In this episode Caroline and Liz have the latest on Lucy Letby’s defence case after her barrister Mark McDonald hand delivered the evidence which he says proves her convictions are unsafe, to the Criminal Cases Review Commission. So we sent Liz to have a chat with him.  

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In this update Caroline and Liz have the final day of the inquiry. Lady Justice Thirlwall rejected the application made yesterday to pause the inquiry and said she hoped her final report would be ready by November.

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Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and Liz Hull

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We are delighted to announce the launch of The Crime Desk, a brand-new podcast network which will feature some incredible new crime series we think you'll absolutely love.

To kick it off, we're going back to where it all started - with The Trial+.

Every week members of The Crime Desk will get exclusive access to brand new bonus episodes of The Trial. We will cover more cases, answer your questions, and publish mini-series about some really fascinating events.

To launch we've got a brand new mini series looking at a previously unseen report on the Countess of Chester Hospital, which employed Lucy Letby. We'll then follow it with an eye-opening series on what happens when celebrities find themselves in the dock.

It couldn't be easier to become a member, and there is a free 7 day trial available to listeners of The Trial of Lucy Letby.

To find out more, simply go to www.thecrimedesk.com - alternatively, if you're reading this in Spotify or Apple, scroll to to top of the page and hit the subscribe button.

We love bringing you this podcast, we hope you enjoy it too - if you do, your support would mean the world to us.

Caroline & Liz.

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In this episode Caroline and Liz discuss the closing statements of the families of the babies and the senior executives of the Countess of Chester Hospital. We’ve got details of the executives’ application to pause the inquiry amid claims that ‘new’ evidence could render Lucy Letby’s convictions unsafe.

And the response of the families, who argue it is simply a cynical ploy by a manipulative serial killer to control the narrative and an attempt by senior managers to avoid criticism.

We also bring you the pleas of the mums and dads in this case, who say the NHS must make changes and formally regulate senior executives to stop a similar tragedy ever happening again.

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Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and Liz Hull

Editor: Chelsey Moore

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Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini

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In this episode of the Trial Update, Caroline and Liz have the assurance the Heath Secretary Wes Streeting has given to the inquiry that what happened at the Countess of Chester Hospital should never happen anywhere else. The inquiry was also told that the Department for Health were “deeply troubled” by the way the doctors were treated by senior managers. And the hospital has now accepted for the first time that Lucy Letby should have been suspended in October 2015, before she attacked seven more babies. 

Plus we’ve got the details of two applications to pause the Thirlwall inquiry - one from Lucy Letby herself, and one from the hospital’s senior managers.

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In this emergency episode Caroline and Liz have the breaking news that detectives are now investigating certain members of staff who worked at the hospital at the time Lucy Letby was killing and harming babies. Cheshire Police have confirmed their investigation into Corporate Manslaughter, which focused on the hospital, has now been upgraded to Gross Negligence Manslaughter. That means they are now investigating individual members of staff to see whether what they did – or didn’t do - amounted to a crime. 

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Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and Liz Hull

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In this episode Caroline and Liz discuss this week’s press conference by Lucy Letby’s defence team. They go over the findings of the expert panel, who now say she isn't guilty of any murders, and compare it to the evidence scrutinised at her two trials.

They also speak to Lord Ken Macdonald KC, the former Director of Public Prosecutions, who gives his take on the Criminal Cases Review Commission and Lucy Letby’s chances of a new appeal.

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Caroline and Liz run through the evidence of the final week of witnesses, including that of Jane Tomkinson, the current chief executive of the Countess of Chester Hospital.

She tells the inquiry that things have significantly changed in the nine years since Lucy Letby murdered babies on the neo-natal unit and that senior managers are more open and better at listening to staff than before.

We also hear from an expert statistician and Cambridge academic Sir Professor David Spiegelhalter, who explains that while the 2015 spike in deaths was unusual for the Countess, it wasn’t particularly rare from a national perspective and other units had similar neo-natal mortality rates.

Caroline and Liz also talk to journalist David James Smith about Lucy Letby’s chances of securing a new appeal, and his time as a commissioner on the Criminal Cases Review Commission.

Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and Liz Hull

Editor: Chelsey Moore

Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham

Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini

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Caroline and Liz are back with the first week of evidence from the Inquiry of the New Year. They explain the testimony of MP Jeremy Hunt, who was Health Secretary, when Lucy Letby murdered and harmed babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital, in 2015 and 2016.

He apologised to the families and said he took ultimate responsibility for a failure to implement recommendations from previous NHS inquiries, which may have helped catch Lucy Letby sooner.

He talks about how it took 20 years to install independent medical examiners in hospitals and said that if one had been in post when Lucy Letby was working it might have made a difference.

Caroline and Liz also talk to barrister Tim Owen about the extraordinary press conference held by Lucy Letby’s new barrister shortly before Christmas and what this means for her attempts to overturn her convictions.

And they also discuss a speech made by MP David Davis in the House of Commons this week when he used Parliamentary privilege to call for a retrial.

Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and Liz Hull

Editor: Chelsey Ranore

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In this final episode before The Inquiry takes a break for Christmas, Caroline and Liz explain the evidence of Nicholas Rheinberg, the Senior Coroner for Cheshire. He said he was ‘horribly disappointed’ at being kept in the dark about the consultants’ concerns about Lucy Letby and horrified that the paediatricians allowed him to carry out an inquest into the death of Baby A without telling him the real reason for how they believed the baby boy died.

We also hear from Sir Rob Behrens, the former Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman. He gave evidence on the culture of the NHS and described why scandals involving patient deaths keep occurring. He said there is a small pool of individuals that run NHS hospitals who are like ‘The Magic Circle.’ He said these individuals need to be subject to regulation, like doctors and nurses, to stop the ‘revolving door’ of failing bosses moving from hospital to hospital without any detriment to their careers. 

Sir Rob also criticised the public inquiry system itself and called for the Government to set up a new body to make sure their reports and recommendations are not simply shelved, but acted upon in the future.

Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and Liz Hull

Editor: Jamie East

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