The Poison Lab

A quick Poison Lab update: new episodes are in the works, including a forthcoming NACCT research episode—though Ryan is briefly buried under mushroom-poisoning programming, NACCT, travel, and the start of a new academic year.

In the meantime, revisit the back catalog, including outbreak episodes, Toxicologists Versus the Internet, and favorites such as “Should We Give Naloxone in Cardiac Arrest?” and “Leafy Greens and Injured Beans: Nature’s Nephrotoxins.”

As a bonus, this episode includes Ryan’s interview with the podcast from the journal Addiction, discussing his recent study on kratom regulation and medical outcomes. For a more informal companion conversation, check out the “Co-Broadcast with the Kratom Sobriety Podcast” episode.

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• Full book reading (6 minutes!)

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After weeks of investigation, the Bozeman outbreak is contained, but the questions it raised are much harder to close.

In the final episode of A Morel Dilemma, we return to Montana to understand how investigators traced the mushrooms, looked for additional cases, communicated risk to the public, and worked to prevent another outbreak. But the ending is not as simple as naming a culprit. Morels have now been linked to severe illness and death, yet we still do not know the toxin, why some people are more vulnerable, or exactly how much cooking is enough.

Episode 7 brings the story back to what matters most: what we know, what we still do not know, and what has to happen next so this does not happen again.

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The GOTTA PICCEM Poisonous Mushroom Game!

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• Full book reading (6 minutes!)

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Production Note: Unless otherwise noted, the news-style audio clips featured in this podcast, including those in the introductory theme song, are dramatizations based on real events, not actual news broadcasts. These segments were researched and written by the producer and brought to life using AI-generated text-to-speech. Earlier iterations used actual news recordings, but this approach was chosen to avoid potential copyright concerns associated with using original broadcasts.

People have strong feelings about AI, many of which are entirely legitimate, particularly concerns about outsourcing human creativity. However, text-to-speech technology predates the current wave of generative AI, and The Poison Lab has been using it for years. Its use is limited to generating spoken audio from human-written scripts in the introduction and occasional news-style clips, allowing us to maintain production quality and creativity while avoiding potential copyright disputes. All scientific research, writing, narration, interviews, and editorial content are human-created, representing countless hours of work on an independently produced, unfunded podcast.

To those inclined to dismiss an entire body of creative work simply because an introductory theme song contains synthetic voices, you are, of course, entitled to your opinion. However, I would encourage you to consider the distinction between using technology as a creative tool and using it as a substitute for creativity. Dismissing hundreds of hours of original work over a single production choice strikes me as intellectually lazy. It reflects the kind of binary thinking that leaves little room for nuance and, in my view, is a much larger problem in the world today. I would hope that an audience interested in science, of all people, could appreciate that distinction.

When someone eats a mushroom and starts to feel sick, the first instinct is often to figure out exactly what mushroom it was. But mushroom identification is harder, riskier, and more specialized than most people realize.

In this bonus episode of A Morel Dilemma, we look at what actually happens after a possible mushroom exposure: who to call, why online apps and social media can be dangerous, and how poison centers work with trained mycologists and mushroom identification experts when the stakes are high.

Because in a mushroom emergency, the answer is not to keep scrolling. It is to call the Poison Center at 1-800-222-1222.

The Bozeman outbreak was the first loud signal, but it was not the only one.

After the CDC report, toxicologists in other countries started looking back through their own poison center data and found something unsettling: more patients with severe illness after eating morels, including cases of shock, gastrointestinal bleeding, and death. And it did not stop there.

In Episode 6 of A Morel Dilemma, we follow that signal beyond Montana and ask whether this was truly an isolated outbreak, or whether morels have been causing severe poisonings for years without anyone recognizing the pattern. We also meet the researchers now trying to answer the harder question: if morels are responsible, what exactly is happening inside this mushroom?

The mystery is no longer confined to one restaurant. It is starting to spread.

Select referecnces:

1. Dr. Vodovar's Study
2. Swiss Poison Center Study
3. Peter Dayton

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• Ad free episodes
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The GOTTA PICCEM Poisonous Mushroom Game!

The Poisonus Fungus Amongus Children's Book!

• Full book reading (6 minutes!)

Tox trinkets (Rep the show at home!)

• Email: [email protected]

More Show Resources

• Ryan's Medical Games and Resources
• Show Website

Production Note: Unless otherwise noted, the news-style audio clips featured in this podcast, including those in the introductory theme song, are dramatizations based on real events, not actual news broadcasts. These segments were researched and written by the producer and brought to life using AI-generated text-to-speech. Earlier iterations used actual news recordings, but this approach was chosen to avoid potential copyright concerns associated with using original broadcasts.

People have strong feelings about AI, many of which are entirely legitimate, particularly concerns about outsourcing human creativity. However, text-to-speech technology predates the current wave of generative AI, and The Poison Lab has been using it for years. Its use is limited to generating spoken audio from human-written scripts in the introduction and occasional news-style clips, allowing us to maintain production quality and creativity while avoiding potential copyright disputes. All scientific research, writing, narration, interviews, and editorial content are human-created, representing countless hours of work on an independently produced, unfunded podcast.

