You may not know who he is - but you should. Under Donald Trump Ron DeSantis rode the MAGA wave to to the governor job in Florida.

For some, he's a "smart Trump". For others, a "troll" who, with a series of eye-catching stunts and pronouncements, has dominated headlines and is now viewed as a serious contender for the Republican nomination in 2024.

From transporting migrants to the millionaires' playground of Martha's Vineyard to taking on Disney over so-called "Don't Say Gay" legislation, this is a politician who has weaponised the culture wars to enormous effect.

For liberals, he's a cruel, socially awkward bogeyman, to his supporters, a resolute strongman turning the tide against corrosive wokeism.

James Naughtie profiles the man who, if he does turn his eye to The White House, may have to take the gloves off with the man who many say made him - Donald Trump.

The programme features Fernanda Santos of Futuro Media, Mike Binder of the University of North Florida Public Opinion Research Lab and Rick Wilson, founder of The Lincoln Project.

Presented by James Naughtie.