The Official Navy SEAL and SWCC Podcast

Learn more about how we choose the best of the best.
This summer was marked by changes in the preliminary selection program. Tune in to find out more.

SEALs at “The Yard” tell us the ins and outs of how midshipmen earn their chance to attend SEAL Officer Assessment and Selection. First stop: the challenging Naval Academy Screener. Get ready to pull an all-nighter…

How to train and apply to become a Navy SEAL or SWCC: https://www.sealswcc.com

We spoke with a Navy SEAL about his experience as a close combat instructor and career in professional mixed martial arts. Spoiler: both occupations have something to learn from each other.

NSW

How to train and apply to become a Navy SEAL or SWCC: https://www.sealswcc.com

A SWCC master chief explains how he rose from the ranks of a regular seaman to earn the pin that defined his exciting life in Naval Special Warfare.

#NSW; #SWCC; #Navy; #fastboats

How to train and apply to become a Navy SEAL or SWCC: https://www.sealswcc.com

We have a candid discussion with a junior SEAL officer about the Teams, the realities of training, and why he chose to put aside an easier life and become an elite warrior.

Welcome to 'The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday', the official Navy SEAL podcast. I'm your host, Scott Williams and with me today is Andrew Dow, who is a retired SEAL and runs the SEAL Officer Selection and Assessment Program at Naval Special Warfare. And also Mr. Rod Olsen, who is well, let me tell you a little bit about Mr. Rod Olson because he has quite a background. He is the CEO of Coaches of Excellence Institute and Coach O Consulting Group. Known as a "coaches coach", Mr. Rod Olson is an author of three books and a specialist on 21st century coaching and leadership following a 17-year football coaching career that included coaching positions at Oklahoma State University, and three-time national champion Appalachian State University. Rod has spent the last decade training and coaching leaders from Fortune 100 companies to the Dallas Stars of the National Hockey League, and the Texas Rangers of Major League Baseball. Currently, Rod mentors and coaches major commanders in the NSW community, which is part of what we'll talk about today, and also trains both SEAL and SWCC instructors quarterly at Naval Special Warfare. You can learn more about Rod at www.coachoconsultinggroup.org. Welcome. Mr. Olsen.

How to train and apply to become a Navy SEAL or SWCC: https://www.sealswcc.com

We dig into the mailbag and explain how SOAS works – everything from preparing for the cold ocean to (not) being the Gray Man.

Time to await fate. The trial of SOAS is over and now the SEAL candidates are chosen. Learn what goes into the process of selecting the winners.

Scott (Host)  
Welcome to another edition of ‘The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday’. I'm your host, Scott Williams, and today we're going to be talking SOAS. We have our SOAS representative, retired SEAL Lieutenant, Andrew Dow. And Andrew we've covered this now, three times. And we've talked about how to get ready for SOAS, what to expect, how to train for SOAS, all that good stuff, and then actually seeing a SOAS live in the flesh and watching as the evolutions go down. Today, we're going to talk about the aftermath. What happens when candidates have actually attended SOAS, gone through the two weeks, and gone home, and now they're waiting? So, tell me first, what happens after those evolutions are done, from the staff perspective.
 
Andrew (Guest)  
Okay. All right. So, we did talk about, you know, the whole pre-op, pre-application, we talked about assessment week, interview week, but what happens afterward is there's a SEAL panel, a SEAL Selection panel, and every applicant that attends SOAS finishes SOAS with a SOAS scorecard. Basically, it explains, and it tracks everything they've done during the SOAS both interview weekend and assessment week. So, it's their scorecard that shows how well they did on certain evolutions, instructor inputs, and peer inputs, all gets compiled, and the scorecard gets forwarded to the SEAL Selection panel. The panel happens at the end of the third block in September. There's a week-long process where several O-5s and O-6s and now this year alone, the two-star Admiral of WARCOM will be the panel president. They come together and they sit down and go through each application, their pre-application, they go through each scorecard, and they determine which applicant will receive orders to BUD/S and will receive a bill to become an 1130. Excuse me, 1180.
 
Scott (Host)  
You mentioned that the flag is sitting in this time. I think it's the first time that's happened. 
 
Andrew (Guest)  
That's correct. Yeah. In the past, it used to be the commodore of Naval Special Warfare Center. But this year, we're moving with having the two-star sit as the panel president.
 
Scott (Host)  
Yeah, I imagined as one of those potential selectees that I'd be at home sitting thinking, who is evaluating me right now?
 
Andrew (Guest)  
Well as in SOAS the evaluators and the assessors are NSW instructors and regular operators that will write down everything about you everything you do, but on the actual panel, you're having senior leadership, O-5 Commanders of SEAL teams, Commanders of Basic Training Command, the Commander of Advanced Training Command, you'll have the Commodore who's an O-6, which is a Captain in the Navy, sitting at the panel who used to be the panel president but now the Naval Special Warfare Command Admiral, two star, will be leading that panel.
 
Scott (Host)  
So, what are the big things they're looking for in that panel?
 
Andrew (Guest)  
Right. So, it hasn't changed much in the past, except that now that Naval Special Warfare is focused more on maritime and going towards that route of operations overseas. They're looking for, either way, they're looking for the whole-person approach. They want to see candidates that have great character, great teamwork, professionalism, and leadership, and are able to work in different situations that they can adapt to. So, what's tested at SOAS and that's what's presented at the board. They're looking at their cognitive abilities, their behavioral aptitudes, they're looking at their physical performance, which is very important, their comfortability in the water, as well as they'll be tested on their leadership abilities. They'll be put in tough situations. So, the results of those situations will be presented to the board as well. So, the big three are character, cognitive ability, and physicality.
 
