269. Questions for More Connection and Laughter in Marriage with Casey and Meygan Caston
*Disclaimer* This episode contains some mature themes and listener discretion is advised.
2 Corinthians 1:4 NIRV "He comforts us in all our troubles. Now we can comfort others when they are in trouble. We ourselves receive comfort from God."
Questions and Topics We Cover:
Casey and Meygan Caston are the Co-Founders of Marriage365. Casey and Meygan were perfect examples of what not to do in marriage. Three years into marriage, they found themselves having racked up more than $250,000 in debt, fighting constantly, and were ready to call it quits. Despite the 12 failed marriages between their parents, they knew this wasn't the legacy they wanted for themselves or their children. They began reading and educating themselves on how to do marriage the right way. The result of their journey is Marriage365, where they millions of people worldwide through their books, social media, retreats, and their online streaming service, Marriage365.
Thank You to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage
Sample of Previous Episodes on Sexual Intimacy on The Savvy Sauce:
4 Fostering a Fun, Healthy Sex Life With Your Spouse With Certified Sex Therapist and Author, Dr. Jennifer Konzen
5 Ways to Deepen Your Intimacy in Marriage with Dr. Douglas Rosenau
6 Ten Common Questions About Sex, Shared Through a Biblical Worldview with Dr. Michael Sytsma
89 Passion Pursuit with Dr. Juli Slattery
108 Anatomy of an Affair with Dave Carder
135 Healthy Ways for Females to Increase Sexual Enjoyment with Tracey LeGrand
155 Sex in Marriage and Its Positive Effects with Francie Winslow, Part 1
156 Science and Art of Sexual Intimacy in Marriage, Part 2
158 Making Love in Marriage with Debra Fileta
165 Mutually Pleasing Sex in Marriage with Gary Thomas
186 Sex Series: Enhancing Female Pleasure and Enjoyment of Sex: An Interview with Dr. Jennifer Degler
218 Secrets of Sex and Marriage: An Interview with Dr. Michael Sytsma
Special Patreon Release: Protecting Your Marriage Against Unfaithfulness with Dave Carder
252 Maximizing Sexual Connection as Newlyweds to Long Term Marriages and Recovering from a Sexless Marriage with Dr. Clifford & Joyce Penner
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
Laura Dugger: (0:12 - 1:15)
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
Today's message is not intended for little ears. We'll be discussing some adult themes, and I want you to be aware before you listen to this message.
I'm thrilled to introduce you to our sponsor, WinShape Marriage. Their weekend marriage retreats will strengthen your marriage while you enjoy the gorgeous setting, delicious food, and quality time with your spouse.
To find out more, visit them online at winshapemarriage.org.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Casey and Meygan.
Thanks for having us. Excited to be here.
Laura Dugger: So, thrilled to have both of you, and let's just dive right into one of your sweet spots. How can open-ended questions change a marriage?
Casey Caston: (1:16 - 2:33)
Yeah, well, if you think about when we first met somebody that we fell in love with, fell attracted to that first date, as you're sitting across the table, you are looking at that person with so much curiosity. Like, who is this person? What are their hopes and their dreams and their life experiences?
What are they afraid of? Where are they going in life? And that curiosity drove us to ask really good open-ended questions.
Like, tell me more about yourself. It's funny because we were just reading in Proverbs this morning that in a man's heart, he has a purpose, but a man of understanding draws from the deep wells to pull that out. And I just, I always think about how a great question plums the deep wells of a man's heart or woman's heart.
And that attraction, that energy we feel, helps us with asking great questions. But then what happens is when we get married and we move into the wash, rinse, repeat of childcare and chores and, you know, the mundaneness of going to work, coming home, dinner, like, it can really sap all of the romance out of a relationship. And so, what happens is we fall into asking really boring questions.
Meygan Caston: (2:33 - 2:34)
Casey Caston: (2:34 - 2:36)
What's picking up the kids?
Meygan Caston: (2:36 - 2:37)
Casey Caston: (2:38 - 3:18)
So, we realize that when the well is dry, so to speak, you're not asking those great questions. We need prompts. We need an outside prompt because I don't think naturally we would ask great questions to spark this, you know, connecting conversation.
And I will tell you too, that if you just dropped in and, you know, just ask your spouse, like, “Hey, so, tell me some boundaries we need to set up with your parents.” People are going to be like, “Excuse me, where did that question come from? And what's the question behind the question?
What's your motivation here?” But those are conversations we need to have. We just need prompts.
Laura Dugger: (3:19 - 3:32)
Well, I love that response. And I'm also curious after working with so many married couples, what have you seen as that connection between these amazing prompts for open-ended questions and emotional intimacy?
Meygan Caston: (3:34 - 4:20)
Yeah. Well, kind of like what Casey was mentioning about, um, just that curiosity of getting to know each other. I think the other part of asking those open-ended questions and having these deeper conversations is really about intentionality.
Like you still care about me. You still want to know about my heart. Well, for us, 25 years later, I still care about you.
I still love you. And I think that of course, as women, we long for that emotional connection. And I don't think that men realize it, but they actually long for that too.
And it's creating a safe place for spouses to share, to cry, to even, um, dream together about their future. And I think, again, if we don't give ourselves those opportunities and we're not intentional with that, we get stuck in the mundaneness of marriage.
Casey Caston: (4:20 - 5:03)
But, uh, and I would add to that, that curiosity, Meygan, I've talked about how curiosity is the pursuit of something. Right. And we all long to be desired to be pursued.
I mean, that is, that underlying communication is so powerful in relationships, because if you think about it, if you're not being pursued and your spouse isn't curious, I mean, that's like the, the heart of apathy. It's like, I don't care. And I know that people aren't intentionally trying to communicate that, but when you feel that, like my spouse doesn't really care about what I dream about or what I'm hoping to achieve this year, they just come home and they just watch TV or they're on their phone.
Meygan Caston: (5:04 - 5:18)
Right. That communicates a lot non-verbally. And so, that's why these open-ended questions are something that we should never stop being a learner of each other and of ourselves.
And that will provide that emotional intimacy.
Laura Dugger: (5:19 - 5:45)
That's so good. And obviously your resources are amazing. I would love, because you have these 365 Connecting Questions for Couples.
And so, I want to just hear maybe three of these questions that come to mind for you guys, especially as you've heard, these are the ones that tend to unlock something deeper in the conversation.
Meygan Caston: (5:46 - 6:07)
Absolutely. So, August 3rd is, are you someone who spends a lot of time in deep thought, processing things before making a decision, or do you tend to make quick decisions? Why or why not?
That question has genuinely sparked so much conversation between us and even like with our kids and other couples. Maybe you can explain why.
Casey Caston: (6:07 - 6:11)
Yeah. Well, I'm Mr. Impulsivity, so.
Meygan Caston: (6:11 - 6:29)
Yeah, you are. Where I, I don't, I wouldn't consider myself a deep thinker, but I definitely like to make pros and cons lists and think through things. But if you think about a dynamic between a husband and a wife, you know, there are so many decisions that you make together, small and large, your whole life, every day.
Casey Caston: (6:29 - 6:30)
Decision-making is huge in relationships.
Meygan Caston: (6:31 - 6:57)
And it's an everyday thing that couples are tackling. And it's important to know that no one is better than the other. It's not that a deep thinker is better than a more impulsive person.
It's kind of more just naturally how you are. Have you always been this way? Do you like that about yourself?
Wow. You know, well, when it comes to these bigger decisions, I do spend, make more time, you know, thinking through and pros and cons. Oh, well, with small decisions, I'm more impulsive.
I mean, you could just talk about that for hours and hours.
Casey Caston: (6:57 - 7:01)
Yeah. But what's interesting is I tend to think more futuristic and big picture.
Meygan Caston: (7:01 - 7:01)
Casey Caston: (7:01 - 7:03)
Even though I'm impulsive in the moment.
Meygan Caston: (7:03 - 7:05)
And I cannot, I can't do that.
Casey Caston: (7:05 - 7:06)
Meygan Caston: (7:06 - 7:08)
Just tell me today, tell me this week.
Casey Caston: (7:09 - 7:10)
I can't think about this fun sponge.
Meygan Caston: (7:11 - 7:11)
Casey Caston: (7:12 - 7:15)
Because I'm like, let's dream big. And she's like, yeah, but what's happening today?
Meygan Caston: (7:16 - 7:49)
Yeah. Yeah. Another great question is January 18th.
How can we romance each other during the day in anticipation of sex? Because as we all know, us ladies, we need the foreplay. But again, I think that husbands also enjoy the foreplay.
But I don't think that couples are having these conversations. I think they think a foreplay is, well, once we enter into the bedroom, you know, and what we like to say is it's anything positive is foreplay. So, a thoughtful text, you know, a flirty I'm going to grab your hand to empty out the dishwasher.
Casey Caston: (7:49 - 7:50)
Meygan Caston: (7:50 - 7:55)
Yeah. You know, it's those kinds of conversations. But like, I would never think of asking you that.
Casey Caston: (7:56 - 7:56)
Meygan Caston: (7:56 - 7:58)
Right. Thankfully for those.
Casey Caston: (7:58 - 8:10)
But as you know, Laura, like couples that need to talk about their sex life. And if you don't talk about your sex life, most oftentimes there's a lot of assumptions. And that leads to, you know, dysfunction.
Meygan Caston: (8:11 - 9:14)
Well, and missed expectations. Totally. Yeah.
Oh, so, kind of another one of those things, like with making decisions. Every single couple has differences. And we always tell people Casey, and I are more different than alike.
I think people see us online and whatnot. And they hear, oh, we're both extroverts. We are.
So, we have some similarities. We're both stubborn, very competitive, both competitive. But in the day-to-day operations of who Casey and Meygan are, we make decisions, we run our lives, run our business, run our business.
We are completely opposite. And what I think it's good to do for couples is to actually own your differences rather than shy away from them or make yourselves feel bad, like, oh, I wish we were the same. I get it.
You know, we actually are attracted to those things when we're dating. That's why opposites attract. But then when we get married, it's like, why doesn't he do everything the same way?
I do it because I do it the right way. That's what we think. Right.
Casey Caston: (9:15 - 9:21)
Well, you heard the joke that marriage is about becoming one. And in the earlier years, it's about which one.
Meygan Caston: (9:21 - 10:14)
Yeah. Which one? Which figure out?
Yeah. And so, that question really allows you to identify your differences, but then go, how do they balance each other out? And I think for me, as someone who is organized, type A Casey's very spontaneous.
If we were both type A and structured, we wouldn't have a lot of fun. We really wouldn't. His spontaneity really brings out that side of me.
But if we were both spontaneous, our bills would never be paid, and we'd be broke. So, you know, I'm a I'm a saver. He's a spender.
You can see the balance in that. It's good that we're both those things. Right.
I'm on time. He's late. We could continue going on and on and on and on.
But I think that he's a risk taker. I'm a complete play it safer. And so, those really draw out a beautiful balance in our marriage versus trying to change one another.
So, I hope that question sparks listeners to really ask your spouse that and have fun with the conversation.
Laura Dugger: (10:15 - 11:03)
Well, you chose three great ones. I love it. And they draw out such different parts of our personality.
You highlighted where Casey's more futuristic. Meygan, you're more present. Some people will connect with questions that direct them more past oriented.
And so, our orientation to time comes out and the meta conversations, the talking like having the conversation about your conversation. Just so much goodness. And yes, especially with sexual intimacy.
So, many couples report that it is much harder to engage in conversation about sex rather than just have sex. And like you said, missed expectations can be one of the blow ups there, among many other things. So, you have questions that don't shy away from all forms of intimacy.
Meygan Caston: (11:04 - 11:10)
Yeah. And to also say we have a lot of fun questions, too. Like, tell me about what your bedroom looked like when you were a teenager.
Casey Caston: (11:11 - 11:12)
That's a great one. I love that one.
Meygan Caston: (11:12 - 11:47)
Let's talk couples. If you had a really hard day with the kids or at work, pick a fun question. You don't have to go by the date.
If you don't like the question, it's triggering, then flip to the next one. But going back to that emotional intimacy and connection that you were talking about, Laura, is you have to have those deep questions and those conversations. And you did when you were dating, because if you went on a date with your husband and you were like, hey, tell me, you know, what do you want to do when you retire?
And he was like, I don't know. Yeah, you'd be like snooze fest. This guy's boring, right?
Or if he was on his phone the whole time, there was something intriguing about your spouse.
Casey Caston: (11:47 - 11:48)
I don't know. I don't know.
Meygan Caston: (11:48 - 12:01)
Yeah, there was something intriguing about your spouse when you were dating and you were asking those questions that should never stop. Just like we hear that quote, never stop dating your spouse. Well, never stop learning about your spouse.
It's the same thing. Absolutely.
Laura Dugger: (12:02 - 12:16)
And I love how you two have such a humble approach because you say that you're a very unlikely couple to help support marriages. So, will you let us in on your own backstory?
Meygan Caston: (12:17 - 12:46)
Yeah, well, can I just start off by saying this? We live in a county that has one of the highest divorce rates in the nation. So, it's 72 percent divorce rate where we live.
We also come from there's 12 marriages between our parents. So, we come from so much divorce and trauma. And then we also got married very, very, very young.
So, all those statistics were against us on top of that. I'm just going to start off by saying that.
Casey Caston: (12:46 - 13:18)
Yeah, my mom's been married six times. So, when by the time I hit junior high, I had probably like nine different iterations of home life and different dads and step siblings and half brothers. And all of that between both of our parents.
There's just there's some mental illness. There's affairs. There's all this trauma that was really unprocessed.
But then when Meygan and I saw each other, it was like we knew the wounds that we shared. It was like almost like a trauma bond.
Meygan Caston: (13:19 - 13:19)
Casey Caston: (13:19 - 14:08)
Like, oh, I've got abandonment. So, do you. And, you know, let's do it's like, wow.
So, let's make each other happy. And dating was just all the fun stuff, right? It was long walks along the beach.
It was going to street fairs or, you know, going out and having fun. And then we're like, if this is what life could be like, then we should do this forever and ever and ever. And just, you know, we were so doe eyed of like and optimistic about how marriage life would look like.
So, then once we did get married, done, done, done, we had to like work through stuff. Now, I was so conflict avoidant because I was afraid if there was conflict, then that means that there's going to be distance between Meygan and I and she might leave me.
Meygan Caston: (14:08 - 14:24)
Oh, there's another there's another difference. I'm a fighter. He's a fighter.
So, anytime we would have conflict triggers, you know, emotional regulation, I was like, we're going to go for it. Now, of course, my fighting tactics were not healthy. I yelled.
I blamed. I was very aggressive, assertive.
Casey Caston: (14:24 - 14:37)
Conflict was very scary for me. Now. Now, Meygan, she's like wanting to deal with issues.
And here I am, like trying to run for the hills. And she's like, he doesn't care about me. And I'm like, I'm trying to protect the marriage by not dealing with it.
Meygan Caston: (14:37 - 14:49)
So, you never really resolved anything. We would fight really bad. We broke all the fighting rules.
And then there was no true resolve, no apologies, no remorse. And you just kind of move forward.
Casey Caston: (14:49 - 15:06)
And so, then we piled ourselves like we had over two hundred fifty thousand dollars of debt when we started to try to work on getting pregnant. We we dealt with infertility. We I have ADHD, so that creates a lot of that's fun.
A lot of fun for the marriage.
Meygan Caston: (15:06 - 15:08)
The divorce rate is very high with ADHD.
Casey Caston: (15:08 - 15:10)
My life gets to teach you patience.
Meygan Caston: (15:11 - 15:11)
Casey Caston: (15:12 - 16:44)
But and then we have a child with special needs as well. So, we we had like if there's something that could go wrong, it it went wrong. We had you know, once we got married, there was toxic in-laws that boundaries that were crossed.
So, it just nothing for us came easy. And so, that's why we were the least likely to succeed in marriage. I mean, if we there was a couple doomed from the get go, it was Meygan and I believe a hundred percent that God used those trials, those hardships to create marriage.
Three sixty five. He gave us the strength to, you know, have the courage to say we're not going to follow in our parents footsteps. We're going to change that.
You know, it ends with us literally like we are going to change and break this generational sin because it goes back many, many generations for both of us. Our whole family is littered with divorce. And now like when we approach marriage, it because of where we've come from, it wasn't all flowery.
It was really tough. We have to be practical and very tactical with our advice, because when you're sitting across from a couple that's angry and resentful. We have to sit there and go, we know what that's like.
And here's exactly what you need to do next. I'm not going to give you a platitude. I'm not going to give you some flowery statement or we're not going to just talk through it.
No, we're going to give you a tool and an action step that's going to help you.
Laura Dugger: (16:46 - 18:56)
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I'd love to hear even more into the redemption part of it, because Marriage 365, you had shared before we had recorded that you launched that in 2013. So, just to get the timeline straight, had you already done some work and some counseling before you launched that?
Meygan Caston: (18:56 - 19:26)
Or what was that journey? Yeah, so, we always say we it took us two years to fall in love and get married. It took us three years to destroy our marriage, and it took about four or five years to repair our marriage.
It was, as you know, Laura, it is not a quick fix when your marriage is as bad as ours. And so, our story is unique in the sense where we were both not wanting to get help for our marriage. I love you, babe, but he was resistant.
He didn't want to go to therapy. His family didn't go to therapy. That wasn't normalized.
Casey Caston: (19:26 - 19:31)
Well, my faith background said that therapy is bad from the from the devil.
Meygan Caston: (19:31 - 19:38)
It was specifically your parents. But from the devil. Yeah, because I have a faith background, too. And my parents went to therapy. But that's what I was saying.
Casey Caston: (19:38 - 19:40)
My background was that you don't do that.
Meygan Caston: (19:40 - 21:16)
Yeah. So, I was wanting to get divorced and he wouldn't divorce me. He was like, no.
So, if you're going to do it, you got to do it. And so, I got help for myself. And I had the most amazing woman who a therapist who just walked me through basically how to save my marriage by myself.
And she goes, listen, you know, at the end of the day, if you want to make a better marriage, it starts by making a better you. You have zero control over Casey. You have 100 percent control over you.
He's not here. You are. I can show you how to communicate, how to forgive him even without getting an apology.
I can show you how to bring to his defenses down. I can show you how to create boundaries so he doesn't yell at you anymore. I mean, and that's literally for 13 months I worked on myself.
And I believe that that is what genuinely changed everything. And that's really the message behind Marriage 365 is if you want to make a better marriage, it starts by making a better you. Stop waiting around for your husband or your wife to get on board.
They may never. Then you're only going to build resentment while you sit there and wait. At the end of the day, you're responsible for how you show up.
And so, in that 13 months, the hope was, of course, that I would positively influence Casey, which I did. And he saw the change in me. Everything changed.
I mean, like we both used to be yellers, right? We would both yell and scream. And I was like, I'm not going to yell anymore.
Like, I just I don't want to be a yeller of a mom. I don't want to be a yeller of a wife. Like, I don't like this part of me. My mom was a yeller. I mean, oh, yeah, I hate this. And I just remember like one day he came walking in and he was all heated and frustrated and he started yelling at me. And do you remember what I did, babe?
Casey Caston: (21:17 - 21:33)
Yeah. She looked at me and calmly said, you know, I can tell that you're very upset. I really want to have to listen to what you want to share with me.
Why don't you go outside, take a break, come back in? We're going to sit back on the couch. We can talk about it. I'm here for you. And I was like, what a change.
Meygan Caston: (21:33 - 22:07)
Who is this person? I changed the way that we did marriage. I did that.
And I tell people that I didn't do that once. I didn't do it twice. I did that for months because we had habits we had created.
But I was like, that was like a new boundary. I'm like, I'm not going to engage with him when he's angry. It's been triggered.
Nothing good is coming from this. So, it was all of that we started to really adopt and learn together because he's like, you're a different person. Like, it was obvious we were doing the tango.
And now I was doing the rumba and he was over there doing the tango. And I'm like, come join me in the healthy rumba over here because it's way better.
Casey Caston: (22:07 - 22:09)
Meygan Caston: (22:09 - 23:20)
Yeah, we went to a marriage. Yeah, we went to a marriage intensive. And we did some therapy.
We did a lot of self-help. But through that journey, this is kind of where we started Marriage 365 is. First off, we couldn't afford therapy.
We needed to pay off all that debt that we had with a lot of student loan debt, a lot of stupid debt. What do you do if you can't afford therapy? What do you do if you don't have a good therapist?
What do you do if you have a bad experience with therapy? What do you do if the books aren't enough? And that was there was a really big hole and missing part in the marriage.
I don't say industry, but in the marriage space, where were all the online resources? Because this was back again in like 2010 when like podcasts weren't even around, social media was just becoming a thing. And it was really hard.
We were really disappointed with the lack of resources there were for marriage. And it felt like every church you go to, there was, you know, the missions ministry and the children's ministry and the youth groups. And all those are great.
Where in the world are all the marriage ministries? Then we found out only 3% of churches have actual paid marriage ministries. And I thought, that's messed up.
That's reverse. It's supposed to be the opposite, because then everything else will work itself out, as we know, with what research shows.
Casey Caston: (23:20 - 23:21)
Same with men's ministry, by the way.
Meygan Caston: (23:21 - 23:22)
Yes, same with men's ministry.
Casey Caston: (23:22 - 23:23)
Meygan Caston: (23:23 - 23:26)
That's like the stepchild.
Casey Caston: (23:26 - 23:33)
Tech guy slash men's guy slash, you know. Children's persons can also do marriage.
Meygan Caston: (23:33 - 23:40)
So, we really just started helping our friends out. Obviously, people could see the change. Then people would come to us. We started helping couples at our church.
Casey Caston: (23:40 - 23:48)
And we had a ghoul pool. Like people were like, we give you guys another like ten months and then we're expecting you.
Meygan Caston: (23:48 - 23:51)
Yeah, everyone that knew us thought we'd get divorced.
Casey Caston: (23:51 - 23:52)
Meygan Caston: (23:52 - 23:58)
We were bad. Yeah. So, to see the complete transformation. And again, I go back to that work we did was on ourselves.
Casey Caston: (23:58 - 25:31)
And I just have to say that if you want to make a better marriage, it starts by making a better you. If you're hearing that. And you're kind of in a one sided marriage right now, I got to just say, I know that message sucks because it's a message that says you have to go first.
And that's not fair. In a marriage, you're supposed to be a team. But I do want to say there's so many couples that are stuck.
Waiting for their spouse to join them on the let's get healthy train. So, their spouse doesn't join them. And then what they do is they kind of lean back, fold their arms and go, well, I guess we're stuck.
But I want to say that that's there is a message of empowerment to say you do have influence and the ability to steer your marriage in a healthy way. I have lots of regret that I did not join that train much sooner. But the story is that Meygan, you know, became the hero of our journey.
And that is something that I work actively so that I'm never in that place again, that I am the one that's always actively trying to improve myself, that I'm a better communicator, that I'm not a yeller, which we've ditched that a long time ago, that that I'm considered of Meygan's needs. And I'm even like attuned to like, what is she feeling? And how do I meet her where she's at?
