ThinkEnergy

[Traduction française du résumé et de la transcription du podcast ci-dessous.]

Public transportation remains one of the only ways to move large amounts of people quickly and sustainably, but if sustainability is the goal, there’s a lot more that needs to be done. A typical 18 meter bus consumes approximately 40,000 litres of diesel every year, which equates to 100 tonnes of CO2 for just one bus. That’s where the electrification of public transit comes in - an initiative that Canada, and the city of Ottawa, has been fast-tracking. In this episode, Ottawa Mayor, Jim Watson, shares what’s next for Ottawa as city officials strive to achieve their ambitious goal for 100 per cent net zero public transit by 2040.

Transcript:

Dan Seguin  00:42

Welcome back, everyone. This is the ThinkEnergy podcast. Many guests of this podcast have spoken at length about the important role that the transportation sector has on helping Canada achieve 100% net zero emissions by 2050. Without widespread adoption of transit electrification. decarbonisation simply can't be done. And we're not just talking about personal electric vehicles, but long haul trucking, construction vehicles and of course, public transit. Public Transportation remains the only way to move large amounts of people quickly and sustainably. Only a few years ago, Clean Energy Canada and its partners released a report stating that the transportation sector was responsible for 23% of Canada's greenhouse emissions. It found that of more than 15 million Canadians that commuted only 12% use public transportation. Nearly 75% of commuters drove a private automobile only a few years ago, clean energy Canada and its partners released a report stating that the transportation sector was responsible for 23% of Canada's greenhouse emissions. It found that of the more than 15 million Canadians that commuted only 12% use public transportation, the electrification of public transit, paired with green energy production and increase ridership will improve urban air pollution immensely. Did you know that a typical 18 meter bus runs up to 16 hours a day, and that one bus that consumes approximately 40,000 litres of diesel every year. That's the equivalent of 100 tonnes of co2 for just one bus. Canada is in a great position with 80% of the electricity produced is coming from non-emitting sources. That means that when the electrification of transportation happens, it will be plugged into an already green grid that is only getting greener year over year. It was in April 2019 that the City of Ottawa declared a climate emergency and that it was ramping up work on key climate change plans and initiatives. In fact, the City of Ottawa has an ambitious goal to have its entire municipal operations and services including transit 100% net zero by 2040. That's a full decade before the country plans to achieve this goal. Ottawa has already made significant strides with its launch of the city's light rail transit. A feat that Ottawa Transit Commission says has achieved the largest reduction of GHG emissions in Ottawa's history and changes happening incrementally. By the fall of 2021, the city will add four more electric buses to its fleet. There's no doubt that there's a movement happening. More and more urban dwellers are jumping on E scooters and E bikes as other ways to navigate a congested city. I see everyday as my wife and I share an electric car. And most recently, instead of taking our car, we ride our ebikes for errands within five to 10 kilometers from our home. So here's today's big question is Canada's public transit entering a new era of decarbonisation, transitioning away from diesel buses to low or zero emission electric buses, electric rail, and other cleaner means of mobility? How quickly can we achieve this. And how are municipalities like Ottawa, leading the charge? To help drive the conversation, I've invited the mayor of Ottawa, Jim Watson, to talk about the municipal goals related to climate change, and specifically the electrification of the city's public transportation. Welcome, Mr. Mayor, and thank you so much for being on our show today.

 

Jim Watson  05:30

My pleasure. Thank you very much.

 

Dan Seguin  05:32

Mr. Mayor. If I'm not mistaken, you were elected as the youngest mayor, in Ottawa's history in 1997. For our listeners, not from Ottawa, perhaps you could tell us a bit about yourself? And what fueled your passion for public service these many years?

 

Jim Watson  05:54

Sure, well, thank you for the opportunity to be on your podcast. That's right. My claim to fame was that I was the youngest Mayor elect, I think I was 35 or 36. And I was first elected as a city councilor when I was 28, or 29. For the Capital ward. And I served two terms on on city council as a councilor. And prior to that, I worked as Director of Communications for the Speaker of the House of Commons, and Press Secretary for the speaker as well. So I came from the federal political side into the municipal side and loved every moment of it. It's been a real honor to serve. I served as the last elected mayor of the Old City before amalgamation. And then from there we went. I went off to become President and CEO of the Canadian Tourism Commission, which is a federal crown Corporation, it's now called Destination Canada. And I did that for I guess, about three years. And then politics, lured me back into its web and I became the MPP for Ottawa West Nepean for two terms, and had the honor of serving in three different cabinet portfolios, the last one being Municipal Affairs and housing, and then got back into municipal politics in 2010, and was reelected in 2014, and 2018. So I'm now on my, I guess, 13th year as Mayor of the City of Ottawa, Lucky 13. And as I said, I've enjoyed every moment of it, it's been a great honor. And also, particularly these days dealing with things like COVID and the state of the economy a great challenge.

 

Dan Seguin  07:28

Mayor Watson, let's go back to April 2019, when you declared a climate emergency in the nation's capital, was there an inciting incident or a trigger that led to that moment? Or was it simply a built up of evidence that all pointed to the same conclusion?

 

Jim Watson  07:50

I think it was a gradual realization that more and more countries and cities and provinces were recognizing climate change is a global crisis that we're dealing with, and that we at the local level, being the most pragmatic level of government had an opportunity to not just declare, but also act on the climate emergency because it's one thing to simply pass a paper resolution saying, you declare it, you're going to do something about it. And we've worked very hard over the course of the last not just a couple of months, but last couple of years with our staff and advisory groups and outside environmental experts to do whatever we can both locally and contributes nationally through the Federation of Canadian Municipalities to ensure that the senior levels of government that have the most influence when it comes to funding recognize that we need their help in order to meet our goals. So in Canada over 450 Municipal and regional governments have declared a climate emergency including big cities like ours, Montreal, Vancouver, Halifax, Toronto and Edmonton. And the assembly of First Nations has as well.

 

Dan Seguin  09:11

Okay. I've read that municipalities in Canada have influence over roughly 50% of greenhouse gas emissions in Canada. Through Ottawa's Energy Evolution initiative, you've set a goal to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 100 per cent from all areas of municipal government operations by 2040. What does that mean and what kind of changes should residents expect to see over the next two decades?

 

Jim Watson  09:46

Our city operations account for only about 4% of total emissions in Ottawa so as you mentioned, council as a goal to reduce the admissions our target was to decrease them by 30% by 2025. And between 2012 and 2019, corporate admissions decreased by 34%. So we're actually making progress and we're doing a little better than we targeted for. And since the launch of LRT, diesel use and emissions for buses have decreased for the first time since 2012 - and that's something pretty significant. So we're gonna have to continue to do that good work. But when we talk about the corporation of the City of Ottawa, it's basically City Hall and, and the bureaucracy around the city. There's the broader City of Ottawa, obviously, and we have to work with them, the private sector and homebuilders and so on, to ensure that they meet their goals as well. But I'm very proud of the fact that , as I mentioned, for the first time, we've seen diesel use, emissions from buses decreased for the first time since 2012. So that's a good indicator of how we're doing.

 

Dan Seguin  10:52

I have to admit, Mayor, that I'm pretty excited to talk to you today about public transportation. I know you take public transit on a regular basis. Coming off a year, like 2020, where ridership was down due to COVID. What are the benefits residents should be aware of? And why is public transit important to invest in?

 

Jim Watson  11:18

Well, obviously, 2020 was a really tough year for every transit company around the world, not just Ottawa. Every transit system, at least in North America saw a significant you know, 60 to 80% drop in, in revenues and passengers for the simple reason that so many people were working from home, people lost their jobs as a result of COVID-19, people felt safer not going on transit. So all of those factors were front and center. And it made it rough for our transit system, particularly, since we just launched a new train system. And obviously, the first few months of that system, we had a lot of problems. Most of those have been resolved and the system's working really well, I think 98.5% of trips are on time, which is great. And, you know, the one good thing that's come out of COVID is the fact that transit ridership is down, that's a bad thing. And a good thing. The bad thing is it's we want to get the numbers up and make it financially sustainable. The good thing is people can take transit now and not be wedged into the train or the bus like sardines in a can because we have more space now because there's fewer riders. So we know that for instance, reducing greenhouse gases from transit, and the O train in particular is going to be one of our key tools in our toolbox to reduce our GHGs and make sure that we meet our standards, and meet our goals that we set as a community through the emergency resolution.

 

Dan Seguin  12:53

Mayor Watson, what investments are you looking to make in regards to the electrification of public transit in Ottawa? I understand we're getting four new electric buses by the fall of 2021. What are the short, mid and long term goals to electrify public transportation? When are you planning to have 100% electrification of the buses?

 

Jim Watson  13:24

Well, you know, some people have been critical over the fact that we're only getting, you know, a few buses in the first order. But I think what's wise on this on our staff's part is let's get a few in, let's test them and all of the different climates that we have, because as you know, we have four very distinct seasons. We're also unique and cities that were a very large geographic city - we're 2600 square kilometers, you can fit the cities of Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Montreal, and Toronto, all five of those big cities fit within the boundaries of Ottawa, and we're still bigger. So, I don't believe we have the technology yet where a bus can travel those long distances in a city like Ottawa without having to get charged and, you know, you send a bus all the way out to Carp or to South End in Barrhaven or to Cumberland and Orleans. It takes a lot of wear and tear on the battery and we have to have the capacity to make sure that the buses don't stall out because the battery is run run dry. So we're investing you know, several million dollars to get the infrastructure in place working with our partner, Hydro Ottawa, as well as the bus manufacturer and OC Transpo. To get these buses up and running so people can see them can experience them and we can test them out in the fall weather as well as in the winter weather coming up in the next year. But you know, the big, just going back to other aspects of transit, of course we have the O-train and you know, the LRT has to go and be expanded farther than it is right now. Right now it's 12 kilometers with I guess about 13 stations going from Tunney's Pasture in the East, Hurdman in the south end and Blair in the East End. And as you know, phase two of LRT is under construction as we speak. And it goes farther west to Algonquin College and Moody drive, just on the border of Kanata, and then it goes East to Trim road and Place D'Orleans. And it goes south to the EY center, the airport, and Riverside South, which is a very fast growing community. So those that's underway, and then this council is also approved the environmental assessments for Barrhaven's. LRT. Because Barrhaven is a very fast growing community, as you know, as well as Stittsville in Kanata. So we're working with the federal government: we need to secure the funding for phase three, we have the funding all in place, and it's being put to good use as we speak for phase two. But we need to go farther east west and south to make the system even more attractive and efficient.

 

Dan Seguin  16:08

So Mayor Watson, it's fair to say that the wide range of Ottawa's weather will play a factor on the feasibility of moving to electric?

 

Jim Watson  16:20

Well, I think we have to take that into account, you know, we have some really cold winters, and we want to make sure that the buses don't stall out, the last thing we want is a bus stranded on the side of the 174, the 417. Because the battery is not working properly. So we have to test them out, that would be the wise thing to do. You don't go and buy your whole fleet overnight without testing it and doing it the proper due diligence to make sure it works well. And you know, just as we're anticipating significant reductions in GHGs. From the O-train, we'll do the same from the buses, just give you an example by 2031 O-train reduction of greenhouse gas emissions will amount to about 94,000 tons and criteria air contaminant emissions by approximately 4600 tonnes. So it's a lot it's our single biggest weapon in our arsenal to fight climate change and to push down our GHG numbers is electrifying the system, as well as eventually, you know, my goal would be to have the entire OC transpo fleet if it's technically feasible to be electric over the next couple of decades.

 

Dan Seguin  17:35

I'm looking forward to your response on this next one Mayor Watson. Nationwide, cities are grappling with how to best reduce transportation emissions, better public health and lower government spending. Will the electrification of city fleets present an attractive proposition that has the potential to address all three concerns? What are the benefits that you hope Ottawa will reap from going electric and funding these types of projects?

 

Jim Watson  18:14

Well, you know, Dan that Ottawa already has good air quality. Going to zero emissions, transit will obviously improve it further. And quieter transit also improves the experience for those living and working on the routes. You know, if you look at Slater and Albert street that used to be a major transit way, lots of emissions. No one could ever have a cafe or patio on Slater/Albert, just because there are too many fumes coming from the buses, and the noise, quite frankly, of the engine. So that's going to improve the quality of life of people who live along bus routes as well. We know that battery electric buses do have a high upfront costs. So the more cities and governments around the world started investing in it, the price starts to go down, which makes it more economically feasible. But you know, as many of us found out during the pandemic, increasing our use of active transportation modes, like cycling and walking also has a positive impact on our physical and mental health. You know, more people are out at skating rinks now, for instance, than I've seen in some time. So, you know, we have still a lot of work to do. But this is the first time City Council in the history of the city of Ottawa has invested in electric buses. And obviously the first time we've invested in electric trains, I guess you could go back to the streetcars that were electric back a long time ago before you and I were born.

 

Dan Seguin  19:40

Now, can you help me understand what will determine the success of transit bus systems in North America? Could it be around promoting transit buses as an environmentally friendly, convenient and economical mode of transport? And what about our case: light rail transit, if it expands, can environmentalists or doing the right thing help bring more ridership and encourage a switch from personal to public transportation?

 

Jim Watson  20:15

Yeah, it's a very good question. I think it's a little of everything that you mentioned, I think it has to first and foremost be convenient for people. People don't want to be waiting for, you know, 50 or 60 minutes between trains or buses, it has to be comfortable and safe and secure for them. And it has to be affordable. You know, we froze the rates for most of last year, because we're not satisfied with the level of service that we're getting from RTG. And we try to keep the the rate going up at a roughly the rate of inflation, for passes and so on, we introduced the equi-pass for those people who have an income of less than I believe $20,000. So that makes it much more affordable for them, they save almost 50% off of regular adult pass, we brought in, you know, no charge service for seniors on Sundays, in addition to what we already offer on Wednesdays. And obviously, from an environmental point of view, that is another key selling point, I think, to a segment of our society that want to be good stewards of the environment. They want to make sure that, you know, they're getting on a vehicle and it's, you know, zero as close to zero emissions as possible.

 

Dan Seguin  21:27

Mr. Mayor, the transportation sector accounts for approximately a quarter of global greenhouse gas emissions, and is one of the major sectors where emissions are still rising. Ottawa is closer to 44% if I'm not mistaken, electrification is widely considered an attractive solution for reducing the dependency and environmental impact of road transportation. Where does the city stand with EV infrastructure like public charging stations? And maybe let's throw in some wildcards like electric scooters and E-bikes?

 

Jim Watson  22:11

Yeah, the corporate policy with respect to EVcharging is requires charging stations be installed at new facilities that are undergoing major retrofits or if it's a new facility, EV chargers have to be part of that. So that's a policy that we instituted a little while ago, we have a charger here, for instance, at City Hall and you see them at some of the new recreation centers that we've built around the city. Energy Evolution doesn't discuss electric scooters, or ebikes. That's going to be part of the transportation master plan. We did have an E-scooter program with three companies on a pilot basis this past summer, we're waiting on the results of that. A lot of people love the system. There are other people that were not happy with those scooters, you know, being thrown and tossed across sidewalks, it was an impairment issue for people who had physical and visual disabilities. So we have to, obviously take that into account if we're going to make the program permanent. But you know, we see examples around the world and sometimes you don't have to reinvent the wheel. If the scooter program works. That's another mode of transportation that it's suitable for some people, but we want to make sure obviously, it's safe for everyone the scooter riders themselves as well as the people who use the sidewalks and the roadways for either cycling or walking.

 

Dan Seguin  23:37

We know that zero emission fleets tend to have higher upfront costs than comparable internal combustion engine vehicles. But the fueling and operating costs are lower over the lifetime of the vehicle, which can offset the higher sticker price. So will constituents in Ottawa see the cost savings from electric municipal fleets? And what about infrastructure for their own personal electric vehicles?

 

Jim Watson  24:12

Yeah, we're not planning on subsidizing home EV chargers. That's not part of our plan. I don't think people would would expect us to do that. Our main focus is public EV charging stations, such as right of way and community centers. I know, for instance, national Natural Resources Canada, the Federal Department have a project underway to install 24 on street chargers and at 12 sites across the city, which we appreciate. We're also funding to install three charging stations at the bottom of quarry Rec Center in Orleans. And this project is currently underway. And I think when residents will see the cost savings when switching obviously to electric vehicles. Electric vehicle drivers save upwards of 60% on maintenance costs. And obviously 50% on fuel costs, gasoline, and above and beyond it being a good deal financially, it's a great deal from our mental and ecological point of view.

 

Dan Seguin  25:04

Mayor Watson, as charging demand for fleet grows, the city will need more efficient and scalable charging systems. Where do you stand with the electric charging infrastructure to serve this mass electrification of transportation?

 

Jim Watson  25:24

Well, you know, we're lucky, we have a Member of Parliament, who's also a minister of infrastructure, Catherine McKenna, and Catherine is, is worked very hard to help us with some of these projects, particularly when she was minister the environment. So we're hoping to see increased support for both electric buses and electric charging stations from the federal government to help us because obviously, at our level of government were of the three levels were the poorest of the three and we need from time to time help from upper levels of government. And this is a great project that's very tangible, understandable by the public, to ensure that as more and more electric cars are sold, we're going to need more and more electric charging stations. And I just saw on the news the other day, that, fortunately for them, I think Norway now sold more electric cars than conventional gas cars for the first time in any country's history in the world, which I think is great for them, and something we should aim for.

 

Dan Seguin  26:32

Time for the crystal ball. Mr. Mayor, what is your ideal future for the electrification of public transportation, especially when it comes to reducing congestion and improving driver and rider experience?

 

Jim Watson  26:50

I think, you know, first and foremost, it's getting phase two up and running: getting more people on the train system and the bus system that plugs into the train system. The first phase of phase two will open in the fall of 2022, which is not that far away. That's the the existing O-train diesel line, not the electric line. But then the Confederation line, which is east-west. The next phase, I think, will be in 2025, I believe, for the East End and 2026 for the West End, around those times. So that's my preoccupation, and focus is to get that done. And then to secure the funding for phase three, which will bring us to Barrhaven and Stittsville and Kanata. And then if you can call it phase four, how do we work with Gatineau to get some kind of connectivity between their new tram system that they're working on? And our LRT system in the downtown core? Because we have so many people that work in Gatineau and live in Ottawa and vice versa.

 

Dan Seguin  27:58

Okay, are you ready to close this off with some rapid fire questions?

 

Jim Watson  28:03

Sure.It sounds like reach for the top.

 

Dan Seguin  28:06

Mr. Mayor, what is your favorite word?

 

Jim Watson  28:10

"thanks." We don't do that enough.

 

Dan Seguin  28:20

What is your ideal electric vision for Ottawa's future?

 

Jim Watson  28:25

Well, that we continue our progress on LRT, electrification of the system, and obviously, the bus fleet and our own corporate fleet here at the city are 100% Electric.

 

Dan Seguin  28:40

What is the one thing you can't live without?

 

Jim Watson  28:44

Water - I drink a lot of water. And I need you need to as well.

 

Dan Seguin  28:49

What habit or hobby have you picked up during shelter in place?

 

Jim Watson  28:53

Oh, probably, you know, being attached to Netflix - watching a lot of really bad movies to pass the time.

 

Dan Seguin  29:04

If you could have one superpower, what would it be?

 

Jim Watson  29:08

I guess to bring people back to life.

 

Dan Seguin  29:11

Okay, if you could turn back time and talk to your 18 year old self, what would you tell him?

 

Jim Watson  29:18

Probably go to law school so I have something to fall back on and not rely just on politics because there's no job security.

 

Dan Seguin  29:24

And lastly, what do you currently find most interesting about public life?

 

Jim Watson  29:33

There's a lot of good in the community it's often overshadowed by the negativity and and social media tends to be a pretty negative medium for people to attack one another but I see a lot of the good side of the city of Ottawa you know, neighbor helping neighbor, stranger helping stranger whether it's during the flooding or the tornado or COVID-19 there's a lot of good in the world unfortunately gets overshadowed by some of the negativity that you see in the media.

 

Dan Seguin  30:05

Well, Mr. Mayor, we've reached the end of another episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. It was a pleasure.

 

Jim Watson  30:15

Thank you very much that it's been an honor. Appreciate the offer. Take care.

 

Dan Seguin  30:22

Thank you for joining us today. I truly hope you enjoyed this episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. For past episodes, make sure you visit our website hydroottawa.com/podcast. Lastly, if you found value in this podcast, be sure to subscribe. Anyway, this podcast is a wrap. Cheers, everyone.

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Épisode no 46 – Accélération du transport en commun électrique

Résumé de l’épisode :

Le transport en commun demeure un des seuls moyens de déplacer de grands nombres de personnes de façon rapide et durable, mais si la durabilité est l’objectif, il y a beaucoup à faire en ce sens. Un autobus de 18 mètres consomme environ 40 000 litres de diesel par année, ce qui équivaut à 100 tonnes de CO2 juste pour un autobus. C’est là qu’entre en jeu l’électrification du transport en commun, une initiative que le Canada – et la Ville d’Ottawa – s’efforcent d’accélérer. Dans cet épisode, Jim Watson, maire d’Ottawa, discute de ce qui s’en vient à Ottawa alors que l’administration municipale s’efforce d’atteindre son ambitieux objectif : un réseau de transport en commun à consommation énergétique 100 % nette zéro d’ici 2040.

Transcription :

Dan Séguin  00:42

Bonjour tout le monde et bienvenue au balado ThinkEnergy. De nombreux invités de ce balado nous ont parlé en long et en large de l’importance du rôle du secteur des transports dans la quête du Canada d’atteindre la carboneutralité d’ici 2050. Sans l’adoption à grande échelle de véhicules électriques, la décarbonation ne sera tout simplement pas possible. Et on ne parle pas seulement des véhicules électriques personnels, mais aussi du camionnage sur longue distance, des véhicules de construction et, bien entendu, des réseaux de transport en commun. Le transport en commun est le seul moyen de déplacer de grands nombres de personnes de façon rapide et durable. Il y a quelques années à peine, le programme Clean Energy Canada et ses partenaires ont publié un rapport qui révélait que le secteur des transports était responsable de 23 % des émissions de gaz à effet de serre (GES) au Canada. Le rapport révélait aussi que sur les quelque 15 millions de Canadiens qui se déplacent pour aller au travail, seulement 12 % empruntaient le transport en commun. Près de 75 % des usagers de la route conduisaient un véhicule personnel. L’électrification des transports en commun, alliée à la production d’énergie verte et à l’augmentation du nombre d’usagers contribueront toutes immensément à l’amélioration de la pollution de l’air dans les villes. Saviez-vous qu’un autobus de 18 mètres roule jusqu’à 16 heures par jour et qu’un seul de ces autobus consomme environ 40 000 litres de diesel par année? C’est l’équivalent de 100 tonnes de CO2 pour un seul autobus. Le Canada est dans une excellente position puisque 80 % de l’électricité qu’on y produit provient de sources non émettrices. Cela signifie que lorsque les transports seront électrifiés, ils pourront compter sur un réseau d’électricité déjà vert – et qui le devient toujours plus au fil des ans. En avril 2019, la Ville d’Ottawa a déclaré l’état d’urgence climatique et a annoncé dans la même foulée qu’elle accélérait les travaux liés aux plans et aux projets clés pour lutter contre les changements climatiques. D’ailleurs, la Ville d’Ottawa a un objectif très ambitieux : la réduction des émissions de GES de 100 % d’ici 2040, et ce, pour toutes ses activités et services municipaux, y compris le transport en commun. C’est 10 ans de moins que l’objectif fixé par le Canada pour atteindre le « zéro émission ». Ottawa a déjà fait de grands pas avec le lancement du train léger sur rail (TLR) de la ville. Selon la Commission du transport en commun d’Ottawa, le TLR a donné lieu à la plus importante réduction de GES de l’histoire d’Ottawa et, pourtant, les changements surviennent progressivement. D’ici l’automne 2021, la Ville ajoutera quatre autobus électriques à son parc de véhicules. Il ne fait aucun doute qu’un mouvement est en train de se préciser. De plus en plus de citadins se déplacent sur des scooters électriques et sur des vélos électriques pour éviter les écueils de la congestion de la ville. Je constate ce mouvement tous les jours alors que ma conjointe et moi-même partageons une voiture électrique. Et tout récemment, au lieu de prendre notre voiture, nous avons pris nos vélos électriques pour faire nos emplettes dans un rayon de cinq à 10 kilomètres de chez nous. Alors, voici la grande question du jour : est-ce que les réseaux de transport en commun du Canada sont en train d’entrer dans une nouvelle ère de décarbonation, en délaissant les autobus au diesel au profit d’autobus électriques et de trains électriques à faible ou zéro émission, ou encore d’autres modes de déplacement plus propres? À quel rythme pouvons-nous effectuer cette transition? Et comment les municipalités comme Ottawa mènent-elles la charge? Pour alimenter la conversation, j’ai invité le maire d’Ottawa, Jim Watson, pour discuter des objectifs de la municipalité au chapitre des changements climatiques et, particulièrement, de l’électrification du transport en commun de la ville. Monsieur le Maire, bienvenue et merci d’avoir accepté de participer à notre émission aujourd’hui.

 

Jim Watson  05:30

Le plaisir est pour moi. Merci beaucoup.

 

Dan Séguin  05:32

Monsieur le Maire, si je ne me trompe pas, lors de votre élection en 1997, vous êtes devenu le plus jeune maire de l’histoire d’Ottawa. Pour nos auditeurs de l’extérieur d’Ottawa, peut-être pourriez-vous nous parler un peu de vous? Et de ce qui alimente votre passion pour la fonction publique depuis toutes ces années?

 

Jim Watson  05:54

Bien sûr et merci de me donner l’occasion de participer à votre balado. Vous avez raison. À mon élection en effet, je suis devenu le plus jeune maire, je pense que j’avais 35 ou 36 ans. J’avais précédemment été élu comme conseiller municipal à l’âge de 28 ou 29 ans, pour le quartier Capitale. Et j’ai fait deux mandats au conseil municipal à titre de conseiller. Auparavant, j’ai travaillé comme directeur des communications pour le président de la Chambre des communes, et aussi comme attaché de presse. J’ai donc fait le saut du fédéral au municipal, et j’ai adoré chaque instant. C’est un véritable honneur de pouvoir servir la population. J’ai servi à titre de dernier maire élu de l’ancienne ville, avant la fusion. Et là, les choses se sont succédé. Je suis devenu président-directeur général de la Commission canadienne du tourisme, qui est une société d’État et qui s’appelle aujourd’hui Destination Canada. J’ai occupé ce poste environ trois ans. Ensuite, la politique m’a repris dans ses filets, et j’ai été député provincial durant deux mandats pour Ottawa-Ouest—Nepean. J’ai eu l’honneur de diriger trois portefeuilles différents, le dernier étant les Affaires municipales et le Logement. Je suis revenu en politique municipale en 2010 et j’ai été réélu en 2014 et en 2018. J’en suis maintenant à ma 13e année, je pense, comme maire de la Ville d’Ottawa. Treize ans, un chiffre chanceux je suppose. Et comme je l’ai dit, chaque journée me passionne, c’est un grand honneur. Et particulièrement par les temps qui courent, avec la COVID et la situation économique. Ce sont de grands défis.

 

Dan Séguin  07:28

Monsieur le Maire Watson, revenons à avril 2019, lorsque vous avez déclaré l’état d’urgence climatique dans la capitale nationale. Est-ce qu’il y a eu un incident particulier ou un élément déclencheur qui vous a poussé à faire cette déclaration? Ou était-ce simplement une accumulation de preuves qui pointaient toutes vers la même conclusion?

 

Jim Watson  07:50

Je pense qu’on a graduellement réalisé que de plus en plus de pays, de villes et de provinces reconnaissent que les changements climatiques sont une crise mondiale dont il faut vite s’occuper. Et nous, au palier municipal, comme nous sommes le palier de gouvernement le plus pragmatique, nous avions l’occasion non seulement de déclarer l’état d’urgence, mais aussi d’agir concrètement pour l’urgence climatique. C’est une chose d’adopter une résolution sur papier, mais en déclarant l’état d’urgence, il faut passer aux actes. Nous travaillons très fort depuis une couple d’années avec notre personnel, des groupes consultatifs et des experts indépendants en environnement pour faire tout ce que nous pouvons à l’échelle régionale. Nous contribuons aussi à l’échelle nationale par l’entremise de la Fédération canadienne des municipalités pour nous assurer que les instances supérieures du gouvernement, qui ont le plus d’influence en matière de financement, reconnaissent que nous avons besoin de leur aide pour atteindre nos objectifs. Ainsi, au Canada, plus de 450 administrations publiques municipales et régionales ont déclaré l’état d’urgence climatique, y compris de grandes villes comme la nôtre, Montréal, Vancouver, Halifax, Toronto et Edmonton. L’Assemblée des Premières Nations l’a également fait.

Dan Séguin  09:11

D'accord. J’ai lu que les municipalités du Canada ont une influence sur environ 50 % des émissions de gaz à effet de serre au pays. Avec le plan d’action Évolution énergétique, vous avez pour objectif de réduire de 100 % les émissions de gaz à effet de serre dans tous les aspects des activités municipales d’ici 2040. Qu’est-ce que ça signifie concrètement et à quels changements les citoyens doivent s’attendre au cours des deux prochaines décennies?

 

Jim Watson  09:46

Les activités municipales représentent environ 4 % seulement du total des émissions à Ottawa. Alors, comme vous l’avez mentionné, le conseil a pour objectif de réduire les émissions, et notre cible était de les réduire de 30 % d’ici 2025. Mais entre 2012 et 2019, les émissions municipales ont diminué de 34 %. Alors, nous faisons réellement des progrès, et les résultats sont un peu mieux par rapport à l’objectif fixé. Et depuis le lancement du train léger sur rail, la consommation de diesel et les émissions des autobus ont diminué pour la première fois depuis 2012 – et ça, c’est quelque chose de considérable. Nous allons donc continuer à faire ce bon travail. Mais lorsqu’on parle de la corporation de la Ville d’Ottawa, c’est principalement l’hôtel de ville et la bureaucratie autour de la ville. Cependant, il y a aussi la ville d’Ottawa au sens plus large, évidemment, et nous devons travailler avec eux – le secteur privé, les constructeurs résidentiels, etc. – pour nous assurer qu’ils atteignent eux aussi leurs objectifs. Mais je suis très fier du fait, comme je l’ai déjà dit, que nous ayons vu la consommation de diesel et les émissions des autobus diminuer pour la première fois depuis 2012. C’est un bon indicateur de notre performance.

 

Dan Séguin  10:52

Je dois admettre, Monsieur le Maire, que je suis très content de discuter avec vous aujourd’hui du transport en commun. Je sais que vous êtes un usager régulier. Mais après une année comme 2020, où l’achalandage a diminué en raison de la COVID, quels sont les avantages que les résidents devraient connaître? Et pourquoi est-il important d’investir dans le transport en commun?

 

Jim Watson  11:18

Eh bien, évidemment, 2020 a été une année très difficile pour toutes les sociétés de transport en commun, pas seulement à Ottawa, mais partout dans le monde. Chaque réseau de transport en commun, du moins en Amérique du Nord, a accusé une baisse considérable – entre 60 % et 80 % - des revenus et des usagers. La raison est simple : tellement de gens faisaient du télétravail, d’autres ont perdu leur emploi à cause de la COVID-19, et les gens se sentaient plus en sécurité en n’empruntant pas le transport en commun. Tous ces facteurs ont contribué à la baisse d’achalandage. Et ç’a été dur pour notre réseau de transport en commun, surtout que nous venions tout juste de lancer le train léger sur rail. Et bien sûr, les premiers mois du train léger, on a connu beaucoup de problèmes. La plupart de ces problèmes ont été réglés, et le réseau fonctionne vraiment bien. À ma connaissance, 98,5 % des trajets sont à l’heure, ce qui est excellent. Vous savez, ce qui ressort de la COVID, c’est que l’achalandage a diminué. C’est à la fois une bonne et une mauvaise nouvelle. Le côté négatif, c’est que nous aimerions que les chiffres augmentent pour la viabilité du réseau. Le côté positif, c’est que les gens peuvent maintenant utiliser le transport en commun sans être entassés comme des sardines dans le train ou l’autobus. Il y a plus de place aujourd’hui parce qu’il y a moins d’usagers. Alors, nous savons que la réduction des gaz à effet de serre générés par le transport en commun – et par l’O-Train en particulier – va être un outil très important pour réduire nos émissions de gaz à effet de serre et pour nous assurer d’atteindre les standards et les objectifs que nous avons établis, en tant que collectivité, dans le cadre de notre déclaration d’état d’urgence.

 

Dan Séguin  12:53

Monsieur le Maire, quels sont les investissements que vous envisagez de faire sur le plan de l’électrification du transport en commun à Ottawa? Je sais que nous allons recevoir quatre nouveaux autobus électriques d’ici l’automne 2021. Mais quels sont les objectifs à court, moyen et long terme pour l’électrification du transport en commun? À quel moment les autobus seront-ils électriques à 100 %? 