Scott (Host)  
And, you know, we've heard of the gray man concept where, you know, you kind of sneak through BUD/S with not being the guy who's at the bottom and not the guy who's drawing attention as a star performer, but kind of blending in with the pack. How does the panel look at the gray man?
 
Andrew (Guest)  
Every community has a gray man, right? But in the officer community, you can't be a gray man. They're selecting the ones that stand out, they're not selecting the ones that do poorly and it's becoming more and more the norm to not select gray men. So, if you're the type of person who's very quiet and timid, and hey, I just, I'm just doing this to get by, you shouldn't even come and apply because you're not going to get selected the bottom line, they want to see the outgoing people, the people who aren't afraid to take risks, you know, coordinated risks and calculated risks. Excuse me. The gray man, as you're talking about Scott, as officers, that really doesn't sit well with the panel they're not going to move forward with someone who is I don't want to say introverted, because obviously, you have to be outspoken you need to be able to present yourself and to your, your, your subordinates. But as a gray man, they're going to pass you by, you're probably not going to get selected, to be honest.
 
Scott (Host)  
So maximum individual output, but also maximum teamwork?
 
Andrew (Guest)  
I'd say teamwork and vocalization. So, they're not looking for the, you know, the cheerleader who's looking at me, look, I'm the one talking all the time, just saying whatever they want to hear. They're looking for the ones who are actually saying the things that need to be said, the ones that are actually stepping out of that comfort zone of should I say something or should I just sit back. They're looking for the ones that are like, okay, I have a plan, explaining it to their men and women that this is what we need to do. And all of this is getting documented on their SOAS scorecard. So, the panel will see this, who's a gray man, who's a good-spoken leader, who's the ones that are just there to get a, you know, a nice flare on their chip saying, hey, I made it through SOAS.
 
Scott (Host)  
How do the quotas work? I mean, how many people are going to make that panel and roughly how many get selected.
 
Andrew (Guest)  
So, every year, the Admiral looks at the entire force and sees how many officers will be needed to fill in those ranks that are now missing. Each year, we're looking at sending to BUD/S roughly 80 to 95 Officer candidates to go to BUD/S. From that, their hope – their intent – is to get at least 60 to 70 Officer candidates to get through the pipeline, and to later on check into the teams. The one other thing though is those numbers have been relatively the same each year. As we spoke in an earlier webinar, you know, OCS specifically for being selected for BUD/S from the selection panel, OCS, we're looking at probably 90 to 100 applications and from that, we have about 60 attend SOAS and of that 60, only about 15 are 15 to 20, I'd say because there are some alternates, that get selected to go to BUD/S. And each accession source has a different one. But strictly OCS, that's the number for there. Naval academy has their own process that they select how many get through. ROTC same thing. I can go into those numbers too, give a broad range of that so that, you know the listeners can have an idea of okay, what are what are my chances what is the percentage of me, you know, being picked up if you want. 
 
Scott (Host)  
Shoot.
 
Andrew (Guest)  
Okay, so we have OCS. We have ROTC. ROTC, we see about 70 to 80 applications a year, of that 70 to 80, the board usually gets about 50 to look at. And of that 50 they pick about 15 to 20 to go to BUD/S. Naval Academy like I said, does their whole internal down selection to see who goes to so as themselves, but they start with as high as 250 to 300 applications, candidates and from there, they do their own little screeners, or they have two screeners a year and have that they probably send about 100. They have about 150 that come out of the screeners. From that 150, they only send about 60. So, they have a pretty intense down-selection process themselves. Of that 60 who attend SOAS, Naval Academy sends maybe 25 to 35 candidates to BUD/S. So that selection process is very...
 
Scott (Host)  
rigorous. 
 
Andrew (Guest)  
Thank you. Yes, rigorous. We have OCS, ROTC, and Naval Academy. Then there's the other accession sources, which we don't see as many applications for, and we don't see as many selected from that inner service transfer, when you have like your Marine Corps, your Army officers, your Air Force officers that apply for SOAS and attend. We see probably about from each one of those probably about five to ten a year and the selection panel maybe picks one or two maybe. As long as they have, you know everything we're looking for and that their service is willing to let them go to cross over to the Navy. We also see Merchant Marine Academy.
 
Scott (Host)  
I remember we've even in the past seen a couple of Coast Guard Officer candidates come through quite some time ago.
 
Andrew (Guest)  
Since I've been working, in the seat, I've seen probably three Coast Guard and strictly enlisted. Coast Guard enlisted apply that would like to go Officer. Enlisted to Officer. So, OCS Enlisted category. Before I touch on the Coast Guard specifically, the OCS enlisted side basically, that's anyone who is active duty in service from your seamen, seamen recruit your E-3 to I've seen an E-6. Actually, an E-7 this year, we have an E-7, which is the Chief applying. That is probably the hardest road any candidate accession source has because they're competing against Trident wearers. They're competing against SEALs who are enlisted that want to become officers. So, they fall in the same pool as those at the selection panel. So, any enlisted sailor that applies for SOAS that goes to SOAS that goes to the selection panel is actually competing against Trident wearers. So, it's a very, very challenging route, we get about 10 to 15 of those applications a year, and probably about one to two is selected each year to go to BUD/S. It's a risk that the panel takes because they obviously are presenting or showing something that the community is interested in. But back to the Coast Guard, they fall in the same category, but they would be interservice transfers. But once again, they would actually have to take one of the spots of the OCS enlisted. So, I've seen two or three. I'm not sure what it is, maybe it's the Coast Guard in general. They're not sending or allowing to send that many applicants. Because I believe several years ago, we actually had an officer get through, and as I Trident. To sum it up, I haven't seen many because I think the Coast Guard is keeping a close hold on who's being allowed to leave their service.
 