Laura Dugger: (25:32 - 25:54)
Which is amazing that watching Meygan, it was compelling enough for you to join in. And it's admirable on both sides, the work that you've done. And are there any specific areas that you grew in that now you teach couples? I'm thinking specifically under conflict and repair or communication.
Casey Caston: (25:55 - 27:42)
Yeah. So, I remember those early years and every single week was chaos to chaos. Like coming home, it'd be like, what's for dinner?
I'm hungry and we need to make a decision now. Or, you know, it's Friday night or Saturday morning. What's going on this weekend?
Or where's all our money going? It was very, it was very reactionary. And I remember reading through Stephen Covey's, you know, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People.
And the first habit is be proactive. You cannot be intentional with your life. You cannot create purpose and meaning unless you are proactive with your life.
So, Meygan and I, you know, I'm working in a company and every single week we get together and we go through what are everyone's goals? What do we need to accomplish this week? We find alignment and the week goes really well.
We've got KPIs. We've got all these like, hey, as a team, you know, work team, here's what we're trying to accomplish this week. And it just kind of dawned on us like, well, why don't we do that in marriage?
Why don't we do that for a family? You got a family of six. You got six people running around the house.
All have agendas. And you are trying to find alignment so that, hey, this is what the family is all about this week, right? We've got tournaments.
We've got parties. We've got projects. We've got meals.
And I think for so many couples we talk to, they live. Life with purpose on like building their career or their business or purpose with other areas of their life. And then when it comes to family, they wing it.
Meygan Caston: (27:42 - 27:43)
Casey Caston: (27:43 - 28:31)
Yeah. And it's like, well, if it's meant to be, it's meant to be. It's the winging attitude creates chaos.
And so, Meygan and I love to teach this tool called the Weekly Marriage Business Meeting. And it is all of the logistics of our relationship schedules, meal plans, budgets, connection time, sexy time, alone time, self-care time. Yeah.
And and we kind of set with intention the week ahead for us. And we go through all the decisions of who's going, what, where, when. And all of that's done.
So, when you walk into the day, you're not like stressed about what's supposed to be happening. There is alignment and there's no missed expectations.
Meygan Caston: (28:31 - 29:27)
Yeah, there's no fights anymore about, well, you said you'd be home at six. No, I didn't. I said I'd be home at seven.
We sync our calendars. And I think, too, a big thing with this is we've noticed we fight when we don't do this now. It's one of those tools that it's prevented most of conflict.
I mean, we say it will on average for the most couples that use it. We have at least over 10,000 couples we know right now currently using it that are our members that they say it cuts conflict in half in half, because what you're doing is you're even scheduling that connection time or date night time where you're like, no matter how busy we are, when are Casey and Meygan going to get to be Casey and Meygan?
And that's so important, because again, if you're winging it and you're just trying to find time to connect, well, you've got four kids, we've got two teenagers. It's never going to happen. Right. And so, the weekly marriage business meeting is definitely one of the amazing and favorite worksheets and tools that we've taught and that we use ourselves because it works.
Casey Caston: (29:28 - 29:28)
Laura Dugger: (29:28 - 29:59)
What a game changer. That is awesome and so practical, so intentional, which we're all about. But then also we had talked about emotional intimacy earlier and emotional intimacy is interconnected with sexual intimacy and communication is the root issue.
And that's what you teach couples. So, what are some conversations that couples can begin so that they can grow in both of those types of intimacy and enjoyment?
Casey Caston: (30:01 - 31:34)
Yeah, so, I feel like I have to start off by saying I got this so wrong when we were first married. It's OK. I forgive you now.
Yeah, because, you know. Let's just let's be we'll be we'll be completely transparent. So, Meygan and I waited to have sex until we were married.
So, now I actually waited till I was married to have sex. And I thought that under that purity guideline, I was promised maybe by a youth group, maybe by a convention, that if you withhold sex and remain pure, God is going to bless you with the best sex life when you're married. And that just simply did not happen.
Like when we first got married, I really got went into the bedroom thinking. I don't know what foreplay is, but let's have intercourse until I come and then we're done. And that's sex.
That's our sexual intimacy. And we missed out on so many intimate ways of knowing each other and sex being an obligation and something like I just was demanding of it from Meygan. And.
What I've come to discover and what I love to teach other men is that sex is so much more broader than just having intercourse. I mean, there was this total understanding like, well, I feel good during intercourse. This feels very stimulating, which means that Meygan must feel the exact same way while we're having intercourse.
Meygan Caston: (31:35 - 31:35)
Casey Caston: (31:36 - 32:35)
Because that's because listen, I never had sex before. But anytime I watched a rom com, you know, the guy threw up, you know, against the wall or they're having intercourse and she's going and he's going and they're having a great time. Like this must be what sex is all about.
And what I've discovered now and I get to teach other men is that emotional intimacy is kind of the birthplace of sexual expression of love, right? That we we create safe places for our wives to to open up. And because of that, they become more willing and wanting that that sexual expression rather than us just coming in and saying, OK, it's time for sex.
Let's go. And so, when we talk about just this book, this 365 Connecting Questions for Couples, I tell my guys, I'm like, hey, if you want to have great sex, start here because that is foreplay.
Meygan Caston: (32:35 - 33:48)
That's start here. It's good to know my heart, not just use me for my body, which can feel like that for a lot of people. And I think going back to the emotional intimacy, I think that, again, you had that when you were dating or you wouldn't have gotten married.
There was no way you were. If the person was boring, closed off, if, you know, your spouse was just completely on their phone every time, you wouldn't have had that second, third, fourth date. So, there was emotional intimacy at some point, which means you can't ever say we never had it.
You can always get it back, but you can have to be intentional. And I think a great way is we call it connection time. I think date night scares a lot of people.
I think it's the idea of. We have to go to a restaurant, we have to spend money, we have to find a babysitter, all these hurdles that you have to go through to make it happen, so then couples just don't even do it. So, we're like, listen, if you if that's overwhelming to you, then try connection time.
And really what that is, it's still undivided, you know, attention and time with you and your spouse. Maybe it's smaller, maybe it's 15 minutes, 30 minutes. And I know for when our kids were little, we played board games and card games and they'd go to bed, you know, at 7:30 or 8:00 PM.
And we would bring out Yahtzee.
Casey Caston: (33:48 - 33:51)
There'd be a lot of trash talking over chutes and ladders.
Meygan Caston: (33:52 - 34:29)
But we would play. We would play games. And it was our time to connect.
And when we didn't talk about the kids, you know, we just chatted about our day and again, going through some of these connecting questions that didn't even really exist yet, but they were in our heads. Taking a walk with the dog and, you know, going to a little local coffee shop, even if it's just 30 minutes and sharing and talking and exploring that emotional intimacy should never stop again. And that's going to give people opportunities to then go into the bedroom, like Casey mentioned, more willing and more excited to be intimate to each other because it's like, oh, that's right.
We like each other. We're still married. We're still friends.
Casey Caston: (34:29 - 35:15)
You bring up a great point. Like I said, I think sitting down over the table, staring at each other can be intimidating for a lot of guys, because especially if this is not a regular habit in your relationship and taking a walk for guys when we're doing something and maybe it's less intimidating because we're not even staring at each other. But that kind of like getting the, you know, oxytocin going, like getting moving, like that kind of adrenaline can actually stimulate guys for good conversations and processing things.
And so, what we hear from a lot of couples that take our book, maybe they'll take a picture of the question and they'll go, Hey, let's take a walk. And then they'll use the question on their walk.
Meygan Caston: (35:15 - 35:15)
Casey Caston: (35:15 - 35:24)
And that gets conversations going. So, if that's like a on ramp onto this, that's a that's a great starting point for a lot of people.
Laura Dugger: (35:24 - 36:48)
Oh, that's so good. And I love how you say just an on ramp, because the goal is more intimacy overall together to know one another, be known. And I love that you're showing this is not a manipulation factor.
This isn't ask these questions so we can be more active in the bedroom, regardless of whichever spouse is the higher desire one. But this is to really enhance all levels of your relationship. And as you talk about oxytocin, it just makes me think such an interesting cycle that the Lord created where I will speak more stereotypically that where women require the emotional connection and then they open up and enjoy sex more.
But then men, once they've had sex and they just have this like 500 percent increase of oxytocin in this neurochemical bath that opens them up emotionally. And we could see it even as we view our differences. You could be upset because they're opposite or we can see it as a gift that they can fuel one another.
And then we get more of a holistic picture of overall intimacy. So, I'll also link to quite a few episodes because we do about one per month where we dive deeper into sexual intimacy. S
o, I can link all of those in the show notes.
But Casey, were you going to say something?
Meygan Caston: (36:49 - 36:50)
I want to say something to it.
Casey Caston: (36:51 - 37:16)
He loves. Well, so, we're talking chicken and egg, right? Like who gets the emotional intimacy, who gets the physical intimacy first?
And I just think that there's if we approach our relationship with selfishness, well, then neither people get satisfied. But if we are in an approach to serve one another and be selfless lovers. So, men would be like, you know what?
I want to meet my wife's emotional needs.
Meygan Caston: (37:16 - 37:16)
Casey Caston: (37:17 - 37:38)
Like and I do believe that men are the spark of initiation. If you're a husband out there listening to this, like that one of your greatest gifts to marriage is initiation. You were the one who asked for the first date.
You were the one who got down one the knee. You are the spark of initiation. And I believe that God's created women as nurturers of that initiation.
Meygan Caston: (37:39 - 37:41)
And to clarify, you're not talking just about initiating sex.
Casey Caston: (37:41 - 37:43)
Well, yes. Just everything.
Meygan Caston: (37:43 - 37:55)
Initiating, just initiating, initiating a weekly marriage business meeting. Women are so turned on by when a husband's like, hey, I don't necessarily know what we want to do for a date night, but I want to take you on a date. Can I get an amen, Laura?
Laura Dugger: (37:55 - 37:56)
Meygan Caston: (37:57 - 38:14)
Hey, women are turned on. Listen, men, women are turned on. If you say, you know what?
I know that like this has been an issue with my parents and I don't even know how to handle it, but I really want to have that conversation. Oh, my gosh. Just initiating the conversation is all we're looking for.
It's OK that you don't have all the answers.
Casey Caston: (38:14 - 38:14)
Meygan Caston: (38:14 - 38:23)
But for men that avoid stonewall, escape, numb out, busy themselves, it is such a turnoff. It is so not what we want.
Laura Dugger: (38:23 - 39:55)
I want to make sure that you're up to date with our latest news. We have a new website. You can visit theSavvySauce.com and see all of the latest updates. You may remember Francie Heinrichsen from episode 132, where we talked about pursuing our God given dreams. She is the amazing businesswoman who has carefully designed a brand-new website for Savvy Sauce Charities. And we are thrilled with the final product.
So, I hope you check it out there. You're going to find all of our podcasts now with show notes and transcriptions listed a scrapbook of various previous guests and an easy place to join our email list to receive monthly encouragement and questions to ask your loved ones so that you can have your own practical chats for intentional living. You will also be able to access our donation button or our mailing address for sending checks that are tax deductible so that you can support the work of Savvy Sauce Charities and help us continue to reach the nation with the good news of Jesus Christ.
So, make sure you visit theSavvySauce.com.
Okay, so, then continue the conversation with just overall intimacy. What are some examples of de-escalation techniques that you recommend to couples who are in conflict, ones that can maybe help the strained relationships so that they can be repaired?
Meygan Caston: (39:55 - 42:19)
Yeah. So, a big thing that I've learned as someone who's very direct, I can tend to be on that, like I mentioned, fighter side. And I know a lot of women, studies have shown 75 percent of us ladies are the ones that typically bring up the issues.
So, just be aware that there is a gender difference there. And if you're a dude, there's nothing wrong with you if you're in, you know, that 75 percent or 25 percent. But I think the biggest thing I've recognized is to remind your spouse in the very beginning of the conversation, why you're having the conversation.
You know, I love you. I love us. I want to see us be the best people that we can be.
I want to see us enjoy marriage and enjoy life. I love you. Like bring the positivity and the reminder that you're better together than apart.
And really, that's part of what we call a soft startup, right? There's a lot of different soft startups you've heard of. You know, I feel when you I need those work to but I like to take it a little bit deeper to say, remind your spouse how much that you love being married to them.
Or again, whatever the issue is like we have the most. Let's say it's parenting. Casey and I are very different in our parenting styles.
Last night would have been a great difference of how that happened. But like reminder that like we both love our children. We both want the best for our kids.
No one doubts that. We both have made we made two beautiful, wonderful, quirky children. Right.
And so, even you can start the conversation with that. But I wish that more people did that because I think people are are, you know, I'm really upset about something. OK, well, the second you say that defenses, sorry, but defenses are going to go up.
We want to keep the conversations defenses low, guards low, right, de-escalation. And so, use soft startups, use kind, positive language. But I think another thing behind that would be come to the conversation processed.
Do not have these conversations 11 o'clock at night when you're tired or when you're hungry. Do not have these conversations when it just happened and you haven't had the time to just like stop. Think about what do I really need?
Why did that trigger me? What am I hoping to achieve? Why is my husband acting this way?
Oh, is he under a lot of stress? Yeah, we got to give ourselves time to sit and process before we even use those soft startups. So, that would be my advice for de-escalation.
Casey Caston: (42:20 - 43:04)
And mine actually would be an apology. I think that we all make mistakes. And when you think about a couple that's maybe living reactively, just winging it, I doubt that there's ever an apology that's given on either side because it takes a little it takes awareness to recognize, gosh, you know what?
My that little comment I just made that probably had a little zing to it. Or, you know, I really let my spouse down by not parenting the children the way she would want me to. Or, you know, I said I was going to do something and I didn't.
And I let my partner down. You want to de-escalate a tense situation. Apologize.
Meygan Caston: (43:04 - 43:04)
Casey Caston: (43:05 - 43:12)
When you apologize, you know, you're taking all of the heat out of the fire. They really are.
Meygan Caston: (43:12 - 43:16)
And you're validating your spouse's feelings. Who doesn't want to be validated and seen? Everybody does.
Casey Caston: (43:16 - 43:38)
And then you're taking responsibility and accountability for your actions, which is the trust builder for relationships. So, that's why when you talk about high conflict relationships, there aren't a lot of there's not a lot of trust there. It's not a safe place anymore.
So, to create that safety, we want to we want to build trust back into the relationship.
Laura Dugger: (43:39 - 43:50)
Those are fantastic. And do you guys just have maybe a handful of ideas for ways that couples can strengthen their marriage with one another?
Meygan Caston: (43:51 - 44:09)
Absolutely. I would say, obviously, the weekly marriage business meeting. I mean, I know we talked about it, but the important thing is to schedule it, put it in the calendar because you don't want to wing it.
And that way it's showing, oh, you're prioritizing us. Taking walks has been a big one for us. Playing games is a big one.
Casey Caston: (44:09 - 45:18)
The 60 second blessing is where we intentionally spend time. 60 seconds reminding our partner of how much we love them, using our words to say, like, I saw how hard you work for the family. I love how you take care of the kids and kind of reminding your partner, like I see the goodness in each other.
I think it's really important because. Day to day life, we can just be very transactional, and if we again, we have any sort of criticism or, you know, our words just are not flavored with life, well, proverb says, you know, our words have the power to give life or to give death. Right.
So, the words that we speak, if we evaluate. Are we producing what I call weed seeds? Or are we planting fruit trees?
Because weed seeds choke out the garden. Those sharp, critical words can leave your garden looking pretty shabby, whereas being intentional by speaking positive over each other. It's like planting fruit trees.
And who doesn't like a good, juicy orange? Right.
Meygan Caston: (45:18 - 47:15)
Well, and the 60 second blessing, you know, you start off by writing five to seven positive things you love about your spouse. And so, one spouse shares their list for 60 seconds and then the second spouse shares their list. And it's this habit that we actually started doing after our marriage intensive that we did as we were repairing our marriage because we had yeah, we had we had spoken such mean and harsh words or just a lot of roommate stuff.
And we needed that positivity. And it's a great foreplay tip, by the way, just to sit, sometimes sit down and go, I just need to tell you how wonderful you are. Like, who doesn't want to hear that about themselves?
I think another thing that Casey and I have recognized it is the only thing, by the way, Laura, in our marriage, the only thing that has ever stayed consistent. That's we have fun together. We laugh a lot, even in hard times.
Yeah, it wasn't as enjoyable, but we still had fun. And, you know, again, fun is different for everybody. We don't ever want to judge someone else's fun.
But we are constantly like we we are sarcastic. But that's for us because we have high trust levels. I usually tell couples if you're, you know, in a fair recovery or you have low trust levels, sarcasm is probably not great.
But we're very playful. We have again, we play a lot of fun games and we play ping pong and cornhole and we take our dogs on our dog on a walk. And we, you know, we're going to try to go ax throwing in April.
We've never done that before. Like there are fun that we've taken dance lessons. So, we like to think out of the box and do new things or things that we know that like how many games of Yahtzee have we played?
I don't even know. I mean, we've lost count. Or gin rummy, you know, I mean, we just play Sequence or Rummikub like we play them all.
And for that for us, that's really fun. We dance a lot. We love the 90’s music.
Like get out your favorite playlist and just dance and sing and be goofy. Like I think if couples were to laugh and enjoy each other more and be able to laugh with themselves, I think that there would be more marriages that would stay together.
Laura Dugger: (47:16 - 47:39)
That is something that I've even experienced in this time together. You guys are so fun to be around. And that's very life giving to others.
But I can see where it starts in that secret place between just the two of you, your best friend. And you share a lot of this goodness with Marriage 365. So, can you let us know all the different things that you have to offer?
