Sarah Edmondson and Anthony “Nippy” Ames are former members of the NXIVM cult but today are some of the most visible whistleblowers of the cult. They host the popular podcast “A Little Bit Culty,” and Sarah is the author of “Scarred: The True Story of How I Escaped NXIVM, the Cult That Bound My Life.” In this wide-ranging conversation, we talk about NXIVM and the attributes we also find in other cults. We talk about human trafficking (what NXIVM cult leader Keith Raniere was convicted of) and how intelligent, educated people can fall victim to a cult leader.

Learn more about Dr. Steven Hassan's work and find more resources at his website FreedomOfMind.com.

Follow Dr. Hassan on Twitter here.

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