Scott (Host)  
Well, it's always about the needs of the service first. So, we do have male and female candidates go to SOAS and then those results are sent to the panel. How does the panel evaluate candidates in a gender-neutral manner?
 
Andrew (Guest)  

As candidates apply, both male and female, they go through a down-selection panel with the SEAL OCM and then they themselves the applicant and the application moves forward through SOAS.  At the end of SOAS, all applicants and applications are put in front of the SEAL selection panel, which is run by the two-star Admiral. To keep everything straight and professional, the gender identifiers, remove everything. So, they keep gender blind. So, all the panel is seeing is their scores, comments that are made about the candidate, they specifically say rather than he or she they'll say the candidate. There's no picture, there's no identifier. So, it's just strictly, 'how well did this candidate perform at SOAS' and any input that assessors may have if they want to look further, they'll look at their application, their actual application, but all that is scrubbed and keep the gender bias.

Scott (Host)   
So, they're looking at quantitative data and qualitative data that is scrubbed of gender identifiers. 
 
Andrew (Guest)  
Exactly. Yep. 
 
Scott (Host)  
So, that sounds good. So, they go through a process of selecting candidates, and now they have the list that they've chosen to attend, but how do they get the word out? How soon do they get the word out? And what form does that take? Is it an email or a phone call? Who is it to?
 
Andrew (Guest)  
Okay, so, in September when the seal selection panel convenes, they finish deciding from which session source will be selected to go to BUD/S. They honestly create a master kind of notification sheet, and this sheet has every candidate that applied if was selected. This gets sent out to the SEAL Officer community manager who then will make the formal notifications of who was selected. The SEAL OCM will notify the ROTC higher headquarters with the list, who will then trickle it down to all the units to let their candidates know if he or she made it or was selected or not. The Naval Academy same thing, the Naval Academy and I think ROTC have a specific it's called service selection night where they're notified if they what selection service selection there'll be going to. So, I believe that happens in November or December for Naval Academy and ROTC. Everyone else is usually notified, usually the middle of October end of it October or sometimes early November, if they've been selected or not. So, they'll be notified usually through email through the SEAL OCM, the SEAL Officer Community Manager if they've been selected or not. Sometimes for OCS, specifically, the Seal Community Manager will notify their recruiters, CRNC. And they will once again trickle it down to each individual recruiting station, who will then notify their applicant if they've been selected or not. So, usually about a month after selection, they're notified.
 
Scott (Host)  
That sounds good. So, if I'm that candidate, and I get the bad news that I didn't make it, what can I do to start getting ready for the next cycle? I still want to take another crack at this, I know where I can improve. But I want some more insights.
 
Andrew (Guest)  
What's really neat about this process is every candidate gets two attempts at SOAS. You can apply as many times as you want, but you get two boots on the ground you're at SOAS attempts. At the end of SOAS, if you find out you weren't selected and this was your first attempt, you can reapply and try again, you know the following year. The SOAS, the SEAL Officer Assessment Selection Officer-In-Charge, in the past has done a debrief for each candidate before the panel itself so you'll know leaving SOAS before the selection panel happens, what your strengths and weaknesses were. And you'll also get a copy of the scorecard that the selection panels looking at will see all your greens and your reds, your goods and your bads. So, you'll be walking away with 'okay if I'm not selected, this is what I need to work on'. So you have some homework to do. So, you can go back and train harder or work on the things that the SOAS staff saw that you needed to work on. Another resource you have is one side component of my job is also I host six webinars a year, it was based around the NROTC schedule. So we did three in the fall semester and three in the spring semester. And that maintains but instead of just ROTC I've opened it up to OCS and any other candidate that is interested in going to SEAL pipeline as an officer to attend. It's as easy as just shooting me an email and I'll add you to a distro list, I have an email distribution list that I send to all interested candidates. And this gives them the schedule of one I'll be running these webinars, the webinars, I think it's a great resource. It's very informal, it's just me up there, I'll have a topic to talk about. It's the main purpose of these webinars – so candidates can meet other candidates that are interested in doing what they want to do. And it gives them another resource that could potentially give them a swim buddy to train with, if they find out they're in a town next to each other, or they're from the same town. But it also gives them, like, that social network that the Naval Academy has, because the Naval Academy, I mean, all the candidates are sleeping in the same dormitory. So they're constantly getting feedback from each other. And they have that access of having SEALs on the Naval Academy campus grounds. So I'm trying to give that to them. And someone they can reach out to ask all those questions that they may not feel comfortable asking active-duty SEALs. So, they can ask me anything regarding the SEAL application or, you know, what are some strengths and weaknesses. So the bottom line is it's just kind of a gathering point for candidates who are wanting to become SEAL officers to get to know each other because the webinar lasts probably an hour for each session, but I leave it open after I leave, I leave it open for the candidates to just, you know, have small talk and discuss amongst themselves 'hey, what do you write on your application or different tips or tricks that you've learned throughout the process'. Even for those individuals who are applying a second time, they may be able to give feedback to these other interested candidates about their application what was strong and what was weak even before going to SOAS, so they know even before submitting an application so they know okay I should watch out for this and learn from each other from trial and error.
 
Scott (Host)  
What's a typical SOAS topic? Like what did you talk about the last time.
 
Andrew (Guest)  
So, I break it down. One of my intents, is I try to reach out to some the SEALs I know to come on and give their experience whether they've been through SOAS, whether they you know their experience as a junior officer and the team's their experience in BUD/S, experience in SQT, leadership experiences. I try to touch on everything with these speakers to come and talk about and it's an open forum. So, you know, they'll give their 10-15 minutes speech on leadership or mental toughness. And then the guest speaker will open it up to questions and that's the opportunity for candidates to ask any question they want to an active-duty SEAL officer. I also tried to bring in SEAL enlisted to get the enlisted point of view to kind of talk on what they look for in their junior officers and officers being groomed in the community. What these enlisted operators want to see in their officers, to get a little poll on each type of SEAL officer that's coming into the community. So, I tried to hit senior enlisted as guest speakers, I tried to get junior officers, mid-grade officers. I try to get just people who've been in the pipeline enough to speak on SOAS but also the ones who are past that to speak on their time in the teams as junior officers and through the ranks. I mean, I'll also hit on I'll have a specific webinar on the SOAS application process. I'll have one on mental toughness, different tricks that can help compose yourself while you're going through the entire process. We'll discuss the ethos in the SEAL creed. Just so because a lot of these candidates might not know about the whole community. So, I tried to give them an NSW 101.
 
Scott (Host)  
That's some great until and I thank you for joining us. This has been a very informative four-part series about SOAS. Hopefully, we've covered all the bases that candidates need to hear when they're considering a career as an NSW SEAL Officer. We're going to get together again, I'm sure in the future, and talk more about Officer issues but for now, that's going to wrap it up for today. I'm Scott Williams. Thanks for joining us, Andrew Dow, for another edition of 'The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday'.
 
Andrew (Guest)  
Thanks again.

It’s no picnic for SEAL Officer candidates. Hear what it’s like as we take you to the obstacle course and watch the candidates learn to overcome mental and physical challenges.

You can’t fake it to make it. We tell you how to navigate the application process and what you need on your resume.

Scott Williams:  

Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Only Easy Day Was Yesterday. I'm your host, Scott Williams, and today we have Andrew Dow with us to discuss the topic of SOAS. This is Part 2 in our series. In the first part, we talked about what SOAS is, and Andrew explained that pretty well to us. Now we're going to talk about how to prepare for SOAS, and this is the SEAL Officer Assessment and Selection process. So, Andrew, welcome. Let's get right into it. Let's talk about the application process itself. How do I apply if I want to be a SEAL officer? How do I apply for SOAS? What are some of the dates and things that have to be done and prerequisites? Just talk to us about that.   

Andrew Dow:  

The SOAS application is very straightforward; all of it can be found on the SEAL OCM web page, and you can get to the SEAL OCM web page through SEALSWCC.COM. There are different application processes for different accession sources, so I'll first address the OCS, Officer Candidate School, or the civilians who want to become SEAL Officers. 

So, the SOAS application – before we even start anything, to be an officer in the military, an officer in the Navy, every candidate has to have their four-year degree. They have to have their bachelor's degree; whether you have your degree already or if you're just about to apply, you should start the summer prior to the application due date. Applications happen once a year. They're due to the SEAL OCM at the end of February, and every year it's the same. They are due to the SEAL OCM end of February. So, if you're an OCS applicant, you should start this application in the summer. So, in July or August, you go to an Officer Recruiter, start the OCS application, and work on the SOAS application. 

If you're NROTC and haven't let your chain of command know early, you start during the summer of your rising junior year. You start the SOAS application, and no matter what, the applications are due to the SEAL OCM end of February.

Once the application for any accession source is submitted, the SEAL OCM – Officer Community Manager – conducts a ‘down-select’. This down-select determines if you'll receive an invitation to SOAS or not. This happens usually at the end of March or early April, and then from there, they'll have the list of who will be attending SOAS, and you'll be notified in early April or the middle of April if you've been invited to SOAS. After you've received your invitation, you'll attend SOAS, whether it's in June, July, or August. After you complete SOAS, there's a SEAL selection panel that happens every September, where the Naval Special Warfare senior leader will sit down with a bunch of community officers and determine who will be selected to go to BUD/S. This happens in September. Candidates will be notified if they're going to BUD/S, usually in October, and then from there it's...if you're a ROTC midshipman, that October is your senior year, so you'll finish your year, you'll graduate, you'll get commissioned then you'll go to BUD/S. For OCS, you will usually attend OCS a month after receiving the selection, so you'll probably attend OCS sometime between November and April, and then you'll go to BUD/S late spring to early summer. 

So, the SOAS application is...there are different accession sources for SOAS to become SEAL officers. I'm strictly going to talk first about the Officer Candidate School, the OCS candidate – the civilians who want to become SEAL Officers. Before they can even apply and become, start the SOAS application, they have to have their four-year degree, and that goes for any aspiring officer in the military. Whether you're going to become a Naval Officer or an Army Officer, you have to have your four-year degree. 

So, the first step they have to do is they go down to their Officer Recruiter at any Navy Naval Station in their hometown or whatever is local to them, and they go in and talk to our Officer Recruiter and say, “I want to be a SEAL Officer through the OCS pipeline.” The Officer Recruiter will then start their application process, but concurrently and independently, they have to do their SOAS application and their SEAL Officer assessment application. This application can be found on the SEAL OCM web page. If anyone has issues getting to that web page because they have just changed the format of it, it can be very confusing to navigate. They can reach out to me. I will provide my contact information to Scott so if anyone has questions on how to get there.   

