Jon sits down with Wes Gay, a StoryBrand certified consultant who's been living and breathing the framework for almost a decade. He’s here to break down why most business messaging falls flat (and how to fix it).

The conversation dives deep into the seven-part StoryBrand framework, which treats your customer as the hero of their own story while positioning your business as the guide. Wes walks through each step: hero (your customer), problem (what they're struggling with), guide (you, with empathy and authority), plan (clear steps to success), call to action (what they should do next), and success or failure (the stakes).

What makes this framework so powerful is its simplicity. Instead of talking about how great your company is or listing features, you focus on solving specific problems for specific people. Wes shares real examples, from CarMax's three-step car selling process to how changing one button from "Schedule a Demo" to "Talk to an Expert" increased leads by 40%.

The second half gets tactical about finding your ideal customer. Wes reveals his favorite exercise: asking business owners to identify their favorite customers from the last two years - the ones who paid full price, said yes fastest, and became repeat buyers. Usually, one type emerges as 85% of the business.

They wrap up discussing how StoryBrand thinking can help refine Sagan's messaging, moving beyond "we provide global talent" to something more specific about helping growing companies hire affordably.

People don't buy what's best, they buy what they understand best.

Key Topics:

(01:36) The 7-Part StoryBrand Framework

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