions to come up when they happen, but I’m going to control them. Not going to let them control me. I’m gonna do everything in my power to not let them spew out or even really show their face.

(21:00.758)
in a sense, on my being, but how traumas live in ourselves, sometimes that’s really hard to do. So this experience that happened recently was something where I had a business situation that tied in myself, my business partner, my team members, and there was a lot of time crunching and just…

(21:29.446)
scheduling that needed to be done and movement of things and a lot that was going on all at once And for the most part, I feel like I’m pretty good at being able to handle things quickly and understanding how the pieces can work But there are times where based on traumas and even ptsd That my brain just feels like mush like there’s so much going on But I can typically separate those things and work through them. However, when the trauma is involved with it coupled along with

(21:59.03)
that monkey brain being mush in with feeling insecure and feeling unsafe and feeling like I needed to have all the information and all the answers like that, just immediately.

(22:17.118)
I could tell there was some stress there no matter what, within my heart and within my mind, and I could feel it. Like I even feel now as I talk about it, there’s a bit of an energy going through my body. Part of the energy is, I get hyped doing these podcast episodes, but you know, I’m just on. But some of this is also subconsciously reliving what that was and what those other situations were and how the traumas kind of stacked upon themselves.

(22:47.15)
So being aware that something was off was kind of the first part of that. My partner’s great at being able to be empathetic and understanding and intuitive where she can sense when something’s off in advance, way in advance from when I can. She can just sense that. Some of that comes from her traumas as well where she’s had to really grow into that superhuman

(23:16.014)
sort of intuition tapping to be able to understand that was a way to keep her safe and for me there are times where it was easier for me to just kind of deflect or bypass things, especially as I got older and it was really painful to go back and work through those traumas and think about those and live in those traumas and be really aware of those and be present in those moments, but with the situation that happened and the stress that was going on I knew

(23:45.79)
in my mind that it really wasn’t that crazy. Things needed to be put together and that I was having a hard time piecing all the pieces together. But I also knew that I had a partner and other team members and everything else that was going on that could all just fit in place. But the traumas from before almost rendered me useless. There were a few times where I was like, I don’t know what to do. And I was just really

(24:14.958)
frustrated and Shaky and I could feel it in me. I Remember thinking All right. This is actually infecting Infecting the way that I’m doing Anything for the situation it’s stopping me from being able to think clearly and it’s stopping me from being able to understand what is real and what isn’t real and take inventory of everything and Compartmentalize or even just kind of piece it all together

(24:45.686)
because I had these feelings that were coming up and literally living at my cellular level. It took me a bit to be able to understand that though, because sometimes it’s easy for us to be able to just put our minds and our hearts and our body all together and just say I’m stressed, or I’m anxious, or I’m whatever. So being able to understand what’s actually happening and how it all ties together, how it all relates and how it all flows.

(25:15.626)
within itself is very important. Sometimes it’s really hard to decipher though and be able to understand which is which and which one do you need to work on first. I’d worked through that and once I understood that it was more of a cellular thing, it hit me almost like an aha moment of how many other traumas and experiences live in ourselves and how they come up and come out.

(25:41.602)
And with the commitment I made to myself that I’m going to feel through all of my emotions and be able to work through all of them but not spew them out, then it was something that I knew had to come up and get to the edge and even be able to teeter over that edge for me to actually be able to work through it. Being able to have the support that I have is crucial. And being able to have the love that I have is crucial.

(26:10.666)
in being in a safe space to be able to talk through this. So if you don’t feel like you have a safe space and you’re in a spot that’s like this, reach out. We can absolutely help. If you’re working through any sort of situation that you know I have these traumas that infect the way that I handle these sort of situations either at work or with family or whatever, then it’s being able to separate from those pieces and understanding what’s in your mind, what’s in your heart and what’s in your cells, what’s in your body. And you…

(26:40.418)
be able to feel when those things are happening. Even if you work through the mind and the heart pieces of it, you still may have it in yourselves just like what I’ve had. And as I’ve worked through this situation over the past few days working through it and understanding everything that’s happening within myself, it starts to help me release them and kind of break them apart and be able to understand what’s going through it. So

(27:09.27)
the situation that happened recently, when I became aware of the traumas living in my cells, I was able to actually do something about them. But it took me being aware of it, and then being able to take an inventory of what’s real, what’s going on, separating from the situation that was actually happening to the situation I thought was happening or I felt was happening, and being able to work through and unpack each piece of that. So, as you work through

(27:39.142)
any of your traumas or all of your traumas and you even think through what was considered a trauma, something that was distressing or a disturbing experience. And you can put different levels if you want, like somebody knocked over my coffee, maybe that’s a one, somebody killed a family member in front of me, maybe that’s a 10. And you know, kind of having those levels to it, that’s totally fine, whatever helps you with it.

(28:08.834)
being able to understand what is a trauma and as you think through it or feel through it feel if it’s happening in your body and what happens to your body when that happens. I’m sure I could have an entire episode about how actually being able to work through each and every piece of that but we could also talk if you need to be able to have specific one-on-one time with me let me know and we can talk about that but there’s a lot that goes into

(28:37.322)
how you actually work through your traumas, but you have to be aware of it first. So it took me being aware of what was happening, what was real, what wasn’t, what was living in my cells and what was living in the rest of my body or my mind or my heart, and being able to work through that. But understanding no matter what, when you feel that in your body, you can do what you need to do with it. Sometimes it’s just a matter of

(29:06.35)
taking that next step and saying I can feel this in my body but my intuition is telling me move on this then that can help you to break through that and be able to continue to build upon that muscle where you can set new neural pathways and create new experiences and get rid of the old experience but you need to know that it’s there to be able to do it so I really appreciate you spending the time with me today and

(29:37.046)
not only listening to the stories, but being able to think about your own trauma and how traumas live within yourselves and what happens when those traumas come up, what you do with them and how you move about them. Even if the biggest thing and the only thing you take away from this episode is just being aware of when you are in a traumatic experience or when you’re being triggered by a previous traumatic experience, that is crucial.

(30:05.226)
If that’s the only takeaway you get from this, then beautiful. Start to implement that as quickly as you can. Because once you’re aware of that, you have the power to do something with it. You can crumble and you can totally cry and shit yourself in the corner or whatever you need to do. Or you can be empowered and do something with it. Or you can do something right in the middle and be weird and awkward and like just work through it like everybody else is. But you have the power to be able to do that at that point.

(30:35.394)
So again, thank you for spending the time with me today. And if you’ve enjoyed the show, give us a five star review. It helps us be found and helps others be healed. And I really appreciate you being with us today.

In this episode, Nick talks about the importance of showing ourselves grace during our growth stages as well as our off-season from growth.

What to listen for:

“I need to show grace to myself. I’m not gonna be graceful in all the things that I do. I’m gonna be a fucking shit show in most of the situations and just kind of figuring life out. But having grace with myself as I move through things was crucial. It was also extremely difficult. It didn’t always work out the way that it needed to, but sometimes that’s what life looks like.”

“It can be really easy to beat yourself up. Maybe it’s just really easy for me. It might be similar for you. And if it’s easy for you to beat yourself up about those things, you can also find that little space in between beating yourself up and understanding that you need to do something and holding yourself accountable. There’s a space for grace right in the middle there.”

“Being able to show yourself grace in those seasons and in those dark times can help you to gracefully move through the rest of what’s gonna happen from there.”

About Nick McGowan

I’m Nick McGowan, entrepreneur, podcaster, and mental health advocate, and I’ve been on a 20+ year journey of personal development, learning to master my mindset, emotions, and the art of living with purpose.

As a Mindset and Self-Mastery Mentor, I work with ambitious men and women who want to live their most authentic and joyous life, by helping them master their mindset, emotional awareness, and authentic communication. My mission is to empower people to lead lives that feel aligned, grounded, and truly their own.

Throughout my career, I’ve built teams, streamlined systems, and improved client experiences across SaaS, media, marketing, and personal development spaces. Whether I’m leading cross-functional projects, optimizing SEO, Podcasting, designing strategies, or guiding clients through transformation, I bring a hands-on, solution-focused approach to everything I do.

I’m also the host of The Mindset and Self-Mastery Show, where my guests and I unpack the stories that shape us, challenge us, and ultimately guide us back to who we are at our core. On this show, we uncover the secret gems others have discovered through trial, error, and breakthroughs so you can fast-track your growth, and master your mindset on your pursuit toward self-mastery. 

With years of podcasting and two decades of marketing experience, I’ve mastered the storytelling, interview flow, strategy, and technical production that elevate a podcast from “just content” to something truly impactful. Whether you’re a leader looking to amplify your message, or a seasoned speaker and podcast host looking to sharpen your edge or even a beginner who is wondering how to share their message, I mentor thought leaders through every step of having the conversation they’re here to have on this planet.

So, what message are you here to share?!

Resources:

Check out these other episodes about showing ourselves grace during growth as well as life in general

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? Send Nick an email or schedule a time to discuss your podcast today!

[email protected]

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Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Nick McGowan Nick McGowan (00:01.602)
Sometimes having grace with ourselves is really difficult. Sometimes even just understanding that we’re going through shit and not that just we’ve been perpetually off for weeks or months or even years. But having grace with ourself is where things actually help us to be able to grow.

Nick McGowan (00:26.55)
and not just bypass things or deflect things, but to actually grow. But we need to start from a state of contentment at least to be able to understand like, all right, well, here’s where I’m at. Here’s what’s going on. And over the course of my life, I’ve had a lot of different times where I’ve interpreted a lot of different shit, just a ton of stuff. And when I was.

Nick McGowan (00:51.974)
18, 19 years old, I started to get into personal development and reading different books, going to seminars, meeting with different people. And I remember there was a huge difference between how I was when I was younger and who I was becoming when I was in my late teens, early twenties.

Nick McGowan (01:11.99)
But I remember feeling like I need to be graceful with myself. I need to show grace to myself. I’m not gonna be graceful in all the things that I do. I’m gonna be a fucking shit show in most of the situations and just kind of figuring life out. But having grace with myself as I move through things was crucial. It was also extremely difficult. It didn’t always work out the way that it needed to, but sometimes that’s what life looks like.

Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. And today on the show, I wanna talk about giving ourselves and showing ourselves grace as we move through our journey, not just in life, but our growth journey. The journey that we go through in personal development, spiritual growth, physical growth, mental.

Nick McGowan (02:22.798)
all of it. And it’s not going to look, it’s not going to look good. It’s not going to look graceful, let’s say, in most of the situations. I know for me it hasn’t. There have been times where even looking back and thinking in those moments I was doing what I could, but what the fuck was wrong with me? What was I doing? What was going on? I still needed to show myself grace in that exact moment and not judge myself.

Nick McGowan (02:50.454)
But if I step back to that moment, I really needed to be able to show myself grace as I went through things. So growing up, let’s just say from birth till about 18, almost 19 years old, I went through a lot of different stages of life. I had a lot of different traumas and childhood experiences that some were.

Nick McGowan (03:14.622)
Absolutely traumatizing somewhere not so great and somewhere extremely beautiful and fantastic experiences as emotional as I am and Hyper aware as I have become over the course of life It’s been really difficult for me to not show myself grace as I go through growth Sometimes there are seasons where it is really difficult and other times where there are seasons where I just kind of move through things really gracefully

Nick McGowan (03:44.374)
Just like there are seasons that when we go through growth periods, you’re going to change, you’re going to adapt and understanding how and why you do that is crucially important, but not always something that you get right off the bat in the moment. You don’t really understand all of it. Just like when people say hindsight is 2020.

Nick McGowan (04:06.126)
I remember thinking before when people would say that and I really started to register it. I was like, well fuck, why can’t hindsight be with me right now while I walk through this? So that I don’t have to get to that thing later. But that’s part of the journey of it and it’s okay if you go through different seasons where you just don’t want to grow. It’s okay. A lot of people go through that and by a lot of people, I’m gonna step out on a limb here and say, everybody.

Nick McGowan (04:34.99)
Probably everybody has gone through something like that. There are just moments and periods of time where you’re like, you know, I don’t really want to work through this stuff right now. It’s really difficult. And sometimes that’s when you need to actually show yourself grace to be able to work through those moments and not abandon or deflect.

Nick McGowan (04:57.13)
or to repress those things, but to work through them in the way that you need to work through them in how you are. So when I was 19 years old, I got into a company that was really personal development driven, and it basically seemed like they were just trying to create different leaders and tons of people and just grow them up. But things that really stood out to me were how some of these people led their lives and how some of the people really just wore a mask.

Nick McGowan (05:27.366)
in their life, in the business but also in their own personal life, but there was a common thread through all of them.