Scott Williams  

Yeah, just shoot us an email at [email protected], and we'll get that question answered.  

Andrew Dow 

Or they could go to the SEALSWCC.COM website, and there's a link to get to the SEAL OCM web page with the SOAS application. 

Scott Williams  

What does OCM stand for? 

Andrew Dow  

Officer Community Manager. The SEAL Officer Community Manager is the one who receives all the SOAS applications. 

So, an OCS candidate talks to their Officer Recruiter, and at the same time, they can utilize me, and I will help them with their SOAS application. So, the SOAS application for an OCS candidate starts with them going to their Officer Recruiter, the Officer Recruiter will handle different components of that application, but concurrently and independently, they're going to do their SOAS application. The SOAS application for an OCS candidate requires that they have a four-year degree, they have to have a PST score and a physical screening test score that can be done by their Officer Recruiter, who can proctor it. They have to have a resume. The resume is basically a brag sheet about the individual and what they have done prior to applying to SOAS, and this could be a wide range of things their leadership experience, their athletic background, their GPA, what majors they studied, do they speak any languages, this is the time that they get to brag about themselves, check your modesty at the door. You want to basically tell on this resume everything great about yourself. 

Scott Williams  

And is that the kind of stuff that NSW is looking for?  

Andrew Dow 

Yes, during the SOAS application, we want to see – because they're looking for individuals with athletic backgrounds – the ones with strong GPAs or are bilingual, or have leadership experience in the real world that they will be able to utilize in the SEAL community. So, one of the components of the SOAS application is that resume, so that's like I said, is your brag sheet. 

After you have the resume, you need your letter of references, usually get two of those, and it's given to someone who knows you and who can write about talk about you, your leadership, your character, what you have done in life up to this point and for them to basically talk about it. In the past, I've told candidates, some good people to write a letter of reference for, you know, high school coaches, high school teachers, college teachers, college coaches, and some of your mentors that you know that you've looked up to in the past.  

Scott Williams  

So, it doesn't have to be, you know, your local senator, for instance, as it would be if you're applying to the Naval Academy and yet you're getting a senator to write a letter recommendation or some Admiral somewhere it really has more to do with how well does that person know you so that they can evaluate you as someone that is well known versus…. 

Andrew Dow 

The whole point of letter references is not about the signature at the bottom. It's about the individual, the candidate. The person writing these LORs should know this person and be able to write good things about them, and just like you said, you're not looking for a senator; hey, if you know a senator and he knows you since you were born by all means, utilize that individual. Or if you know a four-star Admiral or a four-star general who knows you and your family by first name, yeah, you can utilize those, but if you're just in passing and you see this four-star who you had the chance to say hello and then you ask can you write a letter of reference for me, that's probably not a good idea because the selection penalty sees these all the time. And it's frowned upon because they don't know you. You want to find someone who knows you. That's the most important thing for these letters of reference. 

Along with the LORs, you have the OCD, which is the Officer Candidate Data card. It's basically a snapshot of the individual. The Officer Community manager can provide this to you, and it's basically just filling in all the important highlights of your resume, your GPA, your leadership background, and your athletic background. Also included is a headshot of the candidate. So, each candidate is also going to be required to provide a headshot in business casual. Don't be taking a picture in board shorts, and T-shirt, and flip-flops. Look professional, because this is an interview. 

Scott Williams  

So, it's kind of like a baseball card, in a way?  

Andrew Dow  

Right, right.  

Scott Williams  

It has your personal stats...

Andrew Dow  

Yes, exactly  

Scott Williams  

...what you look like and your major accomplishments.  

Andrew Dow  

Yeah, height and weight. It's going to say, the four-year degree you got, if you have a master's degree, it will say that. It will say what you did in college, what you did in the real world of the jobs you've held, and any languages you've spoken.  

Scott Williams  

How important is the degree or the school that you got it from? Like I get the question all the time, what should I get a degree in. Or does it matter if I go to Stanford or Timbuktu University. Tell me.  

Andrew Dow  

So that's a great question, and so my opinion on this and what I've said and seen over the last few years on applications is, your major doesn't matter. What I tell all candidates is to take a major that they enjoy. Take a major that you feel you'll do well in or any major that you can see yourself doing in the real world. Don't take something because it looks good on paper, and you want to have a backup plan. Because if this whole becoming a SEAL officer falls through, you want to be able to do something in the real world that you enjoy. So, if you're an art major, and you enjoy that, do it. What's important is that if you're doing it, make sure you do well in it because the selection panel and the down-select panel are not going to. If you're an economics major, and you have a 2.0, that's going to show something that you didn't really care about it. But if you're a physics major and you have a 3.0, we know physics is a challenging topic, a challenging degree. And to get a 3.0 or above is amazing. So what I tell candidates is major doesn't matter. As long as it's something you enjoy and it's a backup plan for you, do well in it. Don't just pick a major because it's hard. That's going to show that you didn't put the effort in if you have a low GPA. 

School-wise, school-wise, is important, but not everyone can afford to go to Stanford. Not everyone can get a scholarship to Notre Dame. So, you do the best you can with what you have. That's what I tell applicants. Because at the end of the day, you're going to prove to yourself that SOAS that's where the rubber meets the road for applicants trying to become SEAL officers. 

Scott Williams  

Just as long as it's an accredited school and not Joe's fly-by-night online university kind of thing. Not that online degrees are bad, as long as the school is accredited.  

