Dr Zoe Kristensen and Dr Theo McTigue are pioneers. As trans and non-binary people respectively, they are living, working, and training openly in psychiatry. In years gone by, and indeed even now, there are risks associated with this visibility. Zoe and Theo explore these in depth; being pathologized, excluded, and othered. They also speak to signals of change and of allies in unexpected places. This conversation should encourage trainees and fellows of any gender to ask, if they don’t know of any trans or non-binary trainees, why is that? Zoe and Theo were interviewed by Associate Trainee Editor Michael Weightman and Trainee Editor Oliver Robertson at Congress 2022, Sydney.