Episode 165 with guest Joel Barnett, Founder of Fortune Hill

The second in our mini-series on how marketing roles are changing, in this episode we highlight what the job market looks like right now, including: why so many senior roles are disappearing or being restructured, what companies are looking for in marketing leaders today, the importance of role clarity and expectations, and job search advice.

Joining Abby is her guest Joel Barnett, Founder and CEO of Fortune Hill, who partners with ambitious organisations to appoint Marketing, Commercial, and HR leaders to supercharge business performance and enhance culture. With decades of experience placing marketing executives across some of the UK's most recognised brands, Joel shares his honest yet optimistic assessment of where the marketing profession currently stands - and what both leaders and organisations need to do differently.

Key takeaways

• The CMO title is disappearing… More recruitment briefs are coming through as Chief Growth Officer or Chief Customer Officer, as the CMO role itself is being disaggregated

• Why are CMO tenures getting shorter... Joel reflects that marketing leaders share some of the responsibility, through poorly managed expectations, a reluctance to have difficult conversations, and in some cases, overstating what they can and will deliver

• The brief is broken… 75% of unsuccessful hires come down to a poorly constructed brief. Companies are hiring to solve a short-term problem, prioritising sector experience over the character traits that determine long-term success.

• Tips for leaders... Hire first for character, then capability and finally experience - too often organisations hire the CV but fire what isn't CV-related.

• Taking the reins of your job search... The job market is tough and there is a significant supply and demand imbalance right now. Joel's advice: treat your job search like a marketing campaign, be the driver not the passenger, and don't take a role just for the title.

00:00 — Welcome to the Whole Marketer Podcast

02:33 — Introducing Joel Barnett

03:00 — What Marketing Leadership Is Really For

05:12 — The CMO Title Is Disappearing — What's Replacing It

08:00 — The Disaggregation of the Marketing Role

12:28 — Marketing is Being Stretched and Squeezed Simultaneously

14:53 — The Most Important Trait in a Modern Marketing Leader

16:57 — The Leadership Piece People Overlook

19:23 — The Conversations Marketing Leaders Aren't Having

21:37 — Why CMO Tenure Is Shorter Than It Should Be

26:26 — The Cost of Tolerating Average

31:18 — Resilience, Coaching, and Not Going It Alone

33:38 — Why Senior Marketing Roles Are Being Cut

38:03 — The State of the Job Market Right Now

41:00 — How to Search for a Role Like a Marketer

45:28 — On Being Selective — and Knowing It's Never Too Late to Pivot

47:53 — How to Make a Better Senior Marketing Hire

50:19 — Hire for Character Before Credentials

53:00 — Joel's Advice: Learn the Language of the Room

Resources

The Whole Marketer 'Define your ideal role' resource – free download

https://thewholemarketer.com/resources/

The Whole Marketer 'Take the reins of your career' resource – free download

https://thewholemarketer.com/resources/

The Whole Marketer 'Develop your authentic leadership style' resource – free download

https://thewholemarketer.com/resources/

Are Marketers facing a clarity crisis? - Marketing Week article

https://thewholemarketer.com/mw-article-clarity/

Host: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abigailcdixon/

Guest: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelbarnettfortunehill/

About The Whole Marketer

The Whole Marketer podcast is here to support and empower the people behind brands and businesses with the latest technical tools, soft and leadership skills and personal understanding for a fulfilling marketing career and life as a whole.

Did you know The Whole Marketer is more than a podcast and book? We're your trusted partners for marketing capability and transformation, providing consultancy, training & workshops, speaking, coaching, mentoring and trusted advisory service.

Visit www.thewholemarketer.com to see how we support leaders to build successful and fulfilled marketing teams with the holistic skills to lead the long-term commercial agenda and deliver the true potential of marketing.

Contact [email protected] to get in touch with Abby and the team

Episode 164 with guest Charlotte Rogers, Marketing Week's Deputy Managing Editor and Head of Insight

We're kicking off a brand new mini-series about how marketing roles are changing and its impact, and in this episode we discuss this as well as shine a light on widespread and worrying challenges facing marketers today.