Andrew Dow  

Absolutely. So, you got your four-year degree. You got your letter for references. You have your resume and your brag sheet. You have your PST score. In addition, there, there is medical documentation that you'll need. 

Once you do your OCS application, you'll receive medical documentation that you will be required to submit with your SOAS application. These are your DD 2807 and your DD 2808 that you receive. Your officer recruiter will know what these are, and he or she will be able to help you get that paperwork and submit it with your SOAS application. 

So, the application process for OCS candidates there are two of them, you get your OCS application and your SOAS application. I'm here for you all to answer any questions about the SOAS application and help guide you through that. Now, that's OCS in a nutshell. 

Andrew Dow  

The other accession sources, Naval Academy and ROTC, their process is a little bit different. Naval Academy has its own machine. If you could get to the Naval Academy once you get there, they'll walk you through the process. 

Let's talk about ROTC, the NROTC, Navy Reserve Officer Training Corps. Basically, you go to a regular college, and some colleges have NROTC, and that is an opportunity for you to be exposed to the military lifestyle but also go to a regular college.  

Scott Williams  

And it's a scholarship?  

Andrew Dow  

Yes and no. So not every NROTC individual gets a scholarship, usually around their second or third year. They'll get the opportunity, if they did well in school since then, to get the rest paid for. 

Scott Williams  

But the fundamentals of ROTC for any service is that you're committing to serving as an officer in that military, right? 

Andrew Dow  

Yes, yeah. So, the NROTC process is everything that's required for the SOAS application, as we said, can be found on the SEAL Officer Community web page. But for ROTC, for you to become a SEAL officer, you need to start your freshman year. You need to let your chain of command of your NROTC unit know that ‘my focus and my goals are to become a SEAL Officer.’ 

So, I'm going to work towards that because NROTC historically, candidates are, you know, STEM-focused, they're looking at mathematics and sciences and mechanical engineer and systems engineer, right because they're trying to build officers for the nuclear Navy or to be pilots or to be Surface Warfare officers. 

Because the SEAL community is so tiny, is such a small community in the Navy, it's not a focal point at NROTC. So, it is imperative that you let your chain of command know right away what your intentions are. Once you make them aware of what it is, strive hard while you're at school to seek leadership positions in the NROTC. You can be a squad leader, you can be a training sergeant – you want to get as many leadership opportunities as you can while you're at NROTC, and it can start your freshman year. You can be a leader as a freshman or a fourth class in the NROTC ranks. And that you want to be able to write down your brag sheet on your resume, which is one of the requirements for the SOAS application.

The other thing I want to instill and drive home: when you are added to the NROTC unit, that shouldn't be the only thing you're doing. If you played sports in high school, you should be playing sports in college. Even if you're doing NROTC because that's not full-time, you should be able to make time to play a sport. I'm not saying go walk on the varsity Notre Dame football team. What I am saying is they have clubs and sports; they have intramural sports. 

Stay active, stay busy, because these are more things you can add to your resume your application, and to brag about yourself and opens up different leadership positions. You could be a captain, you can be a treasurer, or you can hold a leadership position on any of these athletic teams.  

Scott Williams  

Is this because the board is looking at the ‘whole man’ concept? 

Andrew Dow  

Yes. Yes, the whole man concept is one of the major things the selection panel is looking at. We don't want to see just the person who goes to school, does good grades, and workouts in their room. We want to see the ones who are reaching out to their communities, you know. Striving on the athletic field, who are also working in their NROTC units, you want to see individuals who do it all, not just a single line straight to the ‘I'm going to college, ROTC, SEAL’. No, we want to see people reaching out and doing those extracurricular activities. 

Scott Williams  

Like they could even be part of a student body, a student government organization that can be involved in a fraternity and do community service, things like this? 

Andrew Dow  

Right. And you know that a lot of applicants that we've seen specifically from NROTC aren't just NROTC. They're playing some sort of sport. And it doesn't have to be like I said, Division One. It can be a club, but they're staying busy. They're not just focused on school and ROTC. They're doing other things. And this has helped them in the end.  

Scott Williams    

Roger.  

Andrew Dow  

Something I want to talk about for NROTC Midshipmen specifically is you let your chain of command know that you want to go SEAL Officer early on as early as possible. Make them involved in your decision. If you go to SOAS, you apply your second-class year, and you go to SOAS during your rising senior summer. If you're not selected, or if you are, if you're not selected, it's not the end of the world. There are still other ways to still become a SEAL Officer. One, you're going to have to...the easiest way is to lateral transfer, put in for a Surface Warfare position, do your time, earn your warfare insignia, and lateral transfer from there. So it's not the end of the day. So, you could still become a SEAL Officer. It's just a little bit longer of a road for those who want to become SEAL Officers and don't learn about them until their junior year or sophomore year. It's okay. I mean, most candidates know they want to do it right away. But we do get the candidates who just didn't know, maybe their unit wasn't aware of SOAS, as long as they get their application or as long as they reach out to me prior to their junior year or during their junior year before the applications are due. I can help guide them through the application process. So don't feel like if you're a junior or sophomore, it's too late. You can start this process as a junior.  

Scott Williams

Okay, so we kind of covered OCS. And NROTC …  

Andrew Dow  

Let me just hit on NROTC really quick. So, where it really is important is when they become a second class, that's when the application should be submitted. So, they let their chain of command know they are applying, they get it all together, they route it up to their chain of command, and then their chain of command will submit it to the SEAL OCM. 