Casey Caston: (47:40 - 48:48)
Yeah, I would probably say the number one way that people experience all of the resources that we've created over the years is through our mobile app. So, we have an app that has over a thousand pieces of videos, workshop, worksheet, excuse me, courses, challenges. We even have a checkup so you can actually rate kind of your marriage.
And that is a great way for people to be able to have access, you know, on the spot if they're dealing with an issue, they don't know how to get through and they're looking for a tool or a conversation to help them work through that. That our app provides such a valuable resource. I mean, beyond that, you know, some couples need a little bit more hands on approach.
So, we do coaching. We have a coaching staff actually to handle all the incoming couples that are saying, hey, can you can you help us out? And again, I just want to say coaching is really, really focused on giving action plans and homework and accountability to our clients.
And coaching is really, really helpful if you're like, I just need to know what to do next.
Meygan Caston: (48:48 - 49:17)
Yeah. We do intensives for couples that are in crisis, you know, there that are seriously considering separation or divorce or an affair recovery and that we have an over 90 percent success rate because we went through an intensive when we were struggling and it was something we knew we wanted to get trained on and do. And it's a full two days with Casey and I.
I mean, two days back-to-back. We know you. We get Christmas cards from all of our couples, you know, every year.
We love it. And it's they become almost I mean, yes, they're our clients, but they almost become like our friends.
Casey Caston: (49:17 - 49:45)
Yeah. And then probably personally, one of my favorite things that we do is we host our own couple’s getaway. And this is a four-day experience.
It's not your it's not like a typical retreat where you're sitting in a conference room, you're just getting lectured all day. We're actually facilitating tools and then giving couples opportunities to work on them. Then some free time to really spend some time making great memories.
We have a dance party. It is a ton of fun.
Meygan Caston: (49:45 - 49:55)
We make sure. Yeah, we make sure it's fun. It's more it's definitely more for couples who are doing OK or want to do better, not they're not ideal for couples in crisis because it's going to be very uncomfortable.
Casey Caston: (49:55 - 49:56)
Meygan Caston: (49:56 - 49:57)
Casey Caston: (49:57 - 49:58)
I love interacting with her.
Meygan Caston: (49:58 - 50:05)
And of course, we have our social media. You can just search Marriage 365 and then we have our website, too. And we have our books, of course.
Casey Caston: (50:05 - 50:09)
Oh, and I have a men's group. I know I launched a five-week men's reset.
Meygan Caston: (50:09 - 50:34)
Needless to say, Laura, we're really busy. I do a lot. I think that's what's funny, right?
I think that people see us online and they think that we just have an Instagram, or we just have Facebook. And I'm like, we've been doing this for 12 years and we have a staff of 12 people. So, we reach a lot of people.
And we because marriage is never a one stop, you know, one size fits all. It's it's true. There are so many different dynamics, and we want to be able to help as many people as we can.
Laura Dugger: (50:35 - 50:59)
Wow. Thank you for sharing that. We will add all of those links.
I love all these different offerings that you have and that will meet people in whatever phase they're in. But you two already know we are called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so, as my final question for both of you, what is your Savvy Sauce?
Meygan Caston: (51:00 - 51:47)
Mine would be I would want every single person to think about becoming more confident. And that starts with becoming more self-aware. I think that that is completely changed who I am.
And I'm we're raising two kids, and I see the confidence that they have. And we're modeling that but also walking them through how to be self-aware. And really, that starts with having to be one with your thoughts, turning off the phone, sorry, turning off the podcast, sometimes turning off the music and just actually sitting and really going.
Do I really know my thoughts, my feelings, my values, my personality, my good, my bad, my ugly? And we don't do this enough. We are busy ourselves.
We're distracted constantly. And I think that it's really harming our mental health. And so, that would be my savvy sauce.
Casey Caston: (51:47 - 52:30)
Hmm. I love that, babe. It's kind of hard because we find so much alignment.
I mean, I would that's exactly what I would say, too. Um, I, you know, my focus in twenty, twenty-five has really been turned towards helping husbands. And there's a quote that Henry David Thoreau says that many men live lives of quiet desperation and they die with their songs still inside them.
And most guys are terrified of stopping and evaluating. And so, for me, creating space too. Listen, I do a 10, 10, 10 practice in the morning.
Meygan Caston: (52:30 - 52:32)
That's what I thought you were going to say.
Casey Caston: (52:32 - 52:32)
Meygan Caston: (52:32 - 52:36)
Well, I was like, I bet you he's going to talk about it because it's been life changing for you.
Casey Caston: (52:36 - 53:01)
Yeah. So, I spend 10 minutes of scripture reading. So, that's input.
Then I spend 10 minutes of quiet meditation where I'm sitting and I'm in a listening posture. And I mean, I think about everything from lasagna to the last wave I serve to. But there's intentionality about just opening myself like here I am.
I'm ready to be downloaded on like what you have for me today.
Meygan Caston: (53:01 - 53:02)
God be one with your thoughts.
Casey Caston: (53:03 - 53:18)
Yeah. And all sorts of things come up. And then I spent 10 minutes journaling.
And that process is just and that's like the output. Right. So, now I've got input.
I've been listening and now I get to write stuff out. And that's been a huge game changer for me.
Laura Dugger: (53:19 - 53:43)
Wow, I love both of those. You two are just refreshingly vulnerable and such an incredible mixture of intentional and lighthearted. And it has been so great just to sit under your teaching today.
So, thank you for sharing your story and for helping all of us. And thank you just for being my guests.
Meygan Caston: (53:43 - 53:45)
Oh, you're welcome. It was a pleasure to be here.
Casey Caston: (53:45 - 53:49)
Yes, you asked great questions that plumb the deep wells of Casey Meygan.
Laura Dugger: (53:52 - 57:35)
One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term gospel before?
It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news.
Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death, and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved.
We need a savior. But God loved us so much, he made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him.
That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
