The Poison Lab

The Poison Lab

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The Poison Lab episodes

  • Poisoning Outbreak: Aconite Poisoning at Markham, Ontario Restaurant
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    The GOTTA PICCEM Poisonous Mushroom Game!

    The Poisonus Fungus Amongus Children's Book!

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    The Poison Lab: Outbreak – Markham Aconite Poisoning

    On August 29, 2022, twelve diners at a Markham, Ontario restaurant fell critically ill with vomiting, numbness, and life-threatening arrhythmias. The culprit? A deadly plant toxin: aconite.

    In this episode—the first of a new Poison Lab Outbreak series—we go inside the Markham mass poisoning case. Join host Ryan Feldman, clinical toxicologist and emergency medicine pharmacist, as he investigates how a rare and lethal toxin ended up in a restaurant spice jar and nearly cost lives.

    You’ll hear firsthand from the experts who responded to the outbreak:

    • Dr. Jessica Kent, toxicology fellow at the time at the University of Toronto
    • Dr. Abinhay Sathya, intensivist at Markham Stouffville Hospital
    • Dr. Margaret Thompson, toxicologist and on-call consultant for the Ontario Poison Centre
    • Dr. Randy Purves, research scientist at the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA)
    • Bryn Shurmer, MS- analytical chemist at the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA)

    Together, they walk us through the outbreak timeline—from the first patients in VT to the public health investigation that uncovered a mislabeled spice bag full of pure aconite root.

    Looking for timestamps?

    A fully timestamped version of the episode—so you can jump to any topic—is available to our supporting members.

    💡 Key topics:

    • Clinical presentation and toxic effects of aconite
    • Challenges in mass poisoning recognition and coordination
    • The crucial role of poison centers in outbreak response
    • Public health trace-back to contaminated galangal powder
    • Lessons for emergency departments and toxicologists

    📍 Resources & Mentions:

    • Case series about the incident written by Dr. Kent, Sathya, and Thompson
    • Twitter/X post by Dr. David Juurlink that helped disseminate early info
    • The Poison Lab previous aconite episode: Open and shut (Mystery Case #31)
    • Paper written by Ryan, Dan McCabe, and Crissy Lawson

    🎧 Listen now at: www.ThePoisonLab.com

    💬 Have thoughts or questions? Connect on Instagram @tox_talk, Twitter @LabPoison, or email [email protected].

    1 hr 9 min
  • MURDER for Lunch: Toxicologist vs The internet (#11) with Dr. Amy Zosel MD

    In this episode of The Poison Lab, host Ryan Feldman is joined by Dr. Amy Zosel, a medical toxicologist, emergency physician, and educator. Together, they use real poisoning cases to practice identifying toxins and flexing their toxic differential The conversation dives into intriguing and challenging toxicology cases, with a focus on educating listeners about real-world poisoning scenarios, myth-busting internet misinformation, and providing practical clinical insights.

    Mini episode with Dr. Robert Bassett on Remembering Poisonous Mushrooms

    Dr. Zosel and Ryan discuss:

    14:15 Case 1

    33:04 Case 2

    • News story

    37:00 Case 3

    • New story

    48:00 Case 4

    • News story
    • US outbreak

    "Robocough"

    Study about Naloxone in Clonidine overdose

    ++Spoiler++:

    Below this will be key takeaways regarding managing the poisonings discussed, it may ruin your experience if you are guessing the poisons

    Key Takeaways:

    • Amatoxin Mushroom Poisoning: The classic delayed onset of severe GI symptoms, followed by a latent phase, can mask progressive liver damage. Early recognition and treatment with hydration, silibinin, and possible liver transplant are critical.
    • Tetramine Toxicity: Known for causing refractory seizures, tetramine is a rare but serious poisoning often requiring aggressive supportive care and anticonvulsants.

