The Peterman Pod

Ilya Grigorik grew to a Distinguished Engineer (VP-level role) at Shopify and I asked him what it took to get there. We covered his full career including the behind the scenes of his startup getting acquired by Google, his growth to Director at Google, and what it means to operate like a Distinguished engineer.

𝗣𝗼𝗱𝗰𝗮𝘀𝘁 𝗹𝗶𝗻𝗸𝘀:

• Transcript: https://www.developing.dev/p/distinguished-engineer-at-shopify

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0MX9PyeCzDhdlyRv6slwIX

• Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-peterman-pod/id1777363835

𝗧𝗶𝗺𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗮𝗺𝗽𝘀:

00:00:00 - Intro

00:00:45 - Thoughts on Waterloo

00:04:36 - Starting his own company

00:08:40 - Google acquisition story

00:14:04 - Joining Google

00:20:28 - Switching back to IC

00:26:42 - Principal+ Engineering at Shopify

00:40:09 - Career regrets

00:44:53 - Top career-impacting book

00:46:59 - Advice for younger self

𝗪𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝘁𝗼 𝗳𝗶𝗻𝗱 𝗜𝗹𝘆𝗮:

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@igrigorik

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/igrigorik/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/igrigorik

• Personal Website: https://ilya.grigorik.com/

𝗪𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝘁𝗼 𝗳𝗶𝗻𝗱 𝗥𝘆𝗮𝗻:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman

• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryanlpeterman

Bobby Holley went from an intern to the CTO of Mozilla Firefox. I asked him about everything he learned in that process. We cover his full career including some interesting stories on living through the browser wars and advice on career growth.

𝗣𝗼𝗱𝗰𝗮𝘀𝘁 𝗹𝗶𝗻𝗸𝘀:

• Transcript: https://www.developing.dev/p/mozilla-firefox-cto-on-browser-war

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0MX9PyeCzDhdlyRv6slwIX

• Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-peterman-pod/id1777363835

𝗘𝗽𝗶𝘀𝗼𝗱𝗲 𝗟𝗶𝗻𝗸𝘀:

• NYT article link: https://www.livemint.com/Industry/q2EjgGX6d5Ouwec479WSqM/For-Mozilla-Google-group-hugs-get-tricky.html

• Mozilla VP twitter thread: https://www.computerworld.com/article/1722183/former-mozilla-exec-alleges-google-torpedoed-firefox-with-oops-excuses.html

• Internal memo on writing: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1518xKjijjEWHQb6wZjAWJrUN8liZGGI9v5pRFr9eFHo/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.1gfr5hva69qx

𝗧𝗶𝗺𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗮𝗺𝗽𝘀:

00:00:00 - Intro

00:00:57 - Starting at Mozilla

00:04:57 - Browser wars history

00:10:55 - Google relationship changing

00:16:11 - Why work for free

00:19:02 - Projects that drove his career

00:33:12 - No performance reviews

00:34:42 - Rust adoption

00:43:33 - Career progression

00:47:54 - Should you focus on promos

00:57:14 - Distinguished promo rejection

01:00:56 - Examples of distinguished engs

01:10:54 - Advice for aspiring distinguished engs

01:14:40 - AI browser wars

01:26:32 - Biggest technical regret

01:29:11 - Book that impacted his career most

01:32:09 - Advice for his younger self

𝗪𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝘁𝗼 𝗳𝗶𝗻𝗱 𝗕𝗼𝗯𝗯𝘆:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobbyholley

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/bhology

𝗪𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝘁𝗼 𝗳𝗶𝗻𝗱 𝗥𝘆𝗮𝗻:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman

• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryanlpeterman

David Fowler went from an intern to a Distinguished Engineer at Microsoft. That’s 11 different promotions all at the same company. I asked him about everything he learned by going through that process.

𝗘𝗽𝗶𝘀𝗼𝗱𝗲 𝗟𝗶𝗻𝗸𝘀:

• Transcript: https://www.developing.dev/p/intern-to-microsoft-distinguished

• YouTube: https://youtu.be/d8tRM8RJ52M

• Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-peterman-pod/id1777363835

𝗧𝗶𝗺𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗮𝗺𝗽𝘀:

(00:00) Intro

(00:53) Microsofts leveling system

(03:17) Joining Microsoft

(10:18) First successful project

(16:22) Bootstrapping his own project

(25:44) His principal promotion

(37:10) His distinguished promotion

(49:51) Engineers he looks up to

(53:40) Expanding on his top tweets

(1:05:20) Big company tip on reorgs

(1:08:25) What keeps him at Microsoft

(1:17:22) Microsoft culture after Satya

(1:23:04) Career regrets and work life balance

(1:29:51) Advice for his younger self

𝗪𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝘁𝗼 𝗳𝗶𝗻𝗱 𝗗𝗮𝘃𝗶𝗱:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidfowl/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/davidfowl

𝗪𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝘁𝗼 𝗳𝗶𝗻𝗱 𝗥𝘆𝗮𝗻:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman

• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryanlpeterman

David Singleton was the CTO at Stripe for 7 years before he left to start /dev/agents. Prior to Stripe, he grew from a junior engineer to a VP at Google. I recently asked him about everything he knows about career growth and being an excellent engineering leader. We discussed how Stripe hired at scale without Leetcode, why he thinks all engineering leaders should write code, the book that impacted his career most and many more topics.

Episode Links:

• Transcript

• Youtube

• Apple

Timestamps:

(00:00:00) Intro

(00:00:56) Before Google

(00:06:34) Joining Google

(00:12:56) Deciding to try management

(00:24:15) How to decide on EM vs IC

(00:28:58) Biggest gap in managing managers

(00:34:21) The difference between VP and Senior EM

(00:37:43) How to communicate well

(00:46:14) How managers can scale themselves

(00:51:17) How to build a new engineering site

(01:01:21) What kept him at Google

(01:03:57) The story behind joining Stripe

(01:12:34) Comparing and contrasting cultures

(01:20:55) How to set culture

(01:29:25) Is Stripe too reliable?

(01:33:48) Hiring at scale without Leetcode

(01:38:06) Lessons learned working with Stripe's leadership

(01:40:31) Why leave Stripe

(01:44:55) How his AI startup plans to compete

(01:48:46) Career reflections, regrets, what went well

(01:54:03) Top book and habit that impacted his career

(01:57:40) Advice for younger self

(01:59:04) Outro

Where to find David:

• If you are a builder: https://sdsa.ai/build

• If you are very excited about what they are building and would consider joining his talent dense team, you can email David here: [email protected]

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/dps

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidpsingleton/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@davidsingleton

Where to find Ryan:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman

• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@petermanpod

This episode was produced with the help of SF Podcast Studio: https://www.sfpodcast.studio/

We hit 25,000 subscribers! 🎉🎉🎉

Thanks so much to everyone who has supported my work, never thought we'd be here let alone this fast

Had some spare studio time booked and figured I might as well use it as time for an FAQ episode. This episode is for anyone whose curious about some of the story behind the podcast

Feeling very lucky, thank you all! 🙏

Also if you have any feedback for me about the show and how to make it better, I'd love to hear it. Feel free to drop a comment

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(00:58) Story behind the podcast

(05:30) Behind the scenes of the top episodes

(10:06) Dream guest list

(12:03) Learnings from podcasting

(13:10) Balancing content with a full time job

(14:28) Outro

Stefan Mai was a Senior Manager (M2) with experience across Meta and Amazon. We went over his career story in growing to M2 which is equivalent to Senior Staff (IC7) in big tech. Since he started his own company now, he was happy to be fully transparent about the behind the scenes of managing in big tech.

Since he founded the interview prep company, Hello Interview, I also thought it’d be interesting to talk about trends he’s seeing in AI cheating tools and how to get offers at OpenAI/Anthropic. We discussed:

• Meta Senior Manager (M2) career growth story

• Amazon vs Meta culture

• Which company had stronger engineers

• How low performer quotas & PIPs work

• Eng vs manager career growth

• Transitioning to AI/ML as an eng

• Getting offers at OpenAI and Anthropic

• Advice for his younger self

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(00:59) Early career at Amazon

(05:46) Growth to eng manager at Amazon

(11:31) Storytelling tips

(16:28) Why he left Amazon

(22:59) Transitioning to AI/ML

(27:01) Senior manager (M2) promo story at Meta

(31:30) Mutiny and manager politics

(40:34) Are managers harder to layoff?

(49:50) Senior manager (M2) skill gaps

(53:21) Eng vs manager career growth

(56:27) Amazon vs Meta culture

(01:00:34) Amazon vs Meta performance

(01:05:24) Low performer quotas

(01:08:55) Can you get out of a PIP?

(01:12:23) AI interview cheating

(01:16:42) Passing OpenAI & Anthropic interviews

(01:18:33) Job hopping

(01:22:37) When he grew the most

(01:24:22) How to write better

(01:26:22) Career motivations past M2

(01:28:11) Advice for younger self

Where to find Stefan:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stefanmai/

• His company: https://www.hellointerview.com/

Where to find Ryan:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman

Sash Zats grew to be a Staff Engineer (IC6) at IG despite switching teams 10 times in 9 years. His career journey was a series of jumps to exciting projects and letting career growth happen as a byproduct. I interviewed him to show you how team switches can play out.

We discussed:

• How 10 team switches in 9 years affected his career

• The story behind the Instagram blockchain initiative

• His 2 diff in 6 month performance review

• What working on Instagram Threads was like pre-launch

• The value of prototyping

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(00:49) First team: iOS on Newsfeed Delight

(05:30) What makes a good designer partner?

(08:30) Joining a hardware team

(12:08) 2 diffs in 6 months

(15:03) Joining the Instagram blockchain team

(21:37) Joining Instagram Threads pre-launch

(28:53) Working with an exceptional engineer (Peter)

(33:02) Working on AI prototyping teams

(37:15) Reflecting on team switching’s impact on career growth

(44:35) Why leave Meta

(46:15) Advice for younger self

(47:53) Outro

Where to find Sash:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sashzats/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/zats

Where to find Ryan:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman

Ethan Evans went from being fired twice because of poor soft skills to getting promoted to Vice President at Amazon with a team of over 800 engineers. I asked him about everything he learned along the way.

We discussed:

• Being fired for poor soft skills

• What VP promotions look like

• Working with Jeff Bezos and Andy Jassy (current Amazon CEO)

• VP performance reviews

• Stack ranking, PIPs and how managers can fire anyone

• Advice for his younger self

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(01:01) Experience before Amazon

(05:03) Getting fired twice & learnings

(14:02) Joining Amazon

(16:02) What VP promotions look like

(26:03) Promotion failure story

(29:14) Integrating Twitch into Amazon

(33:48) Jeff Bezos vs Andy Jassy stories

(36:53) VP performance reviews

(41:10) Stack ranking & PIPs

(46:11) A manager can fire anyone they want

(50:45) Advice for his younger self

(53:03) Outro

Where to find Ethan:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanevansvp/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/EthanEvansVP

• Newsletter: https://levelupwithethanevans.substack.com/

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-BAdkBGjOIlccGLZ3jbLiA

Where to find Ryan:

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/

Dwayne Reeves is a Senior Staff Engineer (IC7) at Meta who is the Tech Lead of the most used programming language (Hack) at the company. He started at the company as a new grad from MIT and shared the story of how his career grew. We discussed:

• His promotions to Senior (IC5), Staff (IC6), and Senior Staff (IC7)

• The value of type systems

• Transitioning to a TLM and why he switched back

• Working with brilliant engineers and overcoming imposter syndrome

• Advice for his younger self

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(00:39) Joining Facebook

(04:52) Did MIT help with career?

(07:13) His first team

(10:37) Why static typing is superior

(13:17) The uncanny valley of type systems  

(16:11) Senior Eng (IC5) promotion story 

(19:24) Staff Eng (IC6) promotion story 

(23:38) Manager transition story

(28:57) Managing ICs vs EMs

(32:54) Senior staff Eng (IC7) promotion story

(35:42) Impressive ICs

(40:33) Why stay at Meta

(44:28) Advice for younger self

(45:46) Outro 

Where to find Dwayne:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dwaynereeves/

Where to find Ryan:

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/

Carey Nachenberg was a Chief Scientist at a GoogleX moonshot, a Fellow (senior most eng at Symantec) and a professor at UCLA. I interviewed him about his career story and we discussed:

• Story behind his growth to IC10 (VP equivalent)

• How high-level IC recruiting works

• How imposter syndrome held him back

• How to develop “project taste”

• How AI is affecting his students

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(00:54) Growth to Fellow at Symantec 

(13:13) The most complex malware

(16:13) Why C was faster than assembly

(17:17) Imposter syndrome

(21:28) What matters more than intelligence

(28:03) Experience at GoogleX

(34:24) Leaving GoogleX

(37:43) Experience at Lyft

(43:40) Getting credit on collaborative projects

(46:53) Becoming a professor at UCLA

(49:13) How to speak well

(53:23) How AI affected his students

(1:03:53) Career regrets

(1:07:16) Finding work you enjoy

(1:09:03) Advice for younger self

(1:11:04) Outro

Where to find Carey:

•  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carey-nachenberg-14bbb03/

Where to find Ryan:

• Newsletter: https://www.developing.dev/

• X/Twitter: https://x.com/ryanlpeterman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlpeterman/

• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@ryanlpeterman

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanlpeterman