Jeff and Phil welcome back Shin Yu Pai, poet, museologist and host of Ten Thousand Things, an award-winning podcast about modern-day artifacts of Asian American life. She is joined by Jenny Liou, poet, English scholar and former MMA cage fighter -- and one of the subjects of the latest season of Ten Thousand Things. They talk about Jenny's entry into the sport, the cage as a space of limitation and liberation, and the impossible and contradictory expectations of an Asian American female fighter. Also, stay tuned for "Cage," an extra episode of Ten Thousand Things featuring Shin Yu Pai and Jenny Liou.