    A Lethal mushroom hiding in edible mushrooms

    Mushroom foraging danger

    Resources Mentioned:

    • National Poison Control Hotline: 1-800-222-1222
    • National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
    • SAMHSA Free Helpline: 1-800-662-HELP (4357)

    Follow The Poison Lab:

    • Twitter: @LabPoison
    • Instagram: @tox_talk
    • Website: www.ThePoisonLab.com

    Subscribe and Review:

    Love what you're hearing? Help us reach more toxicology enthusiasts by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Don’t forget to share this episode with your colleagues and friends!

    A Morel DilemmaSupport the show

    Review the show where ever your listening

    Get Messages from Toxo (Join the Newsletter!)

    Join as a supporting member

    • Ad free episodes
    • Bonus content and early access
    • Discounts and give aways on GOTA PICCEM Mushroom card game

    The GOTTA PICCEM Poisonous Mushroom Game!

    The Poisonus Fungus Amongus Children's Book!

    • Full book reading (6 minutes!)

    Tox trinkets (Rep the show at home!)

    Reach the show

    More Show Resources

    • Ryan's Medical Games and Resources
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    1 hr 20 min
  • A Mnemonic For Poisonous Mushrooms and Their Effects- GOTAA PPICEM

    A Morel DilemmaSupport the show

    Review the show where ever your listening

    Get Messages from Toxo (Join the Newsletter!)

    Join as a supporting member

    • Ad free episodes
    • Bonus content and early access
    • Discounts and give aways on GOTA PICCEM Mushroom card game

    The GOTTA PICCEM Poisonous Mushroom Game!

    The Poisonus Fungus Amongus Children's Book!

    • Full book reading (6 minutes!)

    Tox trinkets (Rep the show at home!)

    Reach the show

    More Show Resources

    • Ryan's Medical Games and Resources
    • Show Website

    If you are looking for links to Dr. Basset's initiatives check back later, they are not fully launched yet!

    Check it out on Dr. Hamilton's website as well

    Poison Mushrooms! Got’a Pic’em (GOTAAPPICEM) A mnemonic device to sort through mushroom ingestions – The Hot Stove League of EM/Tox

    The GOTAA PPICCEM Mnemonic

    Late-Onset (Severe) Toxic Mushrooms ("GOTA")

    These mushrooms have delayed symptoms (>6 hours) and are associated with significant toxicity:

    G – Gyromitrin (Gyromitra esculenta) – False morels; inhibits GABA, leading to seizures.

    O – Orellanine (Cortinarius spp.) – Causes renal failure; famously poisoned The Horse Whisperer author.

    T – Tricholoma equestre (Man on Horseback) – Leads to rhabdomyolysis.

    A – Amatoxin (Amanita phalloides, Galerina spp.) – Causes liver failure; the most lethal mushroom toxicity.

    Early Onset Nausea, Late Toxicity Mushrooms ("A²P²")

    A² – Allenic norleucine (Amanita smithiana) – Found in the Pacific Northwest; early GI symptoms followed by renal failure.

    These may present early but still cause significant toxicity.

    P² – Paxillus spp. – Can cause hemolytic anemia and multi-organ injury.

    Early-Onset Nausea Mushrooms ("PICCEM")

    P– Psilocybin (Psilocybe spp.) – Hallucinogenic, similar to LSD, typically low toxicity but may cause hyperthermia or seizures.

    Symptoms appear within 6 hours and are usually self-limited.

    I – Ibotenic Acid & Muscimol (Amanita muscaria, Amanita pantherina) – Acts like a “mushroom speedball”, causing both stimulant and sedative effects.

    C – Coprine (Coprinus spp., Inky Caps) – Induces disulfiram-like reaction with alcohol.

    E – Emetic Mushrooms (LBMs: Little Brown Mushrooms) – Various species that cause self-limited vomiting and diarrhea.

    M – Muscarine (Clitocybe, Inocybe spp.) – Cholinergic crisis (SLUDGE symptoms), similar to nerve agents.