 

Jim Watson  13:24

Eh bien, vous savez, certaines personnes critiquent le fait qu’on reçoive seulement quelques autobus avec notre première commande. Mais je pense que c’est sage de procéder comme ça. On se dit allez, on en reçoit quelques-uns, on les teste dans toutes les conditions climatiques qu’on a chez nous, car comme vous le savez, on a quatre saisons bien distinctes ici. Ottawa est également unique par la grande étendue de son territoire géographique, qui totalise 2 600 kilomètres carrés. Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Montréal et Toronto : ces cinq grandes villes pourraient toutes occuper le territoire d’Ottawa, et il resterait encore de la place. Alors, je ne crois pas qu’on dispose encore de la technologie nécessaire pour faire rouler un autobus électrique sur de grandes distances, dans une ville comme Ottawa, sans devoir le recharger à un moment donné. Voyez-vous, si on envoie un autobus jusqu’à Carp ou à Barrhaven-Sud ou jusqu’à Cumberland et Orléans, c’est très exigeant pour la batterie, et on doit s’assurer que l’autobus ne tombe pas en panne à cause d’une batterie à plat. Nous investissons donc plusieurs millions de dollars pour mettre en place l’infrastructure nécessaire avec notre partenaire, Hydro Ottawa, ainsi qu’avec le fabricant des autobus et OC Transpo. Pour que ces autobus puissent circuler et que les usagers puissent les essayer, il faut qu’on puisse les tester. Et cela se fera au cours des mois à venir, dans les conditions automnales, puis dans les conditions hivernales. Par ailleurs, il y a d’autres composantes de notre réseau de transport en commun : évidemment, nous avons l’O-Train, et vous savez que le train léger sera prolongé encore davantage. En ce moment, il fait 12 kilomètres et comprend environ 13 stations, qui vont de Tunney’s Pasture à l’est, à Hurdman au sud et à Blair à l’est. Et comme vous le savez, l’Étape 2 du train léger est présentement en construction. Avec le prolongement, le train ira plus loin à l’ouest jusqu’au Collège Algonquin et à la promenade Moody, juste aux limites de Kanata. Il se rendra aussi vers l’est jusqu’au chemin Trim et Place d’Orléans. Finalement, il se rendra vers le sud jusqu’au Centre EY, l’aéroport et Riverside Sud, une collectivité qui connaît une forte croissance. Ce sont les prolongements qui sont en cours de réalisation, et le conseil a également approuvé les évaluations environnementales pour le trajet jusqu’à Barrhaven. Car Barrhaven est en forte croissance, comme vous le savez, tout comme Stittsville à Kanata. Nous travaillons actuellement avec le gouvernement fédéral : il nous faut obtenir du financement pour l’Étape 3. Pour l’Étape 2, nous avons tout le financement nécessaire et il est utilisé à très bon escient. Mais nous devons nous rendre encore plus loin, à l’est, à l’ouest et au sud, pour que le réseau soit plus attrayant et plus efficace.

 

Dan Séguin  16:08

Alors, Monsieur le Maire, est-il juste de dire que les conditions climatiques très variées d’Ottawa vont être un facteur pour la faisabilité de l’électrification du transport en commun?

 

Jim Watson  16:20

Eh bien, je pense qu’il faut qu’on en tienne compte, il peut faire très froid l’hiver ici, et nous tenons à nous assurer que les autobus ne tombent pas en panne. Imaginez si un autobus se retrouve immobilisé sur l’accotement de la 174 ou de la 417 parce que la batterie ne fonctionne pas comme elle devrait. Alors, il faut qu’on teste les autobus, c’est la chose sensée à faire. Ce serait impensable d’acheter un parc complet d’autobus, du jour au lendemain, sans les avoir mis à l’essai et sans avoir la certitude qu’ils fonctionnent bien. Vous savez, nous prévoyons des réductions considérables de GES grâce à l’O-Train, mais nous obtiendrons aussi des réductions grâce aux autobus. Juste pour vous donner un exemple, d’ici 2031, la réduction des émissions de gaz à effet de serre de l’O-Train totalisera environ 94 000 tonnes, et les émissions des principaux contaminants atmosphériques seront réduites d’environ 4 600 tonnes. La meilleure arme que nous avons dans notre arsenal pour lutter contre les changements climatiques et pour réduire nos émissions de GES, c’est l’électrification du réseau. Éventuellement, mon but serait que le parc tout entier d’OC Transpo devienne électrique au cours des deux prochaines décennies, si c’est techniquement faisable.

 

Dan Séguin  17:35

J’ai hâte d’entendre votre réponse à ma prochaine question Monsieur Watson. D’un bout à l’autre du pays, les villes sont aux prises avec les enjeux suivants : comment réduire les émissions générées par les transports, comment améliorer la santé de la population et comment diminuer les dépenses municipales. Est-ce que l’électrification du parc automobile des municipalités représente une option intéressante, qui a le potentiel de couvrir les trois enjeux? Quels sont les avantages dont vous espérez qu’Ottawa bénéficie en faisant le saut vers l’électrification et en finançant des projets de ce type?

 

Jim Watson  18:14

Comme vous le savez peut-être Dan, la qualité de l’air est bonne à Ottawa. En contribuant à atteindre le « zéro émission », le transport en commun l’améliorera encore davantage. Sans oublier qu’un réseau de transport en commun plus silencieux rehaussera l’expérience des gens qui vivent et qui travaillent à proximité des trajets. Si on pense aux rues Slater et Albert, à fort achalandage : ça fait beaucoup d’émissions. Personne n’aurait jamais imaginé exploiter une terrasse de café sur Slater ou Albert en raison de la grande quantité d’émanations s’échappant des autobus. Et honnêtement, que dire du bruit des moteurs! C’est un autre aspect qui va améliorer la qualité de vie des gens qui vivent à proximité des trajets. Nous savons que les autobus électriques à batterie ont un coût initial élevé. Mais plus des villes et des administrations municipales du monde investiront dans ces véhicules, leur prix commencera à baisser, ce qui rendra leur acquisition plus faisable. Mais vous savez, comme de nombreuses personnes l’ont réalisé durant la pandémie, le recourt plus important aux modes de transport actifs – comme le vélo et la marche – a aussi des effets positifs sur la santé physique et mentale. On le constate, les gens sont plus nombreux à aller patiner, par exemple, qu’ils l’étaient auparavant. Mais voyez-vous, on a encore beaucoup de travail à faire. C’est la toute première fois que le conseil municipal, dans l’histoire de la Ville d’Ottawa, investit dans des autobus électriques. Et, évidemment, c’est la première fois qu’on investit dans des trains électriques. À moins qu’on tienne compte du tramway, qui était électrique, mais son histoire remonte à tellement longtemps, avant même votre naissance ou la mienne…

 

Dan Séguin  19:40

Maintenant, pouvez-vous m’aider à comprendre ce qui déterminera le succès des réseaux d’autobus de transport en commun en Amérique du Nord? Est-ce que ce serait en faisant la promotion de ces autobus comme étant un mode de transport écologique, pratique et économique? Et qu’en est-il de notre cas : le train léger sur rail. Si ses trajets se prolongent, est-ce que les environnementalistes ou simplement la bonne conscience collective pourraient aider à accroître l’achalandage et réduire l’utilisation des véhicules personnels?

 

Jim Watson  20:15

Oui, c’est une très bonne question. Je crois que le succès repose un peu sur tous les éléments que vous avez mentionnés, mais je pense aussi que ce mode de transport doit, d’abord et avant tout, être pratique pour les gens. Les gens ne veulent pas attendre, disons 50 ou 60 minutes entre chaque train ou chaque autobus. Les véhicules doivent aussi être confortables et sécuritaires pour les usagers. Et le prix doit être abordable. Vous savez, nous avons gelé les tarifs pour la majeure partie de l’année dernière parce que nous ne sommes pas satisfaits du service que nous recevons du Groupe de transport Rideau (GTR). Nous nous efforçons de limiter la hausse du tarif des laissez-passer en fonction du taux d’inflation. De plus, nous avons lancé l’EquiPass pour les usagers dont le revenu est de moins de 20 000 $, si je ne me trompe pas. Pour ces usagers, l’accès au transport en commun est beaucoup plus abordable : ils économisent près de 50 % par rapport au tarif courant du laissez-passer pour adulte. Par ailleurs, nous avons lancé un service sans frais le dimanche pour les aînés, en plus de ce que nous offrons déjà le mercredi. Et bien entendu, d’un point de vue environnemental, c’est un autre argument de vente clé, à mon avis, pour une partie de la population qui tient à protéger l’environnement. Ces citoyens tiennent à ce que le véhicule dans lequel ils se déplacent soit le plus près possible du « zéro émission ».

 

Dan Séguin  21:27

Monsieur le Maire, le secteur des transports est responsable du quart environ des émissions de gaz à effet de serre du monde entier. C’est aussi l’un des grands secteurs où les émissions continuent d’augmenter. Si je ne me trompe pas, Ottawa est plus près de 44 %. L’électrification est grandement considérée comme une belle solution pour réduire la dépendance au transport routier et ses répercussions sur l’environnement. Quelle est la position de la Ville sur le plan des infrastructures pour les véhicules électriques, notamment les bornes de recharge publiques? Et qu’en est-il du potentiel des scooters électriques et des vélos électriques?

 

Jim Watson  22:11

En ce qui concerne la recharge des VE, notre politique exige que des bornes de recharge soient installées aux immeubles auxquels sont apportées d’importantes mises à niveau. Dans le cas des immeubles neufs, les bornes de recharge doivent faire partie des plans de conception. C’est une politique que nous avons adoptée il y a quelque temps déjà. Par exemple, nous avons une borne de recharge, ici à l’hôtel de ville, et on en voit à certains des nouveaux centres récréatifs que nous avons construits à différents endroits de la ville. Le plan d’action Évolution énergétique ne porte pas sur les scooters électriques ou les vélos électriques. Par contre, ces petits véhicules vont faire partie du plan directeur des transports. On avait d’ailleurs un programme de scooters électriques avec trois entreprises l’été dernier, en guise de projet pilote, et nous attendons les résultats. Beaucoup de gens ont adoré le système. Par contre, d’autres ont été mécontents parce que les scooters étaient souvent malencontreusement abandonnés sur les trottoirs et qu’ils représentaient des risques pour les personnes ayant un handicap physique ou visuel. Si nous décidons de rendre ce programme permanent, il va falloir tenir compte de ces aspects. Mais vous savez, on voit des exemples aux quatre coins du monde et, parfois, il est inutile de réinventer la roue. Si le programme de scooters fonctionne, il deviendra un autre mode de transport approprié pour certaines personnes. Mais évidemment, nous voulons la sécurité avant tout : celle des usagers des scooters et celle des gens qui empruntent les trottoirs et les rues à vélo ou à pied.

 

Dan Séguin  23:37

Nous savons que les véhicules « zéro émission » des parcs automobiles municipaux ont généralement un coût initial plus élevé comparativement aux véhicules à moteur à combustion interne. Mais les économies de carburant et de fonctionnement qui sont réalisées au cours de la vie utile du véhicule peuvent compenser le prix d’achat plus élevé. Est-ce que les citoyens d’Ottawa peuvent s’attendre à voir l’effet des économies de coût découlant des véhicules électriques municipaux? Et qu’en est-il de l’infrastructure adaptée à leurs propres véhicules électriques?

 

Jim Watson  24:12

Eh bien, nous ne prévoyons pas subventionner les bornes de recharge pour VE résidentielles. Cela ne fait pas partie de nos plans. Je ne pense pas non plus que les gens s’attendent à ce que nous le fassions. Nous préférons nous concentrer principalement sur les bornes de recharge publiques, par exemple aux centres communautaires. Je sais, entre autres, que Ressources naturelles Canada – le ministère fédéral – a commencé un projet consistant à installer 24 bornes de recharge « sur rue » et à 12 sites à travers la ville, ce que nous apprécions. Nous avons également dégagé des fonds pour l’installation de trois bornes de recharge au Complexe récréatif Bob-MacQuarrie, à Orléans. Ce projet est d’ailleurs déjà en cours. Je pense que les résidents verront réellement des économies de coût lorsqu’ils opteront pour un véhicule électrique. Les conducteurs de véhicules électriques économisent jusqu’à 60 % en frais d’entretien et, évidemment, 50 % en frais de carburant. Un véhicule électrique est bien plus qu’une bonne affaire sur le plan financier, c’est une excellente affaire d’un point de vue intellectuel et écologique.

 

Dan Séguin  25:04

Monsieur le Maire, au fur et à mesure que les besoins de recharge vont augmenter pour les véhicules municipaux, la Ville devra pouvoir compter sur des systèmes de recharge plus efficaces et évolutifs. Qu’elle est votre position quant à l’infrastructure de recharge électrique requise dans le cadre de l’électrification massive du secteur des transports?

 

Jim Watson  25:24

Eh bien, vous savez, nous avons de la chance. Nous avons une députée, Catherine McKenna, qui est aussi ministre de l’Infrastructure. Catherine travaille très fort pour nous aider avec certains de ces projets, particulièrement lorsqu’elle était ministre de l’Environnement. Alors, nous espérons obtenir davantage de soutien du gouvernement fédéral, tant pour les autobus électriques que pour les bornes de recharge. Car de toute évidence, des trois paliers de gouvernement, c’est le nôtre qui est le plus pauvre et, de temps à autre, nous avons besoin d’aide des paliers de gouvernement supérieurs. Il s’agit d’un excellent projet, très tangible et facile à comprendre pour la population : pour que de plus en plus de véhicules électriques soient vendus, il nous faut de plus en plus de bornes de recharge. J’ai vu l’autre jour aux nouvelles qu’en Norvège, il se vend maintenant plus de véhicules électriques que de voitures conventionnelles à essence. C’est le tout premier pays du monde où ça se produit, c’est super pour eux et c’est quelque chose que nous devrions avoir comme but.

 

Dan Séguin  26:32

Bon, c’est le moment de la boule de cristal. Monsieur le Maire, quel avenir idéal voyez-vous pour l’électrification du transport en commun, particulièrement au chapitre de la diminution de la congestion et de l’amélioration de l’expérience vécue par les automobilistes et les usagers?

 

Jim Watson  26:50

D'abord et avant tout, je pense qu’il est important de terminer l’Étape 2 et de la mettre en branle. Il faut qu’un plus grand nombre de personnes utilisent le réseau de trains et le réseau d’autobus qui est relié au réseau de trains. La première phase de l’Étape 2 sera prête à l’automne 2022, ce qui n’est pas si loin. Je parle de la ligne existante de l’O-Train au diesel, pas de la ligne électrique. Mais ensuite, il y a la Ligne de la Confédération, qui va d’est en ouest. La prochaine étape sera en 2025, je crois, pour le prolongement vers l’est, et en 2026 pour le prolongement vers l’ouest, dans ces eaux-là. C’est ma préoccupation pour l’instant, et tout doit être fait pour que les travaux avancent. Ensuite, il faut obtenir le financement pour l’Étape 3, ce qui nous amènera à Barrhaven, Stittsville et Kanata. Par la suite, si on peut appeler ça l’Étape 4, il faudra voir comment on peut travailler avec Gatineau pour établir une connectivité avec leur futur réseau de tramway. Comment ce projet va-t-il pouvoir s’arrimer à notre réseau de train léger au centre-ville? C’est important ça, parce qu’il y a tellement de gens qui travaillent à Gatineau et qui vivent à Ottawa, et vice versa.

 

Dan Séguin  27:58

Merci. Maintenant, êtes-vous prêt à terminer l’entretien avec quelques questions en rafale?

 

Jim Watson  28:03

Bien sûr. J’ai l’impression de me retrouver à un quiz populaire à la télé!

 

 

Dan Séguin  28:06

Monsieur le Maire, quel est votre mot préféré?

 

Jim Watson  28:10

« Merci », on ne le dit pas assez souvent.

 

Dan Séguin  28:20

Quelle est votre vision idéale pour l’avenir d’Ottawa sur le plan de l’électricité?

 

Jim Watson  28:25

Eh bien, il faut continuer de progresser avec le train léger sur rail, avec l’électrification du réseau de transport en commun et, évidemment, il faut que les autobus du réseau et que les véhicules appartenant à la Ville deviennent électriques à 100 %.

 

Dan Séguin  28:40

Quelle est la chose dont vous ne pouvez pas vous passer?

 

Jim Watson  28:44

De l’eau – je bois beaucoup d’eau. Et vous devriez en faire autant!

 

Dan Séguin  28:49

Quelle habitude ou passe-temps avez-vous adopté pendant le confinement?

 

Jim Watson  28:53

Oh, probablement le fait d’être attaché à Netflix, de regarder beaucoup de mauvais films pour passer le temps.

 

Dan Séguin  29:04

Si on vous offrait un pouvoir magique, qu’est-ce que vous choisiriez?

 

Jim Watson  29:08

Je choisirais de pouvoir ramener les gens à la vie.

 

Dan Séguin  29:11

OK, si vous pouviez retourner dans le temps pour parler à votre propre personne à l’âge de 18 ans, que diriez-vous à ce jeune Jim Watson?

 

Jim Watson  29:18

Je lui dirais probablement d’étudier en droit pour avoir des options dans la vie, de ne pas compter uniquement sur la politique, parce qu’il n’y a pas de sécurité d’emploi dans ce domaine.

 

Dan Séguin  29:24

Dernière question : actuellement, qu’est-ce que vous trouvez de plus intéressant dans la vie publique?

 

Jim Watson  29:33

Il y a beaucoup de bonnes choses dans notre collectivité. Elles sont souvent assombries par des sentiments négatifs, et les réseaux sociaux ont tendance à être négatifs, parce que les gens s’y attaquent les uns les autres. Mais j’ai souvent l’occasion de voir le bon côté de la ville d’Ottawa, vous savez un voisin qui aide un voisin, un étranger qui aide un étranger. Je l’ai vu durant les inondations, lors des tornades et depuis le début de la pandémie. Et il y a beaucoup de bonté dans le monde; malheureusement, elle est souvent éclipsée par la négativité qui ressort dans les médias.

 

Dan Séguin  30:05

Eh bien Monsieur le Maire, nous voici à la fin d’un autre épisode du balado ThinkEnergy. Merci beaucoup d’avoir été avec nous aujourd’hui. C’était un grand plaisir.

 

Jim Watson  30:15

Merci beaucoup à vous, c’était un honneur. Merci de m’avoir invité. À la prochaine.

 

Dan Séguin  30:22

Merci à tous nos auditeurs. J’espère vraiment que vous avez aimé cet épisode du balado ThinkEnergy. Pour écouter les épisodes précédents, n’hésitez pas à visiter notre site Web à hydroottawa.com/podcast. Et en terminant, si vous appréciez les sujets abordés dans notre balado, ne manquez pas de vous abonner. C’est tout pour aujourd’hui. À bientôt tout le monde.

Electricity and trees seldom mix. But that doesn't mean they can't be good neighbors. Across the city of Ottawa, there are an estimated 185,000 trees in proximity to Hydro Ottawa's 2,800 kilometers of overhead high-voltage power lines. The lines run to all neighborhoods bringing electricity to over 340,000 homes and businesses. As a utility, the goal is to balance power supply reliability with environmental concerns, such as respecting the natural beauty of our community’s tree canopy. In this episode, Nick Levac, Supervisor of Distribution Operations at Hydro Ottawa, and Greg Tipman, Forestry Inspector at Hydro Ottawa, share all about their efforts in striking this balance.

Related Content & Links:

• Hydro Ottawa Tree Planting Advice [PDF]: https://static.hydroottawa.com/documents/publications/safety/tree_planting_advice-EN.pdf
• Greg Tipman’s favourite trees:
  • Eastern white pine - https://www.ontario.ca/page/eastern-white-pine 
  • The monkey puzzle tree - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Araucaria_araucana 
  • Giant Sequoia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequoiadendron_giganteum 
  • Charlie Brown Christmas tree - https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Charlie_Brown_tree

Transcript:

Dan Seguin  00:42

Hey, everyone, welcome back. This is the ThinkEnergy podcast. Dr. Thomas Fuller said it best, "He that plants trees loves others besides himself." And that dates back to 1732. Now let's fast forward to today. Based on aerial imagery and laser sensory technology, the National Capital Commission reported in a recent study that nearly half of the National Capital Region is under the cover of trees: 46% to be precise. Given Dr. Fuller's memorable quote, it looks like Ottawa-Gatineau has a lot of love for its residents. And if you know anything about electricity, you know that electricity and trees seldom mix. But that doesn't mean they can't be good neighbors. Across the city of Ottawa, there are an estimate of 185,000 trees in proximity to Hydro Ottawa's has 2800 kilometers of overhead high-voltage power lines. The lines run to all neighborhoods bringing electricity to over 340,000 homes and businesses. As a utility, the goal is always to balance reliability of the power supply with the environmental concerns such as respecting the natural beauty of your community’s tree canopy. Trees provide all sorts of environmental and energy saving benefits from absorbing CO2 to releasing oxygen back into the air, to providing shade from the sun and reducing excess heat in our home if they're planted in the right place. But, that being said, during storms, broken tree branches can bring down power lines and create serious public safety concerns like damaged equipment, fires, and power outages. Vegetation management, commonly known as tree trimming, identifies hazards and fixes them by pruning trees and redirecting growth away from power lines. All the while, making every effort to ensure trees remain healthy. Highly skilled arborists trim and cut trees near electrical equipment and wires based on tree species growth patterns, geography and line voltage. This work has resulted in reducing power outages by 40% in Ottawa. In fact, between 2019 and 2020, tree contact with power lines was the cause of only 7% of all outages. This is in large part thanks to the preventive measures that utilities like Hydro Ottawa take all year long, with the extreme weather events we've witnessed in the past years, and as climate continues to change, the outcomes will create more problems for utilities to provide reliable power to customers without extended outages. So here's today's big question: In the age of climate change and environmental responsibility, how can utility companies strike a balance between maintaining reliable service, minimizing outages and maintaining a healthy and vibrant urban forest? To help us better understand this balancing act, I've invited our Supervisor of Distribution Operations at Hydro Ottawa Nick Levac and one of the Forestry inspectors, Greg Tipman. Welcome to you both. Greg, I'll start with you. Can you tell us a bit about your work and what the biggest misconceptions are about tree trimming and vegetation control programs when it comes to electricity?

 

Greg Tipman  05:06

For sure, Dan, and just again, thanks for having us on your podcast this morning. It's getting kind of meat potatoes, you know, my daily job encompasses speaking with customers, addressing the vegetation concerns around power lines, auditing of the contractor we use, which is Asplundh Tree Service. There's also coordinating of our jobs, our time and material jobs. So it's stuff that I look at and deal with the customer and then gets delegated directly to a secondary crew to do that specific work for the customer. There's also writing of prescriptions for any work for other jobs for the customers. So specific work they want Hydro Ottawa to do that's outside of our regular trim program. Some of the biggest misconceptions that I've run into is that a lot of the public thinks that our tree work is just a hack and slash that there's no thought or science put into the tree trimming that's actually going on, when in actuality, we have a whole set of standards for proper pruning, and tree trimming of the species around the Hydro wires. And that kicks back to our working procedures or our lifeline clearing techniques. And then there's another misconception that I've run into quite a bit: a lot of people think that for us, or for our contractor to do the tree trimming, the power has to be shut off every single time. And that's, that's not the case. We like to keep it as a very rare scenario when we do have to shut the power off. And that's usually just for a safety issue for the for the tree trimmers.

 

Dan Seguin  06:56

Okay, Nick, we often say that trees and electrical wires don't mix. What types of dangerous situations can occur if they come into contact with one another? Is there maybe a recent example you can share with us?

 

Nick Levac  07:14

Yeah, so I mean, first in mine is obviously power outages. That's kind of the first thing that we hear about when a tree comes down on our conductors. But, you know, the power outages can vary from a whole circuit right back to a substation to just a localized outage in your community or along your streets. The other thing, if the tree does come down on the line, and our in our system doesn't experience an outage, oftentimes trees can catch on fire. So we've had, we've had examples over the years where a tree is rested on a line, nobody notices it, and then eventually, it'll catch on fire, which, which obviously can cause other issues. And especially in the summertime with dry conditions. If that does come down to the ground, I could, you know, start forest fires, which, unfortunately, our neighbors in the south of us have experienced down in California and stuff, but there was one larger outage. And I think it was a start in November, November 2, where a spruce tree that was quite a bit away from the line did fail, and it came down and took down two conductors out at the end of my road, I believe it was and it caused a large outage. In a sense, those are almost better to have because it's easier to find that tree and where the problem is, and we can get crews out to fix it in a quick manner. But that's probably the most recent one that we found that had a major outage and a big impact on system.

 

Dan Seguin  08:49

So we're clear, Nick, what are the guidelines that determine if tree trimming or vegetation management near power lines is required? What does sufficient clearance from electrical equipment look like?

 

Nick Levac  09:06

Yeah, so like Greg mentioned in the first question there, we have our arbors going through our system, and we're looking at standards that we trim to the city is divided up into about 30 vegetation management zones. And they're divided into either a two or three year trim cycle, which means you'll see arborist in your backyard or on the streets, trimming out to our guidelines, either every second year or third year. Our main goal, there's a couple of them. But our main goal when we're trimming to our standards that we have is when we come back and either two or three years, the vegetation that we trimmed out is still three feet away. There's different zones that we have from 10 feet back to the conductor or the live overhead wire, and from the wire out to three feet is called the restricted zone. And as I mentioned that that's where we do not want the vegetation to get into. Because if we, if it does get in there creates a bunch of different problems for our, for our tree arborist to go in there. And as Greg mentioned, outages is the last thing we want to do when we're trimming trees. And if that vegetation does get into that restricted zone, increased outages for trimming, there is an option that we have to look at which we're trying to avoid. So that's, that's kind of our main goal. We look at the species of tree and how much it would grow in a year. And as the arborist comes through, they're going to trim back that many feet. So if we have a fast growing species that grow, say, three or four feet a year, and we're going to be back in two years, we're going to trim that back three feet times two, plus the additional three feet. So we're looking at about a 10 foot trim on that.

 

Dan Seguin  10:49

Nick, pruning, and especially removal of interfering trees, often causes controversy. In an age of climate change and environmental responsibility, what do you tell folks that object to or have concerns about the important work you do to help keep the lights on and the trees safe?

 

Nick Levac  11:15

Yeah, that's a great question. We, you know, I think you hit the last word there. And your question kind of hits on our main goal of everything that we do here at hydro is safety. So not only we're looking out for the public safety, ensuring that trees aren't coming down on the line and staying energized. But we're also looking to know for worker safety. So as we're going through, we try to do preventative maintenance, so to speak. So very much like you get your oil change in a car, or you put your winter tires on this time of year, we're trying to trim trees away from the lines to make sure they don't come in contact that avoids outages, unplanned outages, especially because, you know, it's one thing to get a phone call to say, Hey, your power is going to be out because we're doing preventative maintenance, whether it's tree trimming, or upgrading electrical system, it's another thing to wake up at two o'clock in the morning, after lights out, heat off and everything and it's unexpected, and you're trying to get ready, your kids are at home or whatever. So preventative maintenance is the big thing. And we try to educate our customers that what we're doing out there is really just to make sure that we can decrease outages and especially those unplanned outages. The other thing that we look at when we're pruning trees is the tree health. And I know Greg's going to get into this I think a little bit later on. But just looking at the species a tree and how we trimmed them to make sure that the health of the tree is also a huge interest for our arborists that are up there. They're all certified trained arborist with some extra training on the electrical side, because obviously we're turning around live electrical lines. But when they get up into a tree, they're looking at the health of the tree. There's a lot of stuff once they get up into the canopy of the tree that they notice that you can't see from the ground. So they're taking into account and they're taking out any deadwood or anything in there and tried to not only like I mentioned before getting those clearances that we need for the electrical side, but also trying to enhance the tree growth away from our lines and looking at the health of the tree by taking the deadwood or anything out of it.

 

Dan Seguin  13:16

Okay, so back to you, Greg. I know you trim trees on public property that are within three meters of an overhead line. But what about on a private property? Trees near utility lines inherently carry serious risk to property owners who may be injured or killed when working on trees near power lines. What are homeowners responsible for? And when should they call us, the utility, to arrange for their help? Like a planned outage? Basically, what do homeowners need to know?

 

Greg Tipman  13:57

Yeah, Dan. So when you're speaking about kind of responsibilities on vegetation maintenance, Hydro Ottawa was responsible for the pole, the pole wire, and vegetation maintenance. The area around the high voltage wire that hydro trims as part of our responsibility is 10 feet from the primary which is usually the very top wire running pole, as well as about a three foot clearance around our low voltage or secondary wires. And again, that's the pole the pole wires just want to make that a bold statement. That's Hydro's responsibility as part of our maintenance package. Kind of like Nick was touching up on and that's that that happens, pending what grid what year, you know, two to three years central, within kind of the city core versus the outer rural areas. If a customer is looking to have work done on their tree which is growing out into their private property, and it's near our overhead wires, Hydro comes in free of charge, we get it clear 10 feet 10 feet back debris would stay on site. And then it would be the homeowners responsibility to either cut the tree down themselves hire private tree contractor, or if they wanted, they could also hire Hydro Ottawa, do our work for others program, and we would write them out a formal tree quote. And they would, they would pay an additional cost for that, that work that's outside of our regular maintenance scope. Now in regards to the wires running pole to house service wire, or if you're in a rural area, and it's a private primary wire, there's a couple options that they have for having those what those wires that vegetation trimmed out, they can either hire a private tree contractor, and Hydro Ottawa, or service department provides one free disconnect a year for any tree work. Little bit more legwork for the customer or the contractor to do, but it's an entirely viable option. The second option is they can again hire Hydro, to trim out their service wire to whatever specs we normally recommend it you know, it's a low voltage secondary wire to have about a three foot clearance on it, they want us to go with that option. I would write them out a formal tree quote, have all the details, proof of payment beforehand would be had. And then we would schedule in the customer an exact date. And they would essentially have the work done to what the quote was that they're paying for the work to be done and, and go from there. It's quite effective. We've gotten a lot of feedback from the customers about having their service wire trimmed down. And there's been a lot of good things to have come from having us on site. And just doing it all and not having to worry with them having to organize an outage on their house. So it's, it's been a good go.

 

Dan Seguin  17:03

Here's another one for you, Greg, went planting a young sapling, it's often difficult to imagine that in as few as 10 years, it could have a significant impact on the landscape with an expanding canopy as a homeowner or a landscaper. If you're planting a new tree, how important is it to contact your utility service provider? To discuss your plan? Do you have any tree planting advice? Or some good resources on what to plant? And where?

 

Greg Tipman  17:40

Yes, yes. So basically, Hydro Ottawa has a really good source on our internet page. Basically, just type in Google Hydro Ottawa Tree Planting Advice, and it's a pamphlet that's been put on to the internet and it has everything for suggestions of where the tree should be planted, what type of species is it? How tall? Will it grow? How wide will the canopy grow? How many feet back from an overhead wire should be planted? It has a breakdown of you know, species names, what soils are best to be planted in? You know, like I said, their typical growth structure in relation to overhead wires. And there's also advice given on planting around underground wires, which a lot of people you know, you don't see them, you don't really think they're there. But they are, you know, most people just see the, you know, the green box, the ground transformer, if you will, but where are the wires going? Which, which way Can I can I plant and whatnot. So it's a really great resource has a lot of information, a lot of diagrams. Definitely check it out. And then another great option would be just put a call in, have myself or Nick show up. And, you know, we can tell you, you know, basically where, what, what's the lay of the land? What is your yard showing you? You know, are there other trees in the neighborhood or in your yard, you can get a very good look just from seeing what's out there, what to expect. And then and then go from there.

 

Dan Seguin  19:29

Okay, we'll actually have for our listeners in the show notes. We'll have links to all of these publications and the actual section on the website. So definitely we'll drive traffic there. Because the last thing I think we want is for me to put your extension number, your mobile number and have 100 calls tomorrow.

 

Greg Tipman  19:51

There we go. I like push it all in there.

 

Dan Seguin  19:56

Okay, Nick. This next question might be in your wheelhouse. A power outage occurs when there's a direct contact between two conducting lines with face to face. Or by providing a path for electricity to travel to the ground. There are several other ways that vegetation, trees in particular, can cause power outages, wondering if you could expand on those causes and how utilities and folks in your profession mitigate that?