Scott Williams  

That's their junior year?  

Andrew Dow  

That's their junior year. They will attend SOAS their rising senior summer.  

Scott Williams  

Okay.  

Andrew Dow  

So that's NROTC. And OCS, we've talked about the other applicants that we see. We have our lateral transfers, who are active-duty sailors already, though, they already have their process a little different. They have to get their chain of command approval. They have to submit lateral transfer paperwork. But they don't lateral transfer until they are selected for BUD/S. But they have to get approval from their chain of command before they can apply in their application process. Everything the ROTC and everything the OCS has to provide lateral transfer has been provided, as do the inter-service transfers. Our Marine Corps, our Army, our Coast Guard, and our Air Force all have to do the same application requirements, which are on the SEAL OCM web page and submitted to the SEAL OCM.  

Scott Williams  

And any of those applicants who are already in the military, coming from a different community, whether they're a lateral transfer from the Supply Corps or an inter-service transfer from the Marine Corps or, you know, even service academy transfer from the Air Force – if they should not make it through the selection process, they are returning to their original source?

Andrew Dow  

Right.  

Scott Williams   

You're going to go back and be an Army major like you were or whatever.  

Andrew Dow  

Yep.  

Scott Williams    

You don't. You're not. You're not transferred into the Navy as a general undesignated something?  

Andrew Dow  

Correct. So, it's almost, it's not a freebie, but you get to try it out for SOAS if you do well and you go to the selection panel, and they select you for BUD/S, then you will (apply) to the inter-service or a lateral transfer, and then you will go to BUD/S. If it doesn't work out and you're not selected, you'll go back to the community you just came from. 

Scott Williams  

Okay. So, we talked a little bit about some tips for having a strong application. Those are making sure that your letter of referral or letter of recommendation is coming from the right source. We talked about how, as a student in college, you want to be involved in many different things. And I think that probably applies to all the applicants they have since they're looking for a whole man or whole woman concept. They want to see people who are well-rounded, not just, ‘I'm an ace at athletics’, or ‘I'm a total egghead’. They want to see people well-rounded out, people who can demonstrate some leadership, some commitment to teamwork, and things like this. 

Andrew Dow  

Yes. And fortunately, our lateral transfers are inter-service. They're coming from communities where they served as leaders already. You got your O-1s, your Ensigns, Lieutenants, Second Lieutenants, your First Lieutenants, and your Lieutenant JGs. You have all these individuals who have leadership experience. So, these are important roles that the selection panel is looking for – that it's the whole man concept or woman concept, as you said. 

Scott Williams  

So, I know that a lot of people are probably wondering, this sounds really interesting. Gosh, I want to do that. How do I train for SOAS? 

Andrew Dow    

I want to say that a lot of people believe that if I can just train for the PST, I will crush SOAS. That is completely false. You should train for the PST to do well on the PST. But when you're training for SOAS, you need to be focused on lots of running, lots of swimming, lots of calisthenics, and lots of body weight lifts. And if you're looking for a specific guide, one of the mentions is the PTG, the physical training guide. It can be found on the SEAL SWCC website. It is 26 weeks of training from start to finish, and it's a good preparation tool to get you ready for SOAS because SOAS, in a nutshell, is BUD/S without all the BUD/S craziness of instructors yelling at your face. You're going to do Log PT; you're going to have boats on your heads. You're going to do four-mile time runs; you're going to do rucksack runs. So, this physical training guide will get you ready for that. And what I tell individuals is that you know, you train for the PST to do well on the PST, but when you're training for SOAS, you shouldn't be training like you're a bodybuilder. Shouldn't be trying to do it on a 500-pound bench press. You should be doing body weight lifts, high reps, lightweight, and long-distance like you want to be training as if you're a half marathoner.  

Scott Williams  

Endurance training? 

Andrew Dow  

Endurance training. Exactly. So that will that is a good starting point to get you ready for SOAS, but like that, PTG, the physical training guide on SEALSWCC.COM, that's where I direct a lot of candidates because it's a good starting point for them to get ready for SOAS. 

Scott Williams  

Well, I've heard the expression that BUD/S is a running man's game, but also the swim is very important too. And if you don't know how to do a combat side stroke, you may be at a disadvantage.  

Andrew Dow  

For those who don't know the combat side stroke. You could just YouTube it. The SEALSWCC.COM website has some videos that can or can show you the proper form. In the instruction for the PST, you can do breaststroke. That's one of the strokes that everyone should know. Crawl stroke or freestyle breaststroke, backstroke, all those different strokes, combat side stroke that the PST, you do combat side stroke during the PST; you can also do breaststroke, but combat side stroke is occupationally relevant. It's important because it has a lot of importance in the SEAL teams. It's a low, low signature. You save a lot of energy using it, and let's just look at the PST. What are you going to do right after the swim? You're going to do your pull-ups, your push-ups, and sit-ups. If you're doing the breaststroke, you're going to be burning out those chest muscles and arm muscles. The combat side stroke helps you spread out the conditioning of the entire stroke, right, so you won't be as fatigued when you're doing those evolutions. Those exercises excuse me, but it also has important value within the community in the teams. The combat side stroke allows you if you're injured. You're still able to propel yourself with one arm or with one leg. You're able to pull your buddy if he's injured, he or she is injured, and you're able to get them out of a bad situation also allows you to move your gear silently, so there's less splash in the water. That's why we've tried to instill in the candidates to learn the combat strike sidestroke early. So that's what you're going with because that's what you're going to use in BUD/S and the teams. 