    Ryan's Modified Mnemonic GOTTAAA PICCEM

    The GOTTA3 P2ICCEM Mnemonic (Ryan's Modification)

    Late-Onset (Severe) Toxic Mushrooms ("GOTTAA")

    These mushrooms have delayed symptoms (>6 hours) and are associated with significant toxicity:

    G – Gyromitrin (Gyromitra esculenta) – False morels; inhibits GABA, leading to seizures. While this is classically taught, newer data suggests its extremely rare, GI effects, with or without hepatoxicity or minor neurologic symptoms predominate

    O – Orellanine (Cortinarius spp.) – Causes renal failure; famously poisoned The Horse Whisperer author.

    T – Tricholoma equestre (Man on Horseback) – Leads to rhabdomyolysis.

    T- Tender nesting polypore (Hapalopilus rutilans) causes late GI effects, altered mental status, acidosis, and purple urine!

    A – Amatoxin (Amanita phalloides, Galerina spp.) – Causes liver failure; the most lethal mushroom toxicity.

    A- Acromelic Acid is found in Clitocybe acromelalga in Japan and C amoenolens in France causes erythromelalgia. It can be treated with IV nicotinic acid!

    Early Onset Nausea, Late Toxicity Mushrooms ("A²P²")

    A² – Allenic norleucine (Amanita smithiana) – Found in the Pacific Northwest; early GI symptoms followed by renal failure.

    These may present early but still cause significant toxicity.

    P² – Paxillus spp. – Can cause hemolytic anemia and multi-organ injury.

    Early-Onset Nausea Mushrooms ("PICCEM")

    P– Psilocybin (Psilocybe spp.) – Hallucinogenic, similar to LSD, typically low toxicity but may cause hyperthermia or seizures.

    Symptoms appear within 6 hours and are usually self-limited.

    I – Ibotenic Acid & Muscimol (Amanita muscaria, Amanita pantherina) – Acts like a “mushroom speedball”, causing both stimulant and sedative effects.

    C – Coprine (Coprinus spp., Inky Caps) – Induces disulfiram-like reaction with alcohol. Thee are actually many species that have been implciated here incuding Verpa bohemica (early morel) and Boletus luridus (luride bolete).

    C- Cholinergics (muscarine containing, Clitocybe, Inocybe spp.) Cholinergic crisis (SLUDGE symptoms), similar to nerve agents.

    E – Emetic Mushrooms (LBMs: Little Brown Mushrooms) – Various species that cause self-limited vomiting and diarrhea.

    M – Morchella (morels) while an edible delicacy, they must be thoroughly cooked, recently multiple deaths have been links to eating morels, and the exact mechanism of toxicity is unclear but they result in incredibly fast GI effects.

    18 min
  • Leafy Greens & Injured Beans: Natures Nephrotoxins – A Poison Lab & NephMadness Collaboration

    In this special collaboration with NephMadness, we're diving into the world of nephrotoxins with an expert panel from Virginia Commonwealth University. NephMadness is an educational competition modeled after March Madness, and this year, one of the featured regions focuses on plant-based nephrotoxins. Together, with our expert panel we break down the competing nephrotoxin teams: Tubular Toxins vs. Oxalate Offenders.

    Joining us are Dr. Anna Vinnokova (Nephrologist), Dr. Rachel Khan PharmD (Neph pharmacist), Dr. Ethan Downes (Nephrology fellow), and the legendary nephrotoxicologist, Dr. Josh King (Board certified Nephrologist and Toxicologist). We ALMOST named this episode "Getting Downe with the Mad Neph King and the Bean Queens"... but we didn't, your welcome.

    After the show, go to the blog and vote for your favorite!

    Expect irreverent musings, deep dives into toxic plant exposures, and a mystery case reveal that will leave you questioning your diet.