 

Nick Levac  20:35

Yeah, it's an interesting question. It's obviously something we look at all the time. And that's our biggest goal within our department is to mitigate those outages. And I actually came from a background in the lines department as a power line maintainer for 10 years and swung over and got into working with the veg. management program. And, you know, I'd say it's a really good partnership that we have right now, not only with, with Greg and our other utility forestry inspectors, but along with our contractor Asplund who's doing the work for us. And, you know, that's a constant conversation that we're having weekend week out. And not only are we reviewing any outages that might have occurred the week before and trying to follow up on those to see why those power outages occurred and how we can hopefully prevent them from reoccurring. But within the system itself, the electrical system, we have, it's very much like your house where it's set up where we have different circuits all the way through the city. And within each circuit, we have different fusing, the further you get away from the substation. So the fuse in coordination can really help out if you have a tree that falls at the very end of that circuit, we have the fusion set up in a way that it's only going to go back to the next device downstream. And if everything is working properly, that fuse will open up and it'll really shrink the size of that outage rather than going all the way back to the substation. So if you can imagine if you have 1000 customers on a circuit, and you have 10, different fuses all the way down, and that last one blows, you're going away affect 100 people instead of 1000 people. Also, within our system, we have devices called reclosers. So I'm sure many listeners have had their lights flicker on and off two or three times. And then unfortunately, after that third flicker, the power does stay off permanently. That means that there's a bigger issue on the line and that reclosure could self-clear. So those devices are there. For momentary outages, when they see a spike in amperage, they'll open up the circuit and give time for that tree or whatever that foreign interference is to clear itself. And then close back in with the hopes that once it closes back in that power will stay on. If it senses that it's still there, it'll open back up again. Hopefully allow it to clear a little bit longer closed back in again. And hopefully the second time's a charm. Unfortunately, sometimes that doesn't work. And then you experienced that outage, kind of the last kind of protection in the whole stream of protection devices is that circuit breaker back at the station. That's kind of the worst case if we see a circuit open up. That means that there's a major problem. Usually, like you mentioned there, there's a phase two phase kind of issue where two conductors have slapped together. And that's kind of what causes the biggest outage, that's when we know we have a large problem. And the other issue with that is because our circuits are so long, some of them you know, in the downtown core where we have more substations, it's a little bit easier to find because you know, the circuit might only be say a kilometer or two long, but if you get out into the rural Orleans, Kanata, down south - though, manotick, nepean area, you can have, you know, 10-15-20 kilometers a line. So, if your circuit breaker and your station opens up, that means that somewhere between your station and the end of the line is your problem. So there are fault indicators and stuff on your line that can help pinpoint it. But it definitely can make it more challenging when you're when you're starting back at your substation not having to patrol 20 kilometers a line versus if that fuse opens at the very end of your line, you know, okay, it's the last section within that line. The other thing that can really help us out is the customers in the field. So a lot of times we'll get calls in and it's great to get that information and Hydro Ottawa is very active on social media and that that definitely helps if, if a customer sees a problem if they see a line down if they see a bright blue flash if they hear a large loud bang. You know, first and foremost, let us know don't ever approach downed wires Stay away, even trees that could be leaning up against the wire. But I and I mentioned this before, just because the trees against the wire if that wire still energized that could potentially energize that trees, we want to make sure we stay back, you know. Stay back 10 meters from that tree stay back 10 meters from that electrical line because you don't know if it's on, or if it's still alive. So your safety is first and foremost, call in, call 911, if there's any, you know, immediate hazard fire, police can come in and assist, they will get a hold of our system office right away and direct us to that. Or if it's something that's, you know, a little bit less and you think that hydro should know, we have lots of different social media channels you can reach out on. And let us know. And that really does help because that information does find its way down to the crews in the fields. And it helps us get to the outage and find that problem that's causing the damage that much quicker.

 

Dan Seguin  25:51

Yeah, for sure. I know, historically, we've had customers actually send us photos on Twitter. Yeah, that we could actually send systems office so they can actually identify, they would know exactly where that is. And they helped out the guys on like the field workers.

 

Nick Levac  26:06

Yeah, no, that's, that's great. And I mean, I was, I was on that first response truck there 24/7crew for multiple years. And it was great. I mean, you know, when the days are getting darker and the nights it's in the middle of night, the last thing you want to do is be trying to find, find an outage and or the cause of an outage. And it's kind of like finding a needle in a haystack sometimes out there. So anything from the customers is a great help.

 

Dan Seguin  26:35

Yeah, definitely. Okay, in addition to being a qualified arborist, Greg, you also have extensive knowledge about electricity. Can you talk about this dual role and special qualifications that you have? How dangerous is your job? And do you work around live electricity at high voltage?

 

Greg Tipman  26:59

Yeah, Dan. So just a little background on my schooling and qualifications. I did my forestry technologist diploma at Algonquin - a two year program. And then from there, I moved out to BC to work on some really big trees. And while out there, I morphed into the utility side of tree work. And that's where I went and did my apprenticeship program. From there, you need approximately 4000 hours just to qualify, the program's a two year program, you've accumulated about 6000 hours around of live line clearing, working around the wires, you'll learn how it looks just all the basics, electricity, how it works, how to identify the equipment, that coupled with your actual tree work in the tree, the tools, special tools you'll be using, so dielectrically tools, how to operate bucket trucks, so on and so forth. Rigging big chunks of wood down in trees, how to do it safely, and all the while in close proximity to these overhead high voltage wires. It's very dangerous. I mean, you couple your, you know, 30-40-50-60 feet up hanging by ropes, you're using a chainsaw to cut wood. Plus, you have a live line that's, you know, five, six feet away from you. So it's definitely very dangerous. But the schooling, the on the job training that you get just, you know, old hands, showing you the techniques, the up to date, safety standards, and whatnot. It makes your comfort level something that would never, you know, come natural to you become second nature. So it's, it's definitely a process, it's definitely building the confidence over time. And then, you know, taking classes, learning whether it's through the International Society of arboriculture on the tree side of things for tree health, you know, one of the tree species tree biology pests, you know, a lot of times customers will ask, you know, why is my tree dying? What Why is it declining? A lot of times people will think, Oh, it's Hydro Ottawa you trimmed the tree incorrectly. Well, no, it's, you know, a pest infestation or you did some landscaping or whatnot, the roots have been killed and whatnot. So it's learning all that you know, information and coupling it and pairing it with the electrical side of things that it really makes for a harmonious job and, you know, a great aspect to keep learning There's always new information, new research coming out on trees and the electrical side of things you know, and then just basically, you know, having the resources also at Hydro Ottawa, it makes that partnership that much better for getting the work done and done safely.

 

Dan Seguin  30:24

So Greg, I've seen some amazing footage of folks in your profession climbing pretty high in trees. So besides not having a fear of heights. What's that like? And what's your favorite thing about your job? Have you ever been surprised by some birds or squirrels? Or, you know, have they surprised you? Or have you surprised them?

 

Greg Tipman  30:49

Yeah, so kind of, like I was touching on there. I mean, the fear of heights is not was never really the big deal. It was more trusting your gear. Knowing that you know what a 10-12 millimeter diameter rope is going to hold you and your gear. You know, it's going to hold, you know, wood swinging around and whatnot, it's not going to break off, you know that your knots have been tied correctly, they're not going to come undone, you're going to fall to your death and get injured or whatnot. Those were kind of the first fears to really get over. But once you get that it's practice, the more you do it, the more you get comfortable doing it. The more you feel safe and secure. I've definitely had some weird, interesting animal encounters while working in the trees. I've had birds land on my head and stay there while working. I've had raccoons, you know, climb out of hollows. I've had bats, you know, fly out from underneath bark. But probably the scariest was wasn't in the tree yet. But we're doing some ground slash in BC and probably 10-12 feet away. A black bear just goes running right by and yeah, it was exhilarating. But it was done in a flash and yeah, nothing. Nothing more. But you know, it definitely, you know, could have been a different interesting situation had it been a, you know, an angry bear, if you will. Yeah, for the most part. It's the job. You get to see nature all the time. And there's always something great to see, animal wise.

 

Dan Seguin  32:33

Cool. Okay, both. Are you ready to tag team here and close us off with some rapid fire questions?

 

Greg Tipman  32:43

Definitely.

 

Nick Levac  32:43

Yep.

 

Dan Seguin  32:45

Greg, what is your favorite tree?

 

Greg Tipman  32:48

Can I give you four Dan?

 

Dan Seguin  32:51

Sure. Why not?

 

Greg Tipman  32:53

So Eastern white pine. The monkey puzzle tree. Giant Sequoia and the Charlie Brown Christmas tree.

 

Dan Seguin  33:03

Okay, that's good. Yeah, we I might ask you to provide the links. So I can direct listeners to those trees. Nick, what is one thing you can't live without?

 

Nick Levac  33:18

That's an easy one. It's got to be my family. My two girls at home my lovely wife and, and probably a good cup of coffee or a nice Americano in the morning just to get things going.

 

Dan Seguin  33:29

Cool. Greg, what habit or hobby? Have you picked up during shelter in place?

 

Greg Tipman  33:37

Probably flying and crashing my drone.

 

Dan Seguin  33:43

Okay, yeah.

 

Greg Tipman  33:44

A little more practice.

 

Dan Seguin  33:47

Yeah, more practice! Nick, if you could have one superpower, what would it be?

 

Nick Levac  33:56

Ah, you know what I think never to age physically. Only in wisdom. The body's getting a little bit older and every you know, every time I go out and try to play hockey or do something now I wake up a little bit sore in the morning so I could keep my physical health. Maybe back when I was in my 20s. That would be amazing.

 

Dan Seguin  34:17

And what about you, Greg?

 

Greg Tipman  34:25

Maybe just unlimited superpowers.

 

Dan Seguin  34:28

All of them,

 

Greg Tipman  34:29

All of them!

 

Dan Seguin  34:30

Okay. Back to you, Nick. If you could turn back time and talk to your 18 year old self. What would you tell them?

 

Nick Levac  34:40

You know, I'd probably try to let them in on a couple of neat, you know, world events that were going to take place between then and then when they're my age now and just make Tell him to go there. Make sure he's present and no matter what the cost is. Sometimes you only get a once in a lifetime chance to see things and make sure he gets there to experience that life live.

 

Dan Seguin  35:05

Okay. And lastly, this one is for both. What do you currently find most interesting in your sector? I'll start with Greg.

 

Greg Tipman  35:15

It's a, it's really the day to day change, there's always a different challenge that's coming up, you're always in a different location dealing with different people. So it's never, you know, a monotonous job, it's, it's always fluid, there's always something new.

 

Dan Seguin  35:34

Okay, what about you, Nick.

 

Nick Levac  35:35

I, what excites me the most coming down the pipe, I think is the technology that hopefully we're going to be exposed to, I mean, Greg mentioned, crashing his drone, but you know, just even stuff like that, and us being able to fly over our overhead lines and really take a good snapshot of what that vegetation looks like within our city. And, and what we can do to kind of have a good mix between, you know, maintaining that urban canopy in Ottawa, and then also at the same time keeping the electricity on and if we can use different types of technology that's coming down the pipe to find a balance between the two that we can get out and, and proactively trim trees because we know exactly where they are. And also keep that urban canopy for that for customers here in Ottawa. I think there's a there's an interesting mix coming down, how we can leverage that technology to our advantage.

 

Dan Seguin  36:27

Okay, Nick, Greg, we reached the end of another episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. I hope you had a lot of fun. And thank you very much for joining me today. I hope you I hope you enjoyed it.

 

Greg Tipman  36:42

Thanks again for having us, Dan.

 

Nick Levac  36:44

Yes, thank you, Dan.

 

Dan Seguin  36:48

Thank you for joining us today. I truly hope you enjoyed this episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. For past episodes, make sure you visit our website hydroottawa.com/podcast. Lastly, if you found value in this podcast, be sure to subscribe. Anyway, this podcast is a wrap. Cheers, everyone.

 

While we mostly want to say "Bah humbug" and forget 2020 ever happened, for me, there were some special moments and amazing guests that I had on the show this year who are worth remembering. In this episode, we look at the 12 days of podcast past with some of the most fascinating people I spoke to this year. You'll hear from industry experts about E-bikes, district and renewable energy, EVs and more. So here's today's big question: What did you learn from the ThinkEnergy podcast this year?

Speakers:Host: Dan Seguin, Brandy Giannetta, Francis Bradley, Andrea Flowers, Jeff Westeinde, Seth Weintraub, Joseph Muglia, Kevin Lee, Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin, Blair Maye, Michelle Branigan, Raed Kadri

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Transcript:

Dan Seguin  00:42

Hey, everyone, welcome back. This is a very special episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. While we mostly want to say Bah, humbug, and forget 2020 ever happened. For me, there are some special moments and amazing guests that I had on the show this year, who are worth remembering. So for today's podcast, we're looking at the 12 days of podcast past with some of the most fascinating people I spoke to this year. You'll hear from industry experts about E-bikes, district and renewable energy, EV's and much more. So here's today's big question. What did you learn from the ThinkEnergy podcast this year?  Number 12. kicking us off. Number 12 is Kevin Lee, Chief Executive Officer for the Canadian Home Builders Association. And how net zero homes are the future with 111 million tons of greenhouse gas emissions released into the atmosphere from Canadian homes and buildings, every year, we're all looking at ways to reduce our carbon footprint. I asked Kevin when building or renovating to net zero standards. With the key considerations are: how much does it entail? Are we talking about everything from walls, ventilation, foundation, windows and more?

 

Kevin Lee  02:24

Oh, absolutely. I mean, certainly, when you're driving to get down to basically using close to zero energy, you have to look at everything that uses energy and that can you know, save energy and be efficient with energy. So every element of the home, as you said, walls, ceilings, foundations, windows, mechanical systems, hugely important. So you have to look at all of it and and where do you start? Well, frankly, if you're a homebuyer, you start by looking for a builder with the experience and know how to do this and and even through our programs. And we follow, we use the inner guide rating system, which is a government of Canada system and label for measuring the energy performance of homes. And there are energy advisors that are certified by the Government of Canada to do that. And we provide those energy advisors, additional training, to work with our builders to be experts and getting all the way to net zero. So they're sort of recognized through our program through additional training and education. So really as a as a homebuyer or a homeowner, because we now have a retrofit program as well for renovating houses to get to this level. Really, it's finding the right finding the right contractor homebuilder, you know, you can look at ch va.ca. And you can find a list of our rent renovators and our home builders that are certified, they know what they're doing. And they're working very closely with an energy advisor who works on the design because like I said, when you're trying to get to net zero, you're talking about squeezing every ounce of energy you can out of that house on and it's every element. So it's not so much that you start one place you look at everything.

 

Dan Seguin  04:01

Number 11. Coming in at number 11 I spoke to Jeff Westeinde de president of Zibi Canada, to ask him what happens when you use a network of hot and cold water pipes, bury them underground, and then use them to efficiently heat and cool buildings, and even whole communities. Jeff and his team are using district energy to achieve a zero carbon footprint at Zibi in 34 acre waterfront community in downtown Ottawa. On a hot summer day. Back in August, I asked him what's behind the one planet system he's looking to achieve.

 

Jeff Westeinde  04:44

We have to live as if we only have one planet. Most people when I say that look at me and sort of go but we only do have one planet and we need to remind them that if you live like a typical Canadian, you're using four planets of resources to sustain your unsustainable lifestyle in America. And using five planets, Europeans using three planets, and all we're doing is stealing from future generations and the developing world to sustain our unsustainable lifestyles. So one planet really is all about both environmental sustainability, like technical sustainability and social sustainability with one planets worth of resources and and it's a very holistic, holistic program, very audacious goals, we're going to talk about zero carbon. So as you know, Zb is in the nation's capital in Ottawa and Gatineau. You know, we are we are today we're going to be at plus 34 degrees, six months from now we'll be at minus 34 degrees Celsius, and and to be zero Kerman. In this environment, it's the Holy Grail. So achieving one plant is not an easy thing to do very audacious. But that's, that's where we said, No, that's the bar we need to hit, we need to again, leave our campsite better than we came to.

 

Dan Seguin  06:02

Number 10. Francis Bradley, the President and CEO of the Canadian lectricity Association, sat down with me in October to talk about Canada's electric future, and why we're well positioned to bring our electricity grid into the 21st century. Here is a favorite snippet of mine, from Francis Bradley, at number 10.

 

Francis Bradley  06:29

You know, to begin with, where we're starting from is we're starting from a place that is the envy frankly, of a lot of other jurisdictions. compared to most other countries, our sector is already clean. So we're starting from a clean, relatively clean sector to begin with. It's one of the cleanest electricity sectors in the world, we have the advantage of remarkably low carbon electricity grid, and it's been getting cleaner. So from 2000 to 2017, there's been a reduction in our sectors carbon dioxide, emissions of 42%. So more than 80% of the electricity in in Canada now comes from non emitting sources. And so we continue to focus on decarbonisation, the, the targets that I'd mentioned earlier, are going to mean that that decarbonisation and further electrification are going to absolutely be required if we're going to, to meet our our climate challenges of the future. So, you know, among those challenges that the that are out there, a lot of people think that electrification is about the growth of electric vehicles, but it's going to be a lot more than that. mass transit, heavy duty trucking, I mean, those are going to be significant into the future. But also, you know, you know, we looked at a study by the electric power Research Institute, they noted that electrification in the US could increase their demand, anywhere from 24 to 52%. We've seen studies in Canada that suggests that demand for electricity may double or even triple if we move forward and and begin to reach our 2050 targets.

 

Dan Seguin  08:14

Number nine. Like Francis said, when we talk about electrification of transportation, we tend to think about electric vehicles. But there's another sub genre of electric transportation that is rapidly growing in popularity. ebikes in August, Seth Weintraub and award winning tech journalist and blogger told me why he thinks electric bikes are one of the biggest technology transformations happening right now.

 

Seth Weintraub  08:49

Absolutely. And, you know, I didn't allude to it earlier. But when you think about how much power you actually need to get, you know, the 510 mile commute that you do every day, compared to even a an electric car. It's a fractal. It's a small fraction. So for instance, for my an entire week of going, you know, I do a lot of my work at the coffee shop in town for an entire week, I can go off of one 500 watt hour battery. So, you know, in comparison that would drive my Tesla, probably about a mile or so. You know, I'm going, I don't know, 20 times as far as you can go on a car on the same amount of energy. So you know, if everybody wrote a bike instead of, I mean, even an electric car, and then you know, obviously, gasoline cars are much worse on the environment than that. But I mean, just even compared to an electric car, an electric bike is so much more fuel efficient. You know, obviously Many people could ride bikes for the for one person riding a car in terms of energies usage.

 

Dan Seguin  10:05

Number eight. In September, I interviewed Andrea Flowers, the Senior Project Manager for environmental programs, planning, infrastructure, and economic development for the City of Ottawa, and learned that roughly 50% of all greenhouse gas emissions in Canada, come from municipalities. Andrea talked to me about an action plan called Energy Evolution to reduce emissions from the community by 100% by 2050. And from the city operations by 100% by 2040. At number eight, Here's an excerpt from that conversation,

 

Andrea Flowers  10:53

maybe a bit of background, so Ottawa undertakes greenhouse gas emissions inventories every year so that we know where our emissions come from. And in 2018, the most recent year that we have right now, roughly 90% of the emissions in Ottawa came from the building and transportation sectors, basically how we heat and cool our homes and how we get around the city. And if we look at those emissions, and the contributing sources of emissions, then natural gas is by far the largest contributor in the community, followed by gasoline and diesel. And, of course, given the scope and scale of the transportation system in our building sector, it's going to be really difficult to shift away from these emission sources. And then even beyond this, of course, there's risk that the public won't make or accept the types of changes required. And I'm cognizant of the fact that there's a huge Equity and Inclusion risk for this transition, we need to find ways that everybody can participate in climate solutions, and not just the people who can afford it.

 

Dan Seguin  12:00

Number seven - I sat down with Jim Pegg, Director of infrastructure, product and service at environment energy solutions, to understand what part utilities play in electric vehicle infrastructure and services to encourage a smooth transition for EV adoption. utility is absolutely a part of that. Because, you know, at the end of the day, people, myself included look to the utility for a reliable power supply. And as we're converting things like fleets, and even, especially transportation fleets, that reliable power supply becomes somewhat critical to the economy in the sense that moving people around, you know, transportation move people around, if the lights go out, you want to make sure you've got maybe a good redundant backup supply, or you have a system that's going to allow for switching the distribution system, and maybe even automated switching switching at some point. So utilities are doing lots of different things. You know, as they as they work to change that ever changing landscape, again, COVID is a great example of that, right? With a lot of people working from home, the utilities are, are working hard to, to make sure that they don't disrupt people that are working from home, regarding the large oil companies. And I think, I believe, I believe we'll see more and more of those organizations getting involved with with Evie charging infrastructure. You know, as you noted, gas stations are everywhere and well suited for fast charging. We see more innovation on how to best use those properties. I think the electrification of vehicles is going to drive many changes in that respect.  Number six. At number six, on my year and wrap up, I sat down with Anne-Raphaelle Audouin, president and CEO of Waterpower Canada, and learned that Canada is the second largest generator of hydro electricity in the world. I wanted to find out what's next for Canada's water power industry.

 

Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin  14:15

When I when I talk to Canadians and also to policymakers. Sometimes they tell me Well, you know, yes, we've got a lot of hydro power in Canada, it's more than 60% of our generation. But surely, because it's so big, we must be tapped out. There must there must not be any more hydro to develop. And then it's it couldn't be further from the truth. We actually have a lot of water. In Canada, we've got good innovation, great sites still to develop. So our untapped potential is actually more than double our existing installed capacity. So we've got about 85,000 megawatt of current installed capacity. So you can you can only imagine what we could do if we were to just develop a portion of the untapped technical potential. And and the great news about that now I always emphasize that when I when I speak at conferences or when I when I, you know, have discussions with government and stakeholders in general is to say that that potential is not just a reality in one province. It's a reality across the country. So when we look at decarbonizing, electrifying, all of those great things that you know are happening are going to happen, you know, over the next few years.

 

Dan Seguin  15:31

Number five, you can't talk about electricity without talking about power outages. I sat down with Joseph Moglia, Director of system operations and grid automation at Hydro Ottawa, to talk about what happens behind the scenes when a storm approaches. And what happens before, during and after Mother Nature strikes. At number five, it's Joseph Moglia.

 

Joseph Muglia  16:01

So really, the very first priority is to send our crews out to assess the damage and figure out really what we're dealing with system wide citywide, get a good idea of really what what infrastructure has been affected. Once we've identified the extent of the damage and any safety concerns to the public or to our workers, we begin the restoration. What most people don't know is that there's an amazing amount of coordination and work that's going on and in our control room during an event just as much as what's going out in the field. So all of the cables and the infrastructure that you see on the ground and, and has been damaged or essentially, you know, dangerous situations that might be out there, they first have to be switched off from our control room so that we can work on the infrastructure safely. So we take the opportunity a few times a year, to really tabletop exercises that will prepare us will help us prepare for incidents or large outages that may that may occur, regardless of what what the the effect might be, whether it's a bad storm, or just a large power outage. And the case of a couple years ago, tornadoes, we prepare for that we're constantly trying to keep our folks up to speed and trained so that we we can seamlessly go from like a blue sky event where we think about what could potentially happen to being involved in the middle of a storm. And usually our staff can can transition from normal day to storm mode quite easily. We're monitoring weather 24 hours a day, every single day of the year. And so when when we see weather approaching, and then once a storm hits, and I'm using a storm as the as an example. Once the storm arrives, we've already been prepped, we've already got folks that are positioned and ready to respond.

 

Dan Seguin  18:09

Number four, where only 5% of electricity workforce is young people compared to 14% across all other sectors, and only 26% is women. I talk to Michelle Branigan, CEO of the electricity, Human Resources Canada to find out what is being done to encourage a more dynamic workforce for the future. At number four, here's a clip of my conversation with Michelle:

 

Michelle Branigan  18:39

women that are working here right now in the sector have have told us that having a support network, having somebody to mentor them, has made the difference on whether they have actually stayed or not. That's made a big difference. You know how hard it is to affect cultural change, right? It takes a long time, but who has to lead that change? The CEO, the leader, the president of the organization, needs to do that. And it's the premise of the Accord that to affect systemic change, you need to have buy in at that senior level, and industry leaders need to have a bold vision. But they need to do more than just talk about it. They need to set the standard for everybody in the organization to follow.

 

Dan Seguin  19:24

Number three. Have you ever smelled a pickle that is being electrocuted? That was the big question I had for Blair Maye, who helped me oversee the electricity safety and conservation program that entertains and educates school aged children across Ontario about electrical safety. At number three, here's a bit of my conversation with Blair and why it's important to teach kids young to be smarter and safer around electricity.

 

Blair Maye  19:58

A lot of electrical accidents. originate with adults, when they don't know what to do around electricity, you know, and it's sad. And that's why we do these presentations. So a couple of the takeaways that I've always remember that teachers and adults have come up to me and said that they really love to hear about. I know I talked a lot about the GFCI, ground fault circuit interrupter. But testing it once a month, is so important. And we want to make sure that from the JK all the way to the grade eight, they're going home and teaching their parents about this. And the teachers love to know that that is such an important thing that can save their lives. Also, the toaster, a lot of people still today will try to put a fork or a spoon inside the toaster. Yeah, and they think that they're, they think that they're ahead of the curve, because they know to unplug it. The one problem is if they damage one of the filaments, those thin, tiny little wires inside the next time they plug it in bang, they end up getting a shock.

 

Dan Seguin  20:53

Number two - if you've been listening to the podcast this year, you'll know I love to talk about the future, and innovation. That's why at number two, I asked, Have you ever dreamed of a day your car can drive itself? The accelerating rate of research and development in automation, and artificial intelligence is indicating that this dream may become a reality very soon. Raed Kadri, the head of the Ontario's autonomous vehicle Innovation Network shares fascinating insight into this world:

 

Raed Kadri  21:33

the number one thing that people are trying to achieve is the promise of, of increased safety as a result of these technologies, if you look at things like a das advanced Driver Assist system systems is is the fact that the vehicle and the sensors are helping, are perceiving something that you may not have perceived. And they're they're warning you and so it's able to help you mitigate, hopefully mitigate mitigate something in advance of it of it occurring. And safety is the key and what the at the high level what everybody's hoping to achieve from all of this, but, but once the technology is there, there's a whole wide range of things that can also be achieved as a secondary piece of this and this is where people looking at it is is is is increased efficiency as productivity is better flow, better understanding of the traffic system, better understanding of, of the of the users of the vehicles in such a way where, you know, of course keeping, you know, security and privacy paramount.

 

Dan Seguin  22:36

Number one, we've come to the last clip of my 12 days of podcasts year end wrap up. And it's fitting that it's about renewable energy, and the realistic strategies for increasing the supply to permanently replace any remaining carbon intensive energy sources in Canada. Here. Brandy Giannetta, Senior Director at the Canadian Renewable Energy Association talks about how the renewable energy industry is primed to enter a new phase of growth, mostly thanks to a culture shift. Here is number one,

 

Brandy Giannetta  23:19

The scalability of our energy production and using Canada and abroad is really a factor there because we can do it at whatever scale needed for whatever system, you know, is being sought. So a consciousness about the environment continues to grow alongside that. So we've got energy policy and economic stimulus, but we also have environmental policy, and the drivers for decarbonisation, and electrification of the sectors that aren't traditionally powered by electricity, like cars and transportation. But a large scale as well as buildings are really increasing the demand for energy solutions that are non emitting affordable, scalable, flexible, and all of those great things. And that's something that obviously our industries can provide. So our vision really, ultimately is to ensure that renewable energy being solar and wind and an energy storage on top of that are playing that central role as we transform the mix so that we can continue to provide those solutions across the board.

 

Dan Seguin  24:11

Well, we've reached the end of another episode and another year of the thick energy podcast. I hope you had fun tuning in. I really do. It's at this point in the program. I usually ask my guests some rapid fire questions. I never answered them myself. So I thought I'd do it now. I hope you enjoy this.  What is your favorite word? Well, for me, I would have to say it's okie dokie.  What is the one thing you can't live without? Actually, that's a tough one. It's a toss up between peanut butter and chocolate.  What habit or hobby Have you picked up during shelter in place? I would have to say my wife and I purchased ebikes and we've taken up biking If you could have one superpower. What would it be? Well, for me, it would be immortality.  If you could turn back time and talk to your 18 year old self, what would you tell them? Actually, that's a pretty cool one: Never forget that everything comes at a price. So work hard and stay humble and pay it forward. And for the last one, what do I currently find most interesting in my sector? Well, I think for me, it's the rise of voice technology, and artificial intelligence, and how it's going to change businesses. 2020 has certainly been interesting. Special thanks to all of my guests who took the time this year during a global pandemic, to come on the show and share their expertise, passion, and knowledge with me. For now, Happy Holidays, and Happy New Year! See you all in 2021 as we discuss even more thought provoking topics in the energy sector. Ciao everybody.

2020 has been a challenge and a half – for individuals, families, businesses, and more. In this episode, we look at the impact of COVID-19 on Hydro Ottawa’s operations, employees and customers.  Bryce Conrad, President and CEO of Hydro Ottawa, shares the lessons that he learned while leading in these uncertain times as well as the importance of fostering resilience and flexibility in all areas of a business. He also sheds light on most pressing concerns facing utility companies upon entering the first winter of this pandemic.

Related Content & Links:

• Website: https://hydroottawa.com/
• Twitter: @hydroottawa

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Transcript:

Dan Seguin  00:42

Hey, everyone, welcome back. This is the ThinkEnergy podcast. While the energy sector has weathered floods, ice storms and tornadoes. The COVID-19 pandemic is a crisis unlike anything a utility company has experienced before. It's safe to say that nearly every industry has had their business models, service offerings, and bottom line impacted by COVID-19. While no business or industry is immune, there's no denying that safe and reliable power for hospitals, businesses and homes is just as if not more important than ever. That in turn has shone a light on how essential local utility companies really are. While a lot of us are working remotely, the reality is that there are some jobs that can't be done from home. As an essential service. Utility field workers continue to work out in communities on critical projects to ensure grid stability, and respond to power outages to make sure the power is there when you need it. So how has the pandemic tested utility emergency response and business continuity plans and what new energy usage patterns are emerging? With energy demand, decreasing for industrial and commercial customers, and increasing for residential customers, overall, there has been a reduction of total electricity demand by approximately 10 to 30%. Across the industry. There's no denying that this shift is having an impact on our energy habits and our collective environmental footprint. So here's today's big question. What are the most pressing concerns facing utility companies as we enter our first winter of this pandemic. To shed some light on some of their offer one and one for all collaborative approach, I've invited Bryce Conrad, who has been serving as president and chief executive officer of Hydro Ottawa since 2011.  Bryce: first, what is something you've learned about yourself during COVID? And how is the team doing overall at Hydro Ottawa as we enter the first winter of the pandemic?

 

Bryce Conrad  03:35

That's great question. So what have I learned about myself? I guess the surprising part was just how much of a social butterfly I seem to be, you know, this pandemic, where you're sort of forced into your house, and you're forced into these small bubbles. You know, intuitively at the start, I thought, this is kind of great, no one to bug me, I can do my thing. But after about two weeks, I was going a little stir crazy. So you really, you really miss the social interaction you get, you know, whether it be in the office or, you know, with your colleagues across the country. So that part was a bit surprising. In terms of the team. Look, you know, I don't think people understand how good our team actually is. You know, we started tracking this pandemic, back in January, I remember having the initial conversation with Bruce and Lynn and, you know, they're saying this thing is, you know, we're hearing about this and we, you know, maybe we should send it back to in our business continuity plan, and I thought, Well, okay, I mean, at that point in time, it was still something off in a far off remote place and pretty far away from Ottawa. So we activated the pandemic plan, our business continuity plan, specifically the pandemic plan. Kind of mid-January. Whereas with kind of a kind of a watch and see kind of approach, and you know, followed it and tracked it and you know, as the situation worsened, then you saw it starting to come across, you know, we started to make some decisions with respect to travel and started to curtail expenditures and limiting this and that. And then when it became obvious in February, I remember having a conversation with the executive team saying, you know, we need to get ready to shut this place down. You know, the good news is we had the plan, the plan was good. And we executed on the plan so that when we made the final decision to sort of send people home, to work from home. You know, there was no, there was no panic by any stretch of the imagination, it was, it was pretty matter of fact, and, quite frankly, the team was set up and ready to go. So we can effectively throw the switch the next day, which is what we did so. So the short answer. The question is, is the team's done exceptionally well, given the circumstances. I think it's been a tough time for people, a lot of anxiety, a lot of stress, a lot of uncertainty. But generally speaking, I think they've responded very well.

 

Dan Seguin  06:16

Hydro Ottawa has weathered ice storms, tornadoes, floods, these past years alone. What is something you've learned about the resiliency of utility companies? And how has the pandemic tested your emergency response and business continuity plan?