Scott Williams  

So, I think it's important to point out that, you know, when it comes to physical conditioning and learning how to train for SOAS, what should I do? 

Andrew Dow

Probably the best thing you can do is just use the free resources on SEALSWCC.COM. You don't need to pay for an expensive gym membership or, you know, follow some guy's routine, you know, pay for his subscription to do whatever; you don't need to pay for anything. And you don't need to get caught up in various, you know, fitness trends. Candidates today have the luxury of the Internet. And there's a ton of free stuff. I mean, I had to look up manuals and figure out what you do at BUD/S and how do I get ready, but with these resources, totally utilize them because they will get you ready. You, the SEAL community, are active in an active lifestyle. So, find things that can get you ready for SOAS, you know, utilize the SEALSWCC.COM web page. And whatever else is out there, you just want to be physically ready for SOAS because it is very challenging. It's not BUD/S, but it's a step to BUD/S. And it's very challenging. 

Scott Williams

Okay, so last question. So, we're going to talk about if I'm thinking about coming to SOAS. Let's say I put in an application and got accepted. Now, how do I get there? I live in Missouri, let's say. And SOAS is conducted out here, in Coronado. West Coast, San Diego. How do I get myself from Missouri to San Diego? Do I have to pay for that ticket? Do they pay for me? What am I going to eat? How am I going to eat? Where am I going to stay? Tell me a little bit about the logistics of it. 

Andrew Dow  

Every single candidate, right, submits their application, and there's a down-select panel that the SEAL Officer Community Manager conducts, and from there, individuals will receive either an invitation or not, they're either going to SOAS or not. At that point, they'll start working with me, the SOAS Program Manager, to figure out how they get here, and I'll help them. I'll walk them through the steps of how they get to SOAS. We'll determine which block you'll attend, whether it's June, July, or August, but you will everything will be handled for you. If it's an ROTC, your chain of command will get your orders set up on which block you'll attend, and they will fly you or drop your POV (privately owned vehicle) and get your government vehicle to get you to SOAS. 

For OCS, you'll work with me. I'll, we'll get you airfare, and we'll get you to SOAS. Lateral transfers are a different case. Right if your chain of commands is on board if you lateral transferring, maybe they'll pay for your flights. If not, you'll have to pay out of pocket. The big thing is getting to SOAS once you get there. Everything else is handled for you. Meals will be provided, lodging is provided, and everything is done in-house. So you won't have to worry about finding a hotel down out in town or where am I going to go eat at lunch. Everything is handled because everything is on the schedule. From the day you show up to the day you leave.  

Scott Williams  

And you mentioned that the first day when they arrive, they're going to get checked in, and they're going to get issued all the clothing and gear that they're going to need during SOAS. 

Andrew Dow

Yeah, so once everyone arrives, if you're arriving at the airport, Naval Special Warfare Center, the assessment team for SOAS will get you a shuttle from the airport or pick you up at the front gate of NAB Coronado and get you to your lodging your barracks where you'll be staying. Once all the candidates for that SOAS block get there, you will go and get gear issued, where you'll get everything you'll need for SOAS. Prior to coming to SOAS, you'll receive a warning order we call a Warno, that will provide a gear list of things you will be required to bring like your toiletries, sleeping bag, pillow, change of clothes, some running shoes, just you know, things that you that we will not be able to provide you once everyone gets here we'll go get your gear issued your uniforms, your boots, your fins, your wetsuits, your canteens, everything you'll need for so as will be provided to you on that first day you check-in. 

Scott Williams

That brings up a nice side question. I get asked a lot, "when I go to SOAS can I bring my medications or my vitamins or my shoe insoles?". 

Andrew Dow  

On this warning order, it will tell you everything you need to do. If there's a prescription that you're required to take, just like in anything, you'll check it into our medical department, and they'll issue it as needed. Supplements are not authorized at SOAS. If you're taking creatine or power whey protein or anything, you should stop that before coming, as that's not authorized. That's not authorized at BUD/S. That's not authorized at SOAS. Insoles, that's a great question. 

I'm always asked whether boots are going to be issued. I tell all candidates to buy their boots. Spend $150 to $180 on boots because you want to come to SOAS with a pair of boots broken in because if you come and they'll issue your boots, but you're going to be running with bloody feet because the shoes are not broken in, and by the time they've broken in you're going to be heading home. So get your own pair of boots. Right now, BUD/S is issuing the Nike SFB generation 2 all-black, non-Gortex boot. I would highly suggest you go and get that. I would highly suggest you do this early on once you receive an invitation. Get them, and start breaking them in because you want to come to SOAS with broken-in boots. 

Insoles – when I went through BUD/S, every person that went before me said, “get insoles”. Insoles are so important. Depending on what foot what size foot or what type of foot you have, if you have flat foot, arch foot, there are tons of different insoles. I highly suggest you purchase a nice insole that you can put in your boots and make sure you pre-workout in it prior to coming to SOAS because the thing you're going to be utilizing the most at BUD/S and SOAS is your feet and if your feet get destroyed, you're going to fail.  

Scott Williams  

Hey Andrew that sounds great. I appreciate you coming in here today and talking to us about the SOAS application process. And SOAS is really important for anyone who wants to be a SEAL officer. So we will continue this series about SOAS. Next, we will talk about the actual SOAS experience and what you can expect during those two weeks here at Coronado on the grinders of BUD/S and the sand dunes of Coronado. That's it for today. I'm Scott Williams, and we'll see you next time on The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday.