Jeff and Phil welcome back Shin Yu Pai to talk about the latest season of her podcast Ten Thousand Things, along with fellow podcaster Yowei Shaw (Proxy, NPR's Invisibilia). They talk about the objects that help us move forward -- like a gold star trophy; how layoffs can be like breakups that unravel your sense of identity, purpose, and self-worth; finding healing and reinvention in the wake of professional setbacks; and The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of going independent. Also: keep listening to hear a full episode of Ten Thousand Things.