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When I left my permaculture design course I was fairly comfortable walking the landscape and looking for areas of shade or full sun, and tracking how that would change throughout the day. To walk barefoot after a brief rain to feel where the soil drained quickly or to find spots where water pooled, even if I couldn’t see it with my eyes. To build either a water or an A-frame level to plot and map contours. I knew how to make a base map, a plant list, and to use those to put together a design. With shears and a pocket knife, I could prune limbs or loosen pot-bound roots. With a shovel and spade, I could dig holes and put plants in the ground.

I could effectively design for a residence and work as a gardener and, with a bit of practice and planning, as a teacher. What I didn't know how to do was start a design company that could meet client needs efficiently. The scope of permaculture provided a huge number of tools, but I didn't know how to select the ones to create an efficient toolbox.

I've learned a lot since then, but find that how to work as a professional designer remains something missing from broader permaculture education. Though I see permaculture as a bigger umbrella than just landscape design and teaching permaculture design courses, these are areas where people have had and can continue to find, successful livelihoods. As that is the case, I want to share more about professional practitioners so you can take up the mantle of a designer and hang out your own sign offering design services, if you would like.

As my main work is as an educator and not a landscape designer, to further this conversation I wanted to call on someone with experience to share their process. So, my guest today is Owen Wormser, a landscape designer from Massachusetts who specialized in low-maintenance landscape designs with an understanding of the unique role and needs of permaculture practitioners.

Using the framework of his design business, Abound Design, as a model, he shares how he goes from finding clients, including his early days getting started, through to his design process, and how he lays out plants to finalize the design with his client. During our conversation he includes his thoughts on what work to accept; how as a professional we spend more time designing than just our time in the studio; and ways to consider setting our prices. We end with his thoughts on the DIY spirit of permaculture and how that translates to our work as professional designers.

Find out more about Owen and his design firm at abounddesign.com.

If you'd like to learn more about Owen's background and his recent book, Lawns into Meadows, we recorded an interview about this recently, which you can listen to here:

Turning Lawns Into Meadows

You can learn more about his book and pick up a copy at stonepierpress.org.

If you choose to become a professional designer, over time you'll develop your own process for speaking with customers, how you create your designs and the ways to go from paper to plants in the ground. If you're already a designer, you probably have many of these established already. Wherever you find yourself, I hope this conversation with Owen provided a fresh perspective and tools you can use every day in your practice, whether that's taking a more education-focused approach to your customer interactions, or finding ways to create functional designs more efficiently.

But, what Owen shared here is only the beginning. If you are interested in starting your own design company, what additional questions do you have? If you are already a professional designer, what would you add to what we discussed in this interview? Let me know.

Leave a comment in the show notes or send me an email: The Permaculture Podcast

Schedule a Consultation

I'm here to help you with your permaculture journey, whether that's deciding on your next steps, as a professional to bounce ideas off of for your next project, or to refine your permaculture design. You can schedule a one-on-one consultation, or casual conversation, at calendly.com/permaculture.

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Donate Directly: via PayPal -or- Venmo @permaculturepodcast

Want to listen to more conversations about Permaculture? 

When I left my permaculture design course I was fairly comfortable walking the landscape and looking for areas of shade or full sun, and tracking how that would change throughout the day. To walk barefoot after a brief rain to feel where the soil drained quickly or to find spots where water pooled, even if I couldn’t see it with my eyes. To build either a water or an A-frame level to plot and map contours. I knew how to make a base map, a plant list, and to use those to put together a design. With shears and a pocket knife, I could prune limbs or loosen pot-bound roots. With a shovel and spade, I could dig holes and put plants in the ground.

Learn More

Online: via PayPal

Venmo: @permaculturepodcast

My guest today is Nigel Palmer, author of The Regenerative Grower’s Guide to Garden Amendments.

In our conversation, which begins with his biography, he shares his inspiration from the work of John Kempf and Dan Kittredge, along with the JADAM Korean farming method, to create garden amendments at home from hyper-local sources: eggshells and bones from his kitchen, scraps, and remnants from the garden, and leaf mold from the forest floor. Using ferments, tinctures, and extracts, he creates the foliar sprays, fertilizers, and soil drenches to grow disease and pest-resistant plants, and nutrient-dense food, without the need for commercial chemical fertilizers, pesticides, or fungicides.

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Donate Directly: via PayPal -or- Venmo @permaculturepodcast

Want to listen to more conversations about Permaculture? 

My guest today is Nigel Palmer, author of The Regenerative Grower’s Guide to Garden Amendments.

Learn More

Online: via PayPal

Venmo: @permaculturepodcast

My guest today is Allen Clements, a permaculture practitioner who, when we recorded this interview in January, 2020, was completing his certification in Biodynamic Agriculture at the Pfeiffer Center in Spring Valley, New York.

I’ve been intrigued by biodynamic agriculture as a farming practice since first hearing about the growth of biodynamic wineries in Sonoma Valley, California. How did Rudolf Steiner’s philosophy impact the way we managed the land? How does Biodynamic Agriculture differ from permaculture or organic ag? And, what was the deal with the preparations, like stuffing a cow horn full of manure and burying it in a field?

Visit Our Sponsor: Foraged.Market

Donate Directly: via PayPal -or- Venmo @permaculturepodcast

Want to listen to more conversations about Permaculture? 