 

06:37

You know, what you what you've learned about utility companies is just that. It's just how resilient they actually are. Our ability to sort of keep on going. I feel like the US Postal Service's right, through snow and sleet and rain, you know, they keep doing their job. So yeah, that's it. I mean, the question is just how resilient the company has been how resilient company utility companies are. I mean, I have the privilege of sitting on these kind of, at the time, they were weekly calls across the country with all the CEOs of utilities through the Canadian Electricity Association. And, you know, it was comforting on the one hand to know that we were all dealing with this stuff together. Even more comforting to realize that we're probably further ahead of the game than most of our most of our peers. When we did our strategic direction back in, you know, four or five years ago now, one of the key elements was that we would, we should expect disruption in the business and disruption in the industry. And I won't pretend to be clairvoyant to say that I saw a pandemic coming at the time, but I certainly expected disruption. You know, the idea that we didn't want to be the taxicab industry when Uber arrived, we didn't want to be Blockbuster Video when Netflix arrived. So we wanted to be prepared. So you know, everything we've done over the past five years is been to sort of embrace that concept of disruption, prepare for it, whatever that took, whatever that meant. And as you saw when we moved to our new facilities, you know, we got rid of the big desktop computers we had, everyone has a laptop. So when we threw the switch and told people to work at home starting the next day, you know, Our IT people weren't out at BestBuy trying to buy, you know, 400 laptop computers, everyone was ready. And it was just a question of throwing the switch. So yeah, I think we're, I think we responded well, you know, in the course of my 10 years of the company, we've had tornadoes, we've had one in 100 year floods, we have more than 1000 year floods, we've now had a pandemic, I fully expect to look out the window and see the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse coming down. I mean, we're missing locusts. But that's about all we're missing at this point in time. So this has tested our plans, it has tested the strength of the company, and I think quite frankly, the company's done well through it. And, again, our plans, our plans, you put these plans in place, hoping you never have to implement them. But if need be, the plan is there and we executed to the plan and I think there's not a there's not a single thing that I would have done differently in hindsight. So I think I think the plan is stood the test of time. Good, good. Now,

 

Dan Seguin  09:41

Are you able to expand on how Hydro Ottawa is helping customers that are struggling? What do you think has been Hydro Ottawa's key role thus far in providing its customers with solutions for those who need that extra help?

 

Bryce Conrad  10:02

Yeah, you know, it's a great question, Dan. And obviously, living in Ottawa with the mix of customers that we have. And obviously a very large public sector footprint, whether it be the Government of Canada or the universities or the hospitals, I mean, we have a large public sector footprint and that public sector has been incredibly resilient during this time, you haven't seen layoffs or you haven't seen, you know, mass disruptions as a result, unlike some of my peers across the country who are dealing with, you know, 40 and 50% default rates and stuff like that. We haven't seen that in Ottawa, largely because of the mix that we have. But I do think that overshadows some of the real challenges. If you look at your local small businesses here in Ottawa, if you look the hair salons, the restaurants, the local bookstores, the local, retail establishments, those places, all have all just been hammered. And they've had to make really hard decisions. In some cases, we've seen people paying their hydro bill, so many small businesses paying their hydro bill on their credit card, because it didn't want to get cut off. I mean, just gut-wrenching stories like that, which, which, obviously, it's an obvious consequence of the downturn/the pandemic. So what, you know, what, what can we do, what have we done? I mean, the short answer is we're doing everything we can. We want to be supportive, the direction I've given is to bend over backwards to do whatever we can to help these people and these customers, and specifically small businesses. But at the end of the day, we also have to be responsible, and part of that responsibility is making sure that we're not socializing bad debts. So just because a restaurant or businesses going out of business, and not paying their bill, it's not fair to take that that their debt and put it onto the backs of people who are paying their bills. So it's achieving that balance, but specifically that we've allowed customers to enter into payment plans that are longer than we otherwise would have normally seen. We're allowing businesses up to 12 months to get their accounts back into good standing. You know, we've worked with the various provincial associations, and we've worked with the government. And I've spoken to the Minister a number of times since the pandemic took hold and we've been front and center and supporting a number of their initiatives, including, you know, extending the disconnection ban so that no one was getting cut off. You know, through to the end of July. We were actively promoting the idea of, you know, time of use pricing makes a lot of sense when businesses is businesses and businesses good. But when everybody is forced to start to work at home, you know, penalizing people, by making them pay higher rates during the day, didn't make a lot of sense. And so we're pleased to see the government move there and adopt these COVID rates. And more importantly, recently, they've come up with these COVID funds for both small businesses and residential customers. So we've been actively pushing and promoting those, getting them out to help people so that they don't have to, you know, use their credit card to pay their hydro bill. And our answer is always the same, it's been the same from day one and it is, "look, if you're struggling, we understand it," we mean, we're not we're not oblivious to the effects of the pandemic, we just need you to reach out and talk to us and see what we can do to help you and we have a number of tools that are in our toolbox that that we can bring to bear and help you out. So if anyone's listening to this and they're struggling, just please reach out by all means and we can see what we can do for you.

 

Dan Seguin  13:55

We all know that the world has definitely changed. From safeguarding, to stabilizing operations, liquidity people and supply chains, within Hydro Ottawa, did the pandemic accelerate momentum towards new ways of working automation or digitization?

 

Bryce Conrad  14:18

I think the answer is yes and no, you know. As you know, when we went, you know, as normal process in the company, it's a big company. And when we launch new digital tools, or software, we tend to sort of do soft launches, and then, you follow up with a lot of training, and then, you know, eventually we sort of take the training wheels off, and we let people use the technology. You know, we didn't have that opportunity in this case. And so, you know, we, when we went virtual, we went real virtual, so we implemented the Google suite of products and, you know, that's something that we normally would have done over a matter of three or four months and, you know, effectively in this case, we just threw the switch and said, you know, figure it out on your own, and here's some online tools to help you. So those tools were great, and they've been fantastic. And they've allowed us to work anywhere and everywhere, at any time and to work effectively. So I think that's, that's been great, you know, we did some things that we never thought we would have had to have done before, I think specifically of, you know, the Rate Application process, which is a huge undertaking, of company undertaking. And sort of, you know, you launch this thing as massive effort. And, you know, we were on the 20 yard line kind of thing and heading in and, you know, the pandemic hit, and, you know, by use of these tools and technologies, we were able to sort of get it across the goal line, and, you know, working with the Ontario Energy Board, who was incredibly responsive, I got to give him credit. You know, we did the first ever virtual rate hearings, you know, are these quasi-judicial processes were done over Zoom or using these technologies. So, you know, full credit to the team full credit to the OEB and the interveners, for, for working with us to sort of make that possible. So I mean, that's an example where I thought the tools are great. But if I'm being honest with you, it's also highlighted a pretty profound area of weakness. I see this day in and day out. I mean, these digital tools are great for transaction oriented decisions, you know, meetings become focused around a transaction or multiple transactions. But when you really want to do some sort of blue sky thinking, you want to think about strategy and sort of bring together and do the collaboration and the heart, the heart, outside the box, thinking around collaboration and trying to move things forward, at the highest level that is not easily done by these tools. It just, you know, three hour strategy session on a zoom call is akin to a day in Guantanamo Bay, it's just not something anybody ever wants. And it's just not conducive to a positive outcome. So I think that's an area where, notwithstanding how effective these tools have been, it's just nothing will replace that face to face kind of conversation that we've grown used to. And then the other thing is, is, and I'm a huge proponent of technology. On the scale of adoption, I'm going to be the early adopter, I'm going to make sure I've got the iPhone 12 before anybody else does, right. Technology doesn't change bad habits, it doesn't make up for bad decision making. And it certainly doesn't make bad managers, great leaders. And I think there's got to be some sense that these tools are or that they're tools, they're not replacing the judgment, they're not replacing the leadership. If anything, if we use them properly, they can help accentuate it. But I've seen instances where people just assume because we're doing it on zoom, that they can be different, different kinds of leaders kind of thing and it just doesn't work.

 

Dan Seguin  18:25

Hydro Ottawa has instilled a culture of safety among its field and operation workforce. frontline workers are juggling their professional obligations, alongside unusual family and childcare responsibilities on an extended basis without and end date on the horizon. How is your company supporting those employees and guarding against a distracted workforce to ensure safety on the job?

 

Bryce Conrad  19:00

I wish I had a better answer for this one, to be honest with you. I mean, the safety culture is it's part of the DNA of Hydro Ottawa. So that part I've never, you know, I think my crew, our outside crews, the technical staff, I think they're doing I think they're doing a great job. And I think they're managing. They're doing everything while respecting the public health guidelines. But the short answer is: It's a balance for us, right? You know, I tell staff all the time, you know, the ratepayers of Ottawa. They expect seven and a half hours a day at work of each and every employee and you get paid every two weeks for that work. If you have a toddler at home, or it's almost impossible to sort of find a way to do that. So, I mean, I have teenage kids at home and with my wife working remotely and them doing school online or whatever they're doing these days, I need to come back to work to the office just to get decent Wi Fi and bandwidth. I mean, I just don't think we're as productive at home as we otherwise like to think we are and or hope we are. But even now, with the prospect of vaccination in the future, I mean, we're still months away. And if you look at these numbers, if you look at the numbers attached to the second wave, this thing is going to still hit pretty hard. I mean, I saw this morning in the US that, you know, there's, there's a death every 30 seconds, unfortunately, we seem to be a whole lot more intelligent than or behaving a little bit more intelligently than they are. But look, we have safe, secure processes in place. My view is if you can go to a gym or a restaurant, and you can come to work. And I think Dr. Etches said it best in her last recent appearances before the city council that we just need to learn to live with this virus, and part of living is coming to work. So I think we've struck the right balance between safety and security and helping people. But I don't underestimate how difficult it's been for people. And you have to remember, this pandemic struck just on the tail end of the teacher strike. So a lot of families were dealing with that before this even started. So it's been a haul, I think we can all agree that 2020 sucks.

 

Dan Seguin  21:40

I agree, Bryce. These are unprecedented times peppered with operational challenges. This pandemic has delayed many operations and maintenance and capital projects. What are those challenges? And how are you adapting?

 

Bryce Conrad  22:02

Yeah, you know, there's oddly enough. My colleague, Toronto Hydro is the first to sort of point this out. And I didn't realize this is one of those things I didn't think about, but in some cases, the capital work has actually been able to accelerate. And if you think about it, in Toronto, that mean, there's dramatically less traffic on the roads are, they're able to sort of get from point A to point B, that much faster. Here in Ottawa, same concept, where our crews are able to move from one end of the city to the next relatively expeditiously. Moreover, they're able to get the necessary permits to do the work that they need to do probably a little easier and faster than they otherwise would, because there's so there's fewer cars on the road, less commuting. But sure, there are challenges, I mean, the crews need to work safely, so they have to adhere to the public safety guidelines, you know. So what does that mean? We put one person in a truck, whereas there used to be two or three. So you can appreciate that adds cost adds complexity, and that adds time to a project. But, you know, that's just the way we have to work. The other part of the challenge is, is quite frankly, and from the customer side of the equation is, you know, with everybody working from home. Well, even before people work from home, doing planned work, and taking an outage, to sort of fix a piece of equipment. There was never, there's never a good time to do that, you know, he would sort of plan for doing it between 2 and 4am in the morning. And you know, of course, there'll be complaints the next day, because you did something between 2 and 4am. So, you know, take that now and say, Okay, well, I now have with everyone now working at home, when is the right time to take a planned outage? So, you know, people are their livelihoods are depending on their ability to access their computers and Wi Fi. So it just it makes it that much more complicated, I guess. And so, our answers, we're only taking outages in those very, very few and infrequent instances where we absolutely have to, because we recognize that the adverse impact is going to have on our customers but so we're adapting I think that's probably the best the best sense of the word.

 

Dan Seguin  24:33

Would you say that operating models have or will change with more remote working and more flexible structure? What does the future workplace look like to you?

 

Bryce Conrad  24:48

Yeah, this one, man, damn this is this is a heavy question this there's a lot packed in here. So let me just state categorically. I do believe we will see way, we'll see a change in the way we work. But I think the changes in the transitional actually be more aggressive than what people are counting on, people are thinking, well, I'll just spend more time working from home. And my answer is, maybe, but I think this is going to accelerate some other tectonic plates in society that will likely have an even more profound impact on the way we work than just simply saying, we're going to work from home. I mean, look, this pandemic has shown that we can work remotely notwithstanding the fact that I would take issue with anyone, well, not anyone, but I would take issue with people that say they're more productive working from home than they're in the office, I just, I don't see the collaboration, I don't see the creativity that I would otherwise see in the office, I don't see that at home, when you're working at home or communicating by these tools, as I referenced earlier. But look, I think the tectonic plates that I'm talking about and going forward in the future, I think are big things like artificial intelligence and machine learning, and, you know, robotics and stuff like that. And I think those are probably, quite frankly, going to, we're going to come out of this pandemic, and those tectonic plates that were that are moving are going to move even faster because of the pandemic, because people will see that, okay, this has happened, I need to, I need to sort of strengthen my operations. And here's a quick way of doing it. And you just have to look at sort of robotics as an example, you know, robots don't take a day off. So they don't get they don't get affected by COVID. So you know, if you can robotize, your operations, if you can afford to do it, you're going to try to do it. And, and there's good and there's bad, and there's some really profoundly ugly aspects of that, right. And if you think about, you think about the good, right. So you think about sort of, you know, just healthcare in general, and sort of the idea that, you know, we've all been to doctors and hospitals, where you sort of stand there and they look at those charts. And you wonder, surely to God, there's more efficient way of tracking people's health and then by paper charts. So you can imagine sort of surgical interventions via robots, you can use sensors on your body telling you, you know, when you're going to have a heart attack, and you know, measuring your circadian rhythm and precluding that heart attack from happening, those are the good things in the world of electronic health and all that sort of stuff. Just it's fascinating to think about the upsides. The downsides is I mean, it's also quite obvious if you've been to a McDonald's recently, the first thing you see when you walk in, is a kiosk, a display where you can sort of order you know, order your own food and pay right there. Well, that's replaced the job. And that's replaced a 16 year old kid whose first job it was to take an order at McDonald's. So you think okay, well, those aren't great jobs anyway, right. But you look at a company like mindbridge AI, here in Canada, which is a company that effectively found a way to do machine learning around audits. You know, I've been here for 10 years and done audits, every year of all of our companies, every audit that we do largely is based on a sample, just the nature of you take a sample of those transactions, and you audit them to make sure that they're all done properly. Well, this machine, this mindbridge technology, they don't take samples, they audit each and every transaction, and they can do it like in a matter of minutes. And they're able to find errors that an auditor would never be able to find. So you think about that as what is the future hold for auditing if you're doing all this stuff via machine learning and automated AI. And then the truly terrifying aspect of it, and I tell my board this on a regular basis is when you start to think about what the impact of those technologies are, if you can weaponize them. And in cybersecurity is an obvious place like, you know, when we do our tests and penetration tests and all that good stuff to make sure our system is robust and reliable, which it is, you know, it's all done, kind of under the polite rules of society. But if you're able to sort of weaponize AI and machine learning, they're just going to it's, it just takes it to a new threat level, which, which is truly, truly terrifying. And I don't want to sound like you know, Terminator one here kind of thing, but you know, it's a scary future if you think about it that way.

 

Dan Seguin  30:00

Even in the midst of a pandemic, not everything can be done virtually at essential businesses. How do you create back to office plans that leverage best practices, minimize risk to your employees and maintain continuity of operations? And do all of that while focusing on what's mission critical?

 

Bryce Conrad  30:27

Yeah, well, I mean, the short answer is you start with the science and you follow the public health and you adhere to public health guidelines. So we're obviously an essential workforce, we do essential work in the city of Ottawa. And yeah, we we've, our plan has been constantly tailored in reflecting the best advice that we get from public health. So you know, we've had probably over 200 employees tested for covid now, and we've had one positive, and that one positive is directly related to a social interaction that happened on a weekend outside of the office. So, you know, we take a bit of solace in the fact that our protocols are working and they're keeping people safe. So, you know, that's the in itself is a short answer. But I mean, I'd prefer also these calls that we're having on a weekly basis with some of my peers across the country. You know, we're all struggling with the same concept of how to get people back to work in a responsible and safe way. You know, the blue team/orange team that we've come up with here is not it's not novel. Some of my peers OPG, they've been doing that as well, where they've brought back half their staff one week, they work from home the next week, I think they're bringing in shifts that's what we've effectively done here. And it's worked, as I said, some of our some of our more mission critical functions, if you think of the system office, you know, we've taken an even more deliberate and more protective stance around them, I mean, they have to come to work, you can't run the system from your from home. So you know, we've effectively created two system offices a backup one we always had two, but you know, we've staffing to now for the sake of ensuring that we can always if there's an outbreak in one, we can still run the system from the other. And quite frankly, we toyed with the idea of a third where, you know, if we were to have employees who were asymptomatic, but still positive for COVID. And they felt in, they could still come to work, we would create, quote, unquote, a dirty system office, where they could come to work and do their job. And as long as they're asymptomatic and weren't feeling the ill effects associated with it and still do the job, we would potentially look at creating a third one that we haven't had to go that far. But those are some of the practices that some of my peers have put in place across the country and some of the lessons that we've learned from them. But again, in some cases, we've carved our own a lot of cases, we've carved our own way forward. And I give full credit to the team, to the HR team for doing that in facilities, they done things that I never thought of, you know, they've thought of come up with plans. And, and again, you know, the fact that we've, you know, knock on wood, haven't had a COVID positive case in the office is a testament to them, and that, that work that they've done.

 

Dan Seguin  33:35

I'd love to hear your thoughts on how the lockdowns and social distancing measures have triggered a historic decline in emissions while increasing public appreciation for improved climate conditions. Where do you think we're headed as an industry?

 

Bryce Conrad  33:55

Yeah, it's truly fascinating. And I'm sure you've seen the photo of the canals in Venice before and after the pandemic, before it was looked like a kind of a brown cesspool of garbage. And afterwards, it looks like this crystal blue thing that you would only see in the, the Venetian in Las Vegas, you know, if you can see the bottom of the water kind of thing. So it's pretty amazing. So, you know, look, if I'm being honest, I think the pandemic is going to be nothing compared to the eventual impact of climate change, right? Climate change is the single existential threat that we need to deal with next, and here not well, we've seen the impacts of climate change on an annual basis. Again, I just, let's talk about the last three years. We had a one in 100 year flood, a one in 1000 year flood and we had six tornadoes, touchdown. I mean, you know, you can argue that, you know, these are just kind of normal cyclical weather patterns, but the evidence is not there. I mean, these things just don't. Stats don't lie that way. So where do I think we're headed as an industry? I think, look, I think we're going to be at the forefront of dealing with climate change as a as a threat, I think you see OPG, which obviously full credit to them, but they just came out the other day saying that they would be carbon neutral in their operations by 2040. Or maybe even sooner I have read that was 2040. But maybe an earlier. The city of Ottawa has committed to being carbon neutral by 2050. So I think, you know, as utility, we obviously play a pretty key role in supporting that agenda. And you know, if anything, this, this pandemic is, is kind of has truly heightened people's appreciation for the little things that can be done that have big impacts. So, you know, I expect when we do get back to work, whenever that looks like, I fully expect the federal government is going to adopt a kind of a more lenient approach to working from home, if nothing else, I can't imagine those office buildings in downtown Ottawa are going to be filled up the day after a vaccine is released, I think they're going to, quite frankly, will start to encourage people to work from home as a means of sort of controlling their carbon footprint. So I think you'll see public transit, continue to develop and grow. And I think we're seeing with the electrification of public transit here in Ottawa. That's a trend that's going to continue as well. So I think if nothing, if nothing good comes out of this pandemic, other than an appreciation for our collective impact on the environment. I think that that in itself is not a bad thing.

 

Dan Seguin  37:03

Okay, with people staying home and running home offices. Have we seen a shift in the distribution of where electricity is being used thinking of residential neighborhoods, and a leveling of peak hours? Is the curve expected to flatten as each household distributes the usage more evenly? How will this impact the grid as a whole?

 

Bryce Conrad  37:33

Well, the last I mean, the last part of the question is that it won't impact the grid, because the grid is built for peak. So you know, at least hopefully it won't impact the grid. But and I should also preface by saying I'm not an engineer. So you know, I just play one on TV from time to time. But look, the curve has flattened, obviously, as more and more people work from home. But I don't believe there's any real impact on the grid. Although you are seeing the load shift. I mean, you think about downtown Ottawa when those office buildings are full, you know, take a good hot day in July, when the air conditioning is running at a good pace. I mean, that those are those are those buildings are big loads, and they're full of people. You take that load away, and you distribute it back away from the downtown substations and out into the barrhavens and Kanata and Orleans and other parts. So I think you're seeing a dispersion of the load across the city. But the good news is that the grid is built to accommodate that, obviously, and we haven't seen any deleterious effects associated with that. So I think we'll be fine. The grid will be fine. I do expect, you know, at some point, we're going to have to figure out what to do with those downtown buildings, you know, you think of like a place de ville tower, which has got 29 floors? And what 12 elevators. You know, are you going to see a maximum occupancy in there, again, you're going to see another 2000 employees back there, you know, sort of lining up to go in the elevator every morning, and then what every afternoon, I just don't think that's going to happen. So I think this load transfer maybe, well, not permanent, I think it will be more. I don't think you'll see a return to normal, quote unquote, normal. When the when people go back, if they go back.

 

Dan Seguin  39:52

Okay, I think you've answered this next one. But some folks may not know that Hydro Ottawa generates about 128 megawatts. Renewable power? How are changing load patterns impacting / or will they impact the generation output?

 

Bryce Conrad  40:10

Yeah, no, the short answer is no, there's no real impact on the output. Our facilities, which we're incredibly proud of, both here in Ottawa, in Eastern Ontario, down through Kingston, and quite frankly, in upstate New York. So all the entire fleet of generating assets are working well. And they're contracted. So you know, the power is effectively sold back into the grid. Whether the power is being used in the grid is, you know, it's another story, but the, there's no real impact on our generating assets. Other than, you know, the employees that run those assets have had to take the same precautions as every other employee has.

 

Dan Seguin  40:59

Okay. Some of the key and unexpected outcomes of this pandemic are the various costs that are being incurred by utilities, including collection shortfalls, continuing service to customers unable to pay, and increased operational burdens from managing a distributed workforce. All the while providing uninterrupted service during the period of significant constraints. Looking at the post pandemic horizon, what are some of the business lessons you've learned?

 

Bryce Conrad  41:39

Yeah, I mean, look, I mean, the business lessons. I don't know that there's been a lot of business lessons as much as I've just learned some lessons from this. And the first one I've been saying from day one, which is, you know, this pandemic has been incredibly humbling. You know, as a CEO of a company, you kind of wake up every morning, knowing which way you're going and what you're trying to do. And this thing is just kind of taking you sideways. Like on any given day, you know, you're trying to respond to the public health concerns, you're trying to address your employees, you know, the issues your employees are bringing up and, and sometimes you just don't have a good answer. And that's kind of a, as a CEO, that's not a place you like to be very often because we like to think of ourselves as being all known and omnipresent, and all that other crap. So it has been a humbling experience. What I will say is, is it's taught me It taught us as a company to be flexible, and responsive. You know, we had an incredible pandemic plan that was built, I think, for the avian flu, which was, what 10 years ago, you know, eight years ago. So you have this plan, and then you have to sort of change it to reflect the new pandemic. And the good news is we had the plan to work through and we were able to adapt this plan to reflect the day to day and on the on the ground realities. We're able to execute to it so. But that flexibility was paramount, particularly earlier on as you're trying to figure this thing out. And you know, we all spent far too much time watching TV and listening to the doomsayers in the media who are predicting, you know, the end of civilization as we know it. Some of that's kind of terrifying, but at the same time, you'll learn to block some of that crap out. So that was, that was a lesson learned. Another lesson we learned was that leadership matters. Look, I've taken decisions as part of this whole pandemic, which have not won me a lot of friends. You know, I don't apologize for those decisions. I think there are the right decisions. But that's what I get paid to do. You know, I'm the CEO of the company, and they pay me to sort of make those decisions. Conversely, as I've seen, these decisions and other decisions that get made cascade through the organization, you know, you can you can see who the leaders of the organization are. And that's both rewarding and fulfilling, but also sometimes it's a bit disappointing when you see people that you expect to step up and do something and they don't, for whatever reason, and sometimes there are good reasons why they don't so I shouldn't it's not criticism as much as it's a statement or an observation. third, or fourth, where I am communication, I mean, the old adage that you can never over communicate is so very, very true -communication with staff stakeholders with your customers. As we've gone through this pandemic, we have tried our very best to sort of communicate with everybody, as often as possible. If I just take staff as an example, you know, when we made the decision to sort of bring staff back sort of end of July, on the in the blue team / orange team kind of rotational piece, you know, we write open and said, just send it if you've got questions or concerns, send them to us. And we'll answer your questions. And we post those questions. And we posted those answers. And after about 50 questions, you realize that they're asking the same question, they're just asking it in a different way. And that's not coming from a place of malice, it's actually coming from a place of anxiety, they're trying to understand why the decision has been made. And, and so you know, we just kept answering the question, and we kept you kept giving them the same answer. And I think that helped. I mean, don't get me wrong, I think there are still employees that were terrified, coming back to the office. And hopefully, they've since learned that the office is not a bad place to be, it's actually quite safe. But yeah, that level of communication and same with our customers. And, you know, the frustration for me is that is our customers who may or may not be struggling with COVID, with as a result of the pandemic to pay their bills. You know, all I really all you really want them to do is to reach out and call us and talk to us. And if they do, then we can put them into a plan or a process that allows him to sort of manage those bills. Because again, the worst thing in the world for me is to see somebody paying their credit card using the credit card as opposed to us putting them on a payment plan. So it's just that constant communication. And then the last one, which last lesson I've learned, and I think we will collectively learn is that as much as this pandemic has been about physical health and the physical well-being of people and employees and the citizens of Ottawa, it's the mental health aspect, that's going to be the lingering legacy of this thing. I just don't think we have a handle on what the mental health impacts will be. When we get back to if we get back to what the new normal looks like, you know, forcing kids to separate from their friends, forcing families apart during the holidays, those are sorts of things that are just really difficult to imagine from a mental health perspective. And I think, you know, full credit to the Royal in the team they have, but I think they're going to be busy going forward.

 

Dan Seguin  47:55

Yeah, it's going to leave a mark for sure. How is your utility working to tightly manage capital and operating expenses? In this new rate sensitive and revenue challenged world? And post pandemic, as the economy begins to revitalize, are you expecting a need to address a backlog of critical activities and capital investment projects?

 

Bryce Conrad  48:25

So let me answer the second part of the question first. So the short answer is I don't expect that there'll be much of a backlog when we get back to sort of the full spender the burn rate, I think we've credited the operations team, they've done an amazing job of, you know, they took a couple weeks to figure out how to do the business safely and efficiently when the pandemic struck. And but man, they've been burning, they've been going full steam since then. So I give them full credit. So I don't expect a backlog per se. You know, if you look, if you listen to the Government of Canada, and the most recent economic statement, there seems to be a fairly significant amount of stimulus funding on them coming forward, I think in the next couple years, so I actually expect will be probably busier than ever, because, you know, every time you resurface a road or do something to a road or a transit system, I mean, you're talking about there's an impact on us as the as utility, so we're involved. So I expect will be busier than ever. But going back to the first part, you know, the rate sensitive and revenue challenged, which I think is absolutely true. And again, I'm not you know, hindsight is 2020 and I'm not looking for anybody to sort of throw flowers our way but, you know, we kind of saw the rate sensitivity. We've been watching it for like 10 years, right people have been frustrated by the rates in Ontario. And, you know, the inability to control those rates and have to affect the hydro rates of electricity rates have been a bit of a black box, I mean, they just not something you have line of sight to or control over in any real meaningful way. So we always saw the threat of kind of this rates sensitivity and revenue challenging. And we decided early on, to diversify our revenues away from the rate, the rate regulated assets. So yes, Hydro Ottawa limited is still a very large company in a very good company, and one that generates significant revenues. But we also made decisions to sort of expand and, and double down on our generating fleet. So we've taken our generating assets, and we've grown them by over 500%, in the past six years. Now, we didn't do that simply because we want to be good corporate citizens and be the largest custodian of green energy. We just want to own green energy projects in Canada, we want we did that because there was these assets are also quite lucrative. So, you know, as we got away from, you know, if you look at our balance sheet today, our balance sheet today is probably, you know, 75% regulated and 25%, unregulated. And if I go back, you know, years ago, it was probably 95/5. So by diversifying our revenues away from the regulated assets, we were able to sort of help manage some of that rate sensitivity and still demonstrate to the citizens of Ottawa who owned the company that we are a solid investment in a well-run company. So I think that's your answer, Dan.

 

Dan Seguin  51:47

Okay, Bryce, are you ready to close us off with some rapid fire questions?

 

Bryce Conrad  51:54

Yeah.

 

Dan Seguin  51:55

Okay. What is your favorite word?

 

Bryce Conrad  51:58

Right now? Joe Biden.

 

Dan Seguin  52:02

Okay. What is the one thing you can't live without?

 

Bryce Conrad  52:08

My family

 

Dan Seguin  52:10

What habit or hobby? Have you picked up during the shelter in place?

 

Bryce Conrad  52:15

Always been a big reader, but I forced myself to read at least an hour a day. So I trying to read 100 books this year. So I'm close. If anyone's interested, I've got some suggestions for you.

 

Dan Seguin  52:29

If you could have one superpower, what would it be?

 

Bryce Conrad  52:35

Either time travel or invisibility. One or the other? Time travel, so I could sort of be a better day trader. Okay, make some more money, invisibility, for obvious reasons.

 

Dan Seguin  52:49

Okay. If you could turn back time and talk to your 18 year old self? What would you tell them?

 

Bryce Conrad  52:57

Put the beer down and study harder.

 

Dan Seguin  52:59

Okay. And lastly, what do you currently find most interesting in your sector?

 

Bryce Conrad  53:05

You know, the energy industry as a general rule, and the utility sector specifically is just a constant. It's constantly changing. And you cannot be bored running a utility in Ontario. It's just not possible. And if you are, you're just crazy. So I think as you look forward, and I talked about earlier, you know, climate change and the impacts of climate change will have I think, as with a lot of things in life in society, the solutions to that are going to come at the local level. And you know, Hydro Ottawa, we're absolutely going to be at the heart of those efforts going forward. And I think it's just a fascinating blank canvas at the moment that I can't wait to be part of.

 

Dan Seguin  54:01

So cool, Bryce. Listen, we've reached the end of another episode of think energy podcast. Again, thank you so much for joining me today. I hope you had a lot of fun.

 

Bryce Conrad  54:10

Thanks, Dan. Appreciate it!

 

Dan Seguin  54:12

Thanks. Thank you for joining us today. I truly hope you enjoyed this episode of ThinkEnergy podcasts. For past episodes. Make sure you visit our website hydroottawa.com/podcast. Lastly, if you found value in this podcast, be sure to subscribe. Anyway, this podcast is a wrap. Cheers, everyone.

Diversity and inclusion are key drivers of innovation and success in the workplace. So, in such an innovative field like renewable energy, how can the industry attract talent? Joanna Osawe, President & CEO of Women in Renewable Energy (WIRE) shares the mission behind her organization as well as what WIRE is doing to support women seeking education and employment in the renewable energy sector.

• Related Content & Links: www.womeninrenewableenergy.ca WiRE Report: Navigating COVID19 & The Future of Energy: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/524b6ff3e4b030f838029610/t/5f733e81a472ac56517dc033/1601388165792/FutureofEnergy_Report_WiRE.pdf
• Follow WiRE on www.Twitter/WiRE_Canada www.linkedin.com/company/women-in-renewable-energy-wire www.instagram.com/wire_canada/ https://www.facebook.com/WomenInRE

 

Transcript:

Dan Seguin  00:02

Hey, everyone, welcome back. This is the ThinkEnergy podcast. RESPECT, nine to five, I will survive. Besides being some of my fave tunes, there's a reason why I'm mentioning these female empowerment songs today. Why are people always surprised to find out that I'm a Gloria Gaynor and Aretha Franklin fan? the renewable energy sector is growing. And the jobs are, to say the least exciting and interesting from wind turbine and solar technicians to a wide cross section of other technical and professional engineers and geotechnical careers. Canada's renewable energy industry is accelerating. And there's a lot of quality careers emerging, particularly in STEM. That's the field of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics. According to the Canadian Renewable Energy Association, there are currently more than 300,000 people employed in Canada's clean energy sector. And it's continuing to grow by 5% a year. So if projections are correct, there will be more than half a million Canadians employed in the clean energy sector by 2031 side that isn't moving as fast, however, is the number of women filling these key roles. Right now. The renewable energy industry employs about 32% of women, but most are in administrative positions. We know that the energy sector remains one of the least gender diverse industries, with women making up only 22% of the workers overall. We also know that gender diverse workplaces thrive, and are more innovative and financially successful. So in such an innovative field, like renewable energy, how can the industry attract talent? Well, some barriers that women faced as identified by electricity, Human Resources Canada include discrimination, a lack of mentorship, and a non inclusive workplace culture. In order to power the future, and the country's renewable energy projects, these systemic barriers need to be addressed. And it can't come fast enough. With half of the experienced engineering workforce retiring in the next decade, there's a skill shortage on the horizon, but also a huge opportunity for change. The goal of renewable energy essentially, is to make the future better for everyone. Isn't that what the industry should stand for today as well? So here is today's big question, what is being done to boost women's renewable energy careers, from education to employment, in order to allow their talent to be fully realized? to shed some light on this, joining us today is Joanna Osawe, the President and CEO of women in renewable energy or wire. Welcome, Joanna. Are you ready to get started? Maybe you could begin by telling our listeners a bit about you and what drew you to the renewable energy sector.

