The Third Story with Leo Sidran

Eric Krasno is in a lot more places than one might realize. Known for his work with the bands Soulive and Lettuce, he also works with all kinds of groups as a player - including the Tedeschi Trucks Band, Phil Lesh and Friends, Oteil Burbridge and Friends...it's a lot of friends. Maybe that's because he has one foot in the jam band world: the universe of extended grooves, risky riffing and close contact with a community of fans.

What surprised me about Eric is how much stuff he actually does - he's part frontman, limelight guy, and part behind the scenes guy. For example, he also has another foot in the world of songwriting and production, and particularly in that space where soul and hip hop meet. He has produced and written songs for Susan Tedeschi and Derek Trucks, Talib Kweli, Nigel Hall, The London Souls, Marcus King, 50 Cent, and Lawrence.

He also makes records as a solo artist. His most recent release Telescope came out last year, accompanied by a series of animated videos that hold together as a global narrative about the lives of a group of people who live in the same building in New York.

Telescope would also turn out to be a kind of farewell love letter to New York, where Krasno was based and where he made so much of his statement for over 20 years. In late 2019 he moved to LA, settled down, and started his next act. Although he planned to focus on production, he still had over 100 gigs scheduled this year. Then the hammer of history fell, and he found himself locked down in LA.

In Covidtimes, he's been doing his own podcast called Eric Krasno Plus One.

We zoomed in recently to talk about what he's doing during these strange and trying times, his experience as a podcaster, producer, and provider of deep and soulful grooves. Along the way we talked about the development of Soulive, Lettuce, Velour Recordings, the values and expectations of jam and jam band audiences, "the boom bap with interesting chord changes", learning how to do less and better, and how many times one man can say the word "nugget" in an hourlong interview.

Drummer Jochen Rueckert has some things to get off his chest.

Born and raised outside of Cologne, Germany, Rueckert started coming to New York as soon as he possibly could. By the time he was in his early 20s, he was already well into paying his dues.

He can be heard on over 120 albums and worked or recorded with musicians and bands such as the Marc Copland Trio, the Kurt Rosenwinkel new quartet, the Mark Turner Band, the Melissa Aldana trio, the Sam Yahel trio, John Abercrombie, Pat Metheny (he tells that story here), Matt Penman, Kenny Werner, Bill McHenry, Seamus Blake, Guillermo Klein and Los Guachos as well as Madeleine Peyroux.

He also leads his own band, programs and releases electronic music under the moniker Wolff Parkinson White, and has written a series of ebooks chronicling every hotel room he's stayed at with a self-timer photograph and short stories about some of the more annoying aspects of life as a touring musician, called Read The Rueckert.

In this extensive and wide ranging conversation Rueckert meditates on his early years in Germany, why playing with great bass players is like eating great pasta, refusing to share hotel rooms, why he is a reluctant teacher, making electronic music, the rare innate heart condition he suffers from, how to groove with organ players, organizing tours, why one should never play with pop musicians, what it was like to play one gig with Pat Metheny, what he's thinking about when he performs, drummer Bill Stewart's time feel and volume level, Artificial Intelligence, the years he spent at Nublu in the Lower East Side of Manhattan, and much, much more.

www.third-story.com www.leosidran.com www.jochenrueckert.net/

Rudresh Mahanthappa has the kind of biography that suggests he might be an intimidating and serious person to talk to. He's the Director of Jazz at Princeton University where he teaches improvisation and directs small groups. He has been listed frequently in the Critics' Poll of Down Beat magazine. He studied music in India and brought that exploration into his own style of hybridized jazz (done in part for a Guggenheim Fellowship), an experience that he describes "as a way of getting to know what it means to be Indian American, it was a way of defining where I am as a person and it's almost like the music was a byproduct."

Mahanthappa started playing alto saxophone as a young boy, first drawn to the more contemporary sounds of David Sandborn, Grover Washington, Jr, Bob Mintzer and Michael Brecker. In fact, here he reminisces about hearing saxophone players in popular songs on the radio (Huey Lewis, Bruce Springsteen, Pink Floyd) when he was growing up. Eventually he heard a Charlie Parker record, which reoriented his playing. Later, he integrated his Carnatic concept as well. All three of those streams - the early influence of newer players, the bebop influence from Bird, and the Indian influence - are still evident in his approach.

