This week, I am in conversation with Linda Buzzell who is a psychotherapist, ecotherapist, author, and pioneer in the field of ecopsychology, working at the intersection of psychology, ecology, and culture since the late 1990s.

Linda co-edited 'Ecotherapy: Healing with Nature in Mind' with Craig Chalquist and has written widely on the ecological crisis as both a psychological and spiritual challenge.

In this episode, we explore what ecotherapy truly means - not as a treatment or technique, but as a way of healing our relationship with the living Earth.

We talk about nature as therapist, community as medicine, and what it means to move from a culture of domination to one of partnership and reciprocity.

Topics include:

• Ecotherapy as healing our relationship with our home world.
• Level one vs level two ecotherapy from personal benefit to reciprocal, culture-shifting practice.
• Nature as the ultimate therapist practitioner as catalyst, guide, witness.
• Eco-psychotherapy within clinical practice and the wider, community-facing field of ecotherapy.
• Zookosis in animals as a mirror for human nature-deficit and why habitats matter for sanity.
• Evidence beyond exercise research showing green and blue contact improves mood and health.
• Caution on “nature prescriptions” moving beyond individual fixes to place, community, and systems.
• Rooting in place bioregionalism, terra psychology, and rebuilding bonds with land.
• Decolonising therapy learning from Indigenous wisdom without appropriation and with repair.
• From dominator culture to partnership Riane Eisler’s lens and McGilchrist’s hemispheres.
• Eco-spirituality reclaiming the sacred through seasons, ceremony, bodies, and relational awe.
• The path of hope small groups, community ecotherapy, and standing together for the living world.

Shownotes:

https://theoutdoorteacher.com/podcasts/episode-77-the-deeper-work-of-ecotherapy-with-linda-buzzell/

Music by Geoff Robb: www.geoffrobb.com 

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In this episode, Marina reflects on power, responsibility, and duty of care. As November marks a season of endings and beginnings, she looks beneath the surface of our systems — from education to environment, and asks what happens when we stop paying attention, and what it costs us when we do.

This conversation traces the threads between integrity and innocence, corruption and accountability, and how our personal and professional ethics shape the wider ecology we live within.

Key ideas explored

• The uneasy link between wealth, power, and moral compromise
• November as a time for renewal
• How concentrated power in health, education, and business leads us to protect ourselves instead of our purpose
• Teachers and leaders navigating the “topside world” while tending what lies beneath — our own psychology and hidden systems
• Moving beyond naïveté without losing hope or care
• Reclaiming duty of care — asking whether our systems live up to the ethics we teach
• Practicing stewardship: leaving no trace, enhancing biodiversity, and restoring the flow of responsibility

Shownotes:

https://theoutdoorteacher.com/podcasts/episode-76-the-cost-of-looking-away/

Music by Geoff Robb: www.geoffrobb.com 

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In this episode, I’m speaking with Ash Smith, the founder of Windrush Against Sewage Pollution. A retired Detective Superintendent, former angler and scuba diver, Ash has spent the last eight years investigating the truth about what’s happening in our rivers.

His love for the natural world, combined with a deep sense of justice, led him to gather a team of committed people from different disciplines to form one of the most effective groups holding water companies and regulators to account.

In our conversation, Ash shares what’s really going on with our rivers, the scale of sewage pollution, and the failures of government and regulatory bodies to protect our waterways.

This is a passionate, evidence-based discussion, grounded in data that you can find on the WASP website. The Windrush itself flows for 65 kilometers from Gloucestershire into the Thames - but this story reaches far beyond one river. It speaks to the health of our ecosystems, and to our own health as well.

Topics include:

• A vivid picture of what a living, healthy river once was — and how the “new normal” hides a quiet collapse.
• How WASP (Windrush Against Sewage Pollution) turns citizen science and data analysis into undeniable proof of illegal pollution.
• The shocking reality of regulators who no longer investigate — and water companies marking their own homework.
• What happens when public services are sold off and profit replaces purpose.
• The money trail — how customers fund dividends while private shareholders drain the system.
• Why some water companies are now in “special measures” and what real accountability could look like
• Ash’s journey from detective superintendent to river defender — following the evidence wherever it leads.
• The quiet power of ordinary people who refuse to look away.
• How anger can become fuel for change rather than despair.
• Practical ways to take action — join with others, use local data, and make enough noise to tip the balance

Shownotes:

https://theoutdoorteacher.com/podcasts/episode-75-the-river-of-truth-with-ash-smith/

Music by Geoff Robb: www.geoffrobb.com 

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In this reflective solo episode, Marina explores how the changing seasons, our ancestral roots, and the social history of education help us question what learning really means today.

We journey from postwar Britain to the present classroom, asking how we can reimagine education as something alive, relational, and grounded in nature.