Joanna Osawe  04:22

So I started in the renewable sector, thanks to my mom and dad. My mom was a microbiologist and my father and mechanical engineer and through my childhood, they always promoted and really made sure that I was aware of STEM. And really what that meant. When I first started in the industry, as a matter of fact, I applied for a job that was a pharmaceutical job. And the recruiter actually, that met with me actually told me that I was there for a renewable position. And as a matter of fact, Daniel for two years prior to that I was looking to get into the sector. And this was really, you know, a huge eye opener for me. And that's when I began my career was with Gail force energy. And then it was bought out by AirTriCity and then bought out by Eon, which is the biggest private utility in the world based out of Dusseldorf, by then I had moved to Chicago. And, and, you know, really my career started when the renewable sector was very young and fresh back in the 1990s, you know, the generating coal plants are really the activity of the day, then we moved on into the year 2000s. And we saw that renewable sector, you know, started to really make an impact. Infrastructure, of course started to build up and mining took a dip. And really, you know, the activity of the day has been really to follow the market trends. And the renewable sector is something that I'm extremely passionate about.

Dan Seguin  05:51

Cool, very nice journey. There's a line on your website that I really like, it's "WIRE is inclusive of all renewable energy technologies". Can you tell us about that line, the objectives of your organization? And why the focus on renewable energy versus the energy industry as a whole?

Joanna Osawe  06:18

That's a great question. Thank you. So our mission is very simple. It's to advance the role and recognition of women in the energy sector. When I say when, because I started my career in the renewable sector. You know, WIRE is something that I'm very passionate about, especially the renewable side, however, we are all inclusive of all, every single type of energy. Anyone that is in the energy sector, there's a place for them to come and network with us to attend field trips, because most people don't know the difference is between a distribution line versus a transmission line. And the platform is really open to to anyone that has an interest and understanding more and getting educated. So our programming consists of networking, field trips, mentoring, speed, interviewing, student bursaries, we have a great awards program, we do blogs on different folks, we really work with indigenous community. So we're really impactful on a lot of different streams, and certainly, WIRE again, because I started my career in the renewables. And, and really, I wanted to focus on that, but we are inclusive of all different types of energies.

Dan Seguin  07:29

Okay, Joanna, can you give us some examples of how your organization is closing the gap, and advancing the role and recognition of women in the sector?

Joanna Osawe  07:42

Certainly, we offer a lot of mentorship, we also have networking events, I'll be bringing C suite speakers, where you know, they have the time to educate our participants, our stakeholders and what they do. And we have different  women that actually come in to us. Whether it's, you know, Michelle Brannigan from HRC, whether it's Jane Travers, from the Vice President of OPG, whether it's  Ayesha Sabouba from hydro one, I mean, we have such a plethora of amazing women in our sector. And we really highlight that, because, you know, the the energy sector is very complicated and complex sector. And it's really important to understand what an engineer does what a financier does what even an ornithologist, an archaeologist does. So it really molds everything together. Also on the gender gap, we definitely promote to support one another, and be able to be there. So we offer mentorship programs as well. And that's very important. We also work with students, because students are really the platform where they're able to elevate and really start looking into networking and understanding the energy sector. So we actually just started a student Harper student chapter at ontario Tech University. And this month, we're opening up at University of Windsor as well.

Dan Seguin  09:04

Is it equally about creating a culture of belonging in the workplace, and the work organizations need to do to create welcoming, inclusive spaces?

Joanna Osawe  09:19

So one is really about how we view it. It's that inclusivity it's about gender diversity and inclusion. And that means everyone here in Toronto, we have over 117 spoken languages. And we are so lucky here in Toronto, and in Canada, where we are a multicultural society. And I want to see this being inclusive of everyone. And when I mean everyone, men, women, LGBTQ to us, it's really about the diversity. I think that coming from different backgrounds and different cultures. The moment that we're seated at that executive board table, we actually are able to provide different solutions, because of our different backgrounds or different demographics, and I do believe that this is about inclusivity, that mostly about making sure that, that there's equality as well.

Dan Seguin  10:12

Okay, how do you think we can attract the younger generation of girls to consider career paths and education in STEM? Can you also maybe talk about how you engage young women to think about careers in renewable energy as an exciting option?

Joanna Osawe  10:32

So definitely, you know, for me, it started at home. And it was because of my parents, I think that STEM is something that even as a young child, they should be learning. We also have, like I just pointed out, you do have the student chapters now because it does give them a platform to be able to network with different people, and also be able to understand again, our industry, I think that definitely with when I was in university, we didn't have a WIRE or organization that actually helped me network. I think that the quicker that, you know, someone networks, the better off they are, because it is a very small industry, and everyone seems to know one another. I think that for children, again, there's different actually wire partners with a lot of different organizations. So there's one called skilled trades, or kick ass careers. And it's Jamie McMillan. And actually what she does, she goes to different elementary schools and high schools and actually talks about what skilled trades are, we partner with a lot of different organizations that also such as relay education that really educate children right into what they're doing. So I think it's very important to engage with partners for why or some parts, engage with different partners, that we can actually solidify our message together. And so people know that there are platforms that they can reach out.

Dan Seguin  12:03

Okay, maybe you can expand on some of the barriers to entry for women in renewable in the renewable energy sector. Joanna, what advice do you have for a woman starting her career in renewable energy.

Joanna Osawe  12:20

Um, I can only speak for myself. However, one of the things that when I was applying for jobs when I was my goodness, 23/24 i, there's jobs that I had no business applying for, and I've never boxed myself in, you know, requirements are there and qualifications, but I really bypass all those. And I truly wouldn't be where I am today, if it wasn't, you know, for the fact that I don't, I didn't check every single box. I think that apply for the jobs that, you know, you align with, apply for jobs that are not, you may not think they're attainable. And surprisingly, for me, it worked out. And but I also was never afraid of, of applying for jobs that were above me. And I think too often, we are segmented. And we need to check that box. So that's one advice as well. And also, you don't have to be an engineer to enter the renewable space. There's so many different opportunities, from data analysts to be an ornithologist to be an archaeologist to environmental assessments. I mean, you know, there's, there's just so many different ways that you can get engaged. So I'm not an engineer, and yet, you know, 15 plus years later, I'm sitting where I am.

Dan Seguin  13:43

So you don't want you don't want to be afraid to step out of the box.

Joanna Osawe  13:47

That's right.

Dan Seguin  13:48

Yes. Okay. Um, well, I know that mentorship plays an important role in your organization, as you stated, what are your thoughts on how established women in the energy sector can play the role of a mentor for an upcoming generation?

Joanna Osawe  14:08

Right now, I'm actually mentoring two different women, currently. One is with the Clean Energy Business Council out of Dubai, and we've partnered with them Women in clean energy, and it's a young lady that has just entered into the energy space. Another one that I mentoring is with Women for Climate which the City of Toronto has launched, and I'm mentoring this amazing young woman who's looking into sustainable textiles. And I really feel that it's important to mentor but even more importantly, to sponsor someone where you're actually taking them to that next level. I've been very fortunate in my career, that I had great male champions that believed in me and really sponsored me so to me mentorship and sponsorships are a little bit You know, I define them differently a little bit.

Dan Seguin  15:04

Okay. Can you talk a bit, a bit more about your programming? What makes WIRE unique? And in ways in what ways can you create that greater awareness in the industry, and about the exciting career opportunities that actually exist?

Joanna Osawe  15:25

Certainly, when I started, WIRE, this was back in 2012. And then we launched in 2013, we had started just in Toronto, we're now in every single province in Canada, as well as the territories, we have expanded in the Middle East. We are now in Azerbaijan, Georgia, Turkey, Jordan, and UAE. And we actually get invited to these countries. And the reason that we're there is because Canadian embassies, I work with the Canadian embassies and consulates. And because our Prime Minister's vision is really aligned with WIRE's vision as well to make sure that we're advancing the role and recognition of women. So therefore, I like to talk about local, so be global, but act local, so some of the programming here in Canada may not necessarily coincide with Turkey, or in Jordan. So we have to be very mindful and sensitive to different demographics. When I presented or I gave my intervention of the G7, two years ago on gender diversity, the G7 countries also had, you know, have requested that we enter the market. So at this point, we are working with them as well. Some of our programming, like I said, In Canada, include some networking, which is extremely important, because I do believe, and I'm using Annette Verschuren, the president ceo, quote from from NRstor, "your network is your net worth". And I think that that's a very good, fantastic quote. And also, you know, with, with the networking, it's huge. The field trips are extremely important. We've had hundreds of them, we actually did last year with OPG at the SIR Adam back generating station, we've been to the IEA. So we've been to wind farms, solar farms, energy storage projects. So the list goes on and on. And this is open to all. So just because some of the programming is for women, you may think because of WIRE, however it is open to all. We like we have student bursaries. So students can attend conferences, because when I was a student, I can tell you, I did not have $2,000 to attend a conference. So we definitely provide that platform. We also, we also do speed mentoring, speed interviewing. So we work with different companies that are looking for talent pools that we can actually provide them so and it really diminishes the hours for human resources and they're able to shortlist really great candidates. The speed mentoring we do at different conferences we do with different companies as well, we're repair of course decision makers with students or emerging professionals. We work with indigenous communities, we do blogs, we do awards, I love our awards section because we really highlight women and champion them so we have Woman of the Year award which we presented Afro yearly woman have went which was with Can Ria, which is now Can Ria woman a solar can't see it, but now can we can see I've joined forces, they're called now Can Ria we do? Women have hydro with water power, Canada, and right now we are working with for the second year in a row with NRcan, C3C and IEA to provide organizational awards and, and also individual awards. So this was actually presented this year at the G 20. And in August, so we're consistently growing on programs and looking at different ways to make sure that we're outreaching. As mentioned earlier, we definitely have opened up student chapters. So we definitely want to make sure that students have are able to, you know, leave on with us and connect with us. And one thing that's very unique about WIRE is that we are extremely welcoming. And one thing that I even when I was younger and I did attend certain workshops or events, I would be very uncomfortable and uneasy. However I think once again, we are very open minded and we're always inclusive, and that is the way that you know, that's the feedback we get.

Dan Seguin  19:32

Okay, and by the way, I will be testing your speed interview skills shortly. Okay, so how has the pandemic changed your landscape? Maybe you can elaborate on some of the impacts and how your sector has adapted.

Joanna Osawe  19:55

Certainly, and I'll share this report with you we actually WIRE published a report it was called navigating COVID-19 and the future of energy. So we actually interviewed 35 plus CEOs and VPS, across Canada. And this was men, women and all that we interviewed anonymously. And, you know, it was very interesting to hear from the east coast to Central Canada to the west coast, the differences, and you know, the similarities as well. And for WIRE, but that meant is that we have to start virtually, and me not being extremely technical when it comes to technology. I have amazing volunteers, amazing support system that really came forward to assist make sure that we are still able to be outspoken, we're still able to reach out to to our stakeholders, our participants. And what's changes now that is become more on a global scale. So we're actually connecting to WIRE, Canada, two WIRE Turkey, to WIRE Azerbaijan. So I think it's really actually quite impactful. And I think that that's actually become more accessible in a lot of different ways. So that's what's changed for us.

Dan Seguin  21:10

Okay, maybe you can share the link with me, and I'll put it in our show notes. So listeners can actually look into it.

Joanna Osawe  21:17

Yes, perfect.

Dan Seguin  21:18

Okay, so looking to a post pandemic horizon, what are some of the hard business lessons your sector was exposed to, or opportunities that were found,

Joanna Osawe  21:32

I'm so used to attending events and being extremely social, and really networking and traveling. So that came to a full stop. That really impacted me personally. Because I'm so used to being around people and doing workshops, like I said, or being a panelist or a moderator. So that really stopped. You know, we were supposed to be in Chile presenting the the C3 awards this year, I mean, there's a lot of exciting opportunities or travel opportunities that we were wanting to expand as well with WIRE. So that really changed. Another thing that changes, obviously, now we're connecting through virtual platforms at all times. And I'm sure that there's a lot of zoom fatigue these days. And I think that's become a dip that's become very interesting to speak to people through your computer rather than personally, because being face to face has a different feel to it. So that's changed. However, I've adapted, you know, I think that as time passes you sort of mold into what's happened. And you know, you're, we have to be safe, and we have to be cautious. And, you know, I think that until it is safe, so we are going to protect the community at WIRE and everyone else.

Dan Seguin  22:58

So, Joanna, would you say that this pandemic is an opportunity for a green recovery for the planet? Are you encouraged by the federal government's recent $10 billion infrastructure investments to support renewable energy?

Joanna Osawe  23:17

Absolutely, I think the pandemic has definitely impacted climate change in a good way in a positive way. I mean, we can definitely see there was less cars driving I mean, there's, it's I think that is really has changed the landscape or for our environment, which is a positive thing. I'm sure you saw this as well, in Venice, there are dolphins found swimming, right. And we've seen such a great impact on air pollution as well. As far as this throne speech, I am so proud of our government for actually allocating the $10 billion because Canada is a leader in the renewable sector, and I'm very proud that our government is supporting and continuing to work with, you know, with our sector, I think that's a very important sector and we need to recognize that so I definitely applaud them for doing so.

Dan Seguin  24:11

Okay, Joanna, are you ready to close us off with some rapid fire questions?

Joanna Osawe  24:18

Yes.

Dan Seguin  24:19

Okay. What is your favorite word?

Joanna Osawe  24:22

gratefulness / being grateful

Dan Seguin  24:25

Good, very good one. What is the one thing you can't live without?

Joanna Osawe  24:31

Chocolate

Dan Seguin  24:36

What habit or hobby Have you picked up during shelter in place?

Joanna Osawe  24:42

I'm a terrible cook so I've been trying to cook.

Dan Seguin  24:48

If you could have one superpower, what would it be

Joanna Osawe  24:52

To fly!

Dan Seguin  24:53

Okay, if you could turn back time and talk to your 18 year old self What would you tell her?

Joanna Osawe  25:02

Not to worry.

Dan Seguin  25:06

And lastly, what do you currently find most interesting in your sector?

Joanna Osawe  25:12

My colleagues that have become friends. And also, you know, the energy sector for me has always not been a job in our career. It's been a lifestyle. So I think that's the way I view it. That's what's really exciting to me.

Dan Seguin  25:24

Very nice. Well, Joanna, we've reached the end of another episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast last question for you. How can our listeners learn more about you? And women in renewable energy? How can they connect?

Joanna Osawe  25:40

Please email us at [email protected]. Visit our website at womeninrenewableenergy.ca. You can follow us on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter, of course, and subscribe to our newsletter. We have great events coming up on a monthly basis, sometimes two or three as well. So we welcome you and thank you.

Dan Seguin  26:02

Again, thank you so much for joining me today. I hope you had a lot of fun.

Joanna Osawe  26:06

I sure did. Thanks, Dan. This is really great.

Dan Seguin  26:11

Thank you for joining us today. I truly hope you enjoyed this episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. For past episodes, make sure you visit our website hydroottawa.com/podcast. Lastly, if you found value in this podcast, be sure to subscribe. Anyway, this podcast is a wrap. Cheers, everyone.

Does energy storage hold great potential for a Canada in which wind and solar power could dominate new power plant additions and gradually overtake other sources of electricity? How can energy storage make up for the current limitations of renewables? Find out if energy storage, particularly electricity storage, is the missing piece in the renewables jigsaw as Justin Rangooni, Executive director of Energy Storage Canada, shares his perspective.

Related Content & Links:

• https://hydroottawa.com/
• Websites:
  • https://www.energystoragecanada.org 
• Twitter: @EnergystorageON
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-rangooni-5063b542/

 

Transcript:

Dan Seguin  00:42

Hey, everyone, welcome back. This is the ThinkEnergy podcast. If you're following energy trends around the world, you've likely heard about energy storage. It's a big topic, and there's a lot to unpack. While there are many types of systems to store energy, I think it's easiest to think of energy storage as the battery that you use to capture energy when it's produced, so you can use it at another time, perhaps when energy isn't available, like during a power outage. With renewable energy continuing to grow in Canada, where does energy storage fit? You have to wonder if energy storage will become the new power plants of the future. One thing is certain energy storage will play an important role in the future supply mix for electricity, most obviously, in creating a more flexible and reliable grid system. For example, when there is more supply than demand, such as during the night when energy costs are lower and power plants continue to operate, the surplus electricity generation can be sent to power energy storage systems, instead of being sold at a loss or going to waste. While wind and solar are great. They can only produce energy at a certain time. This reality has been a barrier for mass integration into modern electricity grids. Since the constant availability of reliable power is paramount to the country and our economy, a complimentary technology like energy storage could help fill the gap for managing today's renewables. Synergies between wind energy, solar energy and energy storage also mean that these technologies can provide a broader range of services to the grid when used in a coordinated manner that reduce overall electricity systems costs, such as building new and expensive generating plants. But at what scale are we at for energy storage today? And where is it headed in the near future? Is there a strategy and evidence that energy storage is a solution we're looking for? In short, where is Canada at on the energy storage journey to adoption? This leads me to today's big question: is energy storage the missing piece in the renewables jigsaw puzzle? And the solution for Canada's energy needs? Joining me today is a very special guest. Justin Rangooni, the executive director at energy storage Canada, who's here to help us unbox the energy storage mystery. Justin, welcome to the ThinkEnergy podcast. Justin, can you tell us a bit about yourself? What energy storage is and what your organization Energy Storage Canada does what it's all about?

Justin Rangooni  04:04

Of course, Daniel, and thanks for having me on the chat. Always glad to chat with you and see our friends at Hydro Ottawa. Again, well, Energy Storage Canada is the National voice for energy storage. We are the only Association dedicated to advancing energy storage in the country. We have over 60 members from across the energy storage value chain from the biggest global companies to the most innovative startups. And we develop policy positions, advocate and educate decision makers and host educational and networking opportunities through webinars and our annual conference. We're basically energy storage 24 / 7, 365 days a year.

Dan Seguin  04:43

Cool. Okay, at a high level, what are we talking about in terms of large scale or grid scale energy storage? What sizes are available? How long can the energy be stored for and is the goal to power cities for days or weeks?

Justin Rangooni  05:02

Not a good question again, what makes energy storage so unique is the varying degrees of sizes, capabilities and technologies. In terms of larger grid scale, you know, we're talking about projects in the hundreds up to 1000 megawatts. But energy storage projects can be in the kilowatts as well, it all depends on the project and where it's located. And depending on the discharge rate of how much energy is injected back into the grid, it could be a couple hours or even more, again, all depends on the technology and the capabilities. And the goal for the sector is really to optimize generation, optimize distribution and transmission assets, provide the grid with reliable service and support the goal of affordability for all ratepayers.

Dan Seguin  05:45

Okay, Tesla made a splash back in 2015, with its announcement of the power wall system, essentially small scale energy storage for homes, has there been any movement in this area?

Justin Rangooni  06:00

So that is definitely the wave of the future as customers demand more choice and control of their energy needs. So small scale energy storage for homes will be getting there, especially as you see increased prevalence of electric vehicles and rooftop solar systems, residential storage systems, you know, as using the EV battery itself, and in hibernating with the source solar system would be in lockstep. What you're seeing a lot now in Ontario is behind the meter storage devices for large industrial customers, which are helping manage their consumption. So it's getting there. But right now, it's not quite but we are getting there into the small scale.

Dan Seguin  06:41

Okay. Justin, can you explain what the clean energy goals are for the energy storage sector? What types of policies at the municipal provincial federal level need to be in place to succeed?

Justin Rangooni  06:57

Sure, so our clean energy goals are to optimize cleaner sources of generation and to help with the energy transition are such talking really, a lot of other provinces are still relying on coal especially, and planning the transition away. So what we say is that we can optimize your existing cleaner assets, variable generation or otherwise, by having storage within the system. So you may you do not necessarily need to build new, dirtier forms of generation, you can use energy storage, to twin with your cleaner sources actually have. And in terms to do that, we're talking about removal of barriers, market opportunities, and just the general sense that energy storage resources are a mainstream tool for system operators to use.

Dan Seguin  07:44

Moving on to the question, Justin, on how can Canada unlock the potential of the energy storage?

Justin Rangooni  07:54

And that is the key question. And it was the focus of our annual conference recently. And in fact, it was the title of a valuation study we did for Ontario that we released this summer, which concluded that if the province had at least 1000 megawatts of energy storage enabled in the province, over the next decade, ratepayers would enjoy a net savings of over $2 billion. And to unlock that potential, again, it comes down to the removal of regulatory barriers, to fully enable energy storage, and its value offerings, and the creation of market opportunities. And again, for system operators to start to see things a little differently, see energy storage as a tool to be used. And that can be applied to the distribution side as well, that instead of traditional poles and wires, or traditional generation sources that you look at energy storage, which is a bit of a jack of all trades, or a Swiss Army knife to provide various service offerings for you. And so it's starting to see things a little differently with energy storage index.

Dan Seguin  08:56

Now, the Canadian government recently announced a $10 billion infrastructure investment plan and specifically mentioned it would support both renewable and energy storage. What are your thoughts on the government plans?

Justin Rangooni  09:16

So we were very supportive of that we're supportive of anything that comes from the federal government in terms of helping with the economics of energy storage projects or helping facilitate energy storage projects across the country. So with the announcement from the Canada's infrastructure bank, which is about a $2.5 billion funding initiative, we are very supportive and we look forward to working with the CIV on details. And we're looking forward to an upcoming federal budget which we hope will include even more funding opportunities, grants, and other types of programs for our energy storage going forward.

Dan Seguin  09:51

Okay, what has been the impact of the pandemic on energy on the energy storage industry?

Justin Rangooni  10:00

Well as with everything in every sector, it's the uncertainty that it has caused with what decisions can be made by the government decision makers that could have unintended consequences. For instance, in Ontario, their decision earlier this year to place a hiatus on the ICI program, the industrial conservation initiative, we have what it calls an unintended consequence of the decision because I put a lot of projects that were about to be built behind the meter on hold. So we understand what, you know, the challenges the government is facing to make decisions around the pandemic. We just hope that I think it's just it's stressed the importance of communication to understand how everybody could be affected by those decisions. So we are working with the government to ensure that no, we're here talk to us, we're here to help. Let's try to find a nice path forward to help with the economic recovery coming out of this pandemic, hopefully, in a not so distant future.

Dan Seguin  10:57

Okay. Do you see the development and scaling of energy storage solution being imperative to successful transformation of the energy sector and the electricity grid? If so, how do you see energy storage accelerating in the years to come?

Justin Rangooni  11:19

I think it's the latter question that is really key. Because we're seeing energy storage accelerating throughout the energy system across Canada. And we're talking about from residential use electric vehicles use as a battery to the continued use of behind the meter for large for large customers, more hybrid projects to better optimize current assets to transmission and distribution, deferral. So we're really looking at the entire gamut for energy storage is role to be played. And it really again depends on those market opportunities and removing barriers to really unlock energy storage's potential.

Dan Seguin  11:52

Given the grid expertise of utilities, what role will they play in the energy storage field?

Justin Rangooni  12:00

So we see that as the role being absolutely critical, as utility or utility members that we have ourselves we view they view energy storage as an essential tool as part of their system planning. And we believe all distributors and all utilities across the country will do as well. And we expect to see the only enhancement of energy storage resources as  a tool as an alternative to traditional poles and wires for utilities, which can better optimize utilities, investments in their poles and wires, and help with ratepayers affordability issues as well, by using storage, which is a cheaper alternative, in many cases to just building the status quo.

Dan Seguin  12:40

Okay, Justin, it's now time to pull up your crystal ball with plans to further electrify public transportation and promote urban intensification, do you think that utilities are likely to account for a large share of battery energy storage in Canada?

Justin Rangooni  12:58

So I'll get the crystal ball. I think the use of energy storage resources and the distribution level is inevitable. And that's a good thing. So I think we'll be seeing utilities utilizing energy storage resources in front and behind the meter in much greater share than they are doing now. I think with the removal of regulatory barriers, and just a more general sense that seeing energy storage as a tool for utilities to use, I think we're going to see a lot greater share. And that's a really good thing for the utilities, ratepayers and the system as a whole.

Dan Seguin  13:32

Now, the next question is a mouthful, the economic value of energy storage is closely tied to other major trends impacting today's Power System, most notably the increasing penetration of wind and solar generation. How does battery storage help make better use of electricity system assets? Can it defer or even eliminate unnecessary investments in capital intensive assets, like building new and expensive generating plants to meet our country's forecasted energy needs?

Justin Rangooni  14:08

So yeah, that was a mouthful. And I think the response is really short. I think, yes, it can. And it's one of the major value propositions of energy storage. Depending on the business case, and again, the technology you're using beyond just batteries, because energy storage could be compressed air facilities could be flywheels, pumped storage, and thermal storage. There are many different technologies available. And depending on the business case being used, you could see it as a deferment, or in place of building traditional generation, or, the deferment of just building traditional poles and wires, for instance, it all depends on the business case, but again, because it's a tool, that's what we're trying to say is have that as a tool so you can see if it is the better alternative.

Dan Seguin  14:56

Now, are you ready to close us off with some rest rapid fire questions.

Justin Rangooni  15:01

Of course! Those are my favorite.

Dan Seguin  15:04

Okay, well, what is your favorite word?

Justin Rangooni  15:08

Cookies

Dan Seguin  15:10

Okay, what is the one thing you can't live without?

Justin Rangooni  15:15

Cookies?

Dan Seguin  15:18

Okay, what habit or hobby? Have you picked up during shelter-in-place?

Justin Rangooni  15:25

Well, it would be cutting my own hair and cutting my son's hair. Okay, I thought you were going to say baking cookies. Oh, baking cookies. There you go. Okay.

Dan Seguin  15:36

If you could have one superpower, what would it be?

Justin Rangooni  15:40

Oh, I would say flying, we can skip the airport lines. That would be the best.

Dan Seguin  15:45

If you could turn back time and talk to your 18 year old self. What would you tell him?

Justin Rangooni  15:52

Well, I would say get your sleep in now. Because with three kids that is definitely in short supply.

Dan Seguin  16:00

Good, good one. And lastly, what do you currently find most interesting in your sector?

Justin Rangooni  16:08

Well, I think the most interesting thing is the endless opportunities for innovation and creativity. Energy Storage being a tool that can be used by utilities like customers by the system operators. The possibilities are endless with energy storage. That's what makes the sector so exciting.

Dan Seguin  16:28

Well, Justin, we've reached the end of another episode, I think energy podcasts. Last question for you. How can our listeners learn more about you and energy storage Canada? How can they connect?

Justin Rangooni  16:43

That is the best question of the day. They can look at our website at energystoragecanada.org all the information is there of who we are what we do. Joining up for memberships Of course, you can see our all our publications and our submissions. All the and there's a lot of great information up there. So check out energystoragecanada.org.

Dan Seguin  17:05

Cool. Again, thank you for joining me today. I hope you had a lot of fun.

Justin Rangooni  17:09

Sure did, Daniel. Thanks so much for the opportunity.

Dan Seguin  17:14

Thank you for joining us today. I truly hope you enjoyed this episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. For past episodes, make sure you visit our website hydroottawa.com/podcast. Lastly, if you found value in this podcast, be sure to subscribe. Anyway, this podcast is a wrap. Cheers, everyone.

As electric vehicles (EVs) earn the spotlight as an impactful step towards environmental sustainability, what can municipalities, electric utilities and oil companies do to support a true EV movement in Canada? Jim Pegg, Director of Infrastructure Product and Service at Envari Energy Solutions, shares his expertise on the infrastructure (i.e. charging stations) and services (i.e. electrical supply) that will be necessary to encourage EV adoption while ensuring a smooth transition.

Related Content & Links:

Websites:

• Envari - https://www.envari.com/
• Hydro Ottawa - https://hydroottawa.com/

Social media:

• Twitter: @Envari
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/envari/

Transcript:

Dan Seguin  00:43

Hey, everyone, welcome back. This is the ThinkEnergy podcast. According to the US Department of Energy, electric cars can be traced back to the early 1800s while horses and buggies were still the primary mode of transportation, inventors in Hungary, the Netherlands, and the US were creating some of the first small scale electric cars between 1828 and 1835. By the turn of the century, in early 1900s, electric vehicles accounted for a third of all vehicles on the road in the US. So what happened? Now, another century later, electricity is finally on track to become the fuel of the future that will move both people and goods sustainably and environmentally around the country. And nationwide, EV fast charging network was only introduced in December of 2019 by Petro Canada. It consisted of a network that boasts 51 fast chargers at their stations as far east as Halifax, Nova Scotia, and as far west as Victoria, British Columbia. EV drivers now have access to stations located all along the Trans-Canada highway, making a coast to coast track achievable. Other major players are getting into the game with Canadian tire committing to 300 charging stations spread over 90 locations across Canada. Wow. So no more range anxiety? This is great news because consumers rank not having enough accessible charging stations as a third more serious barrier to an EV purchase, behind price and long range travel. Despite this obstacle, EV sales have continued to rise. But it's clear that to support that growth, we need to roll out charging stations at municipal, provincial and federal levels is the key to bolster rates of EV adoption. More EV charging infrastructure in urban and rural areas? Will better infrastructure increased consumer confidence in electrical vehicles. From a local perspective, what are Canadian municipalities doing to advance their local infrastructure to successfully accommodate EV charging networks? Here's today's big question. Are electric utilities and oil company’s two industries in unique positions to help build a true EV movement in Canada? The former controls electricity distribution networks in the province and municipalities while the latter already operates strategically located fuel stations for internal combustion vehicles. Joining me today is a very special guest, Jim Pegg, Director of infrastructure products and services at Envari energy solutions, who is here to answer these big and small EV questions for us. Jim, can you tell us a bit about Envari and your role specifically, as it relates to electric vehicles and EV infrastructure and charging stations? Second, as an energy management company, can you expand on your strategic position to catalyze this shift to electric mobility?

Jim Pegg  04:25

Essentially, Envari is a diversified energy solutions company. We're a team of engineers’ project managers that problem solve and help businesses and governments implement innovative electrical, mechanical lighting-related projects. As a competitive affiliate of Hydro Ottawa, we're trusted experts in energy efficiency, sustainability, as well as asset management. Our clients’ needs take center stage for us, and we're committed we're very committed to our customer success. Our goal is to help them save energy, you know, reduce emissions and identify areas of poor performance as a good example. Before they have a chance to erode essentially, their bottom line, we're trying to help them avoid those situations. We deliver energy projects from start to finish. So we're concept to commissioning type organization. We provide expert advice, we leverage our buying power, complementing and supplementing our projects team. In terms of their ability to deliver outstanding results and performance results, I'd say we're recognized in the industry for always protecting our customers’ best interests, and adhering to the highest standards of quality and reliability. And obviously, very importantly, safety.

Dan Seguin  05:43

Thanks. Studies show that public charging will be even more important in the near future, particularly in the next decade. What strategies should utilities and municipalities be looking to adopt to ensure we're prepared?

Jim Pegg  06:01

Well, I mean, that's a great question. And I think we very much agree that public charging is becoming more and more common right across North America, we sit on various committees, and we see this discussion is really starting to catch fire. Example, you know, now there was more than 1000 public charging stations over in BC I think. And, you know, people are using them for various types of experiences, whether it's just popping out to the mall or range extending, because they want to head out to the cottage or go for a road trip, especially with COVID going on, people are getting a lot more in country traveling. And, and so it's certainly becoming more and more of a topic. I'd say with utilities, Dan, it's all about capacity, which typically isn't an issue for something like a level two charger, but certainly becomes a big part of the conversation for level three fast chargers, which can draw significantly more power, you know, typically a level three, fast charger, you know, you get into the 50 kilowatt range, but they're obviously getting bigger and bigger and faster and faster. also important to note that car technology out there is changing too, right? Different electric vehicles can accept that different charge at different rates. So you might plug in one vehicle to a charger, and it takes a certain amount of time to charge and another vehicle might take a different amount of time to charge. So for utilities, again, they're looking at standards, you know, looking at related to charger connections, details, like your metering requirements, and how they can work with different vendors and manufacturers to do things as simple as mounting the meter to an actual public charging station, versus having to have a separate, you know, installation post or something like that, those little details will actually go a long way with really helping to enable that technology to get out there and, and not run into those types of roadblocks. I say for the longer term impact of charging, it's going to become more of a key system planning piece. So working to understand that the penetration of these chargers, and that related infrastructure. The impacts of large fleets converting to electric vehicles is going to be a big, big discussion point as well, you know, municipalities, I think all across North America are looking at their fleets. And if converting to electric makes sense to them, as you know, a lot of places that have declared climate emergencies. And a big way to support the effort to reduce emissions, obviously, is converting to electric vehicles and to do so that infrastructure becomes a key part of that play. So I think  those are big parts of the conversation for utilities, other technologies are starting to come into play like energy storage, energy storage acts a lot like a distributed energy resource. So over the last 10 or 15 years, utilities have been really making a big shift to having more distributed generation in their system versus the sort of large generation pumping in I've got generation all over the place. Well, batteries and chargers come into that situation not to and it's more deemed as an energy resource facility is what they would call it now because of battery can operate a lot like a like a generator. So utilities are having to look at all these different factors and take those into consideration with connection processes, and working with customers to try and make it as simple as possible for the customer. Because at the end of the day, there can be some very technical pieces to it, you know, you can always dive into the weeds of this stuff. But our goal is to make these chargers available to the public and to make these things accessible, so that so that we can get this infrastructure in place. So I think utilities have certainly started the conversation and are working to go a long way with trying to help streamline those processes. Municipalities are a big part of that as well. They're doing a great job. We've spoken with many families that are taking a real good hard look at their fleets as well as public charging offerings. And  I think a big part of what municipalities are doing is trying to look at standards for, you know, understanding optimal locations for, for EV chargers for the public what makes sense, as well as working with their local utility that was a huge part of the discussion, having those early conversations, because you want to avoid things that, you know, one group may know is a roadblock. And they might say one site is better than another. And you can really avoid going too far down a trail that has a dead end to it, if you have that conversation early. And I think I know here in Ottawa, specifically the utilities do an excellent job of, of being part of that conversation and Envari is, is well positioned to support those conversations as well. So those are, those are some of the big things. Another big thing that municipalities are trying to do is look at their fleet turnover. So you know, sort of the natural expiration date of their different fleets. So if you look at transit fleets, or, or even, you know, things like bylaw type fleets or utility type vehicles, things like that, where there is a natural life expectancy to those vehicles, the best time to convert it to an electric vehicle is when that asset is due for replacement. Rather than replacing it early and sort of leaving an asset stranded, you can take advantage of that replacement cycle and sort of naturally come up with a plan that sort of fits in in terms of replacing those vehicles. And then along with that, you can then do sort of a bit of a work back plan to say, Okay, if I'm going to have this many electric vehicles come into my system at this point in time, I need to have the infrastructure that's going to support that. And that's where that's where the planning all the work comes into place and to getting those things set up.