Rudresh has released more than 15 records as a solo recording artist, and another 30 albums as a sideman or collaborator. His new record, Hero Trio features bassist Francois Moutin and drummer Rudy Royston in a piano-less saxophone trio that leaves plenty of space for the unit to move together. While many of his projects have relied on original material, this record is made of interpretations, and he cast a wide net, recording material by Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Stevie Wonder, June Carter Cash, Keith Jarrett, Ornette Coleman and others.

So yes, he's serious about what he does, what he thinks about and what he plays. But he's also funny, and fun to talk to. Here we talk about his early development, the journey through music schools, cruise ships and merengue bands that ultimately led him to New York, exploring one's personal identity through music, teaching jazz in a non conservatory environment, Sesame Street, and why "just because you're improvising doesn't mean you're playing jazz".

www.third-story.com www.patreon.com/thirdstorypodcast

Brother and sister Clyde and Gracie Lawrence say that they've been professional musicians all their lives, they just weren't always making money at it.

Raised around creative people (their mother is a dancer and their father a film director), Clyde and Gracie were encouraged to be creative from the very start. So it's no real surprise that at a very young age, they began making hip, accessible, fun, and deeply satisfying music together that walks the line between soul, funk, pop, and "Seinfeld".

Whatever you call it, their music has been the soundtrack to my quarantine, something I've shared with my daughter through these strange months of physical distancing.

Here Clyde and Gracie talk about bridging the gap between hip and pop, managing the creative process in a sibling band, making independent videos, defining success, creating space for young women in the world of funk music, working with producers and mentors (including Eric Krasno and Adam Schlesinger), and how to use their platform for good during these trying times.

www.third-story.com www.patreon.com/thirdstorypodcast www.lawrencetheband.com

Singer-songwriter Louise Goffin says she is "uncomfortable with nostalgia". Louise Goffin says that "in order to take care of the world, you have to take care of your inner soul." Louise Goffin says "don't believe everything you think."

Her new record Two Different Movies was co-produced by Louise and Dave Way, and features a long list of incredible musicians and collaborators. Our conversation itself is kind of like two different movies. One of them deals with an independent songwriter, with a decades long career (she made her first record at 18). The other explores what it was like to grow up as the daughter of young, talented parents who just happened to be two of the most celebrated songwriters of their generation (Gerry Goffin and Carole King).

Songs have played an almost impossibly significant role in Louise's life, so it's no surprise that in addition to writing and recording, she also hosts the Song Chronicles podcast, where she talks to notable songwriters.

This is one of those conversations that operates on multiple levels. It's both an insider's conversation about craft and career, but also a very intimate conversation about her personal journey, and why at 60 she feels like she's just getting started.

https://www.third-story.com https://www.patreon.com/thirdstorypodcast https://www.louisegoffin.com/

I can't think of anyone I would rather talk to right now than Jason Moran. Here we consider so much about history, and so much about the present moment in our country. The conversation is as deep as it is wide, and along the way Jason considers truth versus passion, promoting the "Freedom Principle", America's unfortunate way of forgetting the past, what happens when innovation becomes rhetoric, what it means for African American musicians to move freely "from the stage to the table", the power dynamic within choosing repertoire, how Thelonious Monk and KRS-1 are similar, coming up in Houston among a generation of jazz innovators, what we still have to learn from Louis Armstrong, and what it means to be the "personal embodiment of your history".

www.third-story.com www.patreon.com/thirdstorypodcast

Orlando le Fleming is the kind of bass player who possesses that mysterious element, that sound, that groove, that thing that you want to hook up with. Maybe that's why some of the finest drummers in jazz have chosen Orlando to play in their groups - he logged serious miles playing with Jeff "Tain" Watts, Ari Hoenig, and Antonio Sanchez - three of the most influential drummers alive. And an early recording project with Jimmy Cobb helped to position Orlando as a bass player to know about.

He's also a bass player that singers like to work with. He played with Jane Monheit for years, and spent much of the last few years on the road with Leslie Odom, Jr. (who is known for playing the role of Aaron Burr in Hamilton).

Orlando co-leads a drummerless group called Owl Trio with saxophonist Will Vinson and guitarist Lage Lund, and his solo project Romantic Funk features his groovy fusiony funky tunes played by a collection of New York jazzheads.

Orlando has taken his years of experience and strategies for getting it together and written a new book called Get It Together: Time and Sound Priorities for the Jazz Bass Player.

Despite his exotic name, Orlando explains that he is really just a "slow Englishman". However, he does have a rather exciting secret in his past: before becoming a jazz bass player he was a professional cricketer in England.

We had this conversation in early January of this year. In our talk we look at his career in general terms, talk a lot about playing the bass, the role and function of the bass in ensemble playing, ideas about composition and groove. But what we really settle into is a conversation about New York.

In retrospect, the conversation is a kind of time capsule. It's a look at the jazz experience in New York just before disaster struck. From where we're sitting right now, it's hard to imagine how and when the city will open up again, what that will mean, and if jazz clubs will ever recover as they were before. Seen through that lens, today's episode is a window into a world that we can still remember but that we know is lost.

Here Orlando considers how to get a sound on the bass, why he puts "rhythm before notes", what were the advantages to starting his career in England, when to leave New York, who were his mentors, the "jazz struggle" and why "groove comes from culture."

Saxophonist Richie Cole died on May 2, 2020. He lived a jazz life all the way. His playing, his demeanor and his philosophy were all contained in his catchphrase / modus operandi: Alto Madness. "He was devoted to the bebop lifestyle," says his old friend Janis Siegel. But he was also torn between impulses to be a serious musician operating on the highest level, and to be an entertainer and make people happy.

My dad interviewed Richie in 1985. I interviewed Richie in 2017. I interviewed my dad yesterday to bring it full circle.

In this episode we revisit all three of those conversations, as well as a recent chat with singer Janis Siegel about her friendship with Richie, and some newly unearthed live performance recordings of Richie with singer Eddie Jefferson, captured just days before Jefferson was shot and killed after a gig with Richie in Detroit.

In these strange times when it's unclear what it means to have a "gig", or when the world will open up again, Richie's bebop life becomes especially resonant.

Plus: a classic jazz joke told by Jeff Cesario.

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Becca Stevens is a singer, songwriter, teacher and genuinely lovely person, and also one of the few repeat offenders on the Third Story Podcast. I first talked to her in 2015 and I remember our conversation as being truly connected, candid and comfortable. We had never met before but I left the experience feeling that we were genuinely friends. She has that thing about her that makes you feel like you know her even when you only know her work.

Becca's new record, Wonderbloom, came out last month just as the world began to shelter in place, and her tour, promotion schedule and general career came to a screeching halt, along with everything else. I thought of her almost immediately because I've been following the journey of this record on her social media, one that took her around the world, and led her to collaborate with 40+ musicians - some of whom are also former guests of this podcast, including Michael League, Cory Wong, Alan Hampton, and Jacob Collier. The record is varied and voluminous - it's really not just one record. It's like a compendium of Becca's universe - sometimes funky and rollicking, other times soft spoken and introspective.

This project was a long time coming and so it was that much more of a blow when just as she was rolling it out, she had to pack it in. We had a lovely conversation last week in which she thoughtfully discussed "dancing with the critical voice", looking for silver linings, "the whole money thing" and a newly born pack of baby ducks out her window.

Josh Norek is a difficult man to define. He is generally a behind the scenes kind of guy - president of Regalías Digitales (a firm that helps hundreds of Latin recording artists collect their music royalties and license their songs to film and television productions), co-founder of the Latin Alternative Music Conference (LAMC), co-host of the nationally syndicated public radio show 'The Latin Alternative,' former VP of Nacional Records, artist manager, music attorney.

Then again sometimes he's an in-front of the scenes kind of guy, like with his group Hip Hop Hoodios, which he describes as "probably the world's only Latino Jewish hip hop group out there". As Josh tells it, "It's a group that started as an inside joke" but that ultimately carved out an impressive space within the emerging Latin Alternative space of the early aughts.

Hip Hop Hoodios went on extended hiatus for over a decade, releasing the occasional single or remix but generally staying quiet, until late 2019 when they released "Knishin' In The Mission" which was followed by last month's "Turn Back The Clock" featuring Mexican Institute of Sound and Santi Mostaffa. The song and video have enjoyed surprising chart success in the Coronasphere.

In both contexts, Josh is an intensely curious and creative music business guy, with both a sense of humor and a sense of purpose. He's an artist advocate who fights for artists to receive every penny that they deserve. He has served on the boards of advocacy organizations A2IM (American Association of Independent Musicians) and Voto Latino.

Here he talks about releasing new music during a pandemic, how he approaches his collaborations, and the secrets of securing Spotify playlist placements.