Based on the findings from Marketing Week's 2026 Career and Salary Survey (2,300+ respondents) we're discussing expanding remits, senior roles disappearing, burnout, imposter syndrome, stalled progression, a persistent understanding gap at board level – and what we need to do about it.

Joining Abby is Marketing Week's Charlotte Rogers, Deputy Managing Editor and Head of Insight at Marketing Week. Having worked at Marketing Week for a decade, she is fascinated writing about the marketing industry both in the UK and worldwide and leads on the publication's proprietary research projects, as well as the wider features, and is the co-host of the Marketing Week podcast.

Key takeaways

• Our marketing profession is in crisis… Marketing roles are expanding and restructuring, often without clear resource or support. Half of respondents said their team had restructured and senior leaders are being cut and not replaced.

• Burnout is a real risk… Many marketers feel overwhelmed (65%), undervalued, questioning their skills, facing imposter syndrome, and emotionally exhausted. 53% no longer enjoy work that used to engage them.

• There is a persistent lack of understanding of marketing's true value within organisations and marketers are feeling the pressure to defend it… leading to not speaking up about mental health because they're carrying their own issues AND the weight of the profession's perception.

• We have a progression crisis… 70% of marketers saw no career progression in the past year. It's hitting parents and women the hardest as 44.6% of mothers said being a parent had harmed their progression, vs 7.6% of fathers.

• What do we need to do… the only way out of the cycle is for marketers to start advocating for themselves, setting boundaries, and being honest about what is and isn't deliverable. It's not easy but marketing leaders need to speak up for themselves and marketers in their care.

00:00 — Welcome to the Whole Marketer Podcast

02:33 — Introducing Charlotte Rogers

02:58 — The State of Marketing Right Now What the 2026 Career & Salary Survey is revealing about how marketers are feeling

07:00 — More Responsibility, Senior Roles Disappearing

09:29 — Why Marketing Still Struggles to Prove Its Value

12:47 — Afraid to Move, Unhappy to Stay

15:04 — The AI Pressure and the Skills We Actually Need

16:21 — Burnout, Imposter Syndrome, and Suffering in Silence - Two years of mental health data

19:09 — The Added Weight of Defending the Whole Profession

21:23 — Restructures, Rebrands, and Shifting Job Titles

26:16 — The Cost of Constant Change

30:59 — On Saying No (and Why Pushing Back is So Difficult)

33:21 — The Progression Gap Is Worse for Parents

37:19 — Flexibility as a Right, Not a Favour

40:56 — What Marketers Can Control

44:39 — Charlotte's Advice: Know Your Value

Resources

Blog: Burnout - How Leaders Can Support Those In Their Care - The Whole Marketer

https://www.marketingweek.com/abigail-dixon-marketer-resilience/

Marketing Week - https://www.marketingweek.com/

Host: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abigailcdixon/

Guest: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlotterogers/

About The Whole Marketer

The Whole Marketer podcast is here to support and empower the people behind brands and businesses with the latest technical tools, soft and leadership skills and personal understanding for a fulfilling marketing career and life as a whole.

Did you know The Whole Marketer is more than a podcast and book? We're your trusted partners for marketing capability and transformation, providing consultancy, training & workshops, speaking, coaching, mentoring and trusted advisory service.

Visit www.thewholemarketer.com to see how we support leaders to build successful and fulfilled marketing teams with the holistic skills to lead the long-term commercial agenda and deliver the true potential of marketing.

Contact [email protected] to get in touch with Abby and the team

Episode #163. This episode is a holistic topic that impacts not only what we do, but how and why – it's the power of being different. We know being distinctive is fundamental for building successful, memorable brands, so today's episode will discuss not only this but why it's vital for marketers to develop the skills and behaviours to be brave and embrace being different at work and in their lives as a whole.

Abby's guest expert on today's episode is Amy Kean, best-selling author, columnist, speaker, voice for change in the advertising and media industry and founder of Good Shout which is an L&D company that brings out the human in people. As a strategist and creative leader, Amy trains teams on how to communicate, collaborate and learn from one another, championing unrepresentative voices and pushing businesses to move from token gestures to tangible action.

In this episode, Amy shares her of definition of embracing difference, why we shouldn't play it safe, culture vs trends, why difference matters in marketing and practical ways for you to embrace difference. Plus Amy's advice for marketers of tomorrow.

00:00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and The Power of Being Different

00:03:40 What Does Embracing Difference Mean?

00:05:23 Front Stage vs. Backstage Selves

00:09:15 Leadership Pressure to Perform and Prove Themselves

00:12:53 The Japan Airlines Buddhist Monk Case Study

00:17:31 The Power of Difference in Marketing

00:22:31 Why Difference Matters

00:25:45 Cultural Trends vs. Fads

00:28:16 Unlocking Difference: Confidence and Self-Belief

00:30:08 Practical Ways to Embrace Difference

00:35:57 Creativity, Safe Spaces, and Community Support

00:37:18 Career Highs and Learnings

00:43:10 Advice for Marketers of Tomorrow

Host: Abigail Dixon FCIM/ICF | LinkedIn

Guest: 💥 Amy Kean 💥 | LinkedIn

The Whole Marketer podcast is here to support and empower the people behind brands and businesses with the latest technical tools, soft and leadership skills and personal understanding for a fulfilling marketing career and life as a whole.

Did you know The Whole Marketer is more than a podcast and book? We're your trusted partners for marketing capability and transformation, providing consultancy, training & workshops, speaking, coaching, mentoring and trusted advisory service.

Visit www.thewholemarketer.com to see how we support leaders to build marketing teams with the holistic skills to lead the long-term commercial agenda and deliver the true potential of marketing.

Contact [email protected] to get in touch with Abby and the team

Episode #162. A topic of personal understanding, today we're discussing personal branding for marketers – the benefits of embracing the LinkedIn platform to connect, share your voice, learn, inspire, network and for your future career development.

Abby's guest expert is Laura Fox who helps individuals and companies to use LinkedIn to their advantage, whether for visibility, growth or leadership positioning. After working at LinkedIn for over 7 years, Laura set up the LinkedIn Fox as a LinkedIn strategist, trainer and speaker – working with a range of clients from individuals and SMEs to large scale companies like Mattel, Unilever, London Business School and more

In this episode, Laura shares her definition of building personal brands, the real-life benefits of doing so, overcoming fears and time constraints, best practice for engagement, plus Laura's 3Ps to start to build your personal brand.

Plus Laura's advice for marketers of tomorrow.

00:00:00 Welcome and Introduction to Personal Branding

00:02:46 Defining Personal Brand on LinkedIn

00:04:33 Being Memorable and Relatable

00:06:45 Real-World Benefits of LinkedIn

00:09:40 Overcoming Barriers to Using LinkedIn

00:11:19 Best Practice Approach for Success

00:18:03 Measuring: Quality Over Quantity

00:24:48 Personal vs. Company Use of LinkedIn

00:28:19 Laura Fox's Three P's Framework

00:32:51 Advice for Marketers of Tomorrow

Host: Abigail Dixon FCIM/ICF | LinkedIn

Guest: Laura Fox | LinkedIn

The Whole Marketer podcast is here to support and empower the people behind brands and businesses with the latest technical tools, soft and leadership skills and personal understanding for a fulfilling marketing career and life as a whole.

Did you know The Whole Marketer is more than a podcast and book? We're your trusted partners for marketing capability and transformation, providing consultancy, training & workshops, speaking, coaching, mentoring and trusted advisory service.

Visit www.thewholemarketer.com to see how we support leaders to build marketing teams with the holistic skills to lead the long-term commercial agenda and deliver the true potential of marketing.

Contact [email protected] to get in touch with Abby and the team

Episode #161. Today's episode is a personal understanding topic focused on self-belief, which comes from knowing yourself and owning your strengths, your talents, your past experiences to help you build trust in your future choices.

Joining Abby is legendary senior marketer, M&S's Sharry Cramond. Sharry is a multi-award winning marketer – named in the list of the world's top 100 marketers as well as The Marketing Society's prestigious Inspirational Leader award. With a wealth of experience, Sharry leads marketing for Marks and Spencer, one of the UK's most loved and trusted brands and is published author of 'Win Your Lottery".

In this episode, Sharry shares her personal story and perspective on self-belief, why it's important for marketers, examples of how she applies positive mindset, and the power of goal-setting. As well as telling the M&S case study about how they have leveraged their workforce to become brand ambassadors.

Plus Sharry's 'Highs and Grows' and advice for marketers of tomorrow

00:00:00 Introduction to Self-Belief and Mindset

00:02:38 Sharry's Perspective on Self-Belief

00:05:30 The Importance of Self-Belief for Marketers

00:08:17 Building Self-Belief: Shari's Personal Story

00:13:24 Developing a 'Healthy Thinking Diet'

00:15:26 Radiators vs. Drains: Energy, Attitude and Mindset

00:21:16 Accountability and Achieving Goals

00:22:52 Belief and Commitment in Teams

00:26:30 Key Behaviours for Career Success

00:31:18 The M&S Ambassador Case Study

00:39:54 Sharry's Career Highs and 'Grows'

Host: Abigail Dixon FCIM/ICF | LinkedIn

Guest: Sharry Cramond | LinkedIn

The Whole Marketer podcast is here to support and empower the people behind brands and businesses with the latest technical tools, soft and leadership skills and personal understanding for a fulfilling marketing career and life as a whole.

Did you know The Whole Marketer is more than a podcast and book? We're your trusted partners for marketing capability and transformation, providing consultancy, training & workshops, speaking, coaching, mentoring and trusted advisory service.

Visit www.thewholemarketer.com to see how we support leaders to build marketing teams with the holistic skills to lead the long-term commercial agenda and deliver the true potential of marketing.

Contact [email protected] to get in touch with Abby and the team

Episode #160. Today's episode is a personal understanding topic on career development, empowering marketers to take the reins of your career by ensuring we are building skills and behaviours to achieve our ideal role and also our future career goals.

Abby's guest is Veronika Kryuchkova, Global Head of Capability for Reckitt. As a global marketing and transformation leader with two decades of experience launching, scaling and turning around brands including at Johnson and Johnson, Teva and Reckitt - and podcast host of Get Superpowered - she is passionate about the human side of transformation, helping teams and organisations build the capabilities they need and career development.

In this episode, Veronika explains being intentional in career choices, key skills for marketers of the future and creating a culture of learning. Plus she introduces the concept of the capability stack and core, human, and future capabilities

Plus Veronika shares her career high and lows and advice for marketers of tomorrow.

00:00:00 Welcome and Introduction to Career Development

00:03:00 Defining Career Development

00:05:04 Intentionality and the Capability Stack

00:09:12 Core, Human, and Future Capabilities

00:14:15 The Importance of Marketers Owning Their Careers

00:15:49 Forces Shaping Marketing Careers

00:21:58 Key Skills for Future Marketers

00:25:43 The Role of Curiosity and Collaboration

00:33:13 Embedding Skills Beyond Training

00:37:42 Leadership's Role in Learning Culture

00:39:45 Veronika's Career Highs and Lows

00:43:56 Advice for Marketers of Tomorrow

Host: Abigail Dixon FCIM/ICF | LinkedIn

Guest: Veronika Kryuchkova | LinkedIn

The Whole Marketer podcast is here to support and empower the people behind brands and businesses with the latest technical tools, soft and leadership skills and personal understanding for a fulfilling marketing career and life as a whole.

Did you know The Whole Marketer is more than a podcast and book? We're your trusted partners for marketing capability and transformation, providing consultancy, training & workshops, speaking, coaching, mentoring and trusted advisory service.

Visit www.thewholemarketer.com to see how we support leaders to build marketing teams with the holistic skills to lead the long-term commercial agenda and deliver the true potential of marketing.

Contact [email protected] to get in touch with Abby and the team

Episode #159. Our first episode of 2026 is a personal understanding and leadership topic on authentic leadership with advice from a senior marketer on key leadership skills and finding your style.

Joining Abby is her guest David Enwright, Marketing Director at the Post Office and a long-time advocate for inclusive, human-centred leadership. With a career spanning HSBC, RBS, Allianz, and the Post Office, he has built a reputation for delivering commercial impact while creating environments where people feel safe, valued, and genuinely able to thrive. As a recognised role model for inclusive leadership, David leads with honesty and empathy, and brings lived experiences and candour to some of businesses most complex challenges.

In this episode, David shares his definition of authentic leadership, the importance of deep active listening, trust and psychological safety, and how he has developed his authentic leadership style. Plus, David's career highs and lows and advice for marketers of tomorrow.

00:00:00 Welcome and Introduction to Authentic Leadership

00:02:47 Defining of Authentic Leadership

00:05:00 David's Leadership Style

00:06:25 The Importance of Deep Listening

00:08:28 Creating the Right Environment for Conversations

00:09:46 Arriving at an Authentic Leadership Style

00:12:08 Learning from Mistakes and Personal Loss

00:16:05 Recognizing and Preventing Burnout

00:17:51 Building Psychological Safety and Trust

00:21:11 Benefits of Psychological Safety

00:23:09 Encouraging Bold Ideas and Growth Mindset

00:24:47 David's Career Highs and Lows

00:26:58 Advice for Marketers of Tomorrow

Host: Abigail Dixon FCIM/ICF | LinkedIn

Guest: David Enwright | LinkedIn

The Whole Marketer podcast is here to support and empower the people behind brands and businesses with the latest technical tools, soft and leadership skills and personal understanding for a fulfilling marketing career and life as a whole.

Did you know The Whole Marketer is more than a podcast and book? We're your trusted partners for marketing capability and transformation, providing consultancy, training & workshops, speaking, coaching, mentoring and trusted advisory service.

Visit www.thewholemarketer.com to see how we support leaders to build marketing teams with the holistic skills to lead the long-term commercial agenda and deliver the true potential of marketing.

Contact [email protected] to get in touch with Abby and the team

Episode #158. Today's episode is a technical skill on effective brand building and the considerations and competencies you need to build a brand; including the importance of clarity on your strategic choices and the movement you want to make through SMART objectives to ladder up to the commercial objectives.

Abby's guest is experienced, award-winning marketing leader and friend of the podcast Andrew Geoghegan, Group Chief Marketing Officer at William Grant & Sons and ex PZ Cussons and Diageo. His paper on creating a culture of effectiveness at Diageo won Gold, Best New Learning, and Best Use of Data from the IPA and he has been recognised as one of the top 100 marketers by Marketing Week.

In this episode, Andrew shares his experience of brand building and practical advice from his book 'Effective brand building' including organisational context when brand building, making strategic choices, meeting your consumer where they are and how to win/keep winning.

Plus Andrew's highs and lows (since he last appeared on our podcast) and advice for marketers of tomorrow.

Host: Abigail Dixon FCIM/ICF | LinkedIn

Guest: Andrew Geoghegan | LinkedIn

The Whole Marketer podcast is here to support and empower the people behind brands and businesses with the latest technical tools, soft and leadership skills and personal understanding for a fulfilling marketing career and life as a whole.

Did you know The Whole Marketer is more than a podcast and book? We're your trusted partners for marketing capability and transformation, providing consultancy, training & workshops, speaking, coaching, mentoring and trusted advisory service.

Visit www.thewholemarketer.com to see how we support leaders to build marketing teams with the holistic skills to lead the long-term commercial agenda and deliver the true potential of marketing.

Contact [email protected] to get in touch with Abby and the team

Episode #157. We're focusing on burnout on today's episode, an issue we regularly and will continue to raise awareness of in our profession. We are passionate about providing support to empower you with the signs and actions you can take to aid in prevention and recovery in our fast-paced, challenging yet rewarding marketing profession.

Joining Abby on this episode is guest expert Dr Richard Duggins, Associate Medical Director for culture and leadership at Kent NHS Foundation Trust and a leading voice on staff wellbeing. A psychiatrist, psychotherapist and leadership coach, Richard has spent nearly two decades helping healthcare and other professionals recover from burnout, anxiety and depression. His work blends clinical expertise with deep insights into organisational culture and he leads a specialist regional wellbeing service for over 175,000 health and social care staff and works with the NHS practitioner help.

In this episode, Richard shares insights from his book 'Burnout-Free Working: Your Expert Guide to Thriving in Stressful Workplaces' and discusses what burnout is, warning signs that you're on the edge of the burnout cliff and 5 ways to avoid it. Plus practical frameworks like the "exhaustion funnel" and "drain and radiators" and finding a decompression activity to boost your energy.

Plus Richard's advice for marketers of tomorrow.

00:00:00 Introduction to Burnout

00:02:31 Defining Burnout

00:04:22 Recognizing Burnout in Ourselves and Others

00:07:32 The Exhaustion Funnel

00:09:16 The Burnout Cliff

00:13:00 Personal and Professional Factors in Burnout

00:17:36 Impact of Perfectionism

00:21:42 Resilience

00:21:50 Radiators and Drains Model

00:29:09 Five Ways to Prevent Burnout

00:35:11 Looking Out for Others: The Three L's

00:39:09 Building a Supportive Culture

00:40:02 Final Advice for Marketers

Host: Abigail Dixon FCIM/ICF | LinkedIn

Guest: Dr Richard Duggins | LinkedIn

The Whole Marketer podcast is here to support and empower the people behind brands and businesses with the latest technical tools, soft and leadership skills and personal understanding for a fulfilling marketing career and life as a whole.

Did you know The Whole Marketer is more than a podcast and book? We're your trusted partners for marketing capability and transformation, providing consultancy, training & workshops, speaking, coaching, mentoring and trusted advisory service.

Visit www.thewholemarketer.com to see how we support leaders to build marketing teams with the holistic skills to lead the long-term commercial agenda and deliver the true potential of marketing.

Contact [email protected] to get in touch with Abby and the team

Episode #156. This episode of personal understanding is a skill for marketers in our ever-changing, challenging yet rewarding profession.

We're discussing resilience - not to be confused with endurance. We believe building resilience is about individuals feeling empowered to proactively put in place what they need to ensure that they have the energy and wellbeing levels to deal with day-to-day life and setbacks when they inevitably occur.

Abby's guest expert on this topic is Drew Povey, author, leadership coach and mentor with over 25 years professional experience in multi-sector, executive level leadership across a wide range of sectors including elite sport, corporate, nonprofit and government settings. Drew's recently published book 'When the Clouds Come: Dealing with Difficulties, Facing Your Fears, and Overcoming Obstacles' includes his models and tools to support leaders with resilience.

In this episode, Drew shares his definition of resilience, building resilience like a muscle and practical models from his book, including the "Five H's" for effective leadership in tough times and BEST LIFE for well-being.

Plus Drew's advice for marketers of tomorrow to build their tolerance to change.

00:00:00 Welcome and Introduction to Resilience

00:01:11 Defining Resilience vs. Endurance

00:03:41 Drew Povey's Perspective on Resilience

00:07:30 Resilience and Well-being

00:12:06 Drew Povey's Book: When the Clouds Come

00:15:21 The Cloud Analogy

00:20:32 "BEST LIFE" Model

00:23:01 Building Resilience Like a Muscle

00:28:03 Perspective and Leadership During Change

00:33:40 The Three P's Model for Difficult Times

00:38:10 Change as a Process, Not an Event

00:38:56 The Five H's for Dealing with Difficulty

00:47:55 The Power of Pause in Leadership

00:51:32 Summary and Final Reflections

00:52:07 Final Advice for Marketers of Tomorrow

Host: Abigail Dixon FCIM/ICF | LinkedIn

Guest: Drew Povey | LinkedIn

When the Clouds Come: Dealing with Difficulties, Facing Your Fears, and Overcoming Obstacles: Dealing with Difficulties, Facing Your Fears, and Overcoming Obstacles: Amazon.co.uk: Povey, Drew: 9780857089175: Books

The Whole Marketer podcast is here to support and empower the people behind brands and businesses with the latest technical tools, soft and leadership skills and personal understanding for a fulfilling marketing career and life as a whole.

Did you know The Whole Marketer is more than a podcast and book? We're your trusted partners for marketing capability and transformation, providing consultancy, training & workshops, speaking, coaching, mentoring and trusted advisory service.

Visit www.thewholemarketer.com to see how we support leaders to build marketing teams with the holistic skills to lead the long-term commercial agenda and deliver the true potential of marketing.

Contact [email protected] to get in touch with Abby and the team