Dan Seguin  11:49

Okay. Great segue here. Now, most are familiar with level one, level two chargers, as most are applicable for homes and workplaces. But when time matters, like on a highway or public parking lots, a level three charger, also known as a direct current fast charger may be better suited, wondering if you could explain the differences and their impact on the grid?

Jim Pegg  12:18

Sure, I can take a stab at that for sure. So, you know, this is a question that comes up quite often. And I think it's, it's a good one to ask. So absolutely a level one charger is essentially a wall outlet, 120 volt system, what people would find in our house we could plug your coffeemaker into. And then if you get into the level two world level two chargers a little bit faster. So it's a bit more power output. And you know, with a level one charger, you might be in eight to 12 hours to essentially trickle charge that battery with a level two charger, you've got a bit more power, a bit more flow behind that electricity pushing into the car. And you can charge your car and more of the four hour range or in some cases three and a half to four hours. Again, cars provide a bit of variance there, that I would relate to more of a 240 volt system. So if someone's thinking, you know, an electric baseboard heater in your house has 240 volts, it's got a bit more power to it. That's kind of the idea behind an electric vehicle level two charger, when you get into a level three charger, there's a bit of a range there. So of level three chargers sort of started out as the 50 kilowatt charger. And that became sort of the most common level three charger. In that case, you're getting into a much more power, higher voltages in air essentially, again, same idea as the one to two step, it's a much bigger step to the level three, and you're pushing that power into the vehicles quite a bit faster. And the power requirements are higher. Level three chargers have a range, you know, there's 50 kilowatts, and I've seen them up to 150 kilowatts. And for fleet charging, it goes up and up and up from there. And that becomes specific to the type of vehicle you have and what you're trying to charge in terms of what power it can accept. From the grid standpoint and the distribution system. It's certainly a topic that matters. I've say the level two chargers are certainly a key topic for utilities, because your distribution transformers in your subdivisions. Those have a limit to them. So as there's higher and higher penetration of electric vehicles, those distribution transformers is going to start to see more and more load. And I know utilities, especially I can say for certain Hydro Ottawa. They're closely looking at that trend, looking at what the uptake in electric vehicles will be looking at the subdivisions that are starting to pick up with more and more electric vehicles and trying to make sure that they're planning ahead for what that that transformation capacity needs to be to support that. There's also some education there that the utility can use to support the public in terms of when they charge their vehicles, the optimum time to charge the vehicle to have a less of an impact on the grid. So all those different factors come into place. With a level three charger, you're certainly in a situation of more power, you might be in a situation where you're having a dedicated service or having to increase your service. Level three charges, you'd see it places more like a mall, or commercial spaces, places where people might travel to, you know, along the highways, you might have a rest stop with a level three charger, those have obviously the higher power requirement because people are looking to charge their vehicles faster, they want the gas station experience, they want to show up, fill up the car, grab their coffee, and a doughnut, whatever it is, they're going to, you know, have their seven minute stretch and hop back in the car and off they go to wherever it is they're going, they don't want, you know, to have stopping charging being a big destination of a trip, right. And so there's that element to it. And as the population of electric vehicles grows and grows, I think you'll see that become more and more of a relevant topic - in terms of the fast charger. So utilities are certainly looking at the impact of those higher capacity chargers. And where that can be put onto the grid. Because as you know, Dan, the distribution system has its limits to the infrastructure that was built so many years ago didn't necessarily have that spare capacity on the system for such a quick increase in load to it. So utilities are taking a good hard look at where they need to make their investments and create this as a key input to their planning cycles for mid short and long term planning for capacity and supply.

Dan Seguin  16:35

Okay, so the business case for a charging station at home is fairly straightforward. But making a business case for fast chargers is a bit more challenging as it involves higher upfront capital and higher operating costs. Can you walk me through an assessment? A business case, if you want, for a large organization that wishes to install fast chargers? For argument's sake, like you were just talking about the large shopping center, looking for three fast chargers? What's the ROI? What's the benefit? How do they look at that?

Jim Pegg  17:16

Sure. And it's a great topic. And it's a question that many people ask because it's a more difficult one. As you can imagine that level three charger that fast charger has a significantly higher upfront capital costs than like a level two charger but it is the type of charger that people are looking more and more for at those places, as you say like shopping malls and shopping centers. In terms of the business case, you have to sort of take a multi-faceted approach and almost layer on the benefits. Because we're early into the I'd say the change to electric vehicles, you'll see that business case gets stronger and stronger each year. The more vehicles are out there, the more this business case will strengthen I'll tell you why. In my opinion, there are a few benefits one is with an electric vehicle charger at your mall as an example. People can have those electric vehicle chargers essentially called Smart chargers, they're part of a network they're part of a system people can go into their app and say you know does this mall I can literally zoom in on a map and see Is there an electric vehicle charger at this mall. And if there is that becomes the mall that they decide to go to, if there's multiple malls and only a couple of them have the chargers and they're driving an electric vehicle, they're going to go the safe bet and pick the one that has that charger in case they want to get some extra charge while they're in doing their shopping. So it becomes a bit of a marketing piece on that side of things. There's also the you know the different organizations that have the natural desire to have a branding around being green and supportive of the shift to electric vehicles. So that element is there but obviously that one's harder to tie to the bottom line dollars. This is why I say the front capital cost is the trickiest part. With chargers level two chargers and the fast chargers you can actually charge money for people charging and there are different rates for that. Now, obviously people get into electric vehicles for a few different reasons. One is obviously better for the environment, which is just the main. And the other side of it is their own personal pocketbook, right not spending the dollars on filling up the gas station they can get much further on their dollar. And so they don't want to go to a place and have really high cost for that that charge that fill up. So you can get some return from charging for fast charging and for level two charging. But it won't necessarily show you the payback in any kind of a short timeframe that you're looking for. So the good news is that's where we've seen the government jump in. So we've seen historically the federal government, the provincial government put out different programs to support the installation, that upfront capital cost of these different infrastructure pieces and chargers, and that makes a big difference. One of the things Envari is great at and this is all due to our relationships, I'd say with these different organizations is that we have a good handle on different funding mechanisms that are out there in different ways to enable that business case to make more sense, from strictly a financial standpoint. But I'd say  that business case is going to evolve with time. You know, when everyone at that shopping center shows up with an electric vehicle, and there's a huge demand for charge, your supply and demand curve is going to kick in, you'll have people charging constantly and the payback period will be much shorter on that upfront capital cost. But for the early adopter, it's important to try and take think take advantage of those funding mechanisms that are out there.

Dan Seguin  20:54

We know that at least 30% of Canadians live in multi-unit residential buildings today, and that the number is not likely to decline. Increasingly, residential real estate is moving toward multi-tenant construction. In Canada, two out of three homes built today are multifamily. In Ontario alone, nearly 700,000 households live in condos. Can you talk to me about solutions for Canadians discouraged from buying EVs? Because they have no easy means of charging them? Either in condominiums apartment buildings, or in their home at that like a driveway or garage? What can they do? And what solutions is Envari offering?

Jim Pegg  21:44

Sure, that's another great question. So I would say there are a few things to note, I think there's lots of different policy changes and things like that taking place at a provincial level. And in some cases, federal levels to support some of these some of these areas of concern. So for example, in the multi-unit residential condo type building, there's legislation that now helps support a condo owner that wants to install electric vehicle in their building, and those condos and a condo boards are then sort of put to task to go out and find a solution that meets the needs of that tenant. And once one steps forward, you know, you might get more and more stuff for but at that point, you kind of need to put together a plan Envari helps, works hard to help support that in the sense that one of the things we offer something called an EVRA, we call it an electric vehicle readiness assessment. And we essentially use that tool to help an organization or building or property plan out their EV infrastructure. So multi-unit residential is a great example of this, where if you do it on an ad hoc approach, where you know, each time someone comes along, you've put in the effort to build out the infrastructure for them to put in that electric vehicle charging station versus a planned approach where you've come up with a holistic plan for all of your spots, not necessarily to build it all at once. But to sort of have that roadmap of what it will eventually look like. There's many different ways you can take advantage to things like existing capacity in your building. And, and really optimize that so that as people come along, it kind of turns into a bit of an easy button so that people can get a charger installed and move forward and the condo board and a condo group have met their obligations. And a customer's a nice sort of easy setup as they should expect, right? So we're seeing more and more organizations reach out to us to support them on that. And certainly one of our areas of expertise is looking at all the available options and optimizing the different scenarios. So there are a few good things there. I think no matter what type of building the EV owners live in Envari is here to help right so we evaluate the situation a case by case basis, try our best to provide a feasible charging solution for EV owners living in multi residential buildings. Again, you know, we talked about the different solutions there. But that becomes a big part of the conversation. The approach is similar with you know, with large shopping centers, we go in and do a bit of an assessment to say what are your options here without having to take on huge extra costs. Because if you go down one path versus another, there can be significant differences in the cost implications, all related to the available capacity and your different options, even the charger types that you select. One of the things Envari prides itself on is somewhat is being non committed, I'd say to two different manufacturers in the sense that we're technology agnostic, we provide different solutions to the customer. We give them different options and let the customer choose what they feel best fits them. Obviously backed up by our different recommendations and experience that we've seen. So we're always trying to find the right fit for that particular organization. It's certainly not a certainly not a one size fits all type of a scenario. You have, you have another part of that, which is, you know, people that have no driveways, or no space to park at home. That's where the municipalities and cities and towns and so on are really a big part of that conversation. I'm very happy to say here in Ottawa, that is certainly on their minds, I think the phrase that's used for that type of situation as someone whose garage orphaned in the sense that they don't have somewhere they can plug in overnight, and charge their car, and they need to rely on a public charging station. So while municipalities are looking for that location to put their public charging station, it's not just all about putting a public charging station in a busy commercial area, they're also taking into account different areas of town that might be more dense that don't have as many driveways. But there is a population of people there that need access to that type of service. So they're taking all those things into consideration when selecting sites, which takes us back to our earlier conversation about what municipalities are doing and standards. So the City of Ottawa is a good example are very forward thinking in that sense and doing a great job at really looking at those different factors to try and make sure they're meeting the needs of all their all their constituents in the city here. All the residents.

Dan Seguin  26:38

Okay, Jim, let's move on. Actually, let's expand on municipalities. Studies show that transportation accounts for 25% of global greenhouse gas emissions. So there's a huge cost and environmental benefit for municipalities to move to electric. In Ottawa, it's actually quite a bit higher, where their transportation sector accounts for 44% of the city's GHG emissions. In your opinion, what steps should municipalities take to meet their various infrastructure requirements to electrify their fleets and provide public charging requirements? How is Envari helping municipalities meet their goals? I think you touched on that a bit, but maybe expand a bit.

Jim Pegg  27:28

Yeah, no, sounds good. I think so obviously, greenhouse gas emissions can be greatly reduced by electrifying you know, bus fleets, providing public charging stations, increasing the number of electric vehicles on the road. Regarding bus fleet electrification, as chargers, for battery electric buses take a significantly higher amount of power. There are very large batteries on those buses. And you also don't want to have those buses sitting there for a long time taking a long time to charge or you want them as out on the road servicing the public. So they do take that that higher power compared with, you know, car charging or things like that. So the existing electrical capacity at transit agency, bus depots is likely to be likely not to have been designed for a shift to full electrification of their of their fleets, if you look at bus fleets as an example. So to build the electrical infrastructure, I would say municipalities and I think a lot of this is happening, municipalities are working closely with their local distribution companies, as well as organizations like Envari, to try and put together what that that roadmap looks like of going from a of a base load of x getting up to, you know, a base load that which is significantly higher. So that that can involve, you know, distribution, build outs, capacity changes, service changes. And those different stakeholders that need to look at the different options that are out there as well in terms of, you know, putting together things like large energy storage, in line with their different optimizations, that power and that, that supply of power. So there's, there's, again, there's no one size fits all, but I think I think the conversation needs to start early. There needs to be a lot of information sharing. I know municipalities also do a pretty good job of sharing their experiences with each other and I can say Envari is also very active in the in the fleet communication, the fleet world I would say in terms of having active communication with different organizations that are also working hard to convert their fleets and I think we're all learning from each other as that process goes on, and I think that's the best way to do it. I mean, you've got a situation where we're, we're trying to make some big changes that are really going to support the environment. And those big changes can have huge, long lasting impacts on our communities. But it's going to take, it's going to take many minds to put those pieces together, you know, Envari is lucky in the sense that we're really well positioned being the affiliate of the utility, we've got a lot of great utility knowledge. And at the same time, we've got a lot of great behind the meter. Customer side knowledge. And so we're somewhat well positioned to have the conversations in both directions, I would say, and, and help bring those parties together in some cases to expand on that. We're very much active supporters, believers in the shift to electric mobility, the electrification of transportation, you know, again, as I said earlier, we offer services such as EVRAs, EV charger rentals and sales and also operate and maintain type services related to electric vehicle charging. And there's other pieces that come into this whole thing, right, as soon as you're talking electric vehicles and supply capacity, things like that, you need to you need to take a step back and take a look at your total energy usage, maybe at a different at a certain facility or at a site, again, with one of the great benefits we have at Envari is having that that long lasting, that long history of, of energy management's and looking at different energy sources and supplies and ways to maximize energy and buildings. So we have our buildings division, which really looks at optimizing and making a building more energy efficient. And our lighting group, which really looks at the lighting side of energy efficiency. When you pull all those pieces together, you can really optimize how much capacity you really have available, you can really optimize what you're planning for it is, but it certainly takes looking at lots of different angles. Because the amount of investment you're going to put in, you want to make sure you're leveraging that investment as much as you can. And getting multiple uses of that investment.

Dan Seguin  31:57

On investments. I think in my view, the price of DC charging solutions has dropped while AC charging stations to the level of one and twos, at least that 50 kilowatts have been more popular. They've started to lose ground to the DC fast charging stations. What impact will this trend have on utility transformers? I think you touched on that earlier. Also, will this movement require skilled in-house Energy specialist and more engineers?

Jim Pegg  32:28

Yeah. So again, another great question. I'd say the quick answer is, it will have an impact as one would expect, you know, larger chargers means larger power draw, in turn is going to be more demand on the utility. And we talked a little bit of demand on the wire side of the utility. But upstream of those wires, you get into the utilities, power transformers and their substations. And those substations have capacity limits as well. So typically, for a level three charger, you know, a detailed site specific design is required. Working hand in hand with engineers and the local utility to come up with what that solution looks like that typically customized solution. From the utilities perspective, this will also start to have an impact on utilities, as we said, their substation, transformers, everything, even the equipment on that line in terms of the different ratings of the equipment and so on, the more power that's at play, and the more power in the system, the more requirements there are to make that system operate in a reliable and safe manner. Charging through the day. But also after hours can mean the normal cooling curve of a power transformer changes. So the more electric vehicle fleet charging, for example, in high voltage DC, excuse me fast charging. If some of that's happening at night, you're going to really be putting load on those Transformers that historically wouldn't have seen much load through the night people are sleeping. Those transformers are very much designed to have a cooling cycle to them, that cooling cycles is going to change. So I know there's a lot of people looking at those impacts to see if they're if they are going to be a negative impact or not. And if there needs to be changes to those assets moving forward in terms of understanding the impacts of sort of a more high base load 24 hours a day type situation. I would say that's those are some of the big the big pieces that are being looked at.

Dan Seguin  34:30

Okay. I'd like to go back to the investment here. We're talking about significant investments for companies and municipalities. What kind of industry experience does Envari have to assist those organizations to navigate their way through the design and scaling of an EV charging program, whether it's residential, commercial fleet, and multi residential units? I think you alluded to that earlier, but maybe you can do a deeper dive.

Jim Pegg  34:59

Yeah, sure. So I think, you know, as we did talk a little bit earlier, Envari is uniquely positioned, we do have a deep understanding of the distribution system, you know, members of our staff came right from the utility with many years of experience their various roles, and as well as the customer side, because I mean that that's our business is enabling our customer success. So with that, we're able to walk projects through rate from start to finish looking at all the short and long term impacts, as they relate to both the customer as well as the utility. And understanding the utility side of it really helps us understand where there will be pushback, or being better prepared to support the utilities questions, because the utility at the end of the day has a big responsibility as well, they're responsible to all the customers on the system to make sure the system is reliable. And if you know, for certain load comes onto the system, that's going to have a negative impact on the rest of the system utility has a responsibility to make sure that that that issue is addressed because you can't have one customer come on and cause poor reliability or issues for other parts of the system. And you know, outside of normal electric or normal, normal work that goes on there's new development, there's construction intensification in cities and things like that, those also take electrical supply. So there's going to be more and more competing priorities for electrical supply. And it Envari is in a really good position to have those conversations and understand where the optimal locations may be for things like large fleets, charging and, and that type of thing. So I would say that that supports quite a bit, as well as some other expertise that I talked about earlier, you know, looking at something like an electrical vault. Envari has a great amount of experience and understanding of buildings electrical vault, which is a key part of the puzzle for electric vehicle charging, that’s sort of the area that tells you how much available capacity you have to actually install electric vehicle chargers. And optimizing that because an electrical vault can be an expensive asset. So you want to try and optimize your building's energy usage to reduce the load on that vault so that you can then leverage that spare capacity to install electric vehicle chargers before having to upgrade. But then if you do need to upgrade, the good news is there's ways to optimize the expense of those upgrades, and to work with your utility. And there's different ways you can avoid future costs too. And some of the scenarios that we're able to, to map out for customers. So, again, I think I said before this, there's no one size fits all. And our approach of having a technology agnostic approach really helps us to create a solution that fits well for each particular customer. And to take our experience from one project to the next to support peoples' success.

Dan Seguin  38:01

Let's look at this future side of the business here, I want you to take out that crystal ball. In a smart city of tomorrow, the Internet of Things will connect residents, cars, buses, streetlights, and the public transit system. What do you see is your role in this connected city? And what is exciting you the most about this new future?

Jim Pegg  38:27

Well, let's say you know, Envari is and I realize I'm probably repeating myself on this, but we do feel very passionate about this. Envari exists to make our customers successful. So we are constantly looking for new and innovative solutions that can help our customers in new ways, right? I mean, one of my colleagues will always say, he's never gone into a building and not found an opportunity to save energy. And this might be a building that he's been in before and done things and done lots of energy retrofits, but because technology keeps changing, you know, you might go in and do work in the building and do changes to the HVAC system put in lighting control systems. All things Envari has great experience with and save a pile of money for that customer in terms of their energy costs. And maybe five years down the road, 10 years down the road, some new technology will come out related to maybe the lighting or the windows or something else related to the HVAC system where the controls have gotten even more efficient are the units have gotten even more efficient. So when that asset is ready for replacement again, you can really dive in and do more of that deep retrofit. And that all comes out of innovation. I would say our ability to take projects from concept through to completion and offer operate and maintain services, working to ensure customers have options that fit their needs. Connected cities fits in very well with all these sets of expertise. Give you a good example: We have a strong Very strong lighting group who, who I think I think has, you know, recently completed the City of Ottawa lighting conversion Project 55,000 lights in the city of Ottawa. And as you can imagine, those lights are all over the place in the city, they're everywhere, and they have power to them, they have smart nodes on them, those could become a big part of a connected city in the future, it can become a key piece to that puzzle. And our team has done a great job working with the city and, and putting in place a system that will allow some of that enhanced ability in the future. And so I think that piece that really ties our expertise together well, in terms of our understanding of control systems, and even our energy dashboard offering that we have where people can enter, monitor their energy consumption, and energy usage. All those things tie into sort of the world we live in today, where people want information right away. And information right away allows for, you know, adjustment of plans and constantly looking for new and efficient ways to do things. And that's what we're trying to support. We're trying to support our customer success in an ever changing technological world. I think what excites me the most, I'd have to say, what excites me the most is, I think the opportunity that lies in front of all of us right now. I think we're all well aware of the situation  with regards to the environment. And I think something COVID has shown us is with all the vehicles off the road, as an example, we've got now hard data that shows us the impact that can have on the environment. And you know, before it was a theoretical thing, because it wasn't really practical to the go to all of North America, for example, say, hey, can everyone stay home today? You know, anybody the laughed off the curve kind of thing. But now, that's almost happened. And we can look at that and say, Wow, look what that did in the atmosphere. And with all those emissions just shutting off. And that is what it will be like if we you know, convert to that electric vehicle situation, with more and more electric vehicles on the road. So, again, I think what excites me is is that opportunity we have, as a society to have a really significant impact positive impact on our environment, a real turning point to set this planet up nicely for our kids and grandkids.

Dan Seguin  42:35

You talked about the cookie cutter. So I'd like to come back to that. Jim, with so many variables like charging hubs, workplace charging for fleets, multi residential, and electric public transit, I'm assuming there isn't a single cookie cutter solution for all? Based on your experience, can you tell us about the different types and the processes to implement these?

Jim Pegg  43:07

Sure,  as you say, there are many different scenarios. And Envari's approach typically for depends on the type of charge or the type of the scenario we're looking at. But our approach is often to start with what I referred to earlier was our EVRA in electric vehicle readiness assessment. Or essentially, we'll go in, we'll look at a building's capacity, and we'll look at the different options, we'll find out from a customer what it is that they are trying to accomplish, what is their specific need. From there, we'll talk about the different experiences we've had in the different things we've seen that have taken place and other places, again, as I alluded to earlier, so that we can learn from all those experiences and pull that knowledge together. But again, ultimately, it's about finding out from the customer, what exactly it is they're trying to achieve. And then from there, we'll put in front of them a number of different solutions, things that take advantage of different types of charging technology, things that look at different types of metering technology. There's, there's so many different solutions out there right now that you can put together almost like a little puzzle, to really find that perfect fit for an organization in terms of the situation they're trying to resolve. Once we understand those goals, again, longer term possibilities, and we've laid out the options. We're also  in a great situation that we can actually build out that infrastructure. So we can actually  do the build it the design the engineering, build out that infrastructure for the customer and basically right through commissioning. And we also offer an operating maintain type of  solution. So you know, and again, I'll see I'll see this and I know we've said it a couple times here today, but there is no single cookie cutter solution, there just isn't. Even the standards around electric vehicles are ever changing. And the types of chargers I'm sure will change in the future, you know, a great example is some stuff we're seeing out of Toronto where they're taking situations where you wouldn't normally be able to put a fast charger because of maybe capacity constraints. And they're marrying up the charger with battery storage, so that they can you know, from the grids perspective, , you see a normal, moderate size load. But then on the charger side, on the car side, you can get actually a DC fast charge out of it, because you've got it paired with a battery that can discharge when you need it, and then trickle charge when that's not being used. So I mean, innovation, like that's going to go a long way. And, as I said, we're trying to stay on top of all those different innovations that come out to provide those best solutions for our customers.

Dan Seguin  46:02

Cool. Thank you, Jim. With the significant increase of demand on the grid, how important is the management of power to balance the load? What are some of the things you identify with local utilities? And what should they do? And what should they be looking for, to support electrifying transportation today?

Jim Pegg  46:29

Yeah, so I mean, as we've discussed, understanding the charger penetration on the distribution system, predicting when those chargers will be installed, and at what rate. And lastly, understanding the operation of those chargers will be a key piece of the information to support strong system planning. The good news is utilities do a great job of constantly looking at the distribution system, working to understand future demands on the system. This takes us back to the importance of having those conversations with utilities early. And it's important about having the right partner can support you who knows what questions to ask of those utilities.

Dan Seguin  47:12

Jim, can you give me in your opinion about today's big question, are electric utilities and oil companies to industries in unique positions to help build a true EV movement in Canada? The former controls electricity distribution networks in the provinces and municipalities, while the ladder already operates strategically located fuel stations for internal combustion vehicles. What are your thoughts on that?

Jim Pegg  47:45

Well, I would say if you've probably heard me echo this comment throughout in terms of the utility. I absolutely think the answer to the utility piece of that is clear. I think utilities are a key piece of the puzzle. Organizations like Envari that understand utility world, as well as the customer side of the meter. I think I think there are some key pieces there. I think the utilities obviously have a great understanding of the power flow and the impacts of the system. They're the ones that are going to do your technical deep dive to see if you've got, you know, very big bank of large fast chargers in one area, is that going to have any impact on systems power quality and, and things like that in terms of the type of load, you know, things that things that not everyone may think of. So those are, those are some key factors. But I think the utility is absolutely a part of that. Because, you know, at the end of the day, people, myself included, look to the utility for reliable power supply. And as we're converting things like fleets, and even especially transportation fleets that reliable power supply becomes somewhat critical to the economy in the sense that moving people around, you know, transportation move people around, if the lights go out, you want to make sure you've got maybe a good redundant backup supply. Or you have a system that's going to allow for switching the distribution system and maybe even automated switching at some point. So utilities are doing lots of different things. You know, as they as they work to change that ever changing landscape, again, COVID is a great example of that, right with a lot of people working from home. The utilities are, are working hard to make sure that they don't disrupt people that are working from home. Regarding the large oil companies. And I think, I believe, I believe we'll see more and more of those organizations getting involved with EV charging infrastructure. You know, as you notice, gas stations are everywhere and well suited for fast charging. We see more innovation on how to best use those properties. I think the electrification of vehicles is going to drive many changes in that respect.

Dan Seguin  50:04

Okay, Jim, let's close off with rapid fire questions. I hope you're ready.

Jim Pegg  50:09

Okay.

Dan Seguin  50:10

What is your favorite word?

Jim Pegg  50:13

Innovation

Dan Seguin  50:14

What is the one thing you can't live without?

Jim Pegg  50:17

My family

Dan Seguin  50:18

What habits or hobbies have you picked up during shelter in place?

Jim Pegg  50:23

That's a good one. I would say I do a lot more cooking

Dan Seguin  50:26

Okay. If you could have one superpower, what would it be?

Jim Pegg  50:32

Well, you're asking me this during the fall. So I'm going to go with the ability to fly and fly around and see all the nice colors. It's probably my favorite time of year.

Dan Seguin  50:41

Good one, good one. If you could turn back time, and talk to your 18 year old self? What would you tell him?

Jim Pegg  50:51

I think I would say your career path won't be a straight line. But that's okay.

Dan Seguin  50:58

And lastly, what do you currently find most interesting in your sector?

Jim Pegg  51:04

I'm going to tie this back to the innovation. I think the amount of innovation and the number of little things that I see that can have such a huge impact on the environment. And I really do believe there's a big opportunity in front of all of us right now to have a very large lasting impact.

Dan Seguin  51:22

Cool. Well, Jim, we've reached the end of another episode of think energy podcast. Last question for you. How can our listeners learn more about you the company? And how can they connect?

Jim Pegg  51:35

Well, I guess the best way is to check out our website at envari.com, and you can always reach out to myself or called my colleagues on LinkedIn as well. And we're always happy to have the conversations. Sometimes we might go on for too long, because obviously it's a many different topics we're passionate about. So, but always happy to chat and learn from each other.

Dan Seguin  51:59

Okay, again, Jim, thank you so much for joining me today. I hope you had a lot of fun.

Jim Pegg  52:04

Yeah, that was great. Dan, thanks very much. Always, always great to have your conversations with you.

Dan Seguin  52:09

Thank you for joining us today. I truly hope you enjoyed this episode of ThinkEnergy podcast. For past episodes, make sure you visit our website hydroottawa.com/podcast. Lastly, if you found value in this podcast, be sure to subscribe. Anyway, this podcast is a wrap. Cheers, everyone.

The electricity landscape is transforming rapidly as consumer demands evolve, new technologies emerge, and climate change rises in priority. Canada’s electricity industry must remain at the forefront of these changes, but what will be needed to make this possible? What will Canada’s electricity future look like, and who is at the helm of its metamorphosis? To help us better understand this complex topic, we’ve invited a very special guest - the President and CEO of the Canadian Electricity Association, Francis Bradley.   Related Content & Links: Websites: • Canadian Electricity Association: www.electricity.ca • Hydro Ottawa - https://hydroottawa.com/ Social Media: • Twitter: Francis Bradley - @BradBradley • LinkedIn: Francis Bradley - https://www.linkedin.com/in/francis-bradley-3617802a/  

Transcript:

Dan Seguin  00:41

Hey, everyone, welcome back. This is the ThinkEnergy podcast. The electric power grid has been called the world's largest machine and the greatest engineering achievement of the 20th century. No matter where you live, the electricity grid is the machine that connects us to one another. In a modern world, the affordability and reliability of the country's electricity grid can be directly tied to its prosperity, stability, and the health of its citizens. Canada has been very fortunate. We have one of the most reliable electrical grids in the world. But Canadians are demanding more. They want to interact and connect with the grid like never before. They want their devices to use and produce electricity seamlessly. They want home generation, cleaner buildings, an EV transportation infrastructure, they want clean air and less pollution. Today we're going to talk about Canada's expansive electricity grid. From our humble beginnings in 1883, when Canada's parliament building in Ottawa became one of the first government buildings in the world to be outfitted with incandescent lighting, to speculating about what the world holds for Canada's electricity system. It's all on today's program. The electricity landscape is transforming thanks to more complex customer demands, and rapidly evolving technologies. In short, Canada's electricity industry must be at the forefront of this change or risk being left behind. But is it that simple? The electric grid is more than just infrastructure. It takes a village to run including asset owners, manufacturers, service providers, and government officials at the federal, provincial, and local levels. That must all work together. So here's today's big question. What does Canada's electricity future look like? And who is at the helm of its metamorphosis? To help us better understand a topic as big as Canada itself, we invited a very special guest, the President and CEO of the Canadian Electricity Association, Francis Bradley. Francis, perhaps you can start by telling us a bit about yourself, what drew you to your current role and what the Canadian electricity Association does?

Francis Bradley  03:20

Well, it's a long and winding road. You know, I was always interested in energy when I was a kid. But I studied political science. And I worked in the oil and gas sector and I worked in the banking sector. Before just by happenstance, I landed at CEA and that was 34 years ago. I've worked in every role at CEA from that time, from communications to member services to cybersecurity emergency preparedness, US affairs, I've lobbied up on Parliament Hill. And I was even acting treasurer and Secretary for the Association for a time. So what CEA is and what CEA does is we're the association that is the voice of Canada's electricity industry. Our members are the 40 largest electricity companies in Canada. So it's the companies that generate, transmit, distribute, and provide customer service to electricity customers, literally from coast to coast to coast. Our numbers are in every province and in all three territories.

Dan Seguin  04:31

How would you describe the future of Canada's electricity sector and its importance to Canada's economic future and prosperity?

