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0:28 Nathan’s work at AI2—and his p(doom) 5:00 What does “open source AI” mean? 11:01 How Nathan taught a Llama new tricks 18:05 Pros and cons of open sourcing AI 29:21 Nathan's ATOM Project to boost American open models 37:58 What's behind OpenAI's open source play? 40:20 Geoffrey Hinton's case against open models 44:27 Is the US-China open model rivalry really zero-sum? 51:32 Heading to Overtime

Robert Wright (Nonzero, The Evolution of God, Why Buddhism Is True) and Nathan Lambert (The Allen Institute for AI, https://www.interconnects.ai/). Recorded August 12, 2025.

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