Jeff and Phil discuss the evil, manipulative, and highly organized world of online scams with journalists Nelson Wang, who became the target of a "pig butchering" crypto scam, and Denise Chan, host of the Wondery podcast Scam Factory, which exposes the brutal reality behind these ripoff operations. There's a scam for everybody. They talk about the increasingly creative and sophisticated ways that scammers prey on their victims, how that scammer on the other side might actually be a victim of a scam themselves—trafficked and trapped—and the bizarre corporate infrastructure behind some of these scam factories. Pizza party!