Francis Bradley  04:39

Well, we are living in a time when we have a government in Ottawa that is committed to a netzero GHG emissions by 2050. There's generally a consensus throughout society that that the future will be a future that will be a decarbonized future. And so that's a future that will be electric, frankly, you know, the only way we're going to be able to get to that low carbon future will be by increasing the use of electricity, frankly, in as many places as we can, the obvious ones are transportation. But you know, to be able to get really, really significant carbon reductions over the long term, we're going to have to look at electrifying not just transportation, but industrial process and heating, ventilation, air conditioning. And then when it you know, when it comes to transportation, it's going to have to be more than just, you know, electric cars, it's going to have to be really transportation across the board. But, you know, electricity has been the great enabler of modern society, and it's only going to continue in the future to be that critical, and that important piece that enabler of the future, because that future is going to be even more electric. You know, we're an industry that employs almost 100,000, Canadians, everything from lineworkers, to helicopter pilots to control room specialists. So you know, it's an industry that represents some very diverse skill sets. But that's going to be changing even more so in the future. Right. Even today, Dan, you know, there is this massive expansion because of the increase in the use of digital technologies in our space. And that's only going to increase as we head towards 2050. That there will always be line workers to make sure that the the electricity gets to the customers, but increasingly, the kinds of specialties that companies require, to be able to provide the kind of services that customers are going to need in the future means that that profile is going to change. And you know, what, we're going to start looking more and more like high tech companies than then strictly sort of building an engineering companies, you know, not to pander to the audience. But your, your company, I think, was the first company to introduce, what was it? A smart speaker skill. You know, speaking of AI, right? We're, I think you guys were the first out of the gate with your own smart speaker skill that you developed for Alexa and for Google Assistant. But you know, that that's, that really is just the very beginning of what that future is going to look like today. We use a little bit of what what is, you know, sort of the beginnings of AI in our homes to control some of our electricity use. But you know, cache your mind 30 years into the future? 2050? What is that going to look like? How much AI is going to be involved in the development of and implementation of a smarter energy system and a smarter electricity system?

Dan Seguin  08:07

Great segue to the question, what kinds of innovation are leading the current transformation of the electricity industry here in Canada? And can you give us some examples of other countries that are innovating their energy sectors in profound ways?

Francis Bradley  08:25

You know, the innovation that we see in the electricity sector is probably the thing that I find most exciting about the industry, the electricity industry, right now, it is endlessly fascinating, because it is so fast moving. When I joined the sector, 34 years ago, I never would have imagined that we would be one of the sectors that was at the leading edge of the development of new innovative solutions, not just to the, you know, the production and transportation of electricity, but to energy use, writ large, we see innovation, transforming the industry. And we see it coming from, as I say, from from within the industry, as well. So, you know, as one of my colleagues likes to point out that well, a lot of innovation takes place in Silicon Valley. And a lot of innovation takes place, you know, in the IT world, there's also a heck of a lot of innovation that we see taking place here, in in Canada - and within the electricity sector itself. We see people that are on the absolute leading edge of so many innovations with respect to the generation the use of electricity, the implementation, your company, for example, with your MiGen transactive grid is something that, you know, people all across North America and probably around the world are watching very carefully to see to see how that is is is rolling out and how it's being implemented. But you know, we have Worldwide leaders on the use of electricity, electricity transformation, electricity transportation and electrification of transportation, we have some absolute world leaders here in Canada, and, you know, go all the way up to the top of the value chain with respect to generation, and we see incredible innovation taking place, both in the sort of the traditional side of electricity generation, whether it's trying to figure out how hydro dams can be more efficient. And how we can extract more megawatts that have the same amount of water, to looking at how we capture carbon, which is an issue of, you know, in, in some jurisdictions, in this country, where, you know, the options for generating electricity may not be quite as, as numerous as here in central Canada. But you know, we have the the first ever utility scale carbon capture and storage facility, the world's first was built here in Canada, in Saskatchewan, of all places, you know, we see a great deal of innovation in that space as well. But you know, we're also a sector that's looking out and looking out around the world, and seeing where other new approaches are being developed and what can be adapted and used for our jurisdictions. Electricity transportation, for example, a great deal of innovation taking place in in Scandinavia. And so there is a lot of interest, both in terms of the approaches from a technical standpoint, but there in particular, from also from a policy standpoint,  what are the policy innovations that are being put in place, that are that are that are moving them far more quickly into an electric transportation future. And then Jeez, you know, you can even look at the emerging hydrogen economy and new technologies that are that are being developed and implemented, South Korea would be an example where we're, we're seeing, you know, 200 megawatt plant, a hydrogen fuel cell plant, that is that is being built that again, will be a world beater. So, you know, we're seeing innovation right here in Ottawa, and we're seeing innovation all around the world. And as a sector, we're trying to figure out, Okay, how do we take the best of all of those, whether it's technical innovation, or or regulatory innovation? And how do we look at implementing it to the benefit of customers here in Canada,

Dan Seguin  12:42

Over the last number of months, many Canadians have transformed their homes into classrooms, workspaces, meeting spaces and care centers. How has our industry come together to tackle this pandemic challenge? As an industry, what's been our role?

Francis Bradley  13:01

There are a number of companies here in Canada and in the United States, that had pandemics as one of their planning criterias, when they were doing emergency planning and emergency preparedness. So nobody could have predicted exactly how the pandemic itself would have rolled out. But companies all across North American, you know, and elsewhere, had been planning for this kind of a contingency, this kind of a challenge. And so, that's one of the interesting things, you know, if we, if we look back over, you know, the past several months, one of the really interesting things is that we did not see a failure of the electricity system as a result of COVID-19. In fact, you know, we've worked very hard with other sectors as well, we didn't see failures in critical infrastructure as a result of COVID-19. Now, it still created some really significant challenges to the customers, to our employees, to the to the public writ large. But this is a sector that had been preparing for a challenge. I mean, you know, we prepare for for storms, we prepare for potential cyber attacks, and we prepare for pandemics. And so we were able to very quickly pivot and seek to to to meet the challenges. And you know, we did it on a cooperative and a collaborative basis. We saw pretty significant cooperation within the electricity sector here in Canada, where companies were learning from each other. The CEOs of companies all across this country were getting together on conference calls every single week for the first three months of COVID-19. Why were they doing that? Well, they were talking about what ideas people had and what things that they've been using. And really what were the most effective practices to make sure that the customer was being taken care of, and the public was being taken care of, and the the employees were being taken care of. And so we saw this massive exchange of best practices among the CEOs here within Canada. We saw it between Canada and the United States, because, you know, we're part of a shared North American electricity grid. And we saw a level of cooperation and collaboration between the electricity sector, and governments that, frankly, was surprising. We work well, in most circumstances, but you know, people really stepped up to make sure that they would, they were able to do everything that could be done to make sure that we were going to be able to continue to operate everything from, you know, assisting industry to access personal protective equipment, to helping us address issues, even as it may sound mundane, but it's a challenge sometimes, to getting people across the Canada-US border, for the purposes of maintenance. So, you know, it was a whole of industry, and really a whole of the economy approach to this. And it started right at the very top, from the the presidents of the companies constantly, you know, discussing with each other about what is the most effective practice to everybody within the companies themselves, pulling together to see how we can work as effectively as possible. And, you know, as I said earlier, the bottom line is, we kept the lights on for the customers, and we were in and we were also very sensitive to some of the challenges that they were facing. But you know, the bottom line is reliability was not impacted, and the customer was not left in the dark.

Dan Seguin  16:52

Will the electricity sector be assuming a bigger role in energy consumption through electrification, with infrastructure having to withstand increasing stresses, such as extreme weather events, and the incorporation of new loads? Is the sector creating resiliency strategies?

Francis Bradley  17:13

Resiliency is at the heart of what this sector is all about. And that's been the case, really, since the sort of the inception of the electricity sector. When we first began using electricity as a, as a as an energy form and as a commodity. It was important, but you know, initially with street lighting, it wasn't critical, and it wasn't a lifeline. It's a lifeline today, right. And so the criticality of electricity to individuals in their homes, to businesses, to services across the country. It is the critical infrastructure sector that all others depend upon. You know, if you look at the importance of all of the different infrastructures, all critical infrastructure is a is vitally important, certainly, but almost all of them cannot run if they don't have basic electricity. So how are we going to make sure that the history that we've had of resilience is maintained as we move into a future that is going to, as you say, we will have increasing stresses, we're going to have more extreme weather events. And so how do we go about that? Well, what it's going to take is it's going to take redoubling of our efforts, it means we are already building things more to higher standards, and we were previously but it means we're going to have to put significantly more investments into the system. The Conference Board of Canada estimated that, that our electricity needs in a 20 year period from 2010 to 2030, would be about $350 billion. But, you know, that was a like for like it didn't take into consideration both electrification and climate mitigation, for example. There's a new study that's been done that tries to get a handle on what kind of investments are going to be required so that we can meet those challenges. And the latest estimate is it's going to take an investment of about $1.7 trillion by 2050, to ensure that our electricity infrastructure can meet the challenges of both the electrification and climate mitigation. You know, as a result, what we see is already today, six of the top 10 infrastructure projects right now are in the electricity sector. And you know, where were that will continue well into the future that illiteracy will be key to both the the investments that are taking place in our core infrastructure. But they will be building an ever more secure and ever more reliable system into the future. But it's not easy. You know, there are challenges, there's always challenges when you're building infrastructure. There is public opposition to new infrastructure projects, and, and at times this lack of government policy certainty and predictability in terms of moving some of those projects forward. And so, you know, we're working with governments, and we're working with organizations like the Canada infrastructure bank, so that we can ensure that companies have access to the capital that's needed to replace the aging infrastructure and infrastructure that needs to be upgraded to meet those those challenges of the future.

Dan Seguin  20:52

What are some of the challenges and opportunities that sectors are seeing as it relates to the impact of climate change, adopting renewable, clean energy and moving away from fossil fuels?

Francis Bradley  21:04

Well, you know, to begin with where we're starting from is, we're starting from a place that is the envy, frankly, have a lot of other jurisdictions. compared to most other countries, our sector is already clean. So we're starting from a relatively clean sector to begin with. It's one of the cleanest electricity sectors in the world, we have the advantage of remarkably low carbon electricity grid, and it's been getting cleaner. So from 2000 to 2017, there's been a reduction in our sectors carbon dioxide, emissions of 42%. So more than 80% of the electricity in in Canada now comes from non emitting sources. And so we continue to focus on decarbonisation. The targets that I'd mentioned earlier, are going to mean that decarbonisation and further electrification are going to absolutely be required if we're going to meet our climate challenges of the future. So, you know, among those challenges that the that are out there, achieving a 90%, or greater net zero emissions in electricity in Canada? What's that going to require? Well, we have to recognize that there's regional constraints, there's technology limitations, there's system level planning that needs to be done so that we can ensure safety, we can ensure reliability, and most of all, that we can ensure affordability for Canadians. And so that's that's a big challenge. You know, Canada should continue to enable investments in clean energy. But the federal government needs to make a concerted effort to leverage the already clean energy portfolio of our sector to decarbonize other sectors of the economy. And, you know, I mentioned earlier I mentioned transportation. That's a big one. And I think that is the next one. You know, and a lot of people think that electrification is about the growth of electric vehicles, but it's going to be a lot more than that: mass transit, a heavy duty trucking, I mean, those are going to be significant into the future. But also, you know, we looked at a study by the electric power Research Institute, they noted that electrification in the US could increase their demand anywhere from 24 to 52%. We've seen studies in Canada that suggests that demand for electricity may double or even triple if we move forward and and begin to reach our 2050 targets.

Dan Seguin  23:37

This next one is a file you're quite familiar with: What are your thoughts on the industry's level of preparedness and response to cyber security threats? Does the CEA play a role in the security of this sector?

Francis Bradley  23:55

You know, I've been involved in cybersecurity issues for more than 22 years. In fact, it's been one of the most interesting files that I've worked on at CEA, I got involved in this space during y2k, which I think some of your listeners probably weren't around for but the you know, as we were heading towards towards the year 2000, we were preparing for, you know, the potential for for cyber disruptions. But that gave us as a sector, a leg up, to begin to understand, as we kind of got into the new millennium, what the future cyber challenges were going to look like. And as a sector, you know, the electricity sector really has been on the front line of this and has been leading a lot of the work with respect to cyber resilience and cybersecurity. Now that's out of necessity, you know, as the you know, as I often say, electricity is the infrastructure that every other infrastructure relies on. And so this is the one that is, is the one that must not fail. cyber attacks are real. You know, we've used to be able to say, no cyberattack has ever resulted in the loss of electricity service to a customer. We can't say that. But five years ago, there was a cyber attack in the Ukraine, that some of my colleagues in the in the electricity sector cyberspace refer to as when we cross the Rubicon, this is the first time that a cyber attack actually resulted in the loss of electricity to customers. So you know, the sector has been working incredibly hard on ensuring that we're ready for cyber threats. We work on a collaborative basis across North America, but specifically within the Canadian sector, you know, we've been organizing our members, and we've been working with federal officials, Canadian federal officials, for two decades in this space. And frankly, the the level of collaboration in the models that we've been using, have been now replicated in other sectors as well, for for both the approach to specifically to addressing and preparing for cyber threats, and the collaboration that is absolutely required between the different players, and the government. And to top it off, every two years, we do a major tabletop exercise, it's called the Grid X series of exercises. So we just finished Grid X 4 last year. And it's a North American wide exercise a tabletop exercise on security, but the core of it is a cybersecurity exercise. And so it's something that every pretty much every electricity company, across North America, thousands of companies and 10s of thousands of individuals participate in every other year on a North American basis, in addition to what the companies do themselves, so it is very much front and center for our members.

Dan Seguin  27:12

Okay, Francis, in the very near future, more and more customers will have the ability to sell and trade energy, how will this impact the traditional utility-customer relationship and the stability of the grid?

Francis Bradley  27:28

That's a relationship that's changing. Absolutely. You know, for a hundred years, the Canadian electricity companies had a very simple mandate, provide reliable and safe power to all customers keep the lights on. And that's exactly what they did. But they did it in a in a very linear manner. Electricity went from generation through transmission through distribution to the end customer went from one end to the other end. Now, the model is changing. And I know you've talked about this on a number of previous podcasts. But you know, today, utilities are expected to in addition to just making sure the lights stay on, they're expected to provide a broad range of energy services, new technology, renewable sources of energy, consumer convenience, and personalization are now the drivers have great innovation. Proactive communication capabilities are endless. You know, system outage updates are communicated via texts, linking to outages on maps, pending weather challenges are communicated via Twitter, you know, that whole, not just how electricity is produced, but, but how the companies interact with the customer is changing, and it will continue to change. And so how do we prepare for the grid demands of the future? You know, we've moved from a one size fits all electricity offering, and we're going to be moving into a future state where electricity solutions will be highly customized, to meet the diverse household, business and community needs where end-use consumers are going to be empowered to adopt a growing range of innovative energy solutions. And so that not only what  is the sort of supply chain changing, and in some ways it's becoming, as it is with some of the projects of your company, Dan - transactive and two-way, but also the expectations are changing, along with this pretty significant change of of technology that is underpinning all of it. And you know, we we talk about AI: What, what role will AI have in that future transactive relationship between the electricity company and the customer? It's still, you know, an open question, and it's in the middle of pretty significant evolution as we speak,

Dan Seguin  29:49

What will be the role of distributed energy in Canada's future? And what are some of the benefits Canadians will see as we move toward distributed and sustainable energy.

Francis Bradley  30:01

So the role of distributed energy in Canada's future is a really interesting question. You know, I am sometimes asked by people, whether or not the future is going to be a distributed energy future, or the future is going to be a centralized, large generation future. And my answer is, it is going to have to be both. If you look at, you know, the the predictions of what the requirement for electricity is going to be in 2050. In a deep decarbonized future, we're going to need every kilowatt that we can get every low carbon, no carbon kilowatt that we can get. So distributed energy is going to be absolutely essential. And it's going to be a key piece of what that future is going to look like. So, you know, the most fundamental of transformations is this emergence of an ever more diverse, distributed and technology enabled electricity system that is developing, and it is happening in parallel, and it will, I believe, complement, the central generation grid that we've been used to in the future, one is not going to replace the other. But you know, what, we're seeing CEA members who are working to modernize the electricity system to enable integration of technologies that deliver customer benefits. Governments and the regulatory agencies also have a major role in fostering that innovation. And, you know, how does risk-taking in this space evolve? Well, that raises regulatory questions as well. So, you know, we're working with federal and provincial policymakers, we're working with regulators, we're looking to encourage greater receptivity to innovation-enabling investments. And, you know, based on current trends worldwide, the electricity industry expects significant growth, not just electric vehicles that I talked about, but battery storage, and distributed generation, new investments in emerging technologies, even things like just small modular reactors, which will be part and parcel of that distributed energy future are gonna make a significant difference to the delivery of energy services in the decades ahead.

Dan Seguin  32:18

As a result of extensive consultations your association has conducted, what are some of the pressing issues from your members in the electricity sector? Are you seeing any patterns?

Francis Bradley  32:29

The most pressing industry pressing issues for our members in the electricity sector? That question, of course, would be answered very differently if we spoke nine months ago. Because so much of the focus recently is on COVID-19. But, you know, one steps back one of the on ongoing themes that we hear from our members, is the need for a national strategy to guide electrification. It remains a key policy objective that we've got, we talk about electrification, but having a national vision and a national strategy is one of the things that we're hearing consistently across the sector, we need to quantify the scope and the timing of new generation requirements, we need to determine the most efficient electrification opportunities by region, we need to identify what are the required policy and investment tools. So you know, we need a strategic national strategy on electrification to move that forward. But we need regulatory alignment, you know, and there is there's a fair amount of work here. And it isn't just Canada, US, it's within Canada as well. You know, we we don't have regulatory consistency, across jurisdictions and amongst different governments. And then, you know, when speaking about the regulatory environment, it is challenging. Today already, you know, at the federal level alone, the electricity sector is affected by over 90 different regulations that are either enforced or pending. And so, you know, this is a very challenging regulatory environment within which our members operate and are attempting to roll out the infrastructure that's going to be required to meet those future needs. And then finally, you know, what, we need to encourage modernization as a result of that regulatory framework. So, you know, we're operating in a regulatory framework in most provinces, that was developed in the 1950s or 1960s. It was a regulatory model that was developed for the world where electricity went one way from generation to the end customer. And it isn't yet able to take into account and able to promote, and foster innovation, because that's not what they expected the electricity sector to do in the 1960s. But it's what we're going to have to do in the future.

Dan Seguin  34:58

The CEA conducts an annual National Survey to take a pulse of key views on the part of electricity consumers year over year, is customer satisfaction improving? What do customers want from their energy company?

Francis Bradley  35:18

That's a great question. You know, we've been conducting research on customer satisfaction and customer attitudes for more than three decades. In fact, it was the first project I worked on, when I joined CEA. So you know, the focus of the survey, it's evolved over time, but the focus continues to be on the satisfaction of the customer. So our general satisfaction: it's essentially been consistent since 2016, with nearly three and four reporting being satisfied with their, their electricity company, we're seeing this trend nationally, and it's been a slow and steady increase. In the 2019 survey, our Customer Satisfaction Index scores have improved, and perceptions on price are holding steady. And we can do a number of things in this study as well, we do something called a net promoter score, which is also another indicator, it has risen over the past two years. And the analysis shows that this is both due to an improvement in the political and economic environments, but as well also as a result of utility action. So generally, customers, what do they want? Well, they want the lights to be on, and they want their bills down. You know, those are theprincipal concerns, even as, as we've been talking about all of the changing future orientations, and all of  the massive change and innovation that we're seeing in the industry, the fundamentals remain the same. And that's reliability and price for the customer. So so far, we've seen what we've seen is that customers are not keen on extras for things, you know, like new technologies, around outage communication, via text messages, and so on. They expect those things to take place, and they expect us to evolve those new technologies, not something that they think they should be necessarily paying more for.

Dan Seguin  37:14

Okay, how do we stack up to sectors like banking when it comes to innovation?

Francis Bradley  37:20

Yeah, you know, it's I think it's a challenge, that that that we see, because the environment within which we operate, it is changing, It is, you know, I think it's probably we only have mentioned banking, banking isn't a good example, because banking differs from the electricity sector in that the customer has a choice. And so, you know, how does, how does one bank differentiate itself from another and it needs to, but, you know, as we move into a world where customers, may in the future have the opportunity to increasingly self generate, and look at storage opportunities, and so on. I think that's why we're seeing more innovation on the customer side, because the sector does realize that well, you may, you may be a regulated utility, with a defined service territory, there is competition coming in the future, it just looks differently.

Dan Seguin  38:23

Francis, how do you help future proof, large utilities? Is it through collaboration and sustainable energy? Can you maybe expand on why this is important?

Francis Bradley  38:36

You know, that's, that's a kind of a cool question. So how do you future proof large utilities? I ask it a slightly different way. And that is, how do you future proof any kind of a company, it may be a little bit more challenging, the larger the company, but the challenge is still the same. Right. And that is the tendency for companies and tendency for organizations tendency for governments the tendency for, for individuals, to, you know, to be complacent, and to believe that the current reality will be the reality that you always live with. And so how do you get past that? And I think, you know, that's, I think that's the heart of your question, right? Is how do you, you know, to future proof means you need to recognize that the future is going to be different than than what today is in there for you need to look at getting ahead of the curve. And so how do you do that? Yeah, absolutely. Collaboration is a critical piece. And it's absolutely essential. But you know, one of the things that we've done at CEA is we developed something we called it the the national emerging Issues committee. We brought together from all of our member companies, the large companies, the small companies, the municipally owned ones The Crown corporations, the investor owned companies from all across the country, the individuals who had responsibility for the strategic planning and the future planning for those companies, and we brought them together and had them go through an exercise to develop a series of scenarios of what the future would look like, for our member companies. And so we really was a bit of an exercise at trying to help collectively future proof some of our member companies. And what we came out with was four possible futures of what the industry may look like by 2040. And the whole purpose of that was so that companies could try and figure out what they need to do to be able to be successful in any of those futures. Because, you know, we weren't trying to predict what the future was going to look like, but what we wanted to do was develop scenarios that our member companies, the individual companies, could stress test their plans against. And so you know, that was the whole purpose of that exercise. And, you know, yeah, yes. Why is it important to try and future proof? Well, you know, there's a lot of companies that were once incredibly successful, that didn't anticipate the future. And we want to make sure that that doesn't happen to our member companies, we don't want to be the direct film, or the Kodak, you know, of the electricity space. You know, you remember Kodak, they used to be the preeminent and predominant company in in a photographic space. But, they didn't necessarily future proof. And there's a lot of examples of companies that were incredibly successful and owned their space, but didn't anticipate what the future would look like.

Dan Seguin  41:59

The CEA has launched a national campaign to recognize July 10th as national lineworker Appreciation Day. Why was this so important for the CEA?

Francis Bradley  42:10

We didn't, unfortunately, we only do one day a year, because every single day, line workers across Canada work to keep the lights flowing to our homes, to our schools, or hospitals, our businesses. You know, these are the highly trained men and women who work on installing and maintaining their complex electricity grids across cities, across provinces across territories, they're often faced with extreme working conditions, line workers are trained to work efficiently, safely, and collaboratively to keep those lights on. In appreciation for their commitment to serve their fellow Canadians, we continue to, to recognize and to support these men and women by celebrating national line worker appreciation day every year. And you know, kind of step back and think about it after a particularly bad storm, or, you know, other other events. Sometimes I scratch my head and wonder if you know, one day is enough.

Dan Seguin  43:05

The next one might be a bit polarizing: Canadians from coast to coast to coast, pay a different price on their electricity bill, what factors determine the price Canadians pay for electricity based on the province they live in?

Francis Bradley  43:21

So the factors that determine what you pay for electricity, first and foremost, is all about what resources and natural resources are available in the jurisdiction that you're in. To begin with, that's the fundamental now there's lots of other other things that come into play, of course, but at a very basic level, it begins with, what resources do you have, where you are? And how far are you from the resources that are needed to produce electricity. You know, when you look at jurisdictions, in some of the jurisdictions in Western Canada, you know, Saskatchewan and Alberta, for example, they don't have a lot of falling water. And so they don't have the ability that other places in the country do to produce electricity through through hydro resources. So, you know, to begin with, it's first the, the resource endowment of the of the area that you're in. And so, you know, every province because it's provincially based, but every province, it has its own mix of renewable and non renewable electricity resources. And it's a combination of those, that determine what the prices of electricity as is generated. And then on top of that, you know, the, you know, we got need to build infrastructure, equipment, How far away are the lines, what is the age of the infrastructure, and so all of these things come into play. So, you know, the price of electricity is is influenced by both fixed and variable costs. The price of building transmission wires would be an example of a fixed cost, while the price of fuel used for generation is variable if you need fuel to produce your electricity, right, so that changes as well. So, you know, fundamentally access to natural resources and generation facilities determine the electricity costs alongside with population density. So, you know, in remote areas, more infrastructure is required to bring electricity to homes, businesses and communities. And so that infrastructure has to be shared among fewer customers. So that comes into play as well.

Dan Seguin  45:35

Oh, key Francis, how about we close off with rapid fire questions? Are you ready?

Francis Bradley  45:42

Rapid fire questions? Okay.

Dan Seguin  45:45

What is your favorite word?

Francis Bradley  45:47

Family.

Dan Seguin  45:49

What is the one thing you can't live without?

Francis Bradley  45:52

You're kidding. Really? Electricity!

Dan Seguin  45:55

What is something that challenges you?

Francis Bradley  45:58

Oh, every Sunday: that weekly puzzle on NPR.

Dan Seguin  46:01

If you could have one, just one superpower. What would it be?

Francis Bradley  46:06

Time Travel!

Dan Seguin  46:08

If you could turn back the time and talk to your 18 year old self? What would you tell them?

Francis Bradley  46:13

How about relax and enjoy the ride?

Dan Seguin  46:16

What do you currently find most interesting in your sector?

Francis Bradley  46:21

Oh, that's easy. That's the really, really smart people that I get to work with that inspire me every single day.

Dan Seguin  46:28

Well, Francis, we reached the end of another episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. Here's my last question for you. How can our listeners learn more about your association? About you? How can they better connect?

Francis Bradley  46:43

Alright, well, my podcast, which is on the future of electricity is called the Flux Capacitor. That's one way. You can reach us through our website at electricity.ca. And on Twitter, my Twitter handle is @BradBradley.

Dan Seguin  47:03

Again, thank you so much for joining me today. I hope you had a lot of fun. Cheers. Thank you for joining us today. I truly hope you enjoyed this episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. For past episodes, make sure you visit our website hydroottawa.com/podcast. Lastly, if you found value in this podcast, be sure to subscribe.

Waterpower is Canada’s most abundant source of clean and renewable electricity. In fact, because of this, Canada is the second largest generator of hydroelectricity in the world. So, what’s next for Canada’s waterpower industry? Is there untapped potential? What are the plans for growth nationally and what influence does it have on the world stage? Our special guest, Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin, President and CEO of WaterPower Canada, helps us demystify the water industry.

Related Content & Links:

• https://hydroottawa.com/
• Websites:
  • waterpowercanada.ca
  • Twitter: @WaterPowerCA
  • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/canadian-hydropower-association/

 

Transcript:

Dan Seguin  00:02

Hey, everyone, welcome back. This is the ThinkEnergy podcast, one of Canada's oldest hydroelectric generating station was commissioned right here in the nation's capital in 1891. Located in the heart of downtown Ottawa, is a stone throws away from the parliament building. Chaudière Falls is still providing clean and renewable electricity today, nearly 130 years after it went into service. While hydroelectricity first powered our great country, it was fossil fuel that became the dominant energy source of the 20th century. But it seems that what was old is new again. And cleaner electricity is making a comeback in a big way. I'm convinced it will be the energy source that powers the 21st century. Because Canada is a water rich country, it's not surprising that water power is Canada's most abundant source of clean, and renewable electricity. It provides more than 60% of our country's total electricity, with an installed capacity soon exceeding 85,000 megawatts. As such, Canada is the second largest generator of hydroelectricity in the world after China. To reduce Canada's emissions of greenhouse gases that cause climate change, we must strategically reduce our reliance on fossil fuels and increase the amount of electricity we produce from non-emitting and renewable energy resources. Hydroelectricity produces no air pollution, and has ultra-low greenhouse gas emissions, especially for those stations that are run of the river. From a full lifecycle assessment basis, Canada's hydro power is amongst the lowest emitting resources available and like Chaudière falls proves hydro power assets can last well over 100 years if properly maintained, making them very cost effective long term investments. Canada is already a leader in hydro power generation, but it has a potential to more than double its current capacity, thanks to its abundant, untapped water power resource. Contrary to popular opinion, Canadian hydro power is cost competitive, which helps keep rates low for customers. In fact, provinces with the highest hydro power installed capacity tend to have the lowest electricity costs. So here's today's big question: What's next for Canada's water power industry? What are the plans for growth nationally? And what influence does it have on the world stage? Our special guest today will help demystify the water industry: Waterpower Canada's president and CEO, Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin. Perhaps you can start by telling us a bit about yourself, what drew you to your current role, and how you became an advocate for renewable energy, particularly waterpower.

Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin  04:04

I think what really brought me to waterpower is a mixed bag of training and experiences. I specialized in environmental law at school. So my passion has always been sustainability and environmental protection. And after graduating, I had the opportunity to work for justice for a bit mostly focusing on mining projects. But that kind of took me to the next you know, job which was to work for Hatch, an international engineering firm, where I worked on international project projects across the world as an environmental and social impact management specialist. So that's where I got my hands dirty in terms of really seeing how projects are done from start to finish the whole pre-feasibility to commissioning. So that was very, very good, a great experience over about four years. And then I kind of switched a little bit - wanting to have a broader approach to sustainability. So not just look at projects, but also look at corporate sustainability. How do you integrate that thinking into your processes, the way you work with your employees? And also how do you continue to obviously implement the best procedures on projects. And so I looked at other opportunities. And I was then hired by what was then called the Canadian Hydropower Association, which we rebranded about two years ago as Waterpower Canada. So that was my first real exposure to the water power industry. Now, about seven years ago, I'd say, which, you know, time flies, as they say, but it's been a great experience, because it really allowed me to bring my legal experience and my passion for sustainability in my role as an advocate for renewable energy.

Dan Seguin  06:01

What is the mission of Waterpower Canada? And what kind of initiatives is it pursuing to advance and support hydro power, nationally, and even internationally,

Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin  06:13

So we are a national trade association. So our mission as an organization is really to promote and actively advocate for hydropower. That means, you know, promoting the existing assets, the existing fleet, promoting the attributes, what it does for Canadians what it does for the country in general, and also promoting future developments, be it sometimes reinvestment in the fleet through refurbishment redevelopments, or, of course, as well, Greenfield, Greenfield projects. So nationally that's really our focus is to bring awareness, I always say my job is 50%, government relations, 50% communications, and they tend to marry in the sense that you're always communicating in this field, right, you're always trying to bring more knowledge and more awareness about your sector, no matter who you're talking to. But you aim it a different way, depending on kind of where you focus, what you focus on. And then internationally, we definitely focus more and more on, on working with the US in terms of leveraging the clean exports of hydro power to the US. It's not a new thing. You know, it's been ongoing for decades. And it's been a huge source of wealth for Canada and for certain provinces in particular. But it is something that we see as an opportunity in the future because the US has a pretty emission intensive electricity sector. And they're looking at decarbonizing similar to us, right, but they don't have necessarily all the attributes ready to go that that we can offer in Canada, and we are very connected north-south. So it is it is almost a self-fulfilling prophecy in the sense of being able to send us clean electrons across the border, without too many too many hurdles. So we were also kind of deploying that kind of efforts internationally.

Dan Seguin  08:15

In Canada, we know about the environmental benefits of hydro power, in terms of renewable energy, cleaner air, and less pollution, overall, perhaps less known lies under the surface, and the impact of these facilities, particularly turbines can have on fish and other water species. Can you talk a bit about what the industry is doing to contribute to the recovery of endangered, threatened and other species at risk?

Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin  08:47

The first thing I'll say is that our sector has been around for more than a century. So any impact that we have is very well understood, and has been very well studied. And there's been a lot of research going into avoidance or when you cannot avoid an impact, mitigation, right, which is the rule for sure. So in terms of fish habitats, in particular, I'll give you an example which is something I've learned through my career working within the water power sector. And it's quite interesting and it happens across the nation right from coast to coast to coast, but you have requirements that are set by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and also of course, by your local regulating bodies, that you know, operate at different levels. And those you know, dictate kind of the measures that you have to put in place and in many cases when you have a hydro site, runoff river or reservoir, you tend to have offsets and you know protocols or fish habitat banking is what we call and without getting into the you know the terminology of you know, that we use with an industry, but through those techniques, you actually have a great opportunity to operate a site that now has a greater fish population that what you found when you actually started with your Greenfield project, and that has been seen and studied. And there's been a lot of, you know, case studies presented on this, where, you know, different fish species actually respond very well to habitat banking. And, they're thriving, more than, you know, maybe the conditions that they were having before the hydro site was developed. So it's that that's just an example. And of course, it's a great success story, but it's not to overshadow the fact that, yes, we operate in water, we do have impacts, and there's always, and they will always be room for improvements. And so a lot of research above and beyond this protocols and, and systems that we implement. A lot of research is actually invested in making sure that the first rule is to avoid impacts, and you don't turn to mitigation right away.

Dan Seguin  11:10

When you envision the future of hydro power, what do you see? And what are some of the most exciting things that the industry is doing? Or that Waterpower Canada is spearheading?

Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin  11:23

So, you know, with COVID-19, of course, the landscape is different now. But I'm going to put that aside, and for the only reason that we don't know what's going to happen, right, we don't know what's going to happen post COVID the ramifications how long it's going to last. So kind of crystal balling the future on this is a bit of a risky exercise. But if I if I said that crisis aside, what was really exciting, just you know, over the past few years, and what we were lining up and gearing up to, to work on was the huge wave of refurbishment and redevelopment. The average age of a hydropower facility in Canada is 50 years. And that's about the same in the US, right? Our assets are what we call generational assets. Which is great, because you can refurbish them, you know, throughout generations, and it's yours to keep for decades and decades and decades. But what it also means is that every once in a while you have to invest, and inject those capital reinvestments so that you can continue to operate your fleet. And also, you know, modernize the fleet. So that's very exciting. Because no matter what happens with the global pandemic situation,  this is going to happen, I don't know if it's going to happen within the next year, or now within the next five years. But what it means is that it's going to inject billions in the Canadian economy, it's going to sustain a lot of jobs. And it's going to help us decarbonize, you know, further, we already have about an 80%, non-emitting electricity grid, thanks to Hydro and other renewables, and thanks to nuclear, but of course, there's more room for improvement. And so anything you can do to leverage your existing fleet and just pull out those clean electrons  is good news in a very exciting.

Dan Seguin  13:15

What do you think is the biggest myth or misunderstanding about water power?

Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin  13:20

You know, I, there are quite a few. So but it raises my blood pressure when I think about all of them, so I'll just focus on one. But what I what I hear often and above and beyond the lack of knowledge, generally speaking, I think it's always mind boggling to hear that people don't necessarily know or understand the role that waterpark plays in our in our generation mix. But above and beyond that, I think that the biggest misunderstanding is the fact that people really assume that hydro is an old, dusty, non-innovative technology, because we've been around for so long. And it is actually really, really incorrect because we've been around for so long because we are extremely innovative because we are extremely fine tuning research. Every corner that we take, right, and if we weren't innovative, and if we weren't investing in digitalization and new systems, we wouldn't have survived. And so I always say that the original clean tech in Canada is water power, and is the most enduring one, which is a pretty impressive fact.

Dan Seguin  14:33

The hydro power sector contributes more than $30 billion to the Canadian economy and supports a labor force 130,000 strong. What kind of growth does waterpower Canada foresee in the future?

Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin  14:47

So just through the refurbishments and redevelopments that was talking about earlier. This is going to trigger a huge growth in the fleet because with no major new and harmful impacts with, you know, a pretty reasonable injection of funds into your fleet, you can actually get a lot more generation out of an existing site. So that's very exciting. And, it's going to trickle down in terms of economic ramifications. But what we will always kind of try and advocate for is to not let go of Greenfield hydro. And, and the exciting thing about hydro is it comes in many shapes and forms. So you don't have to just focus on large hydro reservoir, you also have run of the river of all sizes , by the way, because a lot of people assume that run off river is small hydro, but you can have 1000 megawatt, run of the river facilities, right, which is pretty big. But what's really exciting too, and we hear about more and more these days is pump storage. So we, you know, we didn't focus too much on pump storage, I think as a nation in the past, because we didn't really have to, we had so many easily developable sites run of the river, reservoir and reservoir is embedded storage, right. So it's a  great way to have on demand clean electricity. But now more and more, we're looking at exciting projects that are investing in pumped storage, and  its across Canada, as well, there's a project in Ontario, another one in Alberta, but pump storage is basically a closed loop hydro system where you have elevation, and you take advantage of that elevation to bring water down, and then back up depending on cost of electricity and low demand. So that you can meet peak load requirements, and also reduce your expenditure by managing that curve, in a very smart way. So it is it is very innovative. It is it is something that again has existed for many, many years. It's nothing new. But we had we haven't really invested a lot in this technology in Canada. So far, it's much more common in the US. But I see this coming more and more top of mind.

Dan Seguin  17:19

Hydro power infrastructure is designed to withstand floods, and often plays an important role in flood mitigation and management. We've learned that in Ottawa the hard way in 2017, and 2019. Has climate resilience and adapting to the impacts of climate change been front of mind, for Canada's electricity producers? Where do you see making the biggest impacts?

Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin  17:46

So yeah, we are investing a lot in climate change research. And I'd say it should be a priority for any sector, probably in the world. So there's a lot of research going on, we are partnering with modeling agencies, like , who helped us, you know, understand, not just the impacts on the hydropower fleet, but kind of bring in external factors as well that are going to affect climate change. The difficulty and the challenge in the country that's as big as Canada is the fact that your impacts are not going to be one general, one size fits all for the sector. So you won't be able to use general categorization for your industry, you're going to have to get regions, of course. And I remember actually a few years ago, during the floods that were happening in Ontario and Quebec, my members in BC, were saying that they were actually observing low levels in their reservoirs. And so that just speaks to the fact that it's not just a small difference, you have an extreme event happening in one side of the country, and another extreme event as a drought on the other side of the country. So what that means is you have to be extremely flexible. And people have to design especially when they refurbish and when they build new sites with climate change in mind every step of the way.

Dan Seguin  19:08

You've touched on this earlier Anne-Raphaëlle, hydro power has been around for more than 100 years. What does the untapped potential in Canada look like? And what are some of the innovations within the sector that makes it even more attractive?

Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin  19:27

Yeah. So that's one of the other misconceptions that I was alluding to earlier on a previous question. When that when I talk to Canadians and also to policymakers, sometimes they tell me Well, you know, yes, we've got a lot of hydro power in Canada, it's more than 60% of our generation. But surely, because it's so big, we must be tapped out. There must not be any more hydro to develop. And it couldn't be further from the truth. We actually have a lot of water In Canada, we've got good innovation, great sights still to develop. So our untapped potential is actually more than double our existing installed capacity. So we've got about 85,000 megawatts of current installed capacity. So you can, you can only imagine what we could do if we were to just develop a portion of the untapped technical potential. And, and the great news about that now, I always emphasize that when I when I speak at conferences, or  when I have discussions with government, and stakeholders in general is to say that, that potential is not just a reality in in one province, it's a reality across the country. So when we look at decarbonizing, electrifying, all of those great things that you know are happening are going to happen, you know, over the next few years, it's just a must to look at what you could do with your hydro resources in your province or in your territory, because it's there, it exists.

Dan Seguin  21:01

Technology is enhancing digitization, and automation of hydro power plants to realize their full potential. What are some of the digital solutions around monitoring, maintenance, and service that you see the industry benefiting from either now or the near future?

Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin  21:22

So  I hear a lot about virtual reality, and also artificial intelligence in my sector. And of course, they're two different things, but they tap into that new world of technologies that can help you operate your site in a different way. I think anything that's going to allow us to have remote access to our sites, and that means from a controlling operation. Also, from a supply chain perspective - actually COVID-19 brought one positive from my perspective, which is the fact that we're leveraging tools, more and more that allow us to do remote inspection, for example, because of course, during the pandemic, we couldn't actually go to two warehouses and inspect equipment as it was coming in from China, wherever across the world, right? You had to just wait until it arrived on site. And sometimes we're talking big pieces of furniture, now just a screw and a hammer. So just having tools that really allow you to get in and take a full scope, engineering, look at your equipment, as it comes in before it is delivered is a huge progress, and those tools exists. And that was a huge discovery, I think for me, because I wasn't aware that technology was that far ahead, already ready to respond. Another example, which is always interesting, because I've toured quite a few hydro sites. And I remember at one of the oldest sites in Canada, you know, we were looking at the control room: tons of switches, you know, probably a room that could probably accommodate eight to 10 people at one time. And, and the operator was saying, well, we refurbished and now the person can actually control everything from his living room at home, and is that his laptop, because it's all integrated, and the system is talking to that control room here on site. And that's all it takes. So automation is definitely going to be needed in the future. But it doesn't mean that we won't need, you know, physical, you know, staff and people to manage, because, of course, it's still going to be a huge requirement, but it is more efficient. And that is every day that that kind of innovation happens.

Dan Seguin  23:44

You indicated earlier that waterpower in Canada provides more than 90% of our renewable power and 60% of our overall electricity supply. Canada is blessed with an abundance of untapped potential, residing both in existing sites and new developments. Any thoughts on the pros and cons of refurbishment and redevelopment opportunities versus the development of new projects?

Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin  24:15

Yes. So I mean, it's all case specific: that's the obvious answer. And so what makes sense for a site may not make sense for another one, meaning that, you know, we've got a lot of members that are actually assessing a specific site and considering everything like from decommissioning, which is, you know, turning off the lights basically and saying, Okay, this asset has played its role and that we're going to return the site back to nature. When the economy, you know, just circumstances or environmental or just the general circumstances surrounding a specific site dictate certain decisions. So I think it's not very common that, you know, people would decide to decommission a hydro site because most of the time, even if it's just a little bit of generation, when you've had a site for 80-90 years, and you've refurbished it and maintained it over the years, it's still it's still a great provider of clean electricity. It's still a money-maker for the utility or for the independent power producer. So it's still definitely a great benefit to have within your fleet. But so I don't see any downside to refurbishment, or redevelopment. I think it's a low hanging fruit for electrification, it's something that's going to happen. It's just a question of when, and Greenfield hydro is not going anywhere. I think it's just, let's focus on what we can do first, which is refurbishment. It's the obvious thing to do and it's needed. And in a decade or two, we'll probably see another wave of investment in Greenfield hydro.

Dan Seguin  25:55

Before I forget, are you able to demystify for our listeners what Greenfield hydro is?

Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin  26:03

Greenfield hydro means you take a site that is completely natural. So an untouched site, and you develop a hydro site. And it's a terminology that can be used for any industry, not just hydro. So you can say Greenfield mining Greenfield wind, it just means that you start with a site that hasn't been touched.

Dan Seguin  26:24

Hydro power can provide abundant low carbon energy, with its storage from reservoir and pump storage. As the only renewable form of baseload electricity, how essential is hydro power to leading Canada's transition away from fossil fuels, while maximizing environmental benefits.

Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin  26:46

It's not only essential, it's critical. We always say that if we didn't have what a power within our generation mix, we would be in in a terrible situation as a country, because again, 60% of our overall electricity generation is coming from that big renewable giant, which is water power. So you know, if we take a step back and consider for one second the world we live in, in Canada, without water power, it would be quite different, and it would probably be much dirtier in terms of emissions. So we start with a huge asset, and a huge advantage compared to some countries and you know, people from across the world come to Canada to actually learn about our mostly non-emitting electricity grid. How did you do it? What are the systems you put in place? What is your regulatory environment? How did you get to where you are now? But of course, it's not to say that we are perfect because we're not we've got high emission, or emission intensive sectors. Some provinces are doing better than others for historical reasons, you know, different decisions. And I think we've been blessed with an abundance of natural resources across the nation. And so we shouldn't point fingers. It's really not about that. It's just about Okay, how do we get better? How do we clean up our system? So that we move away from, you know, negative emissions and move toward electrification, which is the priority? Right, the easiest thing to do is to turn to electrifying our transportation, of course, and then buildings, and hydropower is there, you know, we just need the right, you know, economic environment, the right signals from governments, in terms of regulatory streamlining, for example, in terms of regulations that incentivize investment in hydro, and the sector will respond because we've got the resources to develop and do more to decarbonize Canada.

Dan Seguin  28:46

You've touched on this earlier, but wondering if we can explore further. Both Canada and the United States are looking for ways to reduce carbon emissions to meet greenhouse gas reduction targets. With 60% of US electricity still being generated from coal and gas powered thermal plants, is Canada's clean, renewable hydro power becoming an attractive option for Border States? How are those partnerships negotiated? Has it been an easy sell? Are those states coming to you?

Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin  29:22

So it's as we discussed, yes, it's been something that has been done for years. So it's nothing new under the sun. But I think it's becoming more top of mind because big players like the mayor of New York, you know, for the past year has been saying, you know, we want to import a lot of clean and renewable hydro from Quebec. And he's right you know, it's a few hours north of his of his state. It's available there. There are big surpluses in Quebec it's the cheapest electricity you can buy not just in Canada - in North America. And it's a source of wealth for this province. And it's the same story in Manitoba. You know, who sends electricity to Minnesota and other states and neighboring that border on that side of the country, with new transmission lines going through the approval process in each of those jurisdictions. So I think this is definitely going to be more talked about in the future. I think it's probably rising to news headlines more and more because of politics. And depending on the political environment on either side of the border, it can be framed as a positive story, or it can be framed as a negative story, but for all intents and purposes for Canadians and for Americans, it is a great, great thing to do, because you decarbonize the system, you have a low electricity cost, and on top of everything, it's clean and renewable, so why wouldn't you do it?

Dan Seguin  30:51

How about we close off with rapid fire questions? Are you ready?

Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin  30:55

Okay.

Dan Seguin  30:57

What is your favorite word?

Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin  31:01

Um,you know, I'm a Francophone. But there's a word that I really like in English, not necessarily for its meaning, but for the sound it has on the tongue. It's serendipity. I just find it funny. It rolls well.

Dan Seguin  31:14

What is the one thing you can't live without?

Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin  31:17

Probably in equal measures: my family and coffee. Is that an acceptable answer?

Dan Seguin  31:24

What is something that challenges you?

Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin  31:29

As a mom, with a young family, I'm not a big fan of the terminology, you know, work life balance, but just trying to set some time for what's important, and not being consumed by work or other things. So just knowing your limits, I think is going to be a lifelong exercise for me.

Dan Seguin  31:51

If you could have one superpower, what would it be?

Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin  31:55

Oh, that's a good one. Probably traveling through time.

Dan Seguin  32:00

Okay. If you could turn back time, and talk to your 18 year old self? What would you tell her?

Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin  32:08

That you're on the right path, you know, continue to travel as much as you can. And, and learn from people who want to mentor you, you know, on your path  to whatever you want to achieve. Because you know, people want to help each other. That's what I've learned. They're always happy to share insights. And most the time you just have  to ask and people will be there to help you.

Dan Seguin  32:33

And lastly, what do you currently find most interesting in your sector?

Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin  32:40

I think all the excitement around the electrification, the fact that we know this is probably the next Industrial Revolution. It's hard to really tangibly feel what this is going to look like. But it's going to affect everybody in a good way. And there's not going to be one sector that's going to be left to the side because we're all going to need to collaborate. And so just that aspect of working together and being able to find new ways to revolutionize a system that has been implemented for years and years is very exciting.

Dan Seguin  33:13

Last question for you. How can our listeners learn more about your organization? How can they connect?

Anne-Raphaëlle Audouin  33:20

So website is always the first stop: waterpowercanada.ca We're very active on social media too, so they can find us on YouTube. They can find us on Twitter and on LinkedIn. And don't be a stranger because we love hearing from people.

Dan Seguin  33:39

Thank you for joining us today. I truly hope you enjoyed this episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. For past episodes, make sure you visit our website hydroottawa.com/podcast. Lastly, if you found value in this podcast, be sure to subscribe. Cheers, everyone.

Roughly 50 per cent of greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions in Canada are from municipalities. This means that cities have the opportunity to make a huge impact when it comes to shifting and improving energy habits. In this episode, Andrea Flowers – the Senior Project Manager for Environmental Programs, Planning, Infrastructure & Economic Development for the City of Ottawa – tells us all about the steps that Ottawa is taking, through an action plan called Energy Evolution, to reduce GHG emissions from the community by 100 per cent by 2050 and from City operations by 100 per cent by 2040.

Related Content & Links:

• Websites:

  • Visit ottawa.ca/climatechange to learn more about what Ottawa is doing to reduce GHG emissions and to build a more resilient city in the face of climate change. 

  • Visit ottawa.ca/energyevolution or the Energy Evolution page on Engage Ottawa to learn more about Energy Evolution.
    Complete a survey to help Energy Ottawa understand the barriers you face to acting on climate change and subscribe to Engage Ottawa to be notified when new content is added. 

  • https://hydroottawa.com/

 

Transcript:

Dan Seguin  00:41

Well, everyone, welcome back. This is another episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. In April 2019, the City of Ottawa, the nation's capital, declared a climate emergency. It was this declaration that signaled to the community at large that the municipal government was taking climate action very, very seriously. And that is why ramping up with its climate change master plan, its climate resiliency strategy, and a special project called Energy Evolution. It's clear the city recognize that municipalities can influence significant change over their own emissions. In fact, roughly 50% of greenhouse gas emissions in Canada are from municipalities. That means every town and every city in Canada can make a huge impact. By tackling climate change at the municipal level, on the ground sort of speak, municipalities can not only improve the quality of life for their residents, but also reduce greenhouse gas emissions and save money in operations and energy costs. Today, we're going to focus on Energy Evolution. This is the action plan for how the City of Ottawa will meet 100% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions from its operations of the municipal government by 2040, and from the community, the entire city by 2015. In short, its vision is clear to transform Ottawa into a thriving city of the future powered by clean, renewable energy. Realizing Energy Evolution's vision will require concerted efforts and collaboration across all sectors of the community like never before. The strategy is guided by three components: reduce energy use through conservation and efficiency, increase the supply renewable energy through local and regional production, and prioritize the procurement of clean and renewable energy. Here is today's big question. How will Ottawa the nation's Capital go about to set its emission reduction targets. And what was the process to creating a climate action plan? Joining me today is a very special guest, Andrea Flowers, who is leading the development of the city of Ottawa's renewable energy strategy. Andrea, can you tell us a bit about you, the work that you do, and why global warming, climate change and clean energy means so much to you?

Andrea Flowers  03:37

Well, I have more than 15 years strategic climate change planning, policy development, project management, stakeholder engagement and public education. I've worked in the nonprofit private and public sector at the municipal, provincial and federal level. And over the last year and a half or so I've had the privilege of leading the City of Ottawa's as climate change and resiliency team. I think that climate change is the political and moral challenge of our time, and I think we all have a responsibility to learn about it and take action on it.

Dan Seguin  04:07

Can you tell us a bit about why Ottawa declared a climate emergency in 2019 and why the city needs a community energy transition strategy, like energy evolution?

Andrea Flowers  04:20

Ottawa declared a climate emergency to name, frame and deepen our commitment to protecting the economy or ecosystem in our community from climate change. Worldwide, climate scientists agree that fast rising global temperatures have created a climate emergency, and that we need to limit global warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius in order to avoid catastrophic climate change. At this point, there's hardly a week that goes by without hearing about climate change in the news. And so, cities across the country and around the world have declared climate change in order to take action on this issue and raise the profile of it. Since cities have an influence over about half the emissions in Canada, I think Ottawa like all other cities needs a strategy like energy evolution to respond to climate change. I also think that cities like all other levels of government have a responsibility to play in the leadership role of catalyzing the broader community, and helping us all collectively rise to the challenge. In Ottawa Energy Evolution is our strategy to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in the community 100% by 2050. In line with that global science and energy evolution hopes to transform Ottawa into a thriving city powered by clean renewable energy. But realizing Energy Evolution's vision will require concerted efforts and collaboration across all sectors of the community.

Dan Seguin  05:48

Andrea, wondering if you can expand on the scope and scale of changes required for Ottawa to reduce GHG emissions below the 2020 levels by 2050. And what are the short, mid and long term targets?

Andrea Flowers  06:07

I'll start with the second part of the question for context. So as part of Council's approval of the new climate change master plan in Ottawa, short, mid and long term targets for greenhouse gas emissions were set, and they align with those inter-governmental Panel on Climate Change targets. So the IPCC targets to limit global warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius. So community wide, the short term target is to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 43% by 2025 and 68% by 2040 and 100% by 2050. And then the scope scale and the short timelines associated with those are really difficult to meet. I would say that meeting those targets will require both unprecedented action and Investment across the community and around the world. So to give you a sense of what that scope and scale means, we're going to have to phase out almost all fossil fuels. That means gas, natural gas and diesel, we're going to nearly fully electrify our heating and cooling systems are going to have to nearly fully electrify or go to zero emission transportation systems. For our personal vehicles or commercial fleets and our transit systems, we're going to have to start using more waste heat and renewable natural gas to meet our heating demands. And we're going to have to generate and store enough renewable energy, particularly electricity mostly from wind and solar to meet the demand and offset emissions that we currently have from Ontario's provincial grid.

Dan Seguin  07:51

based on your analysis, what are the biggest contributors to Ottawa's greenhouse gas emissions and how challenging will it be to shift away from those,

Andrea Flowers  08:03

let me be a bit of background. So Ottawa undertakes greenhouse gas emissions inventories every year so that we know where our emissions come from. And in 2018, the most recent year that we have right now, roughly 90% of the emissions in Ottawa came from the building and transportation sectors, basically how we heat and cool our homes and how we get around the city. And if we look at those emissions, and the contributing sources of emissions, then natural gas is by far the largest contributor in the community, followed by gasoline and diesel. Of course, given the scope and scale of the transportation system in our building sector, it's going to be really difficult to shift away from these emission sources. governments don't have control direct control over emissions, although of course they can influence them between policy and regulation or incentives and disincentives, but success is going to depend to a large extent on private action. It's going to take billions of dollars of public and private capital to make community wide investments over the next 30 years. And to meet those targets that we set, the upfront investments over the next 10 years will be the highest. But the good news is that our financial analysis shows there'll be a net financial benefit to society at large starting in early 2030, probably around 2032 when the net annual savings start to outpace the revenues generated and the savings generated compared to the annual investments required. And beyond the financial challenges. There's lots of federal and provincial governmental, regulatory barriers that prevent us from doing some of the actions required in the model. And then even beyond this, of course, there's risk that the public won't make or accept the types of changes required. And I'm cognizant of the fact that there's a huge Equity and Inclusion risk for this transition. We need to find ways that everybody can participate in climate solutions, and not just the people who can afford it.

Dan Seguin  10:14

In your view, do you feel that public acceptance is a challenge? Can anyone participate in climate solutions? Are there any barriers?

Andrea Flowers  10:23

I'm a champion in this sector. I also own an EV. And I cycle almost everywhere. I've done deep retrofits on my home, and they're all really challenging choices to make for all kinds of reasons: where to start, how to prioritize how to actually do it. You're highlighting some of the other challenges in public acceptance and just our ability to make these changes.

Dan Seguin  10:50

The intergovernmental panel on climate change has said that limiting global warming to 1.5 Celsius is possible. But will require far reaching and unprecedented changes in all aspects of society. In order to achieve this at the local level, what type of changes can we expect from the city and even from ourselves

Andrea Flowers  11:14

Well, when we look at Energy Evolution, we've broken it down in a total of five sectors on to figure out how we can achieve a 100% reduction by 2050. The five sectors are land use buildings, transportation, waste, and renewable natural gas and electricity. And four out of the five sectors really rely on land use as sort of a base element to the whole model. If we look at the model itself, the building and transportation sectors account for roughly 75% of all the cumulative emission reductions from now until 2050. And the remaining 25% will have to come from waste and renewable natural gas and electricity sectors. The model itself then takes those five sectors and it breaks it down into 39 actions. And those 39 actions tell us sort of the scale of change required in each of the actions. If we think about what the top five emissions are, I said 75% of the reductions will come from the buildings and transportation sector. So it's no surprise that four of these five come from those areas includes by far the largest action, which is to electrify personal electric vehicles. So about 20% of the 100% of emissions that we need to achieve will come from the electrification of personal vehicles. The second most important action is to divert organics and create renewable natural gas so we need to divert our our kitchen waste our yard and leaf waste away from landfills where we create very a powerful GHG emission called methane. And we need to divert both methane that's produced out landfills and methane, which we could capture through anaerobic digesters and create renewable natural gas. So luckily the city is right now doing a new solid waste master plan. And there they are seeking input on what to do with our organics. The third most important action is to retrofit existing residential buildings and the fourth is to retrofit existing commercial buildings. Now, we're not talking about just air sealing and new windows or insulation in the attic. We're talking about deep retrofits, we're talking about retrofits which will reduce natural gas consumption by about 60%, or at least our thermal or heating demand by about 60%. And we're talking about reducing our electrical demand by about 50%. So deep deep retrofits throughout the residential and commercial and institutional sectors, and then the fifth, like the top five action is to transition to zero emission commercial fleets. And, again, this will likely be electrification of commercial fleets. But we haven't ruled out fuel cells either.

Dan Seguin  14:23

Ottawa has defined its greenhouse gas emission targets and states that one of the ways it will meet them is by increasing the supply of renewable energy through local and regional production and prioritizing the procurement of clean renewable energy. Can you walk us through the targets and how the city will increase the supply of renewable energy?

Andrea Flowers  14:48

Well, achieving the 100% scenario will definitely put an increasing demand on electricity production and the delivery of electricity. So right now renewable energy projects are required to contribute about 8.5% towards the 100% scenario by 2050. Now, the targets are aggressive. So to meet our 2030 targets under the 100% scenario, collectively, we'll have to install a significant amount of clean, renewable energy. We're talking 631 megawatts of solar in the residential, commercial and utility sectors, but 100 megawatts in wind, 18 megawatts in hydro power, and three megawatts in biogas. And by 2030, we would also have to increase our storage to about 73 megawatts to reduce curtailment of renewable generation from 90% to 85%. And those, those are all our 2030 targets, they become even more aggressive in 2050. So how are we going to do it? What kind of things are we thinking about? Well, sort of more broadly in the community. We love to ramp up solar generation at a faster pace for at least the next five years, initially through a rooftop strategy, because on site net metering is the only available opportunity to connect with renewable energy generation to the grid. And then also because of the relative scarcity of renewable fuels, fuel based cogeneration can't be installed unless there is a rationale for doing so, to reduce the redundancy requirement or to support specific electricity system requirements. Existing co-gen plants that don't meet these criteria should retire as opportunities arise. And we'll be looking for a sizable amount of battery or other powered storage capacity to ensure that variable renewable generation can be shifted as we as periods of surplus, you know, vary between high demand and the relative curl curtailment of renewable generation.

Dan Seguin  16:59

What are some of the best benefits that your project Energy Evolution will bring to the city and its residents. Does it include economic development and maybe...what else?

Andrea Flowers  17:10

There's lots of benefits associated with Energy Evolution beyond the obvious reducing our greenhouse gas emissions. Certainly economic development is a key one. From that perspective, supporting Ottawa's local businesses in the transition towards a low carbon economy will help companies reduce their operating costs. And it represents an opportunity to create good quality local jobs and attract investment. Right now. ottawans spend about $3 billion a year on energy costs and most of that leaves the city so if we can generate more energy locally, we can keep a greater share of the energy dollars within our local economy. Canada's clean energy sector is growing faster than almost any other sector and it's attracting 10s of billions of dollars in investment every year. Already are clean energy sector accounts for about 300,000 jobs in Canada. And as part of the financial analysis, and part of the energy and emissions modeling we did for energy pollution. We looked at job creation and we predict for for building retrofits alone, we could generate as many as 38,000 jobs here in Ottawa. And then to your other part of your question beyond economic development, there's there's also other benefits. From a public health perspective, we expect that air quality could improve as we move away from fossil fuels causing a reduction in health related effects like heart disease and breathing problems. We hope that physical and mental health would improve as we get out and cycle and walk more instead of using personal vehicles. We may see an improvement in sleep patterns as the reduced noise levels from vehicles as we transition from fuels to electric vehicles which are much quieter. And as we insulate buildings to improve our heating. And then finally, there's also benefits associated with energy security and resiliency. With an increasing number of extreme events like ice storms and tornadoes. increasing our local renewable generation and supply provides affordable energy to residents and businesses and could help  with uninterrupted levels of service during those extreme weather events.

Dan Seguin  19:28

Through an energy lens, what role will conservation and efficiency play in lowering greenhouse gas emissions for Ottawa? Where is that low hanging fruit?

Andrea Flowers  19:42

Well, Energy Evolution's model is built on a conservation first scenario. It uses an integrated model approach. So if conservation doesn't happen first, we will effectively just run out of zero emission energy. The model looks at conservation and efficiencies across all sectors including Buildings transportation, electricity and natural gas. And really the low hanging fruit in that list is the electrification of private vehicles. So a gas power train has a fuel to wheels efficiency in the 20-30% range, whereas, a battery electric is more like a 90% efficiency range. So in our modeling, there's no other single measure which conserves as much primary energy as the conversion from gas or diesel to electric vehicles.

Dan Seguin  20:30

Not to brag, but Hydro Ottawa has been in the renewable energy business for more than 130 years, and currently has built in clean generation to power a third of the city. Andrea, how important was it to engage with strategic partners like Hydro Ottawa, and Envari energy solutions?

Andrea Flowers  20:52

Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you. It's, it's amazing that hydro Ottawa and their subsidiaries have become such a leader. In green energy and it is critical for us to work with partners like Hydro Ottawa. Throughout the development of energy evolution, we've worked with more than 200 strategic partners and technical experts and we know that the city alone can't achieve the scale of emission reductions required and that everybody has a role to play. Fortunately, Hydro Ottawa and its subsidiaries and Envari and Portage Power have been there. Since the beginning of the energy evolution process. They've provided input technical expertise, and you've been very generous about creating platforms like this one to amplify the messaging and engage broader audiences. Without Hydro Ottawa, it is highly unlikely that energy evolution could succeed. The 100% GHG reduction scenario foresees electrical demand more than doubling by 2050. So we need to work together to align our planning and forecasting identify opportunities and advocate together for policy changes at the provincial level. It's wonderful that hydro Ottawa has a long history of renewable energy generation and we need to keep expanding it. As I said earlier, local generation is key to meeting our targets since the province doesn't currently have plans to generate electricity with zero emissions grid. And because there's so many opportunities for economic development here locally.

Dan Seguin  22:25

The transport sector accounts for approximately a quarter of global greenhouse gas emissions and is one of the major sectors where emissions are still rising. Electrification is widely considered an attractive solution for reducing the dependency and environmental impact of road transportation. Where does the city stand with electrification of fleets like buses, EV charging stations, and maybe ebikes.

Andrea Flowers  22:55

Now well, I'll go back to the beginning of the question for a minute because if transportation sector accounts for a quarter of global emissions. It's actually quite a bit higher in Ottawa. So community wide, by in 2018. Ottawa's transportation sector accounted for about 44% of Ottawa's GHG emissions. And partly that's because we don't have a large industrial base here in Ottawa, whereas globally, that would play a more significant role. But 44% of emissions in Ottawa are coming from the transportation sector. And in order to meet our 100% scenario target, transportation, we'll need to account for about 37% of our GHG reduction targets emissions. And the city's corporate target is to reduce GHG emissions 100% by 2040. And you'll notice that that's about 10 years earlier than the community. So in the model for our city operations, the model calls for fleets including our own transit and municipal fleets like by-law police ambulance calls for our fleet. To be zero emission by 2030. And then our commercial fleets to be up to can take a bit longer up to 2040. But the transition to zero emission must be a steady and incremental progress. You can't hit the target by backloading the model because then the the emissions are compounding. And although we expect that electrification will be key for the electrification of fleets, we haven't totally ruled out fuel cells. We have however, rolled out internal combustion power trains, even if they use a carbon neutral fuel, because they simply aren't as efficient. In terms of where does the city stand with electrification of our fleets and buses. The city has a corporate policy to include EV chargers at all new facilities and we're considering revising the policy to include EV chargers when we do major renovations or retrofits at City facilities. We continue to grow our own Electric fleet just in the last couple of weeks, the City of Ottawa has purchased four new hyundai konas for bylaw services, and there's some great information on  [email protected] about that. And then in terms of public chargers or general stances that we don't want to, we don't want to have any additional barriers to purchasing private electric vehicles. So we want to do what we can to ensure that there is sufficient public charging in municipal facilities and on municipal lands to support that. So the city is installing a new fast charger at Bob McCrory and it'll be a 150 kilowatt fast charger. And then we've partnered with Eydro Ottawa and Envari to install 13 new doubleheader chargers on city right away throughout the city. So those We'll be going in hopefully by the end of 2020. Back to the question around ebikes. We're encouraged by developments in E bikes and E scooters. And they certainly fit broadly under active transportation in the energy evolution strategy. But we haven't yet given them any detailed focus. So there is increasing interest amongst the public and it's a gap that we know we haven't addressed yet.

Dan Seguin  26:28

As an example of conservation efficiency, are you able to talk about the city's LED streetlight conversion project and what the results have been?

Andrea Flowers  26:38

Well, overall, it's been a resounding success. We've already met our energy and maintenance targets. Maintenance savings have given a knock off reduction in GHG emissions from a reduction in the deployment of service vehicles. And I would say, generally, the project seems to have helped with general widespread acceptance of conservation. And that helps us sell the concept of conservation in other areas across the city and the community as well. By the end of the project, I think that we will have changed more than 58,000 light fixtures to LEDs. And we will have reduced our energy by 60%, reduced GHG emissions by thousand tons per year and our operating costs by close to $5 million. So it's a resounding success. We've also seen co-benefits like reduced light pollution and although I've yet to confirm it with a biologist, I've heard anecdotally that the conversion of LED lights is starting to bring back fireflies into the city because the different color of light makes it easier for the fireflies to communicate amongst themselves. So on my to do list is to confirm that with a biologist but I think it is an interesting little tidbit and I choose to think that it may be true.

Dan Seguin  27:54

Okay, you alluded to this earlier, so wondering if you could expand on what role will energy storage have in lowering the city's carbon future.

Andrea Flowers  28:06

Thermal storage, renