Therapist Uncensored Podcast

Not only does Bob Schneider (professional musician and wicked Creative) share his navigation of emotion as he writes music, in this in-depth conversation he also shares personal information about his therapy and recovery with Sue Marriott.  He goes on to describe mediocre versus great therapy, how to train your critical brain like your dog, and taking in tons of information like a whale and spitting out “song turds” from his unconscious. Blending anecdotal stories, neuroscience and attachment theory, this interview both entertains and educates.

Bonus section:  Sue discusses an extended excerpt of Schneider’s song, “Let the Light In” from an attachment perspective.

IN THIS EPISODE:

The Dark Side Of Therapy: Recognizing When The Therapeutic Relationship Goes Bad

Show Note

Queue Darth Vader music… we admit it, not all therapy is good therapy.  Ann Kelley and Sue Marriott discuss the potential negatives in the therapeutic relationship – focusing on how a client might distinguish between good therapy, that’s tough at times and a genuinely dysfunctional relationship.   The difference between healthy dependency and one that erodes your sense of self is unpacked, as well as the idea of safe vulnerability that leads to change.  Finally, they name the truth that one can feel held hostage by the therapist and the darker more harmful effects that can happen when therapy goes bad.   

Timeline 

0:00 – Intro/Podcast Conference 

2:48 – Recap on Episode 39 Therapeutic Relationship 

3:41 – Introduction to dark side of therapy

4:12 – Types of discredited therapies: Conversion Therapy (coercive therapy that intends to change someone’s sexual orientation) Good therapy intends to assist self-exploration and colorful self expression 

5:16 – Repressed memory therapy – Not helpful therapy and has potential to have traumatic outcomes. 

6:12 – Sometimes therapists abuse role in exploitative way – Make sure your therapist is licensed and accredited 

7:17 – What is good therapy that is hard and what is a dysfunctional relationship? It can be hard to tell the difference. Those who have experienced relational injuries and then begin to feel safe with the therapeutic relationship might feel unsafe and begin to evoke and enact what they need help healing. Therapists want to help you listen to your gut. 

10:12 – Go for the connection in the therapeutic relationship and talk about relationships and attachment. Having a new experience where patient can unfold and be more themselves and be understood & recognized for who they are is in essence, therapy. Beginning to know what you think and feel already begins work on trauma. 

11:51 – One of the dangers of working deeply especially with trauma is if it moves too quickly.   Sometimes the patient can feel like they’re being held captive by the therapist or acting as a narcissistic extension of the therapist 

12:47 – Narcissistic Extension – Therapists as humans have their own needs and desires to be helpful but the client can potentially feel need to satisfy and gain approval from therapist in power differential. 

15:43 – Therapists are in a position to keep clients hostage through barring the door by making clients feel guilty or shamed for trying to leave – Therapists need to understand desire to leave and affirm right to do so. Exploration is good but guilt and shame is something else.  Respect boundaries of patient.  Allow them to explore the urge to leave or to act and leave.  If it was wrong move they will figure that out and return on their own accord to you or someone else to resume. 

22:12 – Sometimes clients can be difficult but this is healthy and normal. Discomfort directed at the therapist or expression of suicidal ideation can sometimes lead to a premature end to the therapeutic relationship. Therapist-initiated termination is a huge risk and always complicated and potentially harmful.  

24:31 – Boundaries are important to talk about in the therapeutic relationship. No romance, sexuality or bargaining. Letting the boundaries slowly slip a little bit and eventually crossing the line can be extremely harmful to clients. Doing something like stopping a session on time despite making ground or even just collecting payment are healthy, loving professional acts in the relationship. 

28:43 – Basic goal for patients in therapy: you should be getting better, not feel shamed intrinsically from relationship.  One can expect positive, challenging, growth-enhancing language from therapist.

IN THIS EPISODE:

Meditation And Neuroplasticity Provide a Path To Healing: An Interview With Sarah Peyton

Show Notes

Patty Olwell interviews Sarah Peyton, author of Your Resonant Self: Guided Meditations & Exercises to Engage Your Brain’s Capacity for Healing on the neuroscience of language and emotions. Their discussion covers Sarah’s background in non-violent communication and her more recent work with the impact of specific interventions and meditations to foster brain plasticity and empathy towards ourselves and others. They explore what kinds of language can we use that lets brains relax and move into a space of fluidity? How does this relate to healing from trauma? What kind of language do we use with ourselves to develop empathy? How do we develop an inner voice of understanding rather than self-criticism?

 

Timeline

0:00 Intro

1:44 – What drew Sarah Peyton to this work – First non-violent communication (Marshall Rosenberg) Rosenberg weekend – first time hearing that use of language

3:51 – How non-violent communication works like therapy – a place where people listen rather than just try to problem solve – what happens when you use feeling words & how it changes the activity of the amygdala – (Matthew Lieberman)

4:40 – Matthew Lieberman study of facial expressions –when you accurately name the facial expression/emotions you’re seeing, the activity in the amygdala falls by half- people using language differently put Peyton into a space of fluidity (there is always an amygdala response to intense facial expressions)

5:29 – Daniel Siegel – Name it to tame it – Why does this work?

6:02 – What kinds of language do we use that lets brains relax and move into a space of fluidity? How does this relate to healing from trauma? How are brains impacted by trauma? Language as the neurotransmitters of human-ness – Verbal & nonverbal communication between two people

8:45 – Shift of focus from communication to brains – Daniel Siegel’s The Developing Mind, The Neurobiology of We

10:30 – How are we moved & changed by the words we use with one another?

12:00 – Dan Siegel’s contingent communication – how do our words reflect that we actually heard the other person? This quality comes through very subtly even in written communication

14:37 – Study of how Sarah Peyton used words with her children revealed the breaks & chasms between getting business of life done and having a relational connection

15:52 – What kind of language do we use with ourselves? Matthew Lieberman’s work with the default mode network. How do our minds think when there’s nothing else to process? When the brain is not directed towards something in particular, it reverses to default network.

18:07 – What is the automatic voice of our brain and can it be changed?

19:32 – Your Resonant Self: Guided Meditations & Exercises to Engage Your Brain’s Capacity for Healing – Speaking unkindly to yourself – Importance of warmth in language – Trauma impacts the default network – experiences of being alone create default networks that are trying to help us – How do we turn towards voice of understanding rather than self-critical voice?

22:31 – How to be precise with language: To be precise with what the feeling tone is. To be precise with what the deep longing is: survival, thriving, peace, room to grow, capacity to have your own timing, etc. Precision with what the timing of the trauma is – that the trauma is no longer happening – By using the past tense, the brain is using precision – What’s so upsetting is in the past and getting acknowledgment

25:01 – People often say yes most often when asked if they’re seeking acknowledgment for what happened in the past. Bonnie Badenoch’s study of Nepalese boy soldiers All boy soldiers had the same experience but the boys who went home to environments wher...

IN THIS EPISODE:

Getting What You Want From Therapy: The Essentials Of A Therapeutic Relationship

Show Notes

Dr. Ann Kelley, Sue Marriott & Patty Olwell chat about the importance of building a strong therapeutic relationship with clients. We’ll discuss how feelings of love, hate, disappointment, excitement and more between a therapist and a patient are not only normal, but even potentially essential to working towards healing. They break-down counter-transference and how mutual influence works to help clients grow.

Timeline

0:00-0:27 Intro Questions

0:27- Possibilities for Therapist-Client relationship (potential for harm from power differential in the relationship OR neural sculpting) – When choosing a therapist, be prepared to be changed by this new relationship. Therapists are permanently changed once attached to clients – mutual sculpting

1:53 –Old analytic model of psychotherapy – therapist as flat, neutral agent. Therapist actually can influence the client. Relationship as we know it now is not unidirectional – the most healing agent is the relationship in psychotherapy.

2:30 – How to pick a therapist – interview several

2:54 – What to do if you’re experiencing love, hate, disappointment, excitement, etc. in a relationship with your therapist The General Theory of Love – it’s normal to feel these feelings and it also may be essential to the healing agent

4:36 – Now that you understand these feelings are normal – what next? Talk about them with your therapist – express your feelings, then let process begin – However this experience may be regressive and if the therapist isn’t willing to help you may have to move on

6:44 – How to discern when emotional events are part of the therapeutic process of working through past trauma or when it’s harmful and retraumatizing

Hope to have a different outcome than in the past – We can learn that we have difficult feelings or conflicts but it doesn’t have to end the relationship. It is possible to talk about and process these feelings with your therapist.

8:22 Discerning between healthy and unhealthy emotions in relationship Openness & willingness to talk through – Discomfort is part of journey towards healing

9:20 – Difference between feeling uncomfortable and actually being unsafe – Nesting Dolls – Problem of acting or thinking a certain way only around therapist versus outside the office

11:00 – Feeling safe, then feeling vulnerable when seeking advice in therapy

11:57 – Therapists need to follow the clients lead when someone comes in seeking career advice or a quick fix for a problem – If client isn’t ready or interested in deep processing we can move as quickly or as slowly as they need.

13:05 – Therapists want patients to find answer themselves, but often also want to be helpful – problem of giving/expecting advice

14:37 – Counter-transference – Therapists feelings get brought up – Therapy as an interpersonal dance

20:30 – Sue’s anecdote about the pay less price tag – compared to being in a family where you can’t name the embarrassing/traumatizing element in your life

22:31 – See therapist in a way that allows client to express emotions

27:00 – Empathy in therapists – don’t want to deny clients the power position in power differential

27:51 – As a client there’s a felt need to not have to take care of therapist in terms – expectation of a certain level of maturity, experience, intelligence, etc. ; have a bigger, stronger other that allows you to be “messy”

28:30 – How and why a boundary is important in a therapeutic relationship – need to feel safe – Frame (time, space, money) – Frame will not be broken

31:03 – Wrap up: All these thoughts & feelings are acceptable – Talk about them with therapist and if they can’t handle it then consider a new one – but first tell your therapist you’re frustrated and you’re...

IN THIS EPISODE:

The Blended Family: How to Create Strong and Lasting  Step-Family Relationships

Show Notes

This episode breaks it down by debunking the most popular myths and giving specific do’s and don’ts to help you create secure long-lasting families no matter their origin.

Blended Family Myths

Wicked stepmothers and red-headed step children – our psyche with the help of Disney often portrays step-families through a suspicious lens. However, only 23% of families are made up of two heterosexual biological parents in their first marriage. So called “weird” families such as blended, same-sex parents, adoption and foster, grandparents parenting, polyamorous and so on are the new normal. Adults living with biologically unrelated children have unique challenges, and in this episode we focus specifically on blended families. Dr. Ann Kelley and Sue Marriott discuss common myths as well as tips toward achieving a healthy blended family bond. We unpack the tensions that often emerge as two cultures come together and deliver practical solutions for how to avoid pitfalls and build a foundation that helps the process of reconstituting a new gaggle go smoother. Also, gender and developmental differences are discussed –

you may be surprised that sons and daughters respond differently. Finally same-sex headed families are also discussed, the unique strethgs and challenges within these families. Hey glbtq – headed parents out there – don’t worry we totally have your back. We

are all about it and are working on an entire episode on the beautiful and unique gifts of glbtq families coming to your podcast player soon.

Timeline

0:50 – Intro

2:27–Blended family

3:52–Myth 1 of Blended Families: Stepfamilies are not as healthy as “real” families.

5:50–Why children struggle more than those in first-marriage, intact families andhow to prevent it

7:26–Effect of divorce on children–socio-economic drop and severe change of

routine should be prevented

8:34–Whatever you do, don’t mess with the mind of the child in how they see theother parent (ie.alter the child’s internalized image of the other parent).

9:50–Myth 2 of Blended Families: Stepfamilies break up more often and that is a bad thing

13:36–Myth 3 of Blended Families: Children who come from divorced and thenblended families will likely struggle in life. (All families have problems–step families are just more exposed and therefore vulnerable)

14:45–Difference between boys & girls transitions becoming stepchildren

17:00–Time helps everyone–How can we expedite the process of feeling like afamily and speed up the process?

 17:50–When parent’s sense of fantasy and pressure to get it right and rushing the process leads to combustible outcomes.

18:50–Being around parents that are overtly affectionately in love can be difficult for children and may increase the tension within the child or between the child andparent/stepparent. Many times children haven’t seen parents fall in love

21:25–Idealized fantasy of second marriage & pressure to get it right the 2nd time around

22:23–Blending families = blending two cultures (Don’t try to create one united front)

27:50–Differences in administering discipline is a frequent source of conflict in

blended families (Permissive parents vs. boundary-setting parents)

28:50–Don’t step into direct-disciplinary role for the first year as a step-parent. Working towards a non-polarized, firm, loving place where child still has boundaries

33:05–The more stuck a child gets in an outside position, more potentially damaging (Bio parent & step parent need to have empathy for child who might be shifted into an outside position)

IN THIS EPISODE:

Organizing The Disorganized: Understanding The Elusive Attachment Category

Show Notes

 Disorganized attachment states of mind happen to us all. We temporarily get lost in a jumble and it’s difficult to track what is happening… but for some this is a more serious concern that can reflect much of how we feel much of the time. By popular request, we begin to unravel the last attachment category and update current thinking that includes those who have unresolved trauma, loss or have had caregivers who were frightening.

Disorganized Attachment

In this episode, Sue Marriott, Patty Olwell and Dr. Ann Kelley discuss this oft-overlooked fourth category; disorganized attachment and how it affects our adult lives. We go over it’s development and move to our current thinking on what it includes. We’ll talk about how attachment is formed as a survival skill and how loss, trauma and frightening caregivers transport individuals to disorganized spaces. Towards the end you’ll learn how relationships can provide safety and security in neurobiological terms, and how you can affect change for yourself or a loved one.

Timeline

0:00 -1:53 Intro

1:53 – 3:49 Quick review of attachment & underlying organized dynamics (Secure & Insecure) Insecure attachment (Insecure Preoccupied & Insecure Avoidant)

3:49 – 4:18 Data on attachment and historical figures (John Bowlby, Mary Ainsworth, Mary Main)

4:18 – Attachment as biological imperative & cross cultural – everyone has an attachment system

4:59 Three distinct categories – The addition of the fourth distinct disorganized attachment category (The Strange Situation)

6:54 – The problem of disorganization in adults rather than children (update) – Applying data to real life individual people – Disorganization/attachment as a spectrum

7:59 – How can we begin to move towards the middle (secure) including the disorganized?

9:32 – Buckets instead of a category

10:19 – What does disorganized attachment look like in an adult? What does “unresolved” mean? Losing mentalization & context, disorganization in parents

11:59 – Frightening caregivers – Deborah Jacobvitz

12:51 – Moving unresolved into resolved space – Narrative coherence (resolved) Unresolved taking too much information forward so you can’t forget about the stress event or events bad (in the form of nightmares, intrusions, and pre-occupations)

15:03 Other side of unresolved – avoidance of incident/trauma

16:09 – Children with trauma don’t have narrative coherence – body remembers incident but it’s fragmented

17:09 = Clinicians that came in after Ainsworth Main and Bowlby – Patricia Crittenden (student of Ainsworth). Keeping the caregiver available.

20:09 – Finding an organized state balanced between thinking and feeling

21:00 – What to do in order to heal (developing trust is key to healing)

22:00 – Biology of attachment

23:00 – Free Online Course on Modern Adult Attachment coming soon, along with

others that will include Advanced Studies – join the waiting list for the free course at

www.therapistuncensored.eventbrite.com

25:47 – Outro

Therapist Uncensored Online Course – Reserve your spot now!

In addition if you enjoyed this, we will be providing much more from a synthesis of the latest and greatest ideas out there for intervention, prevention and clinical work for those of us that didn’t come by secure relating in the old-fashioned way, from parents.

For those that are having to work to earn it or who treat people with attachment insecurities, we have an online course coming up soon. Email us at [email protected].