To those inclined to dismiss an entire body of creative work simply because an introductory theme song contains synthetic voices, you are, of course, entitled to your opinion. However, I would encourage you to consider the distinction between using technology as a creative tool and using it as a substitute for creativity. Dismissing hundreds of hours of original work over a single production choice strikes me as intellectually lazy. It reflects the kind of binary thinking that leaves little room for nuance and, in my view, is a much larger problem in the world today. I would hope that an audience interested in science, of all people, could appreciate that distinction.

Hey everyone, it’s Ryan.

I know many of you are patiently waiting for Episode 6 of A Morel Dilemma, and it is coming next week. I genuinely cannot wait for you to hear this one.

But it is actually available right now for supporter members. You can go to www.thepoisonlab.com/support and get every single episode right now for as little as $1 a month. And full disclosure, I only get about half of that. It does not go to profit. It just helps repay some of the very real costs of making this show: the interviews, editing, sound design, hosting, and the absurd amount of time that went into producing it.

So if you have been enjoying the series, becoming a supporter is an incredible way to help make work like this possible. And if you are already supporting the show, thank you. Truly. It helps more than you know. And for everyone else listening, thank you for being here and for sharing the series.

But for today, I wanted to give everyone a small glimpse into the supporter bonus episodes that have been available to members throughout the series. See the episode here

https://the-poison-lab.captivate.fm/episode/a-morel-dilemma-preview-supporting-member-bonus-episodes

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The GOTTA PICCEM Poisonous Mushroom Game!

The Poisonus Fungus Amongus Children's Book!

• Full book reading (6 minutes!)

Tox trinkets (Rep the show at home!)

• Email: [email protected]

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This preview features the opening conversations from two supporting member bonus episodes in The Poison Lab outbreak series.

First, we head to Ontario, where a mass aconite poisoning unfolded after a restaurant spice was contaminated with one of the most dangerous plant toxins in the world. Then we travel to Australia, where the poppy seed supply was contaminated with thebaine, triggering seizures and severe poisonings across the country.

These are the kinds of outbreak stories that show how quickly a routine exposure can become a public health emergency, and how clinicians, poison centers, laboratories, and public health teams work together to figure out what went wrong.

In this bonus episode of A Morel Dilemma, Ryan shares his recent interview on WTMJ Conversations with Libby Collins.

The conversation goes behind the scenes of the series and explores why Ryan spent two years investigating the 2023 Bozeman, Montana morel mushroom outbreak, one of the strangest poisoning outbreaks in recent history. Ryan discusses how the outbreak challenged long-held assumptions about morels, why mushroom poisonings are not all the same, and how public health investigators work through uncertainty when people become seriously ill from a shared exposure.

The episode also covers mushroom foraging safety, the difference between true and false morels, why raw or undercooked morels can be dangerous, and what Wisconsin poison center toxicologists commonly see during mushroom season. Ryan also talks about broader poisoning outbreaks, including vape-associated lung injury, contaminated synthetic cannabinoids, pediatric exploratory ingestions, THC edibles, and other toxicology problems that show up far more often than mushrooms.

This is a good episode for anyone who wants a more conversational introduction to A Morel Dilemma, the public health stakes behind poisoning outbreaks, and the strange world of mushroom toxicology.

Topics covered include:

• Why foraging is becoming more popular
• Why you should never eat a mushroom unless you are 100% sure of its identification
• True morels vs. false morels
• Why morels should never be eaten raw or undercooked
• The Bozeman morel mushroom outbreak
• How investigators think through foodborne poisoning mysteries
• Mushroom poisonings seen by poison centers in Wisconsin
• Death caps, destroying angels, and amatoxin poisoning
• Pediatric poisoning risks, including laundry pods, THC edibles, and household chemicals
• Why poisoning outbreaks are difficult to recognize and investigate
• What A Morel Dilemma is really trying to uncover

You can learn more about the series at ThePoisonLab.com or TheMorelDilemma.com.

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The GOTTA PICCEM Poisonous Mushroom Game!

The Poisonus Fungus Amongus Children's Book!

• Full book reading (6 minutes!)

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• Email: [email protected]

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In Episode 5, we put the morel mushroom on trial. This bonus episode shows how we built the case.

Dr. Grant Comstock joins me for the full, unfiltered causation breakdown using the Bradford Hill criteria, a public health framework used to separate true causation from simple association. We walk through the CDC data step by step, looking at strength of association, timing, dose response, plausibility, consistency, specificity, and the places where the morel theory starts to strain.

This is the deeper dive behind the trial: how toxicologists stress-test an outbreak theory when there is no smoking gun, no known toxin, and no easy answer.

Select references

1. CDC Bozeman Montana Outbreak Data
2. Ryan's paper on the Bradford hill criteria in EVALI

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The GOTTA PICCEM Poisonous Mushroom Game!

The Poisonus Fungus Amongus Children's Book!

• Full book reading (6 minutes!)

Tox trinkets (Rep the show at home!)

• Email: [email protected]

More Show Resources

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The case against the morel mushroom is starting to come together, but there are still major problems. Not everyone who got sick ate morels, and not everyone who ate morels got sick. If the mushroom is really the culprit, those gaps have to be explained.

In Episode 5 of A Morel Dilemma, we put the CDC data on trial with Dr. Grant Comstock and stress-test the evidence linking morels to the Bozeman outbreak. We look at case definitions, dose response, why some may have gotten sick but not others,

Because the question is no longer just whether morels can make people sick.

It is why this is happening now.

and whether this is truly a new danger or something that has been hiding in plain sight.

Select references:

1. Dr. Beck's Study
2. Dr. Leang's Case Series

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Get Messages from Toxo (Join the Newsletter!)

Join as a supporting member

• Ad free episodes
• Bonus content and early access
• Discounts and give aways on GOTA PICCEM Mushroom card game

The GOTTA PICCEM Poisonous Mushroom Game!

The Poisonus Fungus Amongus Children's Book!

• Full book reading (6 minutes!)

Tox trinkets (Rep the show at home!)

• Email: [email protected]

More Show Resources

• Ryan's Medical Games and Resources
• Show Website

Production Note: Unless otherwise noted, the news-style audio clips featured in this podcast, including those in the introductory theme song, are dramatizations based on real events, not actual news broadcasts. These segments were researched and written by the producer and brought to life using AI-generated text-to-speech. Earlier iterations used actual news recordings, but this approach was chosen to avoid potential copyright concerns associated with using original broadcasts.

People have strong feelings about AI, many of which are entirely legitimate, particularly concerns about outsourcing human creativity. However, text-to-speech technology predates the current wave of generative AI, and The Poison Lab has been using it for years. Its use is limited to generating spoken audio from human-written scripts in the introduction and occasional news-style clips, allowing us to maintain production quality and creativity while avoiding potential copyright disputes. All scientific research, writing, narration, interviews, and editorial content are human-created, representing countless hours of work on an independently produced, unfunded podcast.

To those inclined to dismiss an entire body of creative work simply because an introductory theme song contains synthetic voices, you are, of course, entitled to your opinion. However, I would encourage you to consider the distinction between using technology as a creative tool and using it as a substitute for creativity. Dismissing hundreds of hours of original work over a single production choice strikes me as intellectually lazy. It reflects the kind of binary thinking that leaves little room for nuance and, in my view, is a much larger problem in the world today. I would hope that an audience interested in science, of all people, could appreciate that distinction.

When every obvious test comes back negative, investigators have to look for another way to prove what caused the outbreak. So this episode takes a step sideways, from Bozeman, Montana to a small mountain village in the French Alps, where researchers faced a different kind of mystery: a cluster of ALS cases with no clear cause.

What they found there may help explain how scientists can link a mushroom to a devastating illness, even without finding a toxin.

In Episode 4 of A Morel Dilemma, we follow the investigation into Montchavin, mushrooms, environmental exposure, and the kind of epidemiologic detective work that becomes necessary when the lab tests do not give you the answer.

Select resources

1. Mont Chavin investigation
2. Mushroom Identification

Review the show where ever your listening

Get Messages from Toxo (Join the Newsletter!)

Join as a supporting member

• Ad free episodes
• Bonus content and early access
• Discounts and give aways on GOTA PICCEM Mushroom card game

The GOTTA PICCEM Poisonous Mushroom Game!

The Poisonus Fungus Amongus Children's Book!

• Full book reading (6 minutes!)

Tox trinkets (Rep the show at home!)

• Email: [email protected]

More Show Resources

• Ryan's Medical Games and Resources
• Show Website

Production Note: Unless otherwise noted, the news-style audio clips featured in this podcast, including those in the introductory theme song, are dramatizations based on real events, not actual news broadcasts. These segments were researched and written by the producer and brought to life using AI-generated text-to-speech. Earlier iterations used actual news recordings, but this approach was chosen to avoid potential copyright concerns associated with using original broadcasts.

People have strong feelings about AI, many of which are entirely legitimate, particularly concerns about outsourcing human creativity. However, text-to-speech technology predates the current wave of generative AI, and The Poison Lab has been using it for years. Its use is limited to generating spoken audio from human-written scripts in the introduction and occasional news-style clips, allowing us to maintain production quality and creativity while avoiding potential copyright disputes. All scientific research, writing, narration, interviews, and editorial content are human-created, representing countless hours of work on an independently produced, unfunded podcast.

To those inclined to dismiss an entire body of creative work simply because an introductory theme song contains synthetic voices, you are, of course, entitled to your opinion. However, I would encourage you to consider the distinction between using technology as a creative tool and using it as a substitute for creativity. Dismissing hundreds of hours of original work over a single production choice strikes me as intellectually lazy. It reflects the kind of binary thinking that leaves little room for nuance and, in my view, is a much larger problem in the world today. I would hope that an audience interested in science, of all people, could appreciate that distinction.