Think Inclusive

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"We're not raising children, we're raising adults." That is how parent advocate Karen Ford Cull starts every IEP, and it changes the whole meeting. Karen is an inclusive education advocate, parent coach, and mom of a 21-year-old son with Down syndrome. Through Plan4Inclusion she helps California families build IEPs that lead to meaningful inclusion. Before any of that, she was a political theorist.

Karen asks a question we can't stop thinking about. In the rest of education, family engagement is called the number one thing that makes a difference for students. So where is that conversation in special education? She explains why so many IEP meetings run on conflict, why parents sometimes ask "What's the catch?" when the team finally agrees with them, and why districts should take the labels off their segregated programs.

She also gives case managers a playbook: meet the family before the meeting, share a draft of the goals, and book two hours instead of 45 minutes. We close with Awake Among the Stars, where Karen plays a painfully literal robot who rescues a baby bird on an ash planet and names it Ketchum.

Expanded show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/were-raising-adults-building-trust-at-the-iep-table-with-karen-ford-cull/

Sponsors:

IXL, the all-in-one K-12 platform that adapts to each student: https://www.ixl.com/inclusive

Behavior 360 from Inclusive Schooling, professional learning that treats behavior as something to understand rather than manage: https://inclusiveschooling.com/mcie-behavior

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode!

Kids have to feel safe before they can learn. Child psychologist and parent educator Dr. Emily King returns to Think Inclusive to talk about her new book, The Neurodivergent Learner: A New Approach to Your Child’s Success in the Classroom and Beyond. It is part brain science and part her own story as a mom, starting with her older son’s hard kindergarten year and ending with his high school graduation.

Emily explains why every classroom is already neurodiverse, why she ignores test scores when families pick a school (she looks at the building, the noise, the transitions, and whether teachers like working there), and how joining her PTA board taught her what parents of neurotypical kids can do for everyone else. She also says we use labels to get kids access to support, but the label should not decide where a child goes.

Then she calls behavior “the last thing that happens” and gives educators a step they can take tomorrow: email every adult who works with a student and ask whether they have ever seen the child do the thing the team is stuck on. We close with Awake Among the Stars, where Emily plays an anxious space botanist who names a volcano planet the amygdala.

Expanded show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/safe-before-ready-the-neurodivergent-learner-with-dr-emily-king/

Sponsors:

IXL, the all-in-one K-12 platform that adapts to each student: https://www.ixl.com/inclusive

Behavior 360 from Inclusive Schooling, professional learning that treats behavior as something to understand rather than manage: https://inclusiveschooling.com/mcie-behavior

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode!

When Elana Meyers Taylor won gold in women’s monobob at the Milan Cortina Winter Games, the first thing she did was find her sons and sign “Mommy won.” Both of her boys are deaf, and her older son, Nico, has Down syndrome. Sign language is the main language in their house.

Elana talks with Tim about why her family learned ASL when doctors said not to bother, what an IEP evaluator missed because she didn’t know a single sign, and why a six-time Olympic medalist wants everyone to know they are not defined by what they achieve. She is honest about school, too: what inclusion looked like for Nico, what didn’t work, and why her family homeschools for now.

Her starting point is the same as ours: ask what inclusion looks like for this kid first, then build from there. Plus, Elana plays Awake Among the Stars, our micro role-playing game, and discovers “grass fruit” on a world of floating mountains.

Read the expanded show notes: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/mommy-won-elana-meyers-taylor-on-sign-language-worth-and-inclusion-1405/

Sponsors

• IXL, the all-in-one K-12 platform that adapts to each student: ixl.com/inclusive
• Behavior 360 from Inclusive Schooling, professional learning that treats behavior as something to understand, not just manage: inclusiveschooling.com/mcie-behavior

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode!

We say “inclusion” all the time. Michael McSheehan, owner and lead consultant of Evolve & Effect, says it’s time to say what we mean. He and four co-authors set out to write guidance about paraprofessionals and ended up writing the Five Features of Student Experience in a Continuum of Supports for Inclusive Education.

The five features are location, accessibility, participation, affirmation, and agency. Each one is measured by what the student experiences compared to classmates without disabilities, not by what the classroom has. Michael explains why a student doing the same content with a para off to the side is not participating, why affirmation starts with “Is my name on the roster?”, and why special education and general education run on theories of learning that mix like oil and vinegar.

After the interview, Michael plays Awake Among the Stars, our micro role-playing game adapted from Alone Among the Stars by Takuma Okada, and names a planet after his childhood dog.

Expanded show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/say-what-you-mean-michael-mcsheehan-on-the-five-features-of-inclusion-1404/

Sponsors

IXL, an all-in-one K-12 platform that adapts to each student and builds a personalized learning plan: https://ixl.com/inclusive

Behavior 360 from Inclusive Schooling, professional learning that treats behavior as something to understand rather than manage: https://inclusiveschooling.com/mcie-behavior

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode!

Magen Rooney-Kron started out co-teaching in Chicago Public Schools. When she asked where her students with intellectual disabilities went after high school, the answers were “I don’t know” and “they go home.” The class meant to prepare them for work had them putting spoons in bags. She has worked on transition ever since, and today she is an assistant professor of inclusive education at the University of Missouri-St. Louis.

Tim and Magen talk about why so few people with intellectual disabilities have real jobs, why paid work in the community beats job shadowing and task boxes that reset every day, and why a student who “doesn’t want to work” might just not want to bag groceries. Magen explains dignity of risk: letting students try, make mistakes, and face real consequences, with the right supports in place.

Her most striking finding: teachers said the work site was the first place their students were included and held to high expectations. Not the classroom. The job. The episode closes with Awake Among the Stars, where Magen’s Captain Dash explores a jungle world and names it Tedasaurus.

Expanded show notes and full transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/real-jobs-real-risk-magen-rooney-kron-on-transition-and-employment-1403/

Sponsors

IXL, an all-in-one K-12 platform that adapts to each student and builds a personalized learning plan: https://ixl.com/inclusive

Behavior 360 from Inclusive Schooling, professional learning that treats behavior as something to understand rather than manage: https://inclusiveschooling.com/mcie-behavior

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode!

Andrew Goff threw a mug that said “Best teacher ever” at a wall. It was his twelfth year in the classroom, and the email that set it off came from someone he had counted as an ally. His second memoir, Shattered and Becoming: A Teacher’s Journey Between Policy and Purpose, is about the year that followed.

A new principal told Andrew he could not speak Spanish with the three-quarters of his pre-K class who spoke it. The policy did not actually say that, and Andrew found out too late to use it. Two boys in that classroom, both labeled with autism, both named David, were thriving with embedded supports. When Andrew brought the data, the answer was that it worked in his classroom but would not work in anyone else’s. Both boys ended up in self-contained autism classrooms.

Andrew will not let us make villains out of the people whose decisions caused that harm, and he explains why without letting anyone off the hook. We also get into designing curriculum for the margins, the not knowing mindset, and following the breadcrumbs after a fifteen-year federal grant is canceled by email. Then Andrew becomes the first guest to play Awake Among the Stars.

Expanded show notes, resources, and the full transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/shattered-and-becoming-andrew-goff-and-the-weight-of-being-enough-1402/

Sponsors

IXL, an all-in-one K-12 platform that adapts to each student: ixl.com/inclusive

Behavior 360 from Inclusive Schooling, professional learning that treats behavior as something to understand rather than manage: inclusiveschooling.com/mcie-behavior

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode!

Emma Rufo went to a restaurant in her wheelchair and was handed a kid’s cup with a lid. Everyone else at the table got a regular one. She came back another day walking with crutches, and got a cup with no lid.

Emma and her mom, Dr. Jenna Mancini Rufo, join Tim to talk about what happens when adults decide instead of asking. Emma describes the year her school assigned her an aide, why it felt like being watched rather than helped, and how she got the support removed. Jenna talks about advocating as a parent after almost two decades as a special educator and administrator, and about being dismissed as just another anxious mom.

Plus, the debut of Awake Among the Stars, the micro role-playing game that now closes every episode.

Expanded show notes, resources, and the full transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/just-ask-what-inclusive-support-really-feels-like-with-jenna-and-emma-rufo-1401/

Sponsors

IXL, an all-in-one K-12 platform that adapts to each student and builds a personalized learning plan: ixl.com/inclusive

Behavior 360 from Inclusive Schooling, professional learning that treats behavior as something to understand rather than manage: inclusiveschooling.com/mcie-behavior

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode!

Meg Grigal is the director of Think College at the Institute for Community Inclusion at UMass Boston. With over 25 years of experience researching pathways to higher education for students with intellectual disabilities, she has been a pivotal force in transforming inclusive postsecondary education and leading the charge for innovative research and action.

Clare Papay serves as the Senior Associate for Inclusive Postsecondary Education at Think College and a co-principal investigator on national projects. Her expertise stems from nearly a decade of experience working closely with systems and programs designed to expand access to college for students with intellectual disabilities.

In this enlightening episode of Think Inclusive, host Tim Villegas is joined by Dr. Meg Grigal and Clare Papay from Think College. Together, they tackle the crucial question: Can students with intellectual disabilities attend college? The conversation sheds light on the surprising possibilities and initiatives in inclusive postsecondary education, centered around the successful incorporation of students with intellectual disabilities into higher education institutions.

Meg Grigal and Clare Papay discuss how families often don’t realize that college boundaries have expanded to accommodate students with intellectual disabilities. They delve into how programs like Think College are leading this transformative movement, turning skepticism into affirmation through real-world examples and dedicated campaigns like the Think Higher video. Emphasizing the importance of personal visits to witness campus life, the guests underscore how seeing these programs in action can dramatically shift perceptions and expectations for what students with intellectual disabilities can achieve in a college setting.

Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/unlocking-college-access-for-students-with-intellectual-disabilities-with-think-college-1343/

This episode was made possible with generous support from Think College. Learn more at thinkcollege.net.

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode!

Join us for episode three of MCIE's "Think Inclusive" four-part series in collaboration with Think College, as Tim Villegas visits the IDEAL program at Georgia State University in downtown Atlanta. IDEAL — Inclusive Digital Expression and Literacy — is a college program for students with intellectual disabilities built around creative media: film, television, and digital arts. It is also a commuter program. There are no dorms and no leafy college town here. Every student crosses one of the most traffic-choked metro areas in the country to get to class, some of them spending three hours a day on buses or paratransit for the privilege. The episode opens in a careers class, where nine students name their dream careers: veterinarian, flight attendant, musician, actor, podcaster, comic book writer.

The heart of the episode is a question about what stands between a dream like that and an actual job — and the answer starts with a checkbox. Employment coordinator Mykal Tairu spent years as a community organizer working on Ban the Box, the policy fight over whether a person with a criminal record gets to introduce themselves before their application lands in the trash. He argues that adults with intellectual disabilities face a version of the same box, just unprinted. Along the way, Tim spends a morning with students Isaiah and David, hears what a real job in the film department means to a comic book writer, and learns what happens when a program insists that hiring its graduates is not a favor. As Tairu puts it, it's not a charity case. It's a case where an employer sees the value someone brings and decides they need him.

Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/dream-careers-inside-the-minds-of-georgia-states-ideal-students-1342/

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode!

Join us for episode two of MCIE's "Think Inclusive" four-part series in collaboration with Think College, as Tim Villegas travels to the University of California, Davis, to visit the Redwood SEED Scholars Program — California's first four-year residential college program for students with intellectual disabilities, and the first at any UC campus. SEED stands for Supported Education to Elevate Diversity, and the name comes from an unlikely grove of redwood trees growing in the Central Valley heat, holding each other up by their shallow, interlocking roots. It's a fitting image for a program built on community: scholars live in the dorms, take UC Davis classes across 27 different departments, work paid jobs on campus and in town, and are surrounded by more than 170 paid peer mentors.

The story starts with founding director Beth Foraker, her son Patrick, and a blister on a Friday night in a Virginia dorm room — the moment she understood what her state was failing to offer its young adults with intellectual disabilities. From there, this episode follows the program's fast, improbable build (a $2.1 million federal TPSID grant in October 2020, first scholars on campus by August 2021), the "ladder of opportunity" that moves scholars from internships into careers with employers like UC Davis Logistics and the Mondavi Center, and what happened to the program's first graduating class: eighty-eight percent living independently, all of them working, none of them with a job coach. Along the way, senior scholar Audrey Schlossberg, ticket office manager Amy Roark, and logistics director Jen Carmichael make the case that inclusive higher education changes campuses and communities as much as it changes students — and Beth makes an argument she thinks the whole country needs to hear about building four-year programs with inclusive living.

Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/redwood-seed-scholars-roots-that-hold-each-other-up-1341/

This episode was made possible with generous support from Think College. Learn more at thinkcollege.net.