    Topics and Timeline of Episode:

    Intro

    Listener Guesses With Josh and Ryan– 8:30

    Listener Winner – 25:42

    NephMadness and Guest Introductions – 28:07

    Toxin Reveal – 33:41

    • NEJM Case report

    Tubular Toxins – 35:46

    • Aristolochic Acid & the Belgian Weight-Loss Clinic Outbreak – 40:30
    • Black Licorice & Its Surprising Toxic Effects – 47:16

    The Oxalate Offenders Team: How Dietary Oxalates Harm the Kidneys – 52:00

    • Historical Context: First recognized through sheep die-offs when herds grazed on Halogeton glomeratus, a high-oxalate plant, leading to fatal poisoning.
    • Oxalate in Plants: Functions to bind excess calcium in the soil.
    • Impact on the Body: Plants high in oxalate but low in calcium can contribute to oxalate accumulation, this leads to binding calcium in the blood, creating calcium oxalate crystals and acute renal calculi. Chronic inflammation from excess oxalate deposition leads to CKD progression.
    • High-Oxalate Foods: Spinach, Swiss chard, rhubarb, cashews. Everything in moderation!

    Practical Advice for Clinicians & Patients on Herbal Medicine Use – 1:00:00

    • Resources for identifying nephrotoxic herbal products
    • Talk to your patients non judgmentally, open conversations, discuss efficacy (or lack there of, see resources below) and safety
    • Herbal medicines are not FDA approved and may not contain what they claim to

    Herbals may not all be safe: Josh King Discovering Contaminants– 1:01:11

    Wrap up– 1:08

    Key Takeaways:

    • Aristolochic acid is a direct nephrotoxin, associated with progressive kidney damage and urothelial cancers.
    • Black licorice toxicity results from 11β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase inhibition, leading to excess cortisol activity, hypertension, potassium wasting, and rhabdomyolysis.
    • Regulatory gaps in herbal supplements can lead to unexpected toxicities, making consumer awareness essential.
    • High dietary oxalate intake increases the risk of kidney stone formation and chronic kidney disease.
    • NephMadness is open to everyone—vote for your favorite nephrotoxin team and join the conversation!

    Resources Mentioned:

    • NephMadness: Follow along and fill out your bracket!
    • AJKD Blog
    • National Kidney Foundation Herbal Medicine Guide
    • National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health (NCCIH)
    • Poison Control Center (Available 24/7 for toxicology questions): 1-800-222-1222

    Follow The Poison Lab:

    • Twitter: @LabPoison
    • Instagram: @tox_talk
    • Website: www.ThePoisonLab.com

    Don’t forget to rate and review the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred platform. Share this episode with your fellow nephrology and toxicology enthusiasts!

    Thanks for tuning in, and remember: If it sounds too good to be true, it might just be nephrotoxic. Stay safe and stay curious!

    1 hr 12 min
  • Should we Give Naloxone in Cardiac Arrest? Insights From the Authors of Three Key Studies

    Finally, the journal club to rule ALL journal clubs.

    In this episode of The Poison Lab, we tackle one of the biggest topics in emergency medicine and toxicology: Should naloxone be given during opioid-associated cardiac arrest? With three fantastic studies published in 2024, we’re diving into the data and hearing directly from the authors themselves.

    Join host Ryan Feldman as he interviews Dr. Eric Quinn, Dr. Joshua Lupton, and Dr. David Dillon, some of the minds behind the latest research exploring the role of naloxone in out-of-hospital cardiac arrest (OHCA). With perspectives ranging from clinical outcomes to practical implementation, this episode offers a deep dive into what these studies tell us—and what remains unanswered.

    But that’s not all! Featuring special guests Spencer Oliver and Chris Pfingston from EMS 2020, this roundtable discussion incorporates the real-world insights of prehospital EMS professionals who face these decisions every day. Together, the panel unpacks:

    • Conflicting evidence on naloxone’s impact on ROSC and survival.
    • The challenges of interpreting retrospective studies in a high-stakes setting.
    • Ethical dilemmas surrounding randomized trials for naloxone.
    • Practical considerations for paramedics and emergency physicians in the field.

