The Thinking Practitioner

By Til Luchau & Whitney LoweAlternative Health Health & Fitness Education Courses

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The Thinking Practitioner episodes

August 06, 2025150: Listener Favorite: Fascia, Fitness, and Feeling (with Robert Schleip)
Rebroadcast: One of our most popular episodes (Ep 45), shared again in honor of the upcoming Fascia Research Congress.
🎙In this lively and far-reaching conversation, fascia researcher and manual therapy pioneer Robert Schleip returns to talk with Til Luchau and Whitney Lowe about the newly expanded second edition of Fascia in Sport and Movement. They explore what’s new in fascia science, how manual therapy and movement are evolving, and how fascia functions as a sensory and fluid-regulating organ. Along the way, Schleip shares stories, research, and a few surprises.

🔍 Key Topics:
•0:00 — Til’s choice to publish with Handspring (and Robert’s role in that decision)
•2:02 — Introducing Robert Schleip: Rolfing, Feldenkrais, and fascia science
•5:46 — Relevance of Fascia in Sport and Movement for manual therapists
•8:36 — From bodywork to movement: integrating motor learning and fascia fitness
•12:47 — Fascia fitness origins and the shift toward bounce, play, and variety
•18:15 — Fascia as a sensory organ: 250 million sensory nerve endings
•22:10 — Surprising differences in innervation between skin and fascia
•26:58 — Free nerve endings, pain perception, and autonomic connections
•29:41 — Sympathetic regulation and its role in fluid dynamics and recovery
•35:25 — Balancing sympathetic and parasympathetic input through varied movement
•40:18 — Resilience, trauma, and adaptation (with nods to Porges and Levine)
•45:19 — Can we really change fascia? Revisiting IT bands and foam rolling
•50:34 — Hyaluronan, hydration, and viscosity: another mechanism for change
•57:36 — A story of facial nerve recovery, social engagement, and baby therapy
•1:01:31 — Touching water: fascia, sponginess, and inspiring clients to move
•1:06:54 — Elegant stair dancing and everyday movement integration
•1:10:30 — Resources, shoutouts, and where to learn more from Robert

📚 Resources Mentioned in This Episode
Book: Fascia in Sport & Movement at Handspring (Get 15% off with coupon code TTP)
fasciaresearch.de
somatics.de
Fascia Research Society
Sponsor Offers:
Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.
ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.
Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,.
Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet
Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/
💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]
✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast.
🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!
Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com
Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com
About Whitney Lowe | About Til Luchau | Email Us: [email protected]
(The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)
1 hr 11 min
July 23, 2025149: Bodywork through the Polyvagal Lens (with Stephen Porges)
🎙In this episode, Til Luchau and Whitney Lowe speak with renowned neuroscientist Dr. Stephen Porges, originator of Polyvagal Theory. Together, they explore how our nervous systems respond to cues of safety, how touch can support regulation and connection, and what all this means for bodyworkers and manual therapists.
Dr. Porges shares the latest thinking on co-regulation, trauma, attunement, and the science of feeling safe—along with practical insights for practitioners working with the body.
🔍 Key Topics:
00:00 – 02:00 Intro, ABMP welcome & framing the Polyvagal lens for bodyworkers
02:00 – 07:00 Early research with Peter Levine and John Cottingham: how structural shifts (pelvic tilt, fascia work) alter autonomic regulation
07:00 – 12:00 Evolutionary foundations: fascia types, diaphragm function, and the hierarchy of autonomic response
12:00 – 17:00 Facial expressivity, voice prosody, and breathing as channels of co‑regulation
17:00 – 22:00 Identifying autonomic states (“tightly wrapped” bodies) and choosing when—not just where—to touch
22:00 – 27:00 The Body Perception Questionnaire: a tool for mapping clients’ interoceptive awareness
27:00 – 32:00 Trauma, autonomic reactivity, and parsing traumatic events vs. responses
32:00 – 37:00 The Safe and Sound Protocol: acoustic interventions for nervous system safety
37:00 – 42:00 Vagal “hacking” misconceptions: why rhythm and safety signals matter more than stimulation
42:00 – 47:00 Feedback loops: tissue ↔ nervous system ↔ fascia → chronic pain
47:00 – 52:00 Therapist intuition: physiological co‑regulation, broadcasting accessibility, therapist self‑state
52:00 – 57:00 Finding safety in a chaotic world: why therapists need safe colleagues and co‑regulation too
57:00 – 60:00+ New resources: Polyvagal Theory: A Science of Safety, the Norton-edited somatic therapies volume, Safe & Sound Protocol book, Our Polyvagal World
📚 Resources Mentioned in This Episode
• Polyvagal Theory: A Science of Safety
Stephen W. Porges (2022)
A foundational, peer-reviewed article exploring how our nervous system detects safety and threat.
https://doi.org/10.3389/fnint.2022.871227
• Somatic-Oriented Therapies: Embodiment, Trauma, and Polyvagal Perspectives
Edited by H. Grassmann, M. Stupiggia & S. W. Porges (2025)
A rich collection on body-centered therapy approaches and trauma healing through a Polyvagal lens.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1324052724
• Safe and Sound: A Polyvagal Approach for Connection, Change, and Healing
Stephen W. Porges & Karen Onderko (2025, Audiobook)
A warm, practical guide to healing and connection through nervous system regulation.
https://www.amazon.com.au/Safe-Sound-Polyvagal-Approach-Connection/dp/B0DGGZLJ3J
• Our Polyvagal World: How Safety and Trauma Change Us
Stephen W. Porges & Seth Porges (2023, Audiobook)
A father-son conversation exploring how trauma and safety shape our bodies, brains, and relationships.
https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B0CW5CPPFP
• Polyvagal Perspectives: Interventions, Practices, and Strategies
Stephen W. Porges (2024, Audiobook)
Hands-on insights for bringing Polyvagal ideas into therapy, education, and everyday life.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0D9PJQC55
Sponsor Offers:
Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.
ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.
Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,.
Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet
Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/
💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]
✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast.
🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!
Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com
Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com
About Whitney Lowe | About Til Luchau | Email Us: [email protected]
(The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)
1 hr 6 min
July 09, 2025148: The Vagus Nerve: Buzzword or Biology? (with Til Luchau & Whitney Lowe)
🎙From “vagal push-ups” to inflammation to trauma healing, the vagus nerve is everywhere in bodywork and wellness talk—but what does the science actually say? And more importantly, what does this mean in actual practice?

In this episode, Til and Whitney take a grounded, myth-busting look at the vagus nerve’s role in health, relaxation, and hands-on practice. They explore what we can clearly influence through bodywork, what’s misunderstood, and how to work with and think about this vital nerve in our hands-on practices.

🔍 Key Topics:
0:01:50 Introduction to the vagus nerve
0:02:07 Early experiences learning about the vagus nerve
0:03:40 Chair massage and vagal responses
0:03:40 EMT training and vagal response demonstrations
0:04:03 Early research on heart rate variability
0:05:23 Steven Porges and polyvagal theory origins
0:05:46 Anatomical overview of the vagus nerve
0:06:15 Nerve pathways and innervation
0:08:44 Branches to the ear and other body parts
0:08:44 Ventral and dorsal vagus nerve divisions
0:10:01 Parasympathetic nervous system explanation
0:11:11 Evolutionary perspectives on vagal function
0:12:44 Vagal tone and heart rate variability
0:14:38 Mechanisms of heart rate regulation
0:15:04 Breathing and its impact on vagal tone
0:19:47 Breathing techniques for vagal stimulation
0:21:15 Humming, chanting, and vocal effects
0:23:15 Social regulation through sound
0:25:24 Cold exposure and vagal response
0:26:35 Diving reflex
0:27:00 Physiological changes in response to cold
0:28:07 Can we "treat" the vagus nerve?
0:32:27 Limitations of direct nerve manipulation
0:35:14 Holistic approaches to nervous system regulation
0:35:39 Identifying clients who might benefit from vagal tone work
0:36:14 Vagus nerve and inflammation
0:38:12 Changing perspectives on manual therapy approaches
0:39:39 Role of education in treatment
0:41:16 Ear stimulation techniques
0:42:52 Cautions about ear work
0:44:46 Polyvagal theory overview
0:45:59 Criticisms of polyvagal theory
0:46:21 Misconceptions about vagus nerve stimulation
0:49:25 Key takeaways about vagus nerve
0:50:24 Importance of context in nervous system regulation
0:51:49 Comparing vagus nerve to mystique of psoas muscle
0:52:41 Sponsor acknowledgments
0:53:24 Closing remarks and contact information
Resources discussed in this episode:
Article: Luchau, Til: 'Working with the Vagus Nerve' Massage & Bodywork, 2017. https://bit.ly/luchau-workingwiththevagusnerve
Sponsor Offers:
Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.
ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.
Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,.
Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet
Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/
💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]
✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast.
🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!
Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com
Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com
About Whitney Lowe | About Til Luchau | Email Us: [email protected]
(The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)
55 min
June 25, 2025147: Palpating Fibrosis, Easing Inflammation (with Geoffrey Bove & Holly McMillan)
🎙What can trained hands feel in irradiated tissue—and how might that inform both research and practice?
In this episode, Til Luchau and guest cohost Cathy Ryan, RMT, talk with neurobiologist Dr. Geoffrey Bove and manual therapist/speech pathologist Holly McMillan about their collaborative animal study. They explore how massage therapy may influence radiation-induced fibrosis, the use of palpation as a formal outcome, and the challenges of correlating what we feel with what science can measure. This wide-ranging discussion offers practical takeaways for manual therapists working with inflammation, scarring, or post-radiation clients.
Stick around after the outro for a candid “off-mic” bonus segment where Holly describes her hands-on work in surgical oncology settings.
⏱️ Key Topics:
• 00:01:31 – Introductions: Cathy Ryan, Geoffrey Bove, Holly McMillan
• 00:03:09 – Why this study was exciting to manual therapists
• 00:04:18 – Geoffrey Bove on inflammation, nerves, and fibrosis research
• 00:08:14 – Holly: how findings might apply beyond radiation cases
• 00:13:20 – Holly explains what she was feeling for in irradiated limbs
• 00:14:23 – “Buoyancy” and the difficulty of articulating touch-based findings
• 00:18:25 – How palpation findings relate to pathology and imaging
• 00:20:59 – Fibrosis and lymphedema as a clinical continuum
• 00:23:36 – Timing differences in fibrosis between surgery and radiation
• 00:24:52 – Study limitations: assay sensitivity vs. palpation sensitivity
• 00:27:00 – Movement’s role in mitigating radiation effects
• 00:29:00 – The importance of community, alliance, and social touch
• 00:33:27 – Timing of manual therapy before and after radiation
• 00:35:00 – Prevention vs. treatment of fibrosis
• 00:37:18 – What kind of touch is most helpful, and when
• 00:40:00 – Oncology-specific timing considerations for manual therapy
• 00:42:29 – Manual therapy goals in early vs. late stages post-surgery
• 00:44:09 – What practitioners are really touching: inflammation, edema, fibrosis
• 00:45:49 – Apprenticeship vs. protocol-driven training in touch therapy
• 00:47:34 – Final thoughts from Geoffrey and Holly
• 00:50:56 – Bonus: “Off-mic” conversation—Holly’s stories from surgical manual therapy work
• 00:51:09 – Holly describes doing manual therapy in open surgical fields
• 00:52:13 – Avoiding surgery or enabling access through touch
• 00:53:27 – “Sun-dried tomato” vs. “beef jerky”: metaphors for tissue change
• 00:54:15 – Scar tissue, fibrosis, nociceptors, and innervation
• 00:55:57 – The gap between pain-focused and function-focused care
• 00:57:08 – “The Diary of Holly” and the value of descriptive clinical cases
Resources discussed in this episode:
Study:
Bove, G. M., McMillan, H., & Barbe, M. F. (2024). Evaluating massage therapy for radiation-induced fibrosis in rats: preliminary findings and palpation results. Cancer Biology & Therapy, 25(1). https://doi.org/10.1080/15384047.2024.2436694
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/10.1080/15384047.2024.2436694 and supplemental file https://advanced-trainings.com/materials_ttp/147_bove_supplemental_kcbt_a_2436694_sm2290.pdf
Also mentioned in this episode:
McMillan, H., Barbon, C. E. A., Cardoso, R., Sedory, A., Buoy, S., Porsche, C., Savage, K., Mayo, L., & Hutcheson, K. A. (2022). Manual Therapy for Patients With Radiation-Associated Trismus After Head and Neck Cancer. JAMA otolaryngology-- head & neck surgery, 148(5), 418–425. https://doi.org/10.1001/jamaoto.2022.0082
Hutcheson, K., McMillan, H., Warneke, C., Porsche, C., Savage, K., Buoy, S., Wang, J., Woodman, K., Lai, S., & Fuller, C. (2021). Manual Therapy for Fibrosis-Related Late Effect Dysphagia in head and neck cancer survivors: the pilot MANTLE trial. BMJ open, 11(8), e047830. https://doi.org/10.1136/bmjopen-2020-047830
McMillan, H., Warneke, C. L., Buoy, S., Porsche, C., Savage, K., Lai, S. Y., Fuller, C. D., & Hutcheson, K. A. (2025). Manual Therapy for Fibrosis-Related Late Effect Dysphagia in Head and Neck Cancer Survivors: The MANTLE Nonrandomized Clinical Trial. JAMA otolaryngology-- head & neck surgery, 151(4), 319–327. https://doi.org/10.1001/jamaoto.2024.5157
Sponsor Offers:
Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.
ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.
Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,.
Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet
💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]
✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast.
🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!
Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com
Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com
About Whitney Lowe | About Til Luchau | Email Us: [email protected]
(The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)
59 min
June 18, 2025[Class Announcement Episode!] Leg Knee & Foot Masterclass (Thomas Myers with Til Luchau)
🎙In this special mini-episode, Til Luchau previews his upcoming Leg, Knee & Foot Masterclass (August 17–19, 2025 in Walpole, Maine) while catching up with his longtime friend and colleague Thomas Myers, founder of Anatomy Trains and host of the Anatomy Trains Summer Program.
Together, they reflect on:
How their teaching—and their excitement for it—has evolved
Why the leg, knee, and foot deserve more focused attention
The meaning of mastery after decades in the field
The value of proprioception and embodied experience in our work
How hands-on practice helps restore a felt sense of connection in uncertain times
🗓️ Til’s Leg, Knee & Foot Masterclass takes place August 17–19, 2025 in Walpole, Maine, as part of the Anatomy Trains Summer Program.

Learn more and register at:
https://advanced-trainings.com/workshops/
https://www.anatomytrains.com/product/leg-knee-foot-masterclass-advanced-myofascial-techniques-with-til-luchau
Sponsor Offers:
Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.
ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.
Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,.
Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet
Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/
💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]
✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast.
🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!
Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com
Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com
About Whitney Lowe | About Til Luchau | Email Us: [email protected]
(The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)
16 min
June 11, 2025146: Inflammation, Touch, & the Grieving Body (with Mary-Frances O’Connor)
🎙Grief is not just an emotion—it’s a full-body experience. In this episode, Til Luchau talks with neuroscientist and psychologist Mary-Frances O’Connor, author of The Grieving Body, about how grief changes the brain, affects inflammation, and alters our physiology. They explore how attachment loss rewires the brain, how inflammatory responses shape behavior and mood, and how the body experiences grief via physical sensations.

They also discuss the role of touch, bodywork, and therapeutic presence in supporting people through grief, and together they reflect on the profound connections between grief, the body, and the healing power of human connection.

🔍 Key Topics:
04:30 – Grief and the brain: What happens in the mind-body connection
10:45 – Grief is not toxic: A new understanding of pain and loss
16:00 – How inflammation shapes behavior and mood in grief
24:00 – Attachment loss and the nervous system: Polyvagal insights
32:45 – The physical sensations of grief: aches, tension, and holding patterns
38:00 – Touch as co-regulation: What bodywork can offer in grief
44:15 – Grief as a lifelong, embodied process, not something to get over
50:10 – Practical insights for bodyworkers supporting grieving clients
55:30 – How understanding the body’s role in grief can transform our approach
💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]
✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast.
📄 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!
Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com
Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com
Resources discussed in this episode:
Two of Mary-Frances O’Connor's books:
The Grieving Brain https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-grieving-brain-mary-frances-oconnor
The Grieving Body https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-grieving-body-mary-frances-oconnor
Sponsor Offers:
Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.
ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.
Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,.
Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet
Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/
About Whitney Lowe | About Til Luchau | Email Us: [email protected]
(The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)
57 min
May 28, 2025145: Can Discs Heal? (with Stuart McGill)
🎙 World-renowned spine expert Dr. Stuart McGill returns for a deep dive into the complexities of disc healing and adaptation, back pain mechanics, and what manual and movement therapists need to understand about spinal loading, adaptation, and practitioner longevity. In this rich and wide-ranging conversation with Til Luchau and Whitney Lowe, Dr. McGill offers both cutting-edge science and practical insights for helping clients—and ourselves—move with more strength, resilience, and less pain.
🔍 Key Topics:
(04:43) Can Discs Heal or Adapt? – What the science says about disc recovery and tissue response.
(09:47) Posture vs. Load-Driven Pain – Simple tests to differentiate pain sources.
(14:12) Disc Architecture & Adaptation – Why discs don’t respond like tendons.
(19:38) Mobility vs. Load Capacity – The trade-offs between flexibility and strength.
(25:41) Disc Bulges, Schmorl’s Nodes & End Plate Damage – How structure influences symptoms.
(32:10) McKenzie Techniques: When They Work & When They Don’t – What recent studies reveal.
(41:19) Grooving New Movement Patterns – Lasting change requires more than mobility.
(45:57) The Biological Spectrum – Why not all bodies adapt the same.
(52:55) Long Fascial Chains & Functional Release – Lessons from the fascia world.
(59:00) Chronic vs. Repeated Acute Pain – Empowering clients through precision assessment.
(1:00:13) Bodyworker Longevity & Spinal Mechanics – How therapists can protect their own backs.
💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]
✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast.
📄 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!
Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com
Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com
Resources discussed in this episode:
Stuart McGill's site: https://backfitpro.com
Sponsor Offers:
Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.
ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.
Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,.
Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet
About Whitney Lowe | About Til Luchau | Email Us: [email protected]
(The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)
1 hr 12 min
May 14, 2025144: Fascia, Emotion, Inflammation, & Attention (with Robert Schleip)
🎙In this thought-provoking episode, Til and Whitney welcome back fascia researcher Robert Schleip to explore the evolving science behind fascia’s role in emotional regulation, inflammation, and sensory experience. They dive into Schleip’s keynote for the upcoming 7th International Fascia Research Congress and discuss emerging research on fascia as a dynamic neuro-immune interface.
Robert shares his updates on fascinating insights into attention, depression, touch, circadian rhythms, and how fascia may bridge body and mind in ways we’re only beginning to understand.
🕑 Key Topics
04:15 – Schleip’s keynote preview: fascia, emotion, and immune interaction
06:09 – The new direction of the 2025 Fascia Research Congress
07:55 – Polyvagal theory and fascia: Schleip on Porges and the vagus nerve
12:15 – Fascia and depression: new findings on thickened epimysium
20:47 – Foam rolling, mindful attention, and emotional filtering in depression
26:12 – Reticular formation, attention, and touch outcomes
32:07 – Therapist vs client attention: new data on treatment impact
37:12 – The history and evolution of the Fascia Research Congress
44:04 – Fascia, safety, and perceptual context
48:00 – Sliding fascia and emotional stress: 48-hour delay and resilience
51:40 – New paradigm: from force transmission to circadian rhythms and synthesis
56:21 – Schleip’s takeaway: return to wonder and curiosity under the stars
💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us!
📌 Sponsored by: ABMP and Books of Discovery, with in-kind support from the Fascia Research Society
✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast.
📄 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!
Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com
Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com
Resources discussed in this episode:
Fascia & depression study: Michalak J, Aranmolate L, Bonn A, Grandin K, Schleip R, et al. (2021) Myofascial Tissue and Depression, Cognitive Therapy and Research – https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8688142/
Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/
Sponsor Offers:
Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.
ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.
Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,.
Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet
Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/
About Whitney Lowe | About Til Luchau | Email Us: [email protected]
(The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)
1 hr
April 30, 2025143: Palliative Massage is for Everyone (with Cal Cates)
🎙Cal Cates returns to The Thinking Practitioner to explore the essential role massage therapy can play in palliative and end-of-life care. In conversation with Til Luchau and Whitney Lowe, Cal shares practical insights, personal stories, and the philosophy behind Healwell’s innovative mPATH training program. Together they unpack ways that all massage therapists and bodyworkers can better support patients, caregivers, and care teams—not by fixing, but by listening, noticing, and showing up with presence.
🌟 Key Topics:
[04:37] What is palliative care—and where massage therapy fits
[07:15] The cultural fear of dying and how it limits care
[11:38] Common assumptions therapists make about palliative care
[13:21] Massage therapy is palliative care—philosophically and practically
[16:36] Caregiver stress: why the family is the “unit of care”
[20:23] Communication as the primary intervention in palliative settings
[24:06] How therapeutic touch invites emotional openness
[25:44] Self-regulation and presence as clinical skills
[31:38] Cal’s personal story: how they began this work
[36:39] Are we making progress as a culture in facing death?
[38:37] Skills and mindsets bodyworkers can cultivate
[46:16] The mPATH program: advanced training for palliative care massage
[52:21] What can go wrong without proper preparation
[57:13] Technique is important—but presence makes it land
[58:17] Resources and where to learn more
💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us!
📌 Sponsored by: ABMP and Books of Discovery, with in-kind support from the Fascia Research Society
✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast.
📄 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!
Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com
Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com
Resources discussed in this episode:
Healwell's mPATH program: https://Healwell.org/mPATH
Cal's recommendations
Palliative Touch by Cindy Spence
Oncology Massage: An Integrative Approach to Cancer Care by Rebecca Sturgeon and Janet Penny
Massage Therapy and Medical Conditions: a Decision Tree Approach by Tracy Walton
Vital Talk
The Center to Advance Palliative Care
Mandy Bartolovich on the Folding Towels podcast talking about pediatric palliative massage work and her research.
Friday Chalk Talk - Palliative Care
Sponsor Offers:
Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.
ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.
Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,.
Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet
Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "thinking" at https://www.frscongress.org/
About Whitney Lowe | About Til Luchau | Email Us: [email protected]
(The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)
1 hr 4 min
April 16, 2025142: Fascia and the Vagus Nerve (with Fabiana Silva)
🎙Til Luchau speaks with physiotherapist and fascia researcher Fabiana Silva about the emerging connections between fascia, the vagus nerve, and systemic inflammation. They explore both the science and the practical applications of manual therapy, transcutaneous vagus nerve stimulation, and the challenges of clinical research in the hands-on healing arts. Fabiana is also the President of the Fascia Research Society, and shares highlights from the upcoming 2025 Fascia Research Congress in New Orleans.
🎧 Tune in to learn how fascia influences vagal tone, inflammation, mood, and more — and how practitioners can work more effectively with these systems.
🌟 Key Topics:
•[02:59] Introduction to fascia and the vagus nerve connection
•[05:02] Transcutaneous vagus nerve stimulation and clinical uses
•[07:27] Vagus nerve’s role in inflammation and chronic illness
•[09:48] Manual therapy, breathwork, and vagal tone
•[12:26] Fascia as sensory interface and its impact on vagal signaling
•[20:10] Hands-on techniques: suboccipital and gut fascia release
•[23:33] Challenges in manual therapy research
•[28:29] Predatory journals and the need for better fascia research
•[33:59] Fascia Research Congress 2025: what’s coming up
•[37:51] Building community and collaboration in the fascia field
•[41:37] Fabiana’s closing thoughts on the future of fascia research
---
💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us!
📌 Sponsored by: ABMP and Books of Discovery, with in-kind support from the Fascia Research Society
✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast.
📄 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!
Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com
Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com
Resources discussed in this episode:
The 7th International Fascia Research Congress, August 10–14, 2025: https://www.frscongress.org/
Fascia Research Society: https://fasciaresearchsociety.org/
Sponsor Offers:
Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.
ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.
Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,.
Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet
Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "thinking" at https://www.frscongress.org/
About Whitney Lowe | About Til Luchau | Email Us: [email protected]
(The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)
46 min

About The Thinking Practitioner

From the publisher's feed

For the practitioner who’s never stopped being curious. Til Luchau and Whitney Lowe bring together leading researchers, master clinicians, and big questions from across bodywork, massage, and manual therapy — exploring not just what we do with our hands, but why it works and how to do it better. Smart, grounded, and genuinely useful conversations for the somatic arts and sciences.