My guest today is Allen Clements, a permaculture practitioner who, when we recorded this interview in January, 2020, was completing his certification in Biodynamic Agriculture at the Pfeiffer Center in Spring Valley, New York.

Learn More

Online: via PayPal

Venmo: @permaculturepodcast

Today’s interview was originally recorded by the Australian podcaster Dan Palmer for an episode of his excellent, Making Permaculture Stronger. I’ve known Dan since before he started his show and as I recall it was at 1 or 2 AM on the East Coast of the United States when we connected over Skype several years ago to talk about his plans for starting a new podcast with a deep focus on the design process as it applies to permaculture, and what we can learn from experts within and without the community.

As my focus over the years has been on the breadth of what it means to practice permaculture, and not the specifics of design, I shared with Dan my thoughts on how to develop an interview style and choosing how much to prepare for those conversations ahead of time. How to find your narrative voice and make decisions early on that establish your on-air presentation.

After a rather enjoyable chat that ended as I could stay awake no longer and he needed to head to his evening meal, I’ve continued to follow Dan’s show over the years and find my own inspiration in him taking on the vital subject of design. With this admiration, I jumped at the opportunity when he recently reached out to ask if I’d want to share an interview he’d recorded with the founder of Holistic Management.

Needing little introduction, the Zimbabwean ecologist Allan Savory has spent decades developing and refining how we can manage complexity in the environment, on our farms, and in our lives. In a forward-thinking approach that walks us backward from the vision of how we want our world, land, or life to be, we can then look well beyond the moment and see where we want to go and how to get there

This is, of course, a simplified explanation of a fascinating and deep system for managing a wide range of issues, but which has roots in fighting desertification and reversing climate change.

You can find more about Allan and his work at Savory.global

Dan’s website and podcast are at makingpermaculturestronger.net.

You can read Dan's original show notes at: https://makingpermaculturestronger.net/permaculture-holistic-management/

Leaving this interview what Allan said about our ability to manage complexity stuck in my mind, and so I immediately picked up a copy of the audiobook of Holistic Management, Third Edition, A Commonsense Revolution to Restore Our Environment. What stood out both in the book and from this conversation is how Allan turns the language of complexity around so that we do not have to name what we face, but rather focus on the desired outcomes of our holistic context while allowing us to quickly grasp what we need to do to achieve that end. Along the way we have checks to see whether or not what we’re doing is correct for reaching that long-term holistic context.

Why this stood out to me was that in my graduate program years ago, we used to break complex situations down into two main categories: issues and problems. Issues were the overarching conditions leading to detrimental effects which cannot be directly addressed through a simple on-the-ground action or small policy change. Problems were individual pieces we could create a plan or policy around and thus change. The issues we found drove what problems we could solve, thus ameliorating the impacts of the larger issues. Work on enough problems, the theory went, and eventually, you’d solve the issue.

As I understand what Allan’s doing, Holistic Management takes all of that, wraps it up in one process, and allows us to continuously work on both the issues and problems in parallel. Though I know there’s much more to the method than my words here express, there exists a tangible power behind Holistic Management to achieve a beautiful, bountiful world where we’ve afforested the deserts and reversed climate change.

But, those are just my thoughts at the moment. What are yours?

Leave a comment in the show notes, or send me an email: The Permaculture Podcast

A few updates and announcements:

One of those, as we approach the 10th anniversary of the podcast, is the annual Summer to Fall fundraiser.

My goal for this fundraiser is two-fold. The first is to upgrade the computer where I edit the show. The second is to invest in some video equipment to record video interviews and site tours once the world recovers from COVID.

To go along with the fundraiser, for anyone donating $50 or more (please include postage, international listeners), if you include your address in the notes for your donation, I’ll send you a USB drive with every currently available interview, monologue, and discussion from the first decade of The Permaculture Podcast. That includes the first show from 2010 all the way up to the 10th-anniversary episode out on October 10th of this year.

Also, I’m here to help you find the resources necessary to bring your vision of permaculture into the world. You can now schedule a one-on-one consultation with me, or a more casual, meandering conversation if you prefer, at calendly.com/permaculture.

Finally, there are more voices in the world doing amazing work than I could ever have the possibility to record an interview with, so if you’ve ever thought, “I’d love to hear an interview with a member of my community on The Permaculture Podcast,” now’s the opportunity. I’d like to teach you how to record a conversation and send it to me to share on the show. You don’t need to edit or produce the interview, I’ll take care of all that.

I’m also particularly interested in stories recorded by women and young people and from Black, Indigenous, and People of Color communities.

If you’re interested, let me know. Send an email to: The Permaculture Podcast with the subject, “My Community” and pitch me the story you’d like to share.

Until the next time, spend each day managing complexity, while taking care of Earth, your self, and each other.

Visit Our Sponsor: Foraged.Market

Donate Directly: via PayPal -or- Venmo @permaculturepodcast

Want to listen to more conversations about Permaculture? 

Today’s interview was originally recorded by the Australian podcaster Dan Palmer for an episode of his excellent, Making Permaculture Stronger. I’ve known Dan since before he started his show and as I recall it was at 1 or 2 AM on the East Coast of the United States when we connected over Skype several years ago to talk about his plans for starting a new podcast with a deep focus on the design process as it applies to permaculture, and what we can learn from experts within and without the community.

Learn More