Nick McGowan (05:34.474)
There’s personal growth and personal development. People were reading tons of books. They were going to seminars and classes, and it seemed like everybody was really working on themselves. As a 19-year-old kid who had basically recently overdosed on heroin, broke up with his girlfriend, the high school girlfriend, and had a band dissolve that should have been something big, and lots of life change was happening, I knew that I needed to actually step into that

Nick McGowan (06:04.628)
and that’s where I felt like I was being called to be. And I remember reading some books that people gave me, some John C. Maxwell books, Zig Ziggler books, listening to different…

Nick McGowan (06:17.994)
cassettes at that point and some CDs of different seminars and just talks that a lot of different people gave, Tony Robbins even, some of those old like Awaken the Giant Within and stuff like that. And I remember really latching onto those things because I wanted to grow. I wanted to learn. And I didn’t want to be how I was before. So my motivation was not just to grow and learn, but I had motivation to get away from

Nick McGowan (06:48.868)
even if that past was just a few weeks before that. And I really didn’t want to be where I was before, and there was a lot of pain and negativity tied to that. I also had a really difficult time showing myself grace within that time period, because I wanted to grow so badly. And I wanted to be so different than what I had been before, where I had been before, who I had been with.

Nick McGowan (07:12.146)
And I remember stepping into that personal development growth bubble, let’s say, and being just clumsy and not knowing what to do or how to do or what to say or how to say things.

Nick McGowan (07:29.762)
But I remember going through it and showing myself that I could do these things. So if you think back for yourself when you first read a personal development book, where you started to really understand that there was a lot more growth ahead of you, you can probably look back and say, well, the weeks, months, maybe even years that followed that were weird. There was a lot of change, but there was a lot of clumsiness that happened with it.

Nick McGowan (07:59.146)
And that’s why I’m talking about showing yourself grace through those moments. It can be really easy to beat yourself up. Maybe it’s just really easy for me. It might be similar for you.

Nick McGowan (08:11.706)
And if it’s easy for you to beat yourself up about those things, you can also find those, that little space in between the beating yourself up and understanding that you need to do something and holding yourself accountable. There’s a space for grace right in the middle there. And grace isn’t one of those things where you say, you know, I’ll get to it and I’ll figure it all out. It’s all gonna be okay. That can be bypassy and like deflecting the actual thing that’s happening. But.

Nick McGowan (08:38.669)
Having the moments where you just say, okay, this is where I’m at right now. This is what I’m working through and it’s going to be how it’s going to be. That’s what I believe is showing yourself that grace in those moments to be able to understand actually what’s going on without flavoring things, without just getting stuck in the moment or beating the hell out of yourself because you’re not where you should be. And sometimes…

Nick McGowan (09:06.754)
that needs to just be how it is. Where you show yourself some grace to be able to move through a space without actually repressing or deflecting or bypassing anything. But you show yourself grace to be able to move through it. And sometimes that will really help you be able to actually move through it quicker. Or at least a little more smoothly.

Nick McGowan (09:32.61)
Because if you think about removing the emotions or the negative feelings that you have just around yourself or a situation, when you can think or feel clearly because you’re showing yourself grace, then things will start to pop up for you. It’s not always the case. Sometimes you’re just showing yourself grace so you’re not going fucking bat shit crazy. Sometimes you’re able to show yourself grace and go, you know what? This is right.

Nick McGowan (10:02.934)
This is what I should be doing.

Nick McGowan (10:05.338)
Or, no, this is wrong and I shouldn’t be doing these things. And being able to see those answers pop up and feel those answers pop up. So throughout the course of my journey, stepping back to when I was 18, 19 years old and started to understand that I needed to do something different. I needed to look at different things differently and needed to become different myself, I had often looked back at those times and judged myself, not shown myself

Nick McGowan (10:35.392)
I remember wanting to be so different than how I was in the past that I just completely flip-flopped and I went into this almost the evangelical sort of approach of just everything is growth everything is personal development but that made me put a mask on because I was hiding my feelings I was hiding the emotions that I had

Nick McGowan (11:01.326)
I was hiding what was actually going on and how there were times where I was confused. But that future version of me, even a few years or 10 years later, I would judge myself at times and think, well, he wasn’t showing himself grace. And I wasn’t showing myself grace in those moments. I wasn’t being graceful with myself or at least understanding where I was in those moments.

Nick McGowan (11:26.346)
And we can look back, we can understand that there are times where, yeah, Nick, I get it. I’ve done that to myself too.

Nick McGowan (11:36.482)
But when we continue to do it, that’s a pattern that we can actually stop if we’re aware of it. So I want you to become aware of that, just like I’ve become aware of that. Sometimes it takes somebody else outside of you to become aware of that for you or alert you to it. And there are other times where it’s literally just on you. That’s most of the times where it’s just on you to be able to figure that out and kind of go through your experiment of it. Of what’s happening? What have I done? What am I learning? What’s going on?

Nick McGowan (12:05.378)
but showing yourself grace as you move through it. So when I think back to the path that I started to walk down when I was starting on my personal development journey.

Nick McGowan (12:19.11)
and thinking back at that moment to where I didn’t want to be and who I was in the past and really doing everything I could to run that race of becoming somebody different, I started to really create or at least strengthen what my winning strategy was and how I could win in life that would set me into a groove that was going to fuck me up. I didn’t know it at the time, but I know it now.

Nick McGowan (12:48.964)
that I was starting the personal development journey, my legs were cut out from underneath me. I ended up meeting some people that were in the personal development and personal growth circles, some people that were basically on tour, speaking and teaching and learning that there was a lot of hypocrisy and a lot of bullshit that was being fed to us.

Nick McGowan (13:13.054)
And the amount of hypocrisy that I was seeing where people were saying things, but they were acting a different way behind closed doors or in a green room before or after they were up on stage was mind bending to me. And it also, like I said, a few minutes ago, it cut my legs out from me. And I remember thinking, fuck this. These people are just as fake as all the other people were. I didn’t show grace to those people.

Nick McGowan (13:41.746)
And you know, granted, I probably didn’t need to because the people that were being very hypocritical, yes, maybe I saw them in a moment of weakness or whatever, but there were people that consistently showed the patterns of that. But I needed to show grace with myself. So if you’ve seen or been a part of anything like that before, or you have gone like, you know what? Fuck that. I knew this was all trash.

Nick McGowan (14:05.098)
and you start to step away from something, pause and figure out if this is something that you’re stepping away from because you wanna step away from, that you need to step away from for your safety, or if it’s something that you’re kind of just bypassing and you’re trying to get away from something because the rest of it’s really difficult. I can look back now and I can see that I stepped away from personal growth and personal development for a season.

Nick McGowan (14:30.966)
Because I didn’t know what else to do. I had no idea. I thought I’d gotten to a point I thought things were great where they were and then when they started to crumble I thought that it was part of this growth that I was on and I started to beat myself up members right around the same time with Realizing that there was a lot of hypocrisy and just bullshit that was being spewed out

Nick McGowan (14:55.218)
I also lost the company that I had. We just completely went down. Everything was a mess. And it was also right around when the economy started collapsing. And I remember lying on the couch at my mom’s house after thinking for the past few years, I’ve been working on myself. I’ve been working on my personal development.

Nick McGowan (15:19.534)
I’ve been trying to grow, I just had this company and I’ve traveled all over the place and made a bunch of money and now what the fuck? I’m lying here on this couch trying to figure out what do I do from here? And there was a moment of just showing myself grace that I really appreciate that I had that moment. I can picture that, lying on the couch in the mudroom or the porch area of my mom’s house. And…

Nick McGowan (15:47.694)
crying and just not being sure of what had all happened and what’s going to happen next. And then being able to feel that grace moment of everything’s going to work. It’s going to be okay because I know that I’m not going to give up. I know that there’s more in me. Right now in this moment, this sucks and I need to work through it and I’m going to be okay.

Nick McGowan (16:14.034)
And being able to show yourself grace in those moments is crucial to be able to move forward. Sometimes it’s really difficult to do it. I get that. And it’s not like one of those things where you go, oh, right here, this is that moment where I have to show myself grace and then everything’s gonna be fixed. It’s not a fucking magical pill. That’s not how this works. But being able to show yourself grace in those seasons and in those dark times can help you to gracefully move through the rest of what’s gonna happen from there.

Nick McGowan (16:42.974)
So after all that had happened, I remember taking a bit of a step back and I was like, I’m not going to do any personal development stuff, any growth. I don’t want to read any books. I don’t want to listen to any books. I just want to go have fun. Uh, I even went, worked at a music store for a little while. And part of that was fun. Part of that was also soul sucking. Like there were times where it just felt like I wasn’t actually doing what I was called to do.

Nick McGowan (17:07.554)
but I needed to take some of that time to be able to do that. Because maybe 10 ish years or so later, I’d thought back to that time. And it hit me that I needed to have that season where I was off, sort of the off season in a sense. I’m a big sports fan, mainly basketball and football.

Nick McGowan (17:29.122)
And I always think about what people do in the off season and how do they work on themselves in the off season? I’m sure people go on, you know vacations and stuff like that And there are some people that i’ve seen in different interviews It’s primarily I think basketball players that i’ve seen where they’re like I just keep playing all throughout the entire off season and then

Nick McGowan (17:55.73)
My conditioning is up, my skills are better, and they just keep going. They just keep working on themselves. But they always have a little bit of time where they’re off and they’re just not constantly on. There are some people where they take a little bit of time or even a few weeks or a month or whatever it looks like for them.

Nick McGowan (18:15.478)
to have their off season and that’s okay. I’ve seen some people shame people about that. Specifically superstar athletes where they’re like, you can’t have off seasons. You have to keep going. You have to keep playing. You have to keep doing these things. You have to be better than pick a name. MJ, Kobe, whatever you want. Just pick one.

Nick McGowan (18:37.342)
And that’s where these people are being told that they have to do all these things. Sometimes we do need to have that off season. And again, it’s okay to have that time where you’re just not constantly on. So right now, think about those moments where you were just gung ho about life. You were all excited about personal development or just the growth that you were on, whatever business you’re in or relationship you were in and how you were working through things. And then how that started to fizzle a bit.

Nick McGowan (19:07.396)
to become burnout. Think about that.

Nick McGowan (19:12.746)
And think about those times where you started to pull yourself out of that. It was like a little bit of a lull, right? Where you were all excited about these things, something happened, maybe knocked you off course a little bit. You took a little bit and maybe, maybe you just completely dropped the ball and you stopped for six months, a year, two years, five years, whatever. But then when you’re able to start to climb back up in those moments, when you start to climb back up.

Nick McGowan (19:43.134)
It’s been there the entire time. It’s just, you’ve needed to actually work through those things. And if you hadn’t, that length of time will get further and further and further. So if it took you a few months or took you a few years or a decade or whatever, you needed to work through that. Even in those times when you didn’t work through that. And that’s okay. But it’s the fact that you’ve worked through it and you’ve gotten through it.

Nick McGowan (20:11.016)
Just like listening to this podcast episode right now.

Nick McGowan (20:14.638)
If you can think, yeah, I’ve had some of those times, but I got through those times and here’s where I’m at. Or if you’re like, look, I’m in one of those times right now, but I’m still listening to this podcast, or I still read different things every now and again, and I try different things, the great keep at it. That’s the grace I’m talking about, where you’re able to actually show yourself grace within those moments, even in the off season, even in the lulls, even when you don’t want to fucking do it at all. It’s okay.

Nick McGowan (20:44.51)
What’s not okay is completely bypassing or deflecting or repressing what you’ve gone through and just shutting it all down so on that note Maybe four or five years ago at this point. I remember basically choosing to abandon myself within my marriage that I had

Nick McGowan (21:08.534)
thinking I don’t want to go through this stuff right now. I don’t want to talk about these things I’m just going to deflect them or I’ll bypass them or I’ll just push them deeper down and hope that at some point that’ll fix they’ll fix themselves and I legitimately remember sitting on a chair and Thinking yeah now’s not the time don’t talk about those things. I’ll just do them later Basically, let future Nick deal with those later and future Nick would be like what the fuck

Nick McGowan (21:36.266)
When it was future next time, you turn around and look and be like, you fucking kidding me? There’s nothing that I can do with that now, but I could only do something in those moments. And I remember starting to make that climb back up and being like, okay, I’m going to get out of this. I’m going to figure this stuff out. And having grace with myself in those moments to understand where I was when I said I was going to abandon myself.