    Whether you’re a toxicologist, EMS professional, or just curious about the intersection of drugs, overdose, and resuscitation, this episode is packed with actionable insights, expert opinions, and engaging discussions.

    Tune in now to explore the science, controversy, and future directions for naloxone in cardiac arrest care!

    Studies discussed in the show

    • Outcomes of Out-of-Hospital Cardiac Arrest Patients Who Receive Naloxone in an EMS System with a High Prevalence of Opioid Overdose – Dr. Eric Quinn.
    • Association of Early Naloxone Use with Outcomes in Nonshockable Out-of-Hospital Cardiac Arrest – Dr. Joshua Lupton.
    • Naloxone and Patient Outcomes in Out-of-Hospital Cardiac Arrest in Northern California – Dr. David Dillon.

    Studies and guidelines mentioned

    • Editorial by Dr. Lavonas on Dr. Lupton's study
    • AHA 2023 Guidelines for poisoning cardiac arrest
    • AHA 2021 Position statement on opioid overdose out of hospital cardiac arrest
    • Study of opioid overdose death after bystander naloxone training mentioned by Toxo

    Shows mentioned

    • Chris and Spencer's excellent EMS show
    • Ryan's Interview on Poisoning Cardiac Arrest Guidelines with Dr. Eric Lavonas
    • Journal club with Ryan and Dr. Dillon

    Timestamps and chaptersIntroduction (0:00–12:25)
    • Podcast Introduction
    • Overview of The Poison Lab and this episode’s focus.
    • Introduction of the Topic
    • Exploring naloxone use during out-of-hospital cardiac arrest (OHCA).
    • Introduction of Guests
    • Drs. Eric Quinn, Joshua Lupton, and David Dillon: authors of 2024 studies on naloxone in OHCA.
    • Spencer Oliver and Chris Phingston: paramedics and co-hosts of EMS 2020.

    Background (12:26–26:08)

    Rationale for Studying Naloxone in OHCA

    • Addressing the lack of evidence for naloxone use.
    • High prevalence of opioid overdoses in study regions.
    • EMS provider questions about naloxone’s role in suspected opioid-associated OHCA.

    Overview of Existing Guidelines and Research

    • 2021 AHA guidelines and scientific statement on opioid-associated OHCA.

    Challenges in Determining Opioid Overdose as the Cause of OHCA

    • Difficulties with pulse checks and drug testing limitations.

    Summary of the Three 2024 Studies

    • Dr. Quinn’s study: No significant benefit of naloxone.
    • Dr. Lupton’s study: Benefit in early naloxone use for non-shockable rhythms vs no or late naloxone.
    • Dr. Dillon’s study: Benefits of Naloxone in OOHCA, even in presumed non-drug-related OHCA cases.

    Discussion (26:09–48:31)

    Identifying Potential Opioid Overdose

    • Importance of scene cues and patient history.

    Study Methodologies and Confounding Factors

    • Age as a significant confounder.
    • Techniques used to control confounding (logistic regression, propensity score matching).

    Potential Benefits and Harms of Naloxone in OHCA

    • Risks of administering naloxone unnecessarily.
    • Ethical concerns about withholding naloxone in trials.
    • Broader physiological effects of naloxone.
    • Challenges with current CPR ventilation techniques and naloxone’s potential role in improving respiratory drive.

    Review of Current Guidelines

    • AHA: Consider naloxone for high-risk cases.
    • ILCOR: Does not recommend naloxone due to insufficient evidence.

    Future Directions and Conclusion (48:32–55:00)

    Need for a Randomized Controlled Trial (RCT)

    • Importance of defining naloxone’s role in OHCA.
    • Challenges in RCT design, including ethical concerns and patient selection.

    Final Takeaways

    • Cautious optimism, but more research needed.
    • Emphasis on standard ACLS protocols while awaiting further evidence.

    A Morel DilemmaSupport the show

    Review the show where ever your listening

    Get Messages from Toxo (Join the Newsletter!)

    Join as a supporting member

    • Ad free episodes
    • Bonus content and early access
    • Discounts and give aways on GOTA PICCEM Mushroom card game

    The GOTTA PICCEM Poisonous Mushroom Game!

    The Poisonus Fungus Amongus Children's Book!

    • Full book reading (6 minutes!)

    Tox trinkets (Rep the show at home!)

    Reach the show

    More Show Resources

    • Ryan's Medical Games and Resources
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    1 hr 9 min
  • The Poison Lab Holiday Bonus- Stump The Toxicologist Reel 2022

    In this special holiday bonus episode, Ryan takes a look back at some of the most captivating episodes of The Poison Lab from 2022. Get ready for an ultimate test of your toxicology differential diagnosis skills as we compile all the "Stump the Toxicologist" segments into one streamlined, binge-worthy episode. Explore eight unique poisoning cases, be sure to check the show notes for a description of each case. time stamp of where it begins, and links to the original episodes, where you can dive deeper into the discussions and unravel the mysteries behind these intriguing cases!

    Case Teasers and Time Stamps

    Episode 13, March 2nd, 2022: Dr. Howard Greller

    • 0:06:19 Case 1: A 19-year-old male collapses at home and presents to the ED unresponsive, tachycardic, and hypotensive, with a wide QRS complex on EKG and a serum lactate of 20.
    • 0:22:58 Case 2: A 16-year-old female presents to the ED 9 hours after ingesting 100 tablets of an unknown medication in a suicide attempt. She presents with vomiting, lethargy, bloody diarrhea, and a metabolic acidosis. An abdominal x-ray shows numerous radiopaque tablets in her GI tract. She is treated with a redacted antidote and whole bowel irrigation, but her condition worsens and she develops liver failure. She is transferred to a tertiary care center for a liver transplant, but recovers. On day 12, she develops a lower GI bleed and bowel perforation and dies.
    • 0:34:42 Case 3: A seven-month-old child presents with crying, cough, vomiting, and respiratory distress.
    • 0:37:42 Case 4: A 32-year-old male with a history of alcohol use and depression presents to the ED seven hours after ingesting two handfuls of an unknown medication and alcohol in a suicide attempt. He is initially anxious and tremulous, but has normal vital signs and labs, aside from an elevated ethanol level. He has a seizure nine hours after ingestion. His EKG shows a widened QRS, and he becomes hypotensive. He is intubated, placed on vasopressors, and undergoes extracorporeal membrane oxygenation (ECMO) and targeted temperature management (TTM), but dies three days later.

    Episode 15, July 6th, 2022: Dr. Josh Trebach

    • 0:46:11 Case 1: Two British medical students present to the ED after developing nausea, vomiting, paresthesias, myalgias, pruritus, and cold allodynia 12 hours after sharing a meal. Their neurological symptoms persisted for 4 weeks and the cold allodynia for 10 weeks.
    • 0:54:18 - 1:05:23 Case 2: A 16-year-old female presents to the ED unresponsive and cyanotic after intentionally ingesting a substance purchased online. Her oxygen saturation is in the 70s and a methemoglobin level is greater than 30%.
    • 1:05:25 - 1:10:18 Case 3: A 48-year-old female, and co-author of the published case report, presents to the ED 10 minutes after eating a “peppery” tuna steak. She is tachycardic, hypotensive, flushed, and has conjunctival erythema. She also experiences abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, headache, and chest pain. Her EKG shows tachycardia with ST depression. She requires phenylephrine to maintain her blood pressure. She is treated with famotidine and discharged from the hospital 43 hours later.
    • 1:10:20 – 1:13:16 Case 4: A 63-year-old female presents to the ED 12 hours after ingesting five capsules of a weight loss product. She is bradycardic and has nausea, vomiting, and hyperkalemia.

    Episode 17, November 9th, 2022: Dr. Emily Kieran

    • 1:16:35 Case 1: A 34-year-old female presents to a clinic in West Bengal, India, with a three-year history of skin changes. She has hypo-pigmented macules on a background of hyperpigmentation, creating a “raindrop” like appearance on her chest, hands, and soles.
    • 1:19:17 Case 2: An 85-year-old male with a history of Alzheimer’s dementia, COPD, and depression calls 911 for symptomatic hypoglycemia and goes into cardiac arrest after EMS mistakenly administers an unknown substance instead of dextrose 10% (D10). He is asystolic upon arrival to the ED, but achieves return of spontaneous circulation (ROSC) after receiving sodium bicarbonate and 100 mL of 20% intralipid. He subsequently develops wide-complex tachycardia, hypertension, and hypotension, and dies 12 hours later.
    • 1:25:05 Case 3: A 22-month-old female with no past medical history is found altered by a caretaker and brought to the ED. She is tachycardic, with a normal blood pressure and oxygen saturation. She does not respond to naloxone and a CT scan shows severe anoxic brain injury and herniation. She is treated with vasopressors and anticonvulsants, but is declared brain dead several days later.
    • 1:29:26 Case 4: A 45-year-old male with a history of hypertension presents to the ED with severe vomiting and diarrhea that began the morning after he ate two dozen oysters he had caught and cooked two days prior. He initially presents with tachycardia and borderline low blood pressure, but his labs are normal. He becomes increasingly confused over the next several hours and develops a tonic-clonic seizure. He has persistent neurological sequelae, including short-term memory loss, and is discharged from the hospital after 86 days.

    A Morel DilemmaSupport the show

    Review the show where ever your listening

    Get Messages from Toxo (Join the Newsletter!)

    Join as a supporting member

    • Ad free episodes
    • Bonus content and early access
    • Discounts and give aways on GOTA PICCEM Mushroom card game

    The GOTTA PICCEM Poisonous Mushroom Game!

    The Poisonus Fungus Amongus Children's Book!

    • Full book reading (6 minutes!)

    Tox trinkets (Rep the show at home!)

    Reach the show

    More Show Resources

    • Ryan's Medical Games and Resources
    • Show Website

    2 hr 3 min
  • What Should We Do About Forever Chemicals? With Dr John Downs (The Wizard of PFAS)

    Join host Ryan Feldman in an insightful episode of "The Poison Lab" as he sits down with Dr. John Downs, Director of the Virginia Poison Center, and one of the leading experts on per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances (PFAS), commonly known as "forever chemicals." Known for their persistence in the environment and human body, PFAS have raised significant public health concerns over the past few decades. Dr. Downs shares his journey through occupational medicine, toxicology, and public health, which uniquely positioned him to provide expertise on PFAS exposure, health risks, and ongoing regulatory efforts. Together, they delve into the origins, uses, and potential health effects of these ubiquitous compounds, while examining government policies, environmental impact, and strategies to reduce exposure. A must-listen for anyone interested in the intersection of environmental health and toxicology!

    Episode Breakdown:

    • 2:42 – What Are Forever Chemicals?
    • 8:01 – History of PFAS and Associated Health Concerns
    • 15:41 – Government Regulation of PFAS
    • 20:42 – Shortcomings in PFAS Regulation
    • 25:20 – How Individuals Can Mitigate Risk
    • 31:15 – Testing for PFAS Levels and Exploring Treatment Options
    • 41:14 – Future Directions and Research Needs for PFAS
    • 45:29 – Conclusion and Outro

    Key Topics Discussed

    2:42 – What Are Forever Chemicals?

    • PFAS are a large group of man-made chemicals that are persistent in the environment and human body.
    • The podcast focuses primarily on PFOA (perfluorooctanoic acid) and PFOS (perfluorooctanoic sulfonic acid), as these were the first compounds identified as having very long elimination half-lives, measured in years, and not undergoing significant human metabolism
    • The podcast mentions that there are potentially thousands of different PFAS compounds and that more research is needed to determine if they all induce the same health effects as PFOA and PFOS
    • Commonly used for their water- and oil-resistant properties in nonstick cookware, fast food wrappers, firefighting foams, and more.

    8:01 – History of PFAS and Associated Health Concerns

    • First created by Dupont chemical, used widely in 1940's in Teflon
    • Large contamination of water by PFAS identified in West Virginia town
    • Led to landmark study in West Virginia (the C8 study) on epidemiological data of PFAS-related health risks.
    • Effects noted: High cholesterol, thyroid dysfunction, ulcerative colitis, hypertension in pregnancy, decreased immune response to vaccine, and certain cancers (testicular and kidney cancer).

    PFAS in the Environment

    • PFAS are not easily degraded, leading to bioaccumulation in humans and animals.
    • Non-stick cookware: Teflon, the trade name for non-stick cookware, was one of the earliest applications of PFAS, utilizing PFOA.
    • Firefighting foam: PFAS was used in firefighting foams, particularly for aviation fuel fires. This has led to contamination of groundwater around military installations and airports.
    • Fast food wrappers and other consumer products: PFAS are used to make products water and oil resistant, including fast food wrappers, clothing, upholstery, and popcorn bags.
    • Biosolids: The nitrogenous waste produced after wastewater treatment, have been found to contain concentrated PFAS. These biosolids are sometimes sold to farms as fertilizer, potentially contaminating water and crops.
    • Ski wax: Ski waxers have been found to have a high degree of PFAS exposure10.
    • Major sources contaminated drinking water, military bases, and consumer product (Teflon, waterproof jackets, popcorn bags etc...)

    15:41 – Government Regulation of PFAS

    • EPA Health Advisory Limits (2009): These were the first non-enforceable limits set for PFOA and PFOS in drinking water. These limits were revised several times over the next 15 years, becoming progressively lower.
    • EPA Enforceable Limits (2024): The EPA published its final rule for enforceable limits, known as maximum contaminant levels (MCLs), in April 2024.
    • The goal is for PFOA and PFOS to be completely non-detectable in drinking water
    • Recognizing that non-detect is difficult to achieve, the EPA set an MCL of 4 parts per trillion for both PFOA and PFOS.
    • A combined limit of 10 parts per trillion was set for four other unspecified PFAS compounds.

    Practical Steps for Individuals

    • Tips for reducing personal PFAS exposure, such as using alternative cookware, avoiding certain fast-food packaging, and considering home water filtration.

    The Future of PFAS Management

    • Ongoing need for more research to fully understand PFAS health impacts and develop effective mitigation strategies.
    • He discusses potential alternatives to PFAS and the importance of balancing industrial needs with public health concerns.

    Additional Resources

    • Books: Exposure by Rob Bilott (inspiration for the film Dark Waters)
    • CDC and EPA websites for information on PFAS and water quality testing
    • Dr. Downs guidance from the American College of Medical Toxicology

    1 hr 16 min
  • Poison Updates: Newsletter, Poison Ads?, and Guest Spots on 22 at the Lips and The Continuing Studies Podcast

    Ryan on others shows

    • Ryan on "22 at the Lips"
    • Ryan on "Continuing Studies"

    A Morel DilemmaSupport the show

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    • Discounts and give aways on GOTA PICCEM Mushroom card game

    The GOTTA PICCEM Poisonous Mushroom Game!

    The Poisonus Fungus Amongus Children's Book!

    • Full book reading (6 minutes!)

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    More Show Resources

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    13 min

About The Poison Lab

From the publisher's feed

Dive into the captivating world of poisons with The Poison Lab! Hosted by Clinical Toxicologist Ryan Feldman (@EMPoisonPharmD), who has over a decade of managing poisoning and drug overdose via poison…

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