Topics include:

• Gratitude for autumn, the changing light, and small comforts that sustain us.
• Reflection on the natural cycle of endings and beginnings and what it teaches us about renewal.
• The symbolism of the elder and birch trees as reminders of wisdom, letting go, and new growth.
• Honouring ancestors and recognising what we’ve inherited through culture and family.
• The importance of doing inner work that leads to outer change in our communities and classrooms.
• Revisiting postwar Britain to understand how education emerged as a social contract for fairness and democracy.
• The 1944 Butler Act and its vision for universal education and rebuilding society after the war.
• Remembering that education is a system, while learning is an organic, lifelong process that transforms who we are.
• The tension between authority and shared power in schools and what that means for children’s voices.
• A call to reimagine education as something rooted in wellbeing, curiosity, and connection to the living world.

Shownotes:

https://theoutdoorteacher.com/podcasts/episode-74-what-is-education-for-now

Music by Geoff Robb: www.geoffrobb.com 

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My guest today is Suzanne Welch, Education Partnership Manager at the RSPB, the UK’s largest nature conservation charity with over a million members, and in this episode she explores what it would mean to make nature a right in education and why it’s time to rethink the purpose.

Suzanne has spent decades in outdoor learning - from taking inner-city children to the Thames foreshore, where subjects like science, history and geography came alive, to now convening national partnerships and influencing education policy. Her work is driven by a vision that every child should have access to high-quality learning in, with and for nature.

In this episode Suzanne Welch...

• Challenges the outdated knowledge-based model and invites a shift toward enquiry and relational learning.
• Reflects on her early work taking inner-city children to the River Thames and witnessing their transformation outdoors.
• Emphasises joy, curiosity and presence as the foundations of meaningful learning.
• Highlights how outdoor experiences naturally connect subjects like science, history, art and geography.
• Argues that learning shouldn’t be siloed because our minds don’t operate in compartments.
• Points to the early years sector as an example of where outdoor and child-led learning already works well.
• Questions about why these principles fade as children move through the education system.
• Explains how assessment and measurement culture have narrowed what counts as learning.
• Calls for systemic rather than incremental change and a national conversation about the true purpose of education.
• Advocates for a statutory right for every child to learn in with and for nature.
• Notes that equitable access currently depends on postcode school leadership and teacher enthusiasm.
• Ends with a simple invitation start with one outdoor lesson listen to young people and let hope lead change.

Shownotes: https://theoutdoorteacher.com/podcasts/making-nature-a-right-in-education-suzanne-welch/

Music by Geoff Robb: www.geoffrobb.com 

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In this closing episode of Season 9, I’m exploring something that feels urgent in our times: the difference between education and learning.

Education is often about systems, metrics, and tests — but learning is about life itself. It happens in forests, green spaces, kitchens, and communities. It’s experiential, embodied, relational, and remembered because we live it.

With the rise of AI, increasing mental health challenges, and the fast pace of our lives, we need to ask: what skills truly matter now, and how can we reimagine learning so every young person leaves not just with knowledge, but with self-worth, connection, and a sense of agency?

Topics include:

• The urgent difference between education and learning, and why it matters now more than ever.
• Why formal schooling often leaves young people without confidence, agency, or self-worth.
• The danger of convergent thinking and the value of divergent, creative, and adaptive skills.
• Experiential learning: Why we remember fire-lighting, foraging, and play more than worksheets.
• The principles of autism-informed, trauma-informed, and consent-based practice as foundations for real learning.
• The Outdoor Teacher Approach: Play-based, body-led, and relational rather than hierarchical.
• The opportunity (and risk) of the UK’s new climate curriculum, and why connection, not just knowledge, is key.
• The Children’s Fire principle and what it means to educate with future generations — all children, human and more-than-human, at the heart.

Shownotes:

https://theoutdoorteacher.com/podcasts/episode-72-learning-for-life

Music by Geoff Robb: www.geoffrobb.com 

Please Rate, Review, & Follow on Apple Podcasts

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In this episode of the Wild Minds Podcast, I’m in conversation with Mac Macartney, a storyteller, leader, and founder of Embercombe, exploring what it means to live and lead in service to life.

In this far-reaching conversation, we explore The Children’s Fire — an ancient principle that no law, decision, or action should harm the young of any species, and how it might transform leadership, education, and our relationship with the natural world.

We talk about education rooted in the simple yet radical commitment that no child should leave school without feeling good about who they are, and the power of play as an antidote to a culture that leaves so many children, and adults, masking their pain and feeling worthless beneath the surface.

Topics include:

• Exploring The Children’s Fire — the ancient principle that no decision should harm the young of any species.
• Reimagining education so no child leaves school without feeling good about themselves.
• Unpacking the hubris of superiority — how our systems consistently enforce it.
• The power of play and nature connection as antidotes to hopelessness and masking how we truly feel.
• Insights from Mac’s leadership company on redefining the purpose of business — beyond profit and growth — and valuing well-rounded human beings.
• Reflections on indigenous wisdom, community ownership, and leadership rooted in service rather than self-interest.
• A call to rethink wealth, power, and responsibility so that resources and decisions serve the many, not the few.
• An invitation to imagine a more joyful, courageous, and humane society.

Shownotes:

https://theoutdoorteacher.com/podcasts/episode-71-mac-macartney-interview

Music by Geoff Robb: www.geoffrobb.com 

Please Rate, Review, & Follow on Apple Podcasts

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In this episode of Wild Minds, I'm exploring what it’s like to have big questions that don’t always fit into your job title. Whether you’re a teacher, therapist, or just someone who feels things deeply, this conversation is about the risk, and importance, of staying open, curious, and honest in times of change.

Topics include:

• What it feels like to hide parts of yourself in professional spaces
• The fear of sounding “too out there” or being seen as unprofessional
• Why curiosity and wonder matter more than ever, especially in helping roles
• How feelings and intuition often get pushed aside—even though they guide so much of our real understanding
• A look at where our sense of mind and consciousness might actually come from
• How Indigenous wisdom and quantum science both challenge the idea that we’re separate from nature
• What happens in our body when we feel awe or connection
• Why being open-minded isn’t soft or silly—it’s essential for making sense of the world

Show Notes:

https://theoutdoorteacher.com/podcasts/episode-70-scientific-enough-to-wonder

Music by Geoff Robb: www.geoffrobb.com 

Please Rate, Review, & Follow on Apple Podcasts

If you have enjoyed today's episode, please consider rating and reviewing my show!

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In this powerful and expansive conversation, Pam Montgomery (teacher, author, and plant spirit ally) invites us into a deeper relationship with the natural world.

We explore what it means to communicate with plants, how to trust our intuition, and how ancient ways of knowing are being remembered at this time of global rebirth.

In this episode....

• Through personal story, scientific insights, and spiritual practice, Pam helps us reimagine our role in the web of life.
• Pam’s grandmother introduced her to the idea of talking with plants – a formative influence that shaped her lifelong path.
• Communication with plants isn’t imaginary; it’s relational, vibrational, and increasingly supported by emerging science.
• Devices like those from Damanhur allow us to hear plants "sing," revealing their responsiveness to intention and environment.
• True communication happens through resonance, light, and sound – not just words – with the heart as the central sensing organ.
• We are vibrational beings too; like plants, we can tune into our environment and one another on subtle energetic levels.
• Pam describes “first voice” – the intuitive message that arrives before the rational mind interrupts – and how she trains herself to listen to it.
• Slowing down and entering the present moment opens a “portal” to meaningful encounters with nature.
• Nettle is explored as a plant ally that wakes us up and demands presence, while yarrow helps with energetic boundaries and healing.
• Nature responds when we become coherent – as our nervous systems settle, the world around us comes closer.
• Bonding with nature releases oxytocin, the “love hormone,” which initiates the body’s restorative response.
• We are already in relationship with plants through our breath – consciously acknowledging this can be a gateway to deeper connection.
• Pam speaks of a global rebirth and the possibility of a “new earth” rooted in interbeing, where all life can thrive together.

Show Notes:

https://theoutdoorteacher.com/podcasts/episode-69-plant-communication-with-pam-montgomery/

Music by Geoff Robb: www.geoffrobb.com 

Please Rate, Review, & Follow on Apple Podcasts

If you have enjoyed today's episode, please consider rating and reviewing my show!

This really helps me to spread the word to more people like you, and to empower more people to take their practice outdoors!

Click here, scroll to the bottom, tap to rate with five stars, and select “Write a Review.” Then let me know what you loved most about the episode!

Also, if you haven’t done so already, "follow" the podcast, as if you’re not following, there’s a good chance you’ll miss out. 

In this solo episode, I'm reflecting on the quiet strength it takes to pause, listen, and allow our inner world to guide how we show up - especially in uncertain times.

This season is taking an interesting turn as I find myself paying closer attention to my inner life - to sensations, to moment-by-moment shifts, and to the subtle places where I might be reacting. I’m learning to be alongside feelings, not rushing past them, but staying curious.

In this episode, Marina explores:

• Beginning with a moment of feeling off-track, and the choice to stop and listen inwardly.
• Reflecting on the value of not knowing - and how uncertainty can be fertile ground.
• How discomfort is offered not as something to fix, but as a doorway to something deeper.
• An honest look at how ego can subtly shape even well-intentioned work.
• Inviting us to stay rooted in the body, in the earth, and in our own deep sensing
• How grief and disorientation are acknowledged as natural responses to collapsing systems.
• How there’s reassurance that we don’t need all the answers in order to stay in service.
• How true leadership may mean staying with the unknown rather than rushing through it.
• Reflecting on Joseph Cornell’s approach - beginning from a felt state that sets the tone for learning, and how Flow Learning starts from inner alignment
• Ending with an invitation to keep listening to the thread of life - and letting it guide the way

Show Notes:

https://theoutdoorteacher.com/podcasts/episode-68-leading-with-our-inner-life/

Music by Geoff Robb: www.geoffrobb.com 

Please Rate, Review, & Follow on Apple Podcasts

If you have enjoyed today's episode, please consider rating and reviewing my show!

This really helps me to spread the word to more people like you, and to empower more people to take their practice outdoors!

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Also, if you haven’t done so already, "follow" the podcast, as if you’re not following, there’s a good chance you’ll miss out. 

Mentioned in this episode:

Free Course in Forest School Activities

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