Nick McGowan (22:02.326)
And just like you, having grace with yourself in those moments where you go, well, look, I just completely shut things out for a while because it’s okay to go through seasons where you’re not constantly growing. It’s also okay to have those seasons where that’s all you’re doing is just constantly growing, but there’s a balance to it. Not like a 50 50 balance or anything, but you’ve got to be aware of what you’re doing and what’s actually happening.

Nick McGowan (22:27.934)
If you’re going completely down some crazy path of personal development or just growth and whatever, it could almost become an addiction, just like it had become with me. I went from heroin as an addiction and some other addictions to personal development and growth being an addiction because I had such a negativity or such negativity that I tied to who I was before that. That I was like, I will never, ever do that again. So this must be the answer.

Nick McGowan (22:57.91)
And you’ve just got to become aware of that. So understanding that you can have different seasons and different times where you’re growing and different times where you’re just allowing yourself to work through things is really important, but understand where that comes from.

Nick McGowan (23:16.03)
I think for myself, when I was a young kid, it was really difficult for me to be able to express myself emotionally. And sometimes it was even difficult for myself to communicate internally of what is actually happening outside of interpretation of what I believe was happening or what could have been happening because there was a lot of inconsistencies around me. People would say one thing and do something different or…

Nick McGowan (23:42.622)
I would just see things that just didn’t compute to how I thought things should be. And the older I’ve gotten, the more that I’ve understood that life’s just going to be how it’s going to be. And there’s no should or there’s no shouldn’t. It’s a matter of what we do with those things in those moments. But from being a child, it shapes who we are and shapes what we’re doing and what we’re about. And it’s really taking a step back to be able to understand how does that affect you right now for me.

Nick McGowan (24:12.816)
I felt very unsafe and I felt like the older I got the more that I would express and say things to people and I would have that unsafe feeling just compounded because some people would tell me like oh this is too much or you’re ruining my day or I just can’t be around you right now or whatever and I would I learned in some ways to just keep it to myself Recently had an experience where

Nick McGowan (24:39.826)
I was a bit off, just having a weird morning. And my girlfriend can call that out. She can feel that, she can sense that. And I told her, there’s a little bit of this or that, but for the most part, everything’s okay. And I’m okay. And I wasn’t.

Nick McGowan (25:02.11)
And I didn’t really know how to communicate that internally because I didn’t know exactly what the thing was. And I wanted to be able to go, Ooh, it’s this thing right here. This exact thing. This is it. Just like going out. Well, this is the problem. Oh, well, if I fix that, everything’s going to go great from there. And it made me understand that not being able to communicate that internally.

Nick McGowan (25:25.13)
I needed to show grace in myself and allow that to take its time. Because when I was younger, if I said to somebody, I’m not good right now, or I’m not feeling well or I’m upset or whatever, immediately there’d be a question of, well, what is it then? And if I didn’t have an answer, then I would basically be gaslit, being told like, no, no, you’re just crazy. There’s nothing wrong.

Nick McGowan (25:50.542)
Or I’d be questioned for feeling any sort of way that I was feeling because I didn’t have an answer to what was actually happening. So I’ve learned over the course of time, well, I guess it’s better for me to just hold onto that shit until I know exactly what’s going on and that isn’t healthy. So in that experience recently with my girlfriend working through that.

Nick McGowan (26:12.962)
that put a little bit of a tiff between us because she could sense that. And I knew that there was something there, but I didn’t know exactly what was happening enough to say anything or go, well, it’s this. However, I took this, the step to be able to say earlier in the day, these are the two things that I think are happening. And I think I’m good with that. Remember thinking to my head like that’s okay for now because.

Nick McGowan (26:42.798)
That’s all I got. That’s all I understood. And later in the day, having grace with myself, understanding that, yeah, that may have been all that you had at the moment, but in a safe space, you are safe and you are able to actually be able to talk about things. So if you don’t have a safe space, if you don’t feel like you have a safe space, then I encourage you to find one. Whether that’s talking with somebody who could be a safe space, a c, or a c, or a c***,

Nick McGowan (27:10.926)
therapist, a counselor, a really close friend, somebody that could be a safe space for you or coaching with me and I’ll be that safe space for you. Being able to find that safe space is important for you to actually be able to talk through those things. Even if you’re like, I don’t really know what to say. There’s been something I’ve said over the course of maybe the past five or six months.

Nick McGowan (27:36.67)
If I don’t know what to talk about or what’s actually going on in my head, or there’s something that has to come out, I’ll say, I don’t exactly know what to say, but these are the words that are in my head right now. And being able to get that out. And understanding that even if I’m not in a fully safe space within that moment, that I’m in a safe space here. And that takes time and growth and energy and a lot of work to be able to get to that point.

Nick McGowan (28:01.466)
I’m not saying I’m any fucking guru or somebody that knows how to do this stuff on command all the time Because being in those moments can be really tough at times But it is making sure that We allow ourselves the space To have grace with ourself and to find that safe space to be able to do that So again, if you don’t feel like you have a safe space Find it However, you can find it

Nick McGowan (28:28.258)
There are resources that we offer. I can help with that. And there are other people that can help with that too. But find the safe space that you can be within. But I also encourage you to find that within yourself. Show yourself the grace for those times when you didn’t have grace for yourself.

Nick McGowan (28:46.434)
those times where you took a little bit of time off to just relax or to maybe get away from something and show yourself grace even if in those moments you deflect it or bypass things because then you’re aware of it and you can do something different next time but show yourself grace within those times of your growth and within the off season and just keep working through it however that needs to happen. Sometimes that

Nick McGowan (29:16.248)
like taking a nap or going to sleep. Like your body just needs that bit of rest and you can take that rest. But finding that safe space within yourself, within a partner, within a coach, within anywhere that’s going to help you be able to actually understand what do you need to do from this point on. But it starts at least a piece of it is with that grace that you show yourself to be able to understand that I can move forward with these things.

Nick McGowan (29:46.642)
and not kind of cloud yourself. Don’t throw extra bullshit into the way to just be able to mess with yourself. That’s not going to help you at all. So again, show yourself grace as you move through this, allow yourself the space and the time to be able to have those concentrated.

Nick McGowan (30:06.674)
segments of life where you work through things and then those concentrated segments of life where you have a bit of an off season And you’re able to recharge and relax or you just get away from something But if you’re getting away just to get away from it because it’s too hard to work on Then that’s where that safe space comes into play And again, if you have any questions as you work through this as you ponder it or pray about it or think about it even deeper Reach out

Nick McGowan (30:33.954)
There are resources that we have that can help you. There’s coaching that we have on our team that can help you. It’s just a matter of being able to understand that you don’t have to do this alone. Even most times when you are doing it alone, you can still show yourself grace and you can be able to get through things.

Nick McGowan (30:53.238)
So thank you for checking this episode out. Again, if you have any questions or just comments that you’d like to talk about from today’s episode, please send me a message. And I really appreciate you listening and hope that this helps.

In this episode, Nick discusses a recent experience of making major life decisions and changes by trusting his intuition and insight as to how you can make decisions through your intuition. Sometimes, life seems to throw curveballs at us, while other times, we seem to summon our own curveballs. Nick found the intuition to be like a muscle that needs to be worked, or it will atrophy.

What to listen for

“I’ve changed up a lot of things that I’m doing. And recently, I’ve been diving deeper and deeper into who I am, my personality, my personality type, what I’m really made of, and why I’ve made a lot of the decisions that I’ve made over the course of my life.”

“I’ve struggled with my intuition, literally struggled with it. I’ve gotten to the point over the course of, I’d say, the past maybe five or ten years, really working on the muscle of my intuition. And having conversations with God, having conversations with my intuition, which I think are all basically about the same anyway, and really being able to pull that knowledge, that universal knowledge.”

About Nick McGowan

I’m Nick McGowan, entrepreneur, podcaster, and mental health advocate, and I’ve been on a 20+ year journey of personal development, learning to master my mindset, emotions, and the art of living with purpose.

As a Mindset and Self-Mastery Mentor, I work with ambitious men and women who want to live their most authentic and joyous life, by helping them master their mindset, emotional awareness, and authentic communication. My mission is to empower people to lead lives that feel aligned, grounded, and truly their own.

Throughout my career, I’ve built teams, streamlined systems, and improved client experiences across SaaS, media, marketing, and personal development spaces. Whether I’m leading cross-functional projects, optimizing SEO, Podcasting, designing strategies, or guiding clients through transformation, I bring a hands-on, solution-focused approach to everything I do.

I’m also the host of The Mindset and Self-Mastery Show, where my guests and I unpack the stories that shape us, challenge us, and ultimately guide us back to who we are at our core. On this show, we uncover the secret gems others have discovered through trial, error, and breakthroughs so you can fast-track your growth, and master your mindset on your pursuit toward self-mastery. 

With years of podcasting and two decades of marketing experience, I’ve mastered the storytelling, interview flow, strategy, and technical production that elevate a podcast from “just content” to something truly impactful. Whether you’re a leader looking to amplify your message, or a seasoned speaker and podcast host looking to sharpen your edge or even a beginner who is wondering how to share their message, I mentor thought leaders through every step of having the conversation they’re here to have on this planet.

So, what message are you here to share?!

Resources:

Check out Episode #18 with Liz M. Lopez to get into this topic at a different angle and more pointed toward your career.

As well as Episode #31 with Claire Campagna to hear about a situation that was stirring in her soul and led to stepping out of her comfort zone through the help of her intuition.

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? Send Nick an email or schedule a time to discuss your podcast today!

[email protected]

Thank you for listening!

Please subscribe on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089

Watch Clips and highlights: www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA

Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self-Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show, I’m gonna be talking about making major life changes and when to trust your instincts and how to trust your instincts. So recently, I’ve gone through a lot of changes. I’ve made some big, big, big moves, literally moving 1,500 miles away.

to a state that I never thought that I would ever live in, but it actually shares my initials, which is always kind of cool. As a quick nerd moment, when I was in grade school, I remember realizing that the state that I’m in now shared my initials and thought like, oh, that’s kind of cool, like there’s that, you know? Then I remember thinking, I’ll probably never ever live there, maybe never even travel there, like what the hell is there? But I digress, I’ve moved, I left corporate America.

I’ve changed up a lot of things that I’m doing. And recently, I’ve been diving deeper and deeper into who I am, my personality, my personality type, what I’m really made of, and why I’ve made a lot of the decisions that I’ve made over the course of my life. In a later episode, I’m going to unpack a bit more specifically about the winning strategy, and overall what I’ve figured out.

For myself and why I’ve done the things that I’ve done that’s for a later episode. There’s gonna be a solo episode about that There’s also gonna be a guest episode with somebody who was on the show before Was actually chatting with the guy a bit earlier today about being on the episode to talk specifically about our winning strategy Give you a little bit of a hint though winning strategy isn’t what you think it is because when somebody says well, what’s your winning strategy? What’s the winning strategy for the business or whatever?

I don’t know why I keep doing that, but I think like it’s one of those go fucking get them sort of deals. Because everybody thinks that there’s this winning strategy you put together, let’s say in business, you go, oh, the winning strategy, this will get us to this place. This strategy will help us win. What I’ve learned is that this is the thing that has fucking crippled me over the course of my life because it’s actually helped me to be able to do the things that pigeonhole me in a way.

Nick Nickmcgowan Com (03:05.314)
I’m not going to go down that path, but I wanted to give you a little bit of a heads up of that’s gonna be coming. Because as I talk about making major life changes and trusting your instincts and following your instincts, I want you to think about recently, what changes have you made in life? Now you might be saying right off the bat, like, well, nothing really, it’s the same shit, just over and over and over again. If that’s the case, why? And why aren’t you making any life changes?

Not saying that you have to, but just to pose the question. What is it? Why haven’t you done it? Is there something you should do? Some change that you should make, that you know that you should make it, but you’re just fighting with it? One of those changes for me was specifically leaving corporate America. It’s easy for me to just keep saying corporate America, but it’s really any fucking job that you have. I believe there are certain people.

that are really built to be a worker for somebody else. Like that’s what they want, that’s what they do. They’re not the entrepreneurial type. And that’s fine, like completely fine, because that’s their jam and that’s their life. I, however, and you may be the same way, have realized that I’m an entrepreneur through and through and through, even with the companies that I’ve worked at over the course of my career. Let’s say the past 20 years or so.

Nick Nickmcgowan Com (04:33.586)
I have really tried to figure out how do I do the best that I can in a very entrepreneurial way. Like I remember even saying to the company I was at most recently, I was like, I don’t give a fuck who’s at the top. I own what I can own. I would really appreciate your help from the top or from whatever direction they’re at or whatever level they’re at. But I just take ownership with the stuff that I have because that’s part of how an entrepreneur operates.

We don’t give a fuck who is in charge. It’s almost like when somebody says, hey, can you take the trash out? And you go, well, it’s not my trash out. It’s not my trash to take out. Who the fucking cares whose trash it is to take out? Just take out the fucking trash. Just take it out, doesn’t matter. Just do the thing. And that’s on a very small scale, like when you’re at home. And that just happens. If you live by yourself, then you know you’re the only person that’s gonna fucking take that trash out. If not, shit’s gonna stink real bad.

especially with some of the shit that people eat. Or just the stuff that we have that we throw out. If you have a family, or if you live with a partner, or you live with roommates or whatever, there have been different situations, I’m sure, where you can look back at that and go, well, I remember saying to my wife or my partner or my roommate or whatever, like, hey, can you take the trash out? And somebody might’ve said that to you before, like, well, it’s not my trash.

I’m not gonna take it out. And you may have been like, all right, we’ll find whatever, I’ll go take it out. Some people will be like, yeah, really, fuck you. Take out the fucking trash. Or they go, oh, note to self, now I know a bit more about your character. But think about those ways that you react in those situations and how that translates into what you do at work as your own company or a company that you work for. Now back to the entrepreneurial thing.

Nick Nickmcgowan Com (06:30.518)
with the companies that I’ve been part of, I’ve just taken ownership with whatever I can take ownership with. And that wasn’t an ego thing. I’m sure there were certain moments where there was ego driven, and there were pieces that tied into my winning strategy. I know I’m planting seeds with that, but that was a big, big, big thing. And it’s a big thing that I continue to think through and feel through, because the more that I’ve understood about myself, I’m not the think first and then do something. I’m the feel first.

Then do something and then I think about it and understanding that is really really important so Leaving corporate America was something that I felt like I needed to do for Probably the past three years But was a little not even a little fuck it. I was afraid to do it. I was terrified in certain ways I took that corporate America job that I recently had

Nick Nickmcgowan Com (07:28.746)
as part of my winning strategy, as part of a way that I could appease my ex-wife and I could talk through how I can do these things that I wasn’t able to do in my own business before. And that really jaded me from being an entrepreneur. I remember being in an interview with three high-level people at the company I was with, recently that I was with, and they’d said to me, they were like, well, it looks like you’ve started.

Handful of different companies and you’ve had companies at different times. So what is really gonna make this any different? We want somebody’s gonna be here for a long time. What’s to say that in five years? You’re not just gonna start another company and leave and I was like, well look I don’t want to think about five years from now right now I want to think about not hating myself for my life for wanting to commit suicide Like I had been and I didn’t say all that in the middle of the interview It’s a little much for people to handle

Nick Nickmcgowan Com (08:23.414)
But I remember saying to them, I don’t want to think about that because what I want to think about is how I can help and how I can use the skillsets that I have, which was part of my winning strategy, to be able to help the ways that I could. And I could take ownership with the things that I could do. But I was like, I don’t wanna take care of anybody’s paychecks. I don’t wanna take care of keeping the lights on, none of that. I just wanna go do my job. I wanna go sell. I wanna build relationships. I wanna do these things, et cetera. And that’s what I did.

for, it was about five years that I was there, then I started a company and left. So they were pretty much right. But I remember thinking in those moments, like early on, like I can do these things because this gets me away from the other thing that I felt like I couldn’t get out of anymore. So for the past three years, I’ve struggled with how do I actually leave a mark and how do I make something worthwhile?

within somebody else’s organization. And I’ve struggled with my intuition, literally struggled with it. I’ve gotten to the point over the course of, I’d say the past maybe five or 10 years, really working on the muscle of my intuition. And having conversations with God, having conversations with my intuition, which I think are all basically about the same anyway, and really being able to pull that knowledge, that universal knowledge.

from within to be able to answer just direct questions at times, what should I do with this? What should I do with that? And there are times where I can feel it just come right up and it’s the answer that I need. There are other times where I almost see just like an emoji like with a shrug, like, I don’t know, like, what do you mean you don’t know? Help me, help all of us sort of thing. And some of the times over the past three years, I’ve really struggled with how do I make this shift?

Nick Nickmcgowan Com (10:20.782)
and why aren’t I actually making the shift? So when I left my company, my last company, let’s say five and a half, six years ago, I remember thinking, well, we were only pulling the money that we needed to pull, and the rest of the money was going directly into the company, and I was challenged by my ex-wife at the time. She said, look, you could leave and you could probably make triple the amount within a year, whatever.

Nick Nickmcgowan Com (10:49.742)
Not only did that happen, but when I signed a contract with a new company, I instantly was set up for a salary that was basically at triple and then commission, bonuses, etc. So over the past two years, I made more of that money. And part of that was also not being married and I got to keep more of that money. But being able to understand that that was tying me in and keeping me

Nick Nickmcgowan Com (11:19.662)
away from my intuition. Because even as my intuition started to tell me, you need to go, you need to leave. I remember thinking to myself, well I don’t know how to do that. How do I leave and take care of my bills? How do I leave and take care of these things that I wanna do, this lifestyle that I have? How do I do it and still keep the things that I want was basically what I was proposing. And I wasn’t getting direct answers.

Some of those answers were kind of convoluted, muddy, and not really helping me at all. It was crazy to me at times. There were times where I thought I was actually going nuts because I had no idea what to do next. I had no idea if I needed to make any moves, no idea if I should just shut the fuck up and just sleep, no idea if I should just stay and just keep going and hope that someday it would just all work out.

Nick Nickmcgowan Com (12:15.278)
And again, over the past few years, I’ve really started to hone in on that muscle and work on my listening skills with my intuition. And it doesn’t always happen when you want it to happen. Like, it’s not a matter of just being like, hey, where’s this parking spot? Where’s the best parking spot? Go up here, make a left, and go that, and reverse, and you’re totally good. That might happen for you, but probably not. Because that’s not really how it works. But being able to actually…

Nick Nickmcgowan Com (12:45.454)
Sink into the space that you’re in and I’m just gonna unpack where I was at with corporate America I knew that there were things that were really stressing me and I know based on how I React to life and how I work with life that if something is really stressing me out That’s pretty much a no for me. I need to stop doing those things I know that I operate best by feeling through and feeling joy

and when I’m joyous, I’m in a flow state, and when I’m not, it takes away from everything in my life. Can you relate? Is that something that you deal with? Or is there something that’s maybe similar in certain ways? Are there things that you go through that you realize when you’re aggravated or when something happens that it actually cascades all the rest of the things that you do throughout life? Again, for me, it’s the aggravation.

that aggravation tells me there’s something wrong. It doesn’t tell me there’s something that you just need to push through. That’s not the case. It’s never actually been that case. But there have been many, many, many, many, many times that I’ve just said, well, fuck it. I’m just gonna keep pushing and basically continuing to push upstream instead of allowing myself to kind of flow and get into that rhythm and that flow.

So being able to separate from what is the aggression and what’s the aggravation and what are the things that I just don’t like and don’t wanna deal with and have become jaded by and what’s actually happening. So I separated those things about, let’s say three months ago at this point. I started to really separate them. And I’m not saying I sat down with a pad of paper and a pen and was like, let me separate all these things.

and just went out all the way to the list and tried to figure this stuff out. There’s a little bit of that, but nothing crazy like that. There’s no wild system that I went through with it. I could just feel it churning within my being and starting to separate what was real and what was really happening. And separating from the interpretations of I know that I can interpret things. Like if somebody, basically if somebody were to yell at you, like in the middle of a store, they cut you off or something.

Nick Nickmcgowan Com (15:08.814)
I may have done something wrong to them by getting too close to their car or their cart or whatever, but for the most part it’s probably not me. That’s just my interpretation of it. And it could be something that they’re just really upset about or they’re worried about or whatever, but I don’t know. So I started to separate from the interpretation of what was actually happening within my day to day with corporate America and started to realize that I’m not actually built for this.

I’ve just been trying to do it. But really, I’m unemployable. That was even something I’d mentioned to HR when I was leaving in my final interview with them, or my exit interview with them. I was like, I’m just straight up unemployable at this point. And she agreed with me. She was like, I kind of knew that with you coming into this thing. But we appreciated the time that you gave us. And being able to pull away from the interpretation of

figuring out what’s exactly going on, how do I best fit, and what is it that I’m thinking and feeling that I actually wanna be a part of, allowed me to listen more to my intuition. And I started to ask repeatedly the same questions over and over and over and over again. Not all day long, but when it would rise up on my heart, I would ask the question, what am I supposed to do with this?

How do I go about this? And there’d be times where I’d feel nudges, but I’d have to cut through the noise. Now meditation can help with that. It’s helped me with that. Because really it’s just helping you become more present in the moment to be able to understand that all the noise that’s going on can be separated. So I started to really get into my intuition and get as close as I could and wanting to trust.

what would come up. So at one point, I felt it’s time to go. Okay, but when and how do I make this happen and didn’t hear anything else? So in the past, I would have just jumped on that. I would have pushed upstream. And that’s where this whole episode is about, being able to trust your instincts and trust that you’re making the right decision, at least the best decision you can in those moments, if you’re not.

pushing the decision So let me say that again. You do not want to push the decision You want it to flow through you and once it flows through you? It’s vastly different than you just taking it and cramming the decision in because that’s what you fucking want it’s not It’s not how it works. At least that’s not how it works for me. I Suspect it’s probably not how it works for you either But we all do that what we want this thing

We really want to push this thing. We go, all right, well, I don’t want to be here, so let me just get the fuck out of here and let me just push this and make it happen. And I struggled with it. I remember having conversations with my girlfriend about it and with my brother and one of my best friends saying this is the spot that I’m in and I really want to push this thing, but knowing that it wasn’t the right thing to do. So I rested on that and I took that space to be able to rest in that.

And it took me another few weeks, another maybe even month, month and a half to be able to get to the point where I actually felt like the end was coming and that I could make a decision that wasn’t going upstream, but it was going with the flow. So once I made that decision, it was because I heard it and felt it. But again, because I continued to ask that question of what am I supposed to do with this?

When do I make these moves? How do I make this happen? And listened intently to not let my mind get in the way and just say, will you do it like this? Shut up mind, calm down mind. Listen for the feel of it. Now you may be a bit different. You may need to think through it. And that’s where understanding your personality type, like your Enneagram and how you best operate will help you. For me, I know that I have to feel through things.

and the feeling happens first. But over the course of life, I’ve learned how to think about the things. Then, man, I can remember back being a little kid, my dad going, think, think, think, think, think, use your brain, use your brain, use your brain. And that got locked in my head. But as a hyper emotional person, I was like, but I’m not supposed to be doing this. And I kind of knew that as a young age, but I got so locked into that, that it took me a bit to be able to break away from it and better understand, how do I just feel this?

So again, back to corporate America, knowing that there were things that were happening, I started to separate myself from the interpretation and the bullshit stories that I was telling myself and actually understand what was happening. And there were some times where that was really tough to do because I remember there was straight up disrespect a few different times in a few public meetings, public like with the rest of the company or my division or what have you. And it was hard to not interpret that.

as a direct hit to me in my battleship. But I remember being able to separate from that, understanding that there was, there was a space for these people to believe what they wanted to believe, and there was a space for me to believe and feel what I wanted and needed to feel. And then there was actual truth in the middle of all of it. And that’s what I aimed to get to, was what is the truth to this?

What’s actually happening here? And what do I do from this point on? So when I made the decision to leave, it was because I felt it was the right thing to do. So I guess let me just kind of wrap this whole thing up. Being able to understand what’s actually happening, removing the interpretation and the stories that you can tell about what you think is actually happening.

is a key component to being able to separate yourself from any of the bullshit that could flood your system. Once you’re able to do that, you can then actually get to your intuition. Because if you have these stories and you have these interpretations, no matter what your intuition says, you’re going to go, yeah, but here’s this story. So being able to separate from that.

Nick Nickmcgowan Com (21:58.158)
is a key component to actually being able to get to the point where you can sit in that room with your intuition and go, okay, I’m wide open. Tell me what’s going to happen. What do I need to do? And being able to actually listen. Once you’re able to actually listen to it, then it’s on you to be able to do something with it. So having the understanding of removing all the interpretation, all the story.

Nick Nickmcgowan Com (22:28.910)
and then getting to a point where you can actually have conversations with your intuition and being able to listen to your intuition without coloring it with anything else that’s coming up because the mind’s just gonna play games and just gonna keep adding shit. Once you’re able to stop coloring that, you can then feel, at least for me, that really works, of how I feel through things, to be able to understand what actually needs to happen here. So.

Because this show is the mindset and self mastery show, being able to actually separate yourself from all these components, to be able to listen to your intuition is a key factor in self mastery. Which self mastery is basically just discipline. Having some sort of discipline to be able to do this. And it takes the actions to be able to do it. But it does take your mindset. It takes that crucial mindset of being able to pull yourself out of the interpretations. To say this is not what I’m going to.

I’m just not gonna stand for it. I’m not gonna listen to the bullshit. I’m not gonna create these stories. And even when the stories start to come up, it’s a matter of being able to separate from those stories and understand what story and what’s truth and how there can be a Venn diagram if they just kind of mesh together. But being able to separate from that and having the mental fortitude to be able to separate from that will take work to be able to do it.

So something you can do is think about the job or the position you have or even your own company. There’s always shit that’s going wrong, no matter what. Just life is gonna work the way it’s gonna work. No matter if you think it should or it shouldn’t, it’s going to do what it’s going to do. So think about something that has happened recently. Maybe something that you flew off the handle a bit or something that you cowered back on because you started to interpret how this…

maybe should be, or how it shouldn’t be, or what you think that this other person meant, or whatever bullshit story just formulated in your head and seeped down into your heart.

Nick Nickmcgowan Com (24:38.766)
and sit back, feel through it, or think through it, whichever is the way that you best operate, and be able to understand what was really going on there. Search for the truth of it. Figure out what objectively was happening, what you maybe should have done with it, or what you could have done with that situation. Now,

You may be able to go back and apologize or do something different or whatever, but that’s not the point to this. The point is to be able to use it as an example, as an activity, so that the next time something happens, maybe it’s something large like leaving a job or a career or shifting everything you do, or moving all the way across country or any of it, but being able to actually understand what is the truth here, like what factually happened.

That’s what I mean by truth. What actually happened? Like if somebody hit your car with their car, that’s what actually happened. If somebody did it on purpose because they hate you, that’s a piece of it, but that’s not the entire truth. The facts of what happened is that person’s car was driven directly into your car, or bumped your car, or whatever. But your interpretation is just coloring just flavoring to it.

It’s almost like how your emotions aren’t facts and keep that in mind because as you work through these different situations you’ll be able to better understand what’s actually happened, what do I feel or what am I thinking that I want to have happen from this or come from this or what’s actually been swirling around with the whole situation for me and separating those pieces as well. And then being able to actually

listen directly and intently to your intuition. Now, if you have a hard time with this, I get it. Take some time to be able to really figure that out. Feel free to reach out to me. That’s where coaching sessions can come into play or even just a quick chat to be able to help with some of this. Some of it might be just mental blocks that you need to get through. For the most part, there’s a lot of trauma that everybody goes through, and that’ll block people from being able to talk to their intuition.

or listen to their intuition, or even just be able to hear any of it. So I hope that you’ve gotten something out of this. If you have, I’d love to hear from you. If you haven’t, sure, go ahead, message me. Please don’t send hate mail, unless you really, really want to, but you know, we both understand that’s not gonna be useful. So thank you for your time. Thank you for being part of the show, and keep, keep

in tune with what we’re doing here at the show because coming up there’s going to be a lot more that we’re going to get into. I’m going to have some more guests that are on the show to specifically talk about intuition, winning strategies, the ways that we interpret things and how that we can best move through our traumas and process through all the stuff that’s happened to us and ultimately figure out what our true calling is in life. So I wish you all the best. I thank you for your time and have a great day.

In this episode,  Nick talks about how sometimes we, as podcasts, people, organizations, etc.… need to change, and that change is not only inevitable, but it’s totally ok. Over almost two years of the show’s existence, most of the episodes have been interview-style episodes, and it’s time for that to shift a bit.

Though the guests have been incredible, we’re taking a shift in the episode’s format to dive a bit deeper into Nick’s life, lessons, wise thoughts, and overall smartassisms.

Listen to the episode where Nick discusses why he started the show and learn more about the show’s catalyst events and early days. Check it out here.

What to listen for

“I still didn’t fully know when I was supposed to leave and what that was supposed to look like, and then one morning…”

“As an entrepreneur, I started another company.”

About Nick McGowan

I’m Nick McGowan, entrepreneur, podcaster, and mental health advocate, and I’ve been on a 20+ year journey of personal development, learning to master my mindset, emotions, and the art of living with purpose.

As a Mindset and Self-Mastery Mentor, I work with ambitious men and women who want to live their most authentic and joyous lives by helping them master their mindsets, emotional awareness, and authentic communication. My mission is to empower people to lead lives that feel aligned, grounded, and truly their own.

Throughout my career, I’ve built teams, streamlined systems, and improved client experiences across SaaS, media, marketing, and personal development spaces. Whether I’m leading cross-functional projects, optimizing SEO, Podcasting, designing strategies, or guiding clients through transformation, I bring a hands-on, solution-focused approach to everything I do.

I’m also the host of The Mindset and Self-Mastery Show, where my guests and I unpack the stories that shape us, challenge us, and ultimately guide us back to who we are at our core. On this show, we uncover the secret gems others have discovered through trial, error, and breakthroughs so you can fast-track your growth and master your mindset on your pursuit toward self-mastery. 

With years of podcasting and two decades of marketing experience, I’ve mastered the storytelling, interview flow, strategy, and technical production that elevate a podcast from “just content” to something truly impactful. Whether you’re a leader looking to amplify your message, or a seasoned speaker and podcast host looking to sharpen your edge or even a beginner who is wondering how to share their message, I mentor thought leaders through every step of having the conversation they’re here to have on this planet.

So, what message are you here to share?!

Resources:

Check out Episode #10 where I share why I started the show and the crazy path I took to get here.

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? Send Nick an email or schedule a time to discuss your podcast today!

[email protected]

Thank you for listening!

Please subscribe on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089

Watch Clips and highlights: www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA

Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Nick McGowan (00:00.942)

Hey, welcome to another episode of the Mindset and Self-Mastery Show. But this episode’s going to be a bit different, because things have changed. And it kind of makes sense that things change. It’s like an evolution in a sense. So over the past, by the time you hear this, maybe 75, 80 episodes that have come out.

I’ve learned a lot. I’ve had a lot of great conversations with some great people. We’ve gotten really deep, really deep. And we’ve helped people heal through their traumas and process through different things. There were many guests that had said, oh, I didn’t expect to get into that sort of conversation. And there were many comments and messages I’ve gotten from people that said thank you for having different people on the show or to talk about different things and really having deep, tough fucking conversations.

that a lot of people have a hard time talking about.

So the purpose to this show, the mindset and self mastery show is for us to be able to heal and be able to better manage our mindset and to be able to find our own sense and purpose within our self mastery. Self mastery is basically just discipline and being disciplined in different ways and not being restrictive. However, things have changed a bit. So going forward, it’s not just

Nick McGowan (01:25.264)

Guest episodes a lot of these are going to be solo episodes now some of you might hear that and go well fuck this I’m out of here I primarily do this because I want to hear the guests if that’s the case see ya enjoy your time away maybe pop back every so often when we have guests on the show for those of you that are like awesome I want to hear more of you great that’s what you’re gonna get there’s gonna be a lot more that I’m gonna get into because things have changed over the past several months

I’ve actually been thinking for the past maybe six months or so that something has to change with the podcast and didn’t exactly know what.

Nick McGowan (02:03.790)

how or even why. I just knew inside of me that there were things that needed to change. I also knew that there were things that needed to change within me personally. So I’m just gonna get the cat out of the bag here. Some big things have happened recently. I left corporate America. I’m an entrepreneur. So I’m just totally unemployable at this point. Even told the company I was with several of the…

C-suite people and directors that I had meetings with before I left. And even HR as I was leaving my exit interview, I told them, I’m totally unemployable at this point. Because as an entrepreneur, I’ve tried it. I’ve tried getting jobs. I tried having jobs. Held the job I was in, that I was just in last year. We had the best year we’ve ever had in that division. And when I did the math of how much we grew over the course of my, about five years there.

We grew close to 300% in just revenue and about 800% in clients. And that was all primarily from the one dude that was out doing the stuff. This guy. But I don’t say that to stroke my ego. I know that it was a fact.

But I wanted it to stroke my ego for the longest time because I felt like if I could have that love that came from those accolades and the feeling of building something, working for somebody else, but still building it sort of like a small business, then that would scratch the entrepreneurial itch. And I was fucking wrong. Totally fucking wrong. And when I left the company about

month and a half, two months ago at this point. I felt like it was the right move to make. I’ve been feeling that needed to happen for months though. And I trust my intuition and I trust my gut to move me and it didn’t tell me when I was going to actually leave. And some of that was really frustrating because I could feel like there was something needs to happen. Something needs to happen. At one point I was totally disrespected.

And it kind of just clicked in me. It was like yup. That’s it. That’s when we exit and From there started to make the trek to be able to get out But still didn’t fully know when I was supposed to leave and what that was supposed to look like and then one morning

Nick McGowan (04:27.182)

When I woke up, I think I went to the gym, got a shower, and while I was in the shower, I heard, today’s the day. This is when you’re leaving. I was like, oh, all right, well, I have a meeting with so and so and so and so. That would be a weird thing to bring it up at that point. But I got a call from my boss. Maybe two, three hours later, it was like, I feel like something’s not right and that you’re not feeling good right now. I was like, you’re totally right. Here are my two weeks. And that was that. In fact, I got about.

all the way through my week, my one week of the two weeks.

And they told me, you no longer need to be here. You’re totally good to go. And I realized at that point that I was dead to them. Like totally dead to them. It’s like, huh, interesting. I’d given them about five years. And I told them when I started that, yeah, I wanna be able to work with a company and not have to deal with all the craziness that I dealt with in my own company before that because honestly at that point, I was just fucked up. I was abused, I was bruised, I was beaten. I was just unsure what exactly to do next. But I knew.

when I made that decision five and a half years ago or whatever to leave my own company, that some of that came from the relationship I was in at the moment, trying to appease my wife at the time.

with stability and security because we were only taking what we needed for our own business, but it was also something that was for my own mental health. If you listen to episode 10, I get into some of that. In fact, that was the last solo episode that I’ve done, which is pretty interesting because there’s a whole lot more of these solo episodes coming up. Um, but when I left my own company, my mental health needed it. My overall health, my spiritual health, my physical health needed it. I was suicidal for months.

Figured I didn’t know how to get out of the company I built Didn’t know what to do didn’t know how to make anything better and felt it was probably just easier just to end it all And that’s not right And if you feel that way Please talk to somebody There’s definitely a way out of it. There are definitely things that can be done differently

So I remember leaving that company, spending a little bit of time, about two, three months to be able to get my shit together. I also, I created a reset program. It’s like hitting a reset button because that’s what I needed to do. I needed to hit the reset button and figure out what was actually happening, what was stopping me and what I want to do moving forward and how the future version of me does that. And then being able to put those things into place. I stepped into some of that when I jumped into the job that I was in and had a

with them.

but really only had about two years of like, go get them sort of attitude. Because what I do at times, and I know this is part of what my winning strategy is, is to be able to figure out the ways that I can be safe and I can be loved and I can be irreplaceable and I can figure things out. So getting into a, a job with a company, it’s like, well, we want to build up this division and we don’t have anybody to do it, so go ahead and go do it. I needed to figure all that out. I became irreplaceable.

And I became noteworthy in that sense and felt some sort of love or at least admiration for it But I didn’t get what I thought that I wanted. I thought I wanted accolades and I thought I wanted The money that came along with it but I remember when I left my company and three months later with the new company or the new job that I was working at I Tripled my income

But it didn’t fulfill me. It didn’t make me want to do anything outside of just, all right, here’s another project. I like projects. I like puzzles and problems and like to figure stuff out, but it wasn’t purposeful and didn’t really make me want to do anything different. So I sunk some time into that and about.

right around when COVID hit. I was having a hard time because I knew it’s not what I want to do. And I know I need to get out of this. I also needed to get out of a marriage that I was in. Again, listen to episode 10, cause this, a lot more of this is in there.

Nick McGowan (08:40.333)

But that was the start to what do I really want? What do I feel inside of me? What are the things that I’ve been pushing off that I should never push off ever again? And what are the stories I’ve been telling myself that has been holding me back from doing the things that feel right? And what are the things that I need to stop doing? So I went through the course of that year of 2020.

In 21, I got a divorce and in 22, I started the podcast and I sunk everything I could into all of that, into the podcast, into the company I was with and again, had the best year that we ever had and they gave me a little more than an attaboy. And we made the most money we’ve ever made in that division and I made more money than I made in the past 15 years.

And it didn’t do a fucking thing for me at all. Did make me feel better. Didn’t help me sleep better. It didn’t help me wake up and go, you know what? I can’t fucking wait to get into this day. Now as an entrepreneur or somebody who works at a job, not every single day that we wake up, we’re going to say today is an incredible day and I’m going to do these incredible things. And if that’s part of the affirmation bullshit that you feed yourself.

Nick McGowan (09:58.382)

ask yourself why and really dig into that because not every single day is going to be sunshine and rainbows.

but it’s how we manage our mindset and what we do with it throughout the day without dissociating from it and without bypassing the feelings. And I knew that, and I knew that I needed to actually feel these feelings. So when I left the company that I was with recently, back in March, I knew that it was the right call to make. I trusted my intuition, it led me to that. And I felt like this is the time to be able to go. As an entrepreneur, I started another company and I have my partner that I’m with.

We have our company that’s a purpose driven company. It’s literally the future of life purpose development. And what we’re doing is we’re really helping people work through their.

their processes of what they’ve gone through in life, the traumas that they’ve gone through, heal all of that and figure out what their purpose is in life. And we have an agency that goes along with it. So I’m actually taking a little bit of a step back into what I’d done years ago with digital marketing, web development, SEO, et cetera. But we’re doing things different and that starts with us. So if you follow me on social media, you’ll notice a lot less of me on social media, a whole lot less.

I’ve already started to deactivate some accounts because there’s so much fucking noise within social media and it’s not useful at this point and I know it’s sort of a joke but marketers fuck everything up. They fuck up all the new spaces that come out and all the social media and all of that and I’m just no longer going to be a part of that machine and this show will no longer be a part of that machine.

For those of you that want to hear more of the stories that I go through and more of the learning, growing and healing that I go through and the things that I feel are deeply important to be able to get out to people like yourself and people that are like you and I, then please stick around. Stay on board with me.

I’m not going to completely stop doing the guest appearances. I’m going to have guests on every so often, but I’m going to be very picky about the guests that come on. And it’s probably going to only be once a month that some guest is on. And we’re going to get into really deep topics. So I’ve learned a lot over the…

Nick McGowan (12:27.886)

75, 80 episodes or so and I’ve learned and seen a lot of different patterns and what a lot of people talk about and what a lot of people go through and we’re going to dive deeper in all of those things and if you feel like I’m making a bad decision, all right, others have before. If you feel like I’m making a great decision, all right, others have before. None of it really matters to me. I really don’t care.

because I feel like this is the thing that I need to do. I would really appreciate you sticking around. I would love for you to be able to learn from what I bring to the table and from all the experiences that I have and all the experiences of the people that do come onto this show. But if you feel like this is your time to be able to step off, then I appreciate you spending the time that you did. If you feel like this is the time for you to lean in with me, then please do.

And like I said, you’re not gonna see me on social media, but you will be able to reach me, nick, at nickmcgowan.com. And if you have questions about anything that I’m doing with the show, suggestions, or anything about being able to lean deeper into your purpose and what you feel you’re called to do in life, then please send me a message. But this is mainly an update episode. That’s what this really is. This is just an update of, hey, a lot of things have changed.

no longer in corporate America. I’ve dug deeper into what my purpose is. I’m fully back into entrepreneurism. Actually moved as well. My partner and I live clear across the country from where I was before and…

Really absolutely loving everything that’s happening right now. This season for me is for me to actually pull off the fucking bandage, talk about the things that are truly important, the things that I feel called to talk about, and the things that I feel are my purpose to be able to talk about and to do. And again, I appreciate you being with me for the time that you have. And if you feel this is your time to no longer listen, have at it. If you feel it’s time to listen and…

dive in, then please do. And if you feel called to be able to send me a message about it, great. If you wanna send me hate mail, I guess you can. I’m just not gonna fucking answer it or get back to you on it. But if it makes you feel good and you can sleep at night, then fucking have at it. Realistically though, and from the bottom of my heart, I really do appreciate you being with me on this journey. And I…

I’m really excited about the things that are happening from this point on. So stay tuned. There’s a lot more that’s going to happen. There’s a lot more depth that I’m going to get into on this show with myself and with the guests. And I really appreciate you spending the time with me. Thank you.

In this episode, Nick speaks with Dawn Dimicco, the founder of Epic Redemption Coaching. She’s also a devout catholic who came out as gay and discusses how her religious beliefs comingle with her sexual orientation.

What to listen for:

“I’m an open book I share so much of my life so people that are new to me what they probably don’t know or see as much of anymore is a lot of my faith I am I’m a catholic lesbian and am out. I guess you’d say now I’m out and proud”

“I got baptized in a hot tub, you know? Did all the things, and I know that for me a lot of it was like being gay is wrong, you’re not supposed to be gay”

“There were a lot of tears I knew when I stopped trying to pry away my feelings”

About Dawn DiMicco

Dawn DiMicco is the founder of Epic Redemption Coaching. She has utilized her experiences as a mental performance coach, dual-sport collegiate athlete, military spouse, and business owner to help her clients gain the confidence, courage, and mental toughness they need in order to live the life they were meant to.

Resources:

Check out Episode #34 about “Being True To Who You Are Wherever You Are”

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? Send Nick an email or schedule a time to discuss your podcast today!

[email protected]

Thank you for listening!

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Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Hello and welcome to the Mindset and self-mastery show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan, and today on the show we have Dawn

Dawn Dimicco (00:05.120)
I’m good how are you

Nick McGowan(00:30.059)
so there’s a lot that we’re going to get into but hey let’s just start this off don want you tell us what you do for living and what’s one thing that most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little outer bizarre

Dawn Dimicco (00:39.960)
okay so i do coaching i currently have a fitness and nutrition coaching business and am transitioning to work with personal trainers and nutrition coaches and teaching them how to take their business online how to start it how to grow it as far as i was telling you like I’m an open book i share so much of my life people that are new to me what they probably don’t know or see as much of any more is a lot of my faith i am I’m a catholic lesbian and am out i guess you’d say now I’m out and proud i don’t know i don’t know

that that goes I’m new to the game i guess but i mean that’s definitely that’s that’s different for a lot of people a lot of people that follow my social media for years very very faith based and i’ve gotten away from a lot of the faith based social media more business purposes my faith is still hugely important but yeah that that throws people sometimes

Nick McGowan(01:12.499)
yah

Nick McGowan(01:17.139)
yeah

Nick McGowan(01:31.019)
sure that can throw people and i think it should throw people in a good way because faith isn’t tied to sexuality and i think your faith has to be important if your faith is important to you there’s certain people that they just don’t have faith at all and i don’t really know how they go through life but that’s a whole different story so with you being a les being catholic and now you’re saying you’ve actually stepped back a little bit from talking about your faith in your social media why is that

Dawn Dimicco (01:43.380)
yeah

Dawn Dimicco (01:57.100)
h a lot of it was a lot of my target market in my business i was working with a lot of faith based women and a lot of it was starting to feel a little bit less authentic and so i kind of pulled back from know really there was everything i posted had that faith connotation tied into it and so a lot of that was just how i moved through social media my faith didn’t change it was still who i was it wasn’t it just wasn’t everything that i put out there initially it was everything that was out there

Nick McGowan(02:04.459)
okay

Nick McGowan(02:09.759)
m

Dawn Dimicco (02:27.180)
um so now my faith comes through in how i speak how i do things you know when I’m in alignment when i am living fully and authentically my my faith will come out it’s shaped how i think and who i am so while it’s not it’s not necesarily in your face but it’s it’s important

Nick McGowan(02:27.239)
yeah

Nick McGowan(02:32.699)
yeah

Nick McGowan(02:41.699)
do you think

Nick McGowan(02:44.159)
yeah yeah that’s a good good point do you think it was one of those things where that kind of held you back a little bit from coming out

Dawn Dimicco (02:53.360)
absolutely but not necessarily the catholic faith i grew up with a really strong faith i attended church wasn’t anything that my family necessarily did as a family wasn’t anything they pushed on me it was really something that i had sought out and when i went to college i had been away from church for a long time after i had married i started going back and really digging into faith at that point i got connected to a lot of women’s groups did a lot of bible study when you know part of the non denominant non denominational church

Nick McGowan(02:55.259)
m

Dawn Dimicco (03:23.320)
i got baptized in a hot tub you know did all the things and i know that for me a lot of it was yeah like being gay is wrong you’re not supposed to be gay it’s okay to have those feelings but you can’t act on them i was one of those people that that justified it you know i was a duel sport college athlete i mean i couldn’t tell you how many women i played sports with that are now out or were coming out at the time and i just remember year

Nick McGowan(03:25.559)
yeah

Nick McGowan(03:49.339)
yeah

Dawn Dimicco (03:53.320)
ago i was at a field hockey camp with a couple of friends and we were sitting in the door room and we had this whole conversation and i remember saying that you know we were talking you know whether you’re born gay or not and i just remember saying you know i don’t know if you’re born that way or not but we can always choose how we act well yeah that that crab comes back to biting in the ass right i was like oh man and i remember sitting there very distinctly with these two women and we were talking through this and you know the one

Dawn Dimicco (04:23.300)
and it’s like no it’s just wrong and that woman is out she’s married to a woman she’s got two kids you know the other woman who was very supported very understanding it’s like you two are wrong is you know completely straight has a family beautiful family beautiful kids um and i think a lot of it was just we didn’t know what to do with it at the time you know because we lived in in that time and place where we there wasn’t an option i mean i guess there’s there’s an option but it didn’t feel like it

Nick McGowan(04:54.039)
sure what a spot for somebody to go no no no that’s totally wrong but at the same time i feel people do this a lot where they’re like no you shouldn’t do this thing or they like it complain about something and that’s really the thing that they’re arguing about in themselves you know

Dawn Dimicco (05:01.780)
yeah

Dawn Dimicco (05:07.440)
right yeah and that’s where i mean clearly that’s where she was at and then for me i was trying to justify it because i didn’t know it at the time i mean I’m sure there’s some inklings but it wasn’t an option it wasn’t something that i was i was going to pursue it didn’t matter so to me i justified it like hey that’s cool you know you can have these feelings you can have these urges just because you have them doesn’t mean you follow them just because they’re the doesn’t make them right and that’s what i really really believed at the time and yeah that conversation

Nick McGowan(05:19.119)
sure

Dawn Dimicco (05:37.320)
hers still hurts to this day and all the thinking about how many people i shared that view with very openly very out loud you know I’m a middle class white conservative catholic girl i shoot i mean talk about all my friends now they’re like wait you’re you’re conservative yeah they’re ike but you’re gay I’m like again they don’t they don’t come together and so for me it was just

Nick McGowan(05:40.099)
what hurts about it

Dawn Dimicco (06:08.320)
i wonder who who have i said those words to that i heard you know you look a look at paul look scripturally you know how many people did he persecute before he saw the light like literally you know but and so for me it was like how many people did i hurt with my words with my thoughts who didn’t i embrace the way i should have you know i was always the you know hate the sin and love the sinner but like who says who said when you say crap like that like you’re not really

Nick McGowan(06:12.779)
yeah

Nick McGowan(06:18.459)
yeah yeah

Nick McGowan(06:28.559)
yeah

Dawn Dimicco (06:37.180)
living in love with that person right it’s like that’s not how it goes you know you’re you’re judging and i look now at all the all the people that i’ve gone to church with over the years and I’m like man i know their deep dark stuff and you know me loving a woman doesn’t hold a candle with some of the things that i know about so I’m like oh yeah

Nick McGowan(06:37.819)
slap yeah

Nick McGowan(06:43.039)
yeah

Nick McGowan(06:56.259)
m

Nick McGowan(06:58.899)
yeah it makes me think of the they’re just hypocrites no matter what and it makes me sad to think about how hypocritical people are and how you and i have both been hypocrites at times because we’re just unsure of what the fuck is going on in ourselves let alone stuff outside of us but we see those things that come inside of us and go oh wait a minute this isn’t right what the fuck do i do with it i don’t know but I’m told it’s not right but what do you do with it fun just yell at them or say something weird

Dawn Dimicco (07:03.600)
right

Dawn Dimicco (07:10.560)
hm

Dawn Dimicco (07:28.240)
yeah

Nick McGowan(07:28.259)
that doesn’t do you any good but that’s a good point bringing up paul even because i’ve thought about that before he killed tons and tons and tons of christians and then spun imagine that whole community being like you’re what he’s going to kill us all you’re what and that shift i could only imagine what that would have had to look like for him to give grace to himself to be able to go all right god you’re calling me to do this and i believe but how am i supposed to

Dawn Dimicco (07:37.460)
yeah

Dawn Dimicco (07:41.440)
yeah

Dawn Dimicco (07:46.320)
yeah

Dawn Dimicco (07:52.860)
right

Nick McGowan(07:58.719)
go through life after i’ve done all of this that must have been so difficult on him and now literally you and i are having this conversation where you’ve gone through some of that so have you have you forgiven yourself and have you shown grace to yourself for that

Dawn Dimicco (08:06.720)
right

Dawn Dimicco (08:13.780)
yes to myself i still wonder and you know until we started talking which is cool where these go no i didn’t really think about all the people that i could have been herding along the way you know i worked in youth ministry for a short time when i lived in virginia you know what was my message to young you know teen agers that might have been struggling with this you know i was i was giving the party line right like i was reading the talking points i was that that person out thereon

Nick McGowan(08:20.839)
yeah

Nick McGowan(08:23.839)
yeah

Nick McGowan(08:35.259)
yeah

Nick McGowan(08:40.799)
yeah

Dawn Dimicco (08:43.520)
i did my job really well and that’s kind of scary

Nick McGowan(08:45.859)
m well lot of people um they’re good at doing a job and not good at understanding why they’re doing the job and why the thing matters to them and when you think about just having a deep purpose inside of you to be able to do that stuff a lot of people don’t get to that point so when you think about how you got to that point almost like the breaking point of being like all right fucking something s got to give what did that moment look like for you to go all right i need to shift this i need to chang

Dawn Dimicco (09:11.480)
it’s got to give

Nick McGowan(09:15.659)
it and start to step away from the old and into the new u

Dawn Dimicco (09:20.560)
i mean there was a lot of tears i knew when i stopped trying to pry away my feelings i mean we’re talking prayed away right you know for it had been a couple of years that i knew that i knew for sure and you know when when i didn’t want to pray it away anymore when i didn’t want to pray away the feelings i was having for somebody then i knew i knew that i couldn’t any more when i was i was still attending church regularly

Nick McGowan(09:28.559)
m

Nick McGowan(09:48.319)
yeah

Dawn Dimicco (09:50.780)
that that was the point in time i actually stopped taking communion at church and part of the reason is you know in the catholic church you’re you know supposed to go through confession before you take communion righ you’re sposed to clean your be absolved of your sins clean your soul especially of that and but i also believe that you’re not fully absolved if your heart is not there and you don’t want to be and because i knew i didn’t want to be absolved I’m like I’m not going to go through the motion

Nick McGowan(09:55.659)
m

Nick McGowan(10:07.819)
yeah

Nick McGowan(10:16.899)
yeah

Dawn Dimicco (10:20.540)
because I’m not I’m not clean i didn’t feel clean at that point i was struggling with that a lot and you know fortunately i came to the catholic church late in life and i fell in love I’m still in love with so much of what the church teaches not how the people screw it up people screw things up so badly I’m still in love with so much of the history and the tradition and for me it was also though being reminded a lot of people think that catholics don’t have a relationship with christ

Nick McGowan(10:38.759)
m

Dawn Dimicco (10:50.320)
i think the catholics don’t have this relationship it’s all this like outside rules and stuff but we do and my faith grew so much through my my conversion process into the catholic church and for me it was going back to and remembering like yes this is what I’m taught but we’re also supposed to be interpreting what we read we’re supposed to be when you’re in that relationship when you are actually opening yourself and listening to what god has for you and

Nick McGowan(10:50.939)
hm

Nick McGowan(11:12.139)
yeah

Dawn Dimicco (11:20.400)
he’s telling you that’s where i found peace when i finally accepted where i was and i felt peace that’s when i knew that it was okay and that’s when i knew like god didn’t make a mistake like i fought it now do i think that everybody that has this in claims don’t even want to talk about what’s going on in the world today um with this indoctrination of children and all of that but for me like i know this is who i am I’m very igh

Nick McGowan(11:20.799)
hm

Nick McGowan(11:36.099)
yeah

Dawn Dimicco (11:50.380)
believe very strongly in that and again because i had that relationship with christ and i did the work and i know that there’s there’s no more fighting it and when i stopped fighting it i felt peace about it and it’s the only way i can explain it

Nick McGowan(11:56.379)
yeah

Nick McGowan(12:02.439)
what a beautiful thing yeah well that’s pure surrender at that point and i know when people hear the word surrender that right off the bat they can think well i don’t want to just give up i don’t want to just give in but that is absolutely not the case so what is your take on that

Dawn Dimicco (12:16.940)
right

Dawn Dimicco (12:19.280)
i mean it was really i mean i had to follow i mean

Dawn Dimicco (12:24.580)
i know I’m gonna have a lot of people listen to his the’regon be like this is blasphemy but like this is god’s will it’s god’s will for my life right now right i have to follow what his will is until i stepped into that i wasn’t living fully and if I’m not living fully how can i use the gifts and the talents that he’s given me they’re not being used fully if I’m not living fully and i had to give that piece up in order to you know receive all of his graces and then be able to share all of his gifts and so

Nick McGowan(12:28.959)
preach

Nick McGowan(12:31.799)
yeah

Nick McGowan(12:42.659)
yeah

Dawn Dimicco (12:54.460)
yeah yeah and it definitely is definitely not easy but you know once i mean I’m coming out in a time when it’s it’s more accepted but i don’t think it’s any less scary

Nick McGowan(12:54.619)
not an easy thing to do

Nick McGowan(12:59.699)
m m

Nick McGowan(13:07.199)
sure

Nick McGowan(13:10.359)
oh i could only imagine I’m not gay and i haven’t come out in that sort of way so i could only imagine what that’s like for you but i can also understand yeah there’s a little bit more of an acceptance in some ways but not fully you know but no matter what we as people have things that we just continue to push down deeper and deeper and deeper and yeah i haven’t come out of the closet to say that I’m gay that’s not my thing but they have been massive

Dawn Dimicco (13:25.860)
hm

Nick McGowan(13:40.139)
ways that i’ve abandoned myself and i’ve shoved all that stuff to the bottom and it takes a lot of work to be able to tread it back up and be able to figure out what the fuck do i do with the ship and why the fuck did i do it that way before and again grace with yourself to be able to actually go through it but you touched on reading and going through the bible you have that relationship with god there are times and I’m sure you’ve had this too you read through something like all right whatever you just buy pass it you might read it six months or a year or years later and you go oh my god and the things like

Dawn Dimicco (13:51.400)
right

Dawn Dimicco (13:56.740)
yeah

Dawn Dimicco (13:59.740)
hm

Dawn Dimicco (14:08.740)
hm

Nick McGowan(14:10.259)
d popping out directly in your face and god’s like get the king point and you’re like all right dude i got it

Dawn Dimicco (14:11.280)
yeah it’s right in your face

Dawn Dimicco (14:16.060)
yeah everything everything just kept pointing in the same direction is like okay i think it’s time and it was it was crazy i had you know i had so much support i mean people that have known me they’ve known my whole life i was the one in denial for all the years i mean when it was finally shared on social media you know probably there were probably about three hundred comments like eight hundred loves you know all of that and probably two hundred of the three hundred comments were like

Nick McGowan(14:21.439)
yeah that

Nick McGowan(14:31.359)
m

Nick McGowan(14:42.759)
m

Dawn Dimicco (14:45.840)
we’ve been waiting thirty years for this or like you know i knew it I’m so happy right like all of this but i did you know because I’m so i was so faith based and most of my relationships came through friendships through church not everybody was super supportive of it but and i remember having conversations with friends that were like well you know screw them how dare they say anything to you and but the thing is the women that did you know i had two in particular that

Dawn Dimicco (15:15.980)
reached out to me and you know they’re like look like I’m not down with this you know and we talked about it and the fact that they had the courage to reach out and still share that and and for me i appreciated that because to me that’s that’s love like for them to reach out to me that’s them showing love and i have all these friends at just don’t understand and I’m like look this is what they believe they believe with all their heart that this is a sin

Nick McGowan(15:23.099)
hm

Nick McGowan(15:32.679)
sure

Nick McGowan(15:35.339)
yeah

Dawn Dimicco (15:45.820)
this is going to separate me from god and this is going to keep me from heaven and for them like to them i just cut myself off from god whether whether that’s the case or not that’s what they believe and so they’re trying to save me and they’re not doing they didn’t do it in a terrible way they’re like look i can’t support this I’m not going to say anything on your page i love ha you’re geting love and support i love you I’m always there for you but you know if you ever want to talk about this have a discussion about it you know I’m here and it was

Nick McGowan(15:56.299)
hm

Dawn Dimicco (16:15.900)
two separate calls that i had gotten that were very similar and they re the two that i expected it from and but it was it was powerful and i tried to explain it to people like if if you see that somebody’s sick right somebody’s diet and you have the answer you have the antidote like you have what’s going to cure them and you don’t share it with them you’re an ass hole right like how can you say you love somebody you’re not going to but this is what they believe whether you know i believe it’s a little misguided

Nick McGowan(16:21.979)
okay

Nick McGowan(16:38.779)
yeah straight up

Dawn Dimicco (16:46.500)
right now that’s just where I’m at but these are two women who whose husbands are both pastors who they’ve gone through you know theological studies themselves like they know their stuff as well and it’s what they believe and I’m not going to take that away from them Iappreciate that i respect them so much more for sharing that with me than just giving me this false oh yeah congratulations I’m so happy for you

Nick McGowan(17:10.759)
yeah what a beautiful real life moment to be able to have those conversations it’s also hyper interesting to understand that people believe such a thing and somebody else that they can say i love they believe something different and you both individually believe the thing that you believe with all of your heart it makes me think of just religion in itself in the fucking system that it is you get pumped in just like almost a school system like the education system you’re pumped in to

Nick McGowan(17:40.719)
out to be a factory worker and that’s how it is but you have to break out of that to look at things different and i feel look some of my audiences they know this or they’ve heard me talk about it before I’m christian i’ve gone through churches i played in worship bands for ten plus years loved every bit of playing in the church band for the most part i didn’t really get the lack of authenticity and the understanding that for the most part everybody said you know we’ve got we we love all and we love all like yeah

Nick McGowan(18:10.639)
cool well how about how about we talk about drug addiction or porn addictions or people that have done some crazy ship in the past and how can you how can you not love on those people and help those people through that and a lot of there’s like almost that coolly that’s drunk in a sense of like no no no no well we were told this is it like i get what you were fucking told but what do you actually believe and i still think a lot of people have a hard time understanding what they actually believe because they’re not able to go through themselves to do it so how did you do

Nick McGowan(18:40.579)
that how did you get to your own belief to be able to do it

Dawn Dimicco (18:44.680)
i mean i think the biggest piece for me was finding that peace and you know that i did have such a strong love for and i spent so much time in the world i wasn’t spending all the time in the world for that reason i just didn’t realize that that’s what all that time was preparing me for and that’s where it ultimately got me and i had friends at the time you know when i was coming out there like well how can how can you still love your church how can you still want to be part of that and i was like well one it’s some

Dawn Dimicco (19:14.460)
the stupid people that’s not all of the people right it’s the people in my opinion that get get it wrong but you know at the time i was finessing nutrition coach and I’m like look just because you screwed up one meal you don’t throw it all in right like just because you ate the one bad thing doesn’t mean you don’t continue on your path to do better like I’m still going to work on every other area of my life I’m still going to you know follow jesus teaching now we can get into whether or not that you know i mean scripture is clear

Dawn Dimicco (19:44.480)
cripture’s like yeah now you don’t do this but there’s a lot of other scripture that depending on how you’re reading it and how you put it into context and we can talk you know that all day you know there’s there’s theories and beliefs like look i see what the government does out there do i believe that the bible that we have in our hands today was not corrupted by government at some point in time i mean i don’t know I’m not

Nick McGowan(20:07.759)
that’s where I’m going with this like as you’re talking about it I’m like look i get it and i read the bible every day i make sure that i read at least a verse to day and i understand that i can i can read the words and go right god what’s the message what’s the thing you want me to get and sometimes it’s just like i got another for you right now move along other times it’s like this thing specifically but the bible has been messed with it is one of those things where at some point it might come out we might not ever know but there’s definitely conversations about what happened back in what the six

Nick McGowan(20:37.139)
tenth century where vatican was like yeah yeah we get this we’re going to omit a bunch of books we’re going to admit a lot of things and we’re going to change things and that’s where i think people can attack the faith of it not even just religion but they go but yeah it was written by men and then edited and manipulated by man were just humans in general like yeah totally but i believe god speaks to us in different ways and shows us different things like you were seeing the different signs like think about how many times you’ve watched a movie or commercial

Nick McGowan(21:07.119)
comes on and something is said you’re like what and it’s almost like he’s talking directly to you and you’re like oh ship and it was a burger king commercial or something stupid you know what i mane you’re like what the fun is that about

Dawn Dimicco (21:15.480)
yeah

Dawn Dimicco (21:18.320)
absolutely well and even in scripture alone like you know you read one thing you’re like sweet i mean and you can take any piece of scripture and twist and manipulate it you know you can and you know that’s one of the things that i really did love about transitioning to the catholic church i’ve been to so many non denominational churches for so long and I’m like i mean to me a lot of those pastors are pompous arrogant asses that just want to listen to themselves they want to build a mega church and why are they building a mega church to bring

Dawn Dimicco (21:48.120)
fame to themselves right to be seen not because of the message that they want to share and I’m like you know i sit through this forty five minutes i don’t even no i guess it’s a sermon I’m like you shared one verse of scripture that you didn’t support with any other verse of scripture and i mean i remember going to a church when it’s when i was done i went it was it was palm sunday now i get it non denomination a churches they are bible believing bible following whatever it was pam

Dawn Dimicco (22:18.160)
sunday and the series that we were in we did not talk about the significance of palm sunday there were no palms i get you don’t have to have palms but i was like wait a second palm sunday is in the bible like that is a real like thing that happened like the laying of palms like this is actually very significant this is one of the most significant you know of course as we were coming up on easter and i remember that service so very clearly um in the i don’t even remember what the series was but they played a clip from despicable me

Dawn Dimicco (22:48.400)
and then they did this whole sermon off of this clip from despicable me and i was like yeah man like i can’t i can’t do this like at least in you know as much as as people like to think that catholics don’t know their bible a lot of them don’t know that they know their bible because there is so much scripture through out a catholic mass but it’s being read to you and you’ve got your you know you’ve got your missalet that you’re following so you don’t realize how much scripture you get

Nick McGowan(22:54.439)
yeah

Nick McGowan(23:13.059)
yeah

Dawn Dimicco (23:18.440)
throughout the service you hear the entire bible over the course of the year

Nick McGowan(23:21.879)
yeah yeah well it’s interesting because things can be given to you in so many different ways not going to do something that i don’t do on this show at all i never like to look at my phone at all but i felt as you’re talking about this I’m like all right what’s the verse of the day like i don’t know god just let me let me do this thing right you know but there are times ere it’s like all right so the bible ap greg rochelle made years and years ago there’s a daily verse that comes up and i read it basically every day maybe every other day like i said i have have

Dawn Dimicco (23:29.720)
okay sweet

Dawn Dimicco (23:32.600)
okay

Dawn Dimicco (23:37.520)
all right do it let’s hear it

Dawn Dimicco (23:41.300)
uh yep

Nick McGowan(23:51.739)
batch of books that i read every day and the bible being one of them jesus co is another one and there’s just stuff that i go through but i also have a rule of three that i subscribe to that i believe the holy spirit my intuition leads me if something comes up three times i have to do something with it so it’s come up three times while I’m sitting here with you mike fine i’ll pick up my fucking phone i’ll look at it so the verse is john then jesus turned to the jews who had claimed to believe in him quote if you stick with this living out what i tell you you’re my disciples

Nick McGowan(24:21.699)
sure then you will experience for yourselves the truth and the truth will for you

Dawn Dimicco (24:26.800)
m all right that’s kind of powerful

Nick McGowan(24:29.979)
that’s exactly what we’re talking about here like this is about it’s not about religion it’s not about what anybody else says or what anybody else believes it’s what you and your relationship with your creator says and with that that truth will set you free and that’s not a biblical thing in the sense of like oh well you know whatever all this stuff says i just need to follow it’s how you interpret what you do with it which just ties into this again i’ve never never read of

Dawn Dimicco (24:31.740)
yeah

Dawn Dimicco (24:34.800)
no

Nick McGowan(24:59.999)
a verse a scripture here on a podcast but this is pretty fitting and that is extra fitting like that just ties in

Dawn Dimicco (25:05.480)
that’s well and and how can you have self mastery if you don’t live your truth like if you don’t have truth well and it’s funny because since i’ve come out you know where you would think i would want to dig into scripture more to support my beliefs right i didn’t you know i talked to a good friend who has done the digging and done the research and you know she told me she’s like if you ever need the research you know you need to have those biblical conversation like i can have any biblical come

Nick McGowan(25:11.199)
yeah yeah one hundred percent

Nick McGowan(25:22.179)
hm

Dawn Dimicco (25:35.300)
station i want with anybody who knows more bible than me because it’s not about it’s not about just the words like anybody of faith knows that the bible is a living and breathing thing right it’s alive and so what it’s saying to me and what it’s saying to you and without looking i don’t does jesus even ever talk about sexuality I’m trying to think

Nick McGowan(25:41.899)
yeah

Nick McGowan(25:59.239)
i don’t believe he does but on that note think about how many times people will throw it at you and go cool so that was old testament right so from that perspective we’re not even talking new testament where jesus came and was like the reason why I’m here is because you didn’t get it my dad had to send a human so that you’re fucking get it and now he’s going to kill me so that you really get it that’s the way that i look at that

Dawn Dimicco (26:19.560)
yeah now and i could be totally wrong and I’m sure that we’re going to get people pissed off at you and pissed off at me but m and well and i always and i always just throw it back to like leviticus I’m like dude like i wear cotton like every day right like wasn’t it cotton you’re not supposed to wear because it’s unclean or whatever i mean yeah so like yeah there’s there’s some things that yes you have to take it in context and and i don’t want to be mistaken for saying that we need to change the bible to fit today

Nick McGowan(26:26.639)
hello and welcome

Nick McGowan(26:37.059)
sure yeah i also had bacon it was delicious

Dawn Dimicco (26:49.400)
times right like i don’t believe it’s in context with like today society but we need to look at it in context of the society that was in again like that’s why jesus came

Nick McGowan(26:50.219)
at all yeah

Nick McGowan(26:58.459)
yeah a good call so i’d mentioned a couple minutes ago that i had a stack of books that i read through one of them is jesus c o and the beginning of that book the author writes that she saw in a dream she just dreaming and just imagined seeing like a white light or whatever you know but you can tell there’s a person walking towards you and then the person walked up and had like a t shirt and blue jeans on then she realized it was jesus and was like what why are you wearing jeans he’s like well they wore robes and ship so that’s what i wore then but you wear jean so that’s what i wear now

Nick McGowan(27:28.459)
that’s what this looks like so it’s fitting the context of jesus in the way that our faith is but it’s not changing out how things are but i think context is a key that a lot of people forget but they’re like yeah well in the bible it states this like yeah but the bible was thousands of years ago the world looked drastically different they didn’t have the internet like we have yeah

Dawn Dimicco (27:47.980)
right well and a lot of those rules yeah and a lot of those rules were for health and safety reasons

Nick McGowan(27:54.399)
yeah yeah yeah well what about the amount of alcohol that they drank the wine they drank and people are like you shouldn’t drink wine like all right so first thing that jesus did was the whole wine thing and it was the best wine that they’ve ever had

Dawn Dimicco (28:05.660)
i was like yeah his first miracle like this is what he did first after he yeah well yeah that’s what Jesus did first. God created the world and then Jesus was like hey I’m just gonna turn turn water into wine he’s like i don’t have a lot of time left here let’s let’s kick this up a notch

Nick McGowan(28:14.899)
that was the main thing first in his thirties a time of party folks

Nick McGowan(28:25.559)
it’s funny have you seen the show the chosen

Dawn Dimicco (28:28.360)
you know i have not got i haven’t gotten into it i want to i need to i just have not

Nick McGowan(28:31.939)
well it’s awesome and it’s really really well done and it’s mainly about the story of the disciples around jesus but even when his mom mary was like hey they’re running out of wine can you do this he’s like my time is not now she’s like i get it but you know party wine he’s like all right so it’s cool to even see some of that and then how they all interacted with it but yeah you’re totally right there is health and safety in certain way is like the reason why they drank a lot of wine because the water was bad they couldn’t really drink water so they drank wine and it

Nick McGowan(29:01.899)
wine like what we’re used to probably more of a meat or something like that but even in that sort of sense like we have to put context of the things that matter for us and with you being able to go through the space that you’re in i mean what a what a crazy journey in a sense for you to be able to go through all this and be as up beat and excited about everything you are but to me it seems like it makes more sense now because you don’t have to hide you don’t have to hide the bullshit so if you could look back at yourself from years ago what would you have

Nick McGowan(29:31.719)
hold yourself in a nice loving or as fucking direct as you want to be i mean you’re in to be direct if you want you know but go for it

Dawn Dimicco (29:34.440)
in a nice loving way

Dawn Dimicco (29:38.160)
yeah i mean it’s it’s hard to listen to and find yourself when you’re trying to follow society’s rules family rules you know traditions history you know all of that i think it’s really listening to who you are a little bit more and not being afraid to be you and i mean that it’s super simple to say obviously it’s so darn hard to do and it’s and i think i would have ben a lot more intense

Dawn Dimicco (30:08.040)
with the people i surrounded myself with while i happen to be surrounded by great people i was an athlete so i was around a lot of like minded people but the older i’ve gotten you know the more personal development i do the more i grow it’s having the right people around me you know that right wise council that people i don’t always listen to but i need to listen to what they have to say i kind of digest it um but yeah really like thinking for yourself taking what people have to say thinking for yourself

Dawn Dimicco (30:37.920)
and you know not being afraid to be you and actually and actually coming to yourself i went too many years where you know i was starting to come into myself and then i vanished for like twenty years and I’m trying to find find me again through all this and the first step was just being true to me

Nick McGowan(30:58.419)
yeah and by you stepping out and doing that even with the dormant years there’s still stuff that was processing through but now you’re inspiring other people to do that so if you could boil all that down to one piece of advice for people on their path towards self mastery what would that be

Dawn Dimicco (31:04.220)
yeah

Dawn Dimicco (31:08.640)
right

Dawn Dimicco (31:15.620)
it’s really finding ways to be an alignment and alignment has been my my big word this year because now I’m finally in alignment with who i am i in a podcast earlier today it was funny i was talking about um an ex girl friend and she was going through my you know when you first meet somebody and you’re going through social media you got a scroll and keep scrolling and she came back and she goes please never wear address again and i was like why she goes you look

utiful but you look so uncomfortable right because i was trying to i was trying to live in this other box i was trying to be what other people thought i was supposed to be instead of like now forget like I’m in a sports brim in a teacher I’m comfortable and when I’m comfortable on me and and so i think it’s really just not being again not being afraid to be you m you know don’t wear the dress can we make that the line don’t don’t wear the dress don’t wear the dress i mean

Nick McGowan(31:48.099)
uh uh

Nick McGowan(31:55.779)
yeah

Nick McGowan(32:02.559)
m

Nick McGowan(32:10.559)
well noted i won’t yeah i don’t wear the dress that’s good

Dawn Dimicco (32:16.060)
i mean that and i think that’s that’s just you know something that i’ve just been thinking a lot about is I’m at my best when I’m comfortable and doesn’t enyougtabe a slob I’m usually a slob um but but it’s got to be comfortable and s got to be authentic when i was in address i wasn’t authentically me and to be in alignment you have you know your words your thoughts your actions need to come together and my thoughts words and actions were not aligned for too many years you know there were pieces

Nick McGowan(32:32.079)
yeah

Nick McGowan(32:44.559)
yeah

Dawn Dimicco (32:45.420)
i’d say some good things but then do the bad things or they just didn’t all come together

Nick McGowan(32:49.059)
m

Nick McGowan(32:51.859)
what a great way to put that and i like the comfort that you’re talking about and obviously there’s a balance where you want to be uncomfortable but comfortable but you need to be able to be comfortable with who you are to them be uncomfortable with the other things as you continue to grow don’t you’re awesome thank you for being on the show it’s been a pleasure having you here i always love when we get the chat about stuff tell the audience where can they find you and where can they connect with you

Dawn Dimicco (33:00.260)
hm

Dawn Dimicco (33:02.680)
right

Dawn Dimicco (33:07.960)
well thank you

Dawn Dimicco (33:16.800)
I’m old but i like i love facebook I’m still on facebook all the time just at dawn de mico you can find me I’m the only dan demico there same thing on instagram linked in easiest ways to get in touch would love to chat with whoever about this or anything else you want to talk about

Nick McGowan(33:32.879)
good stuff you all that stuff is going to be in the show notes again dan it’s been a pleasure to have you on i appreciate your time today

Dawn Dimicco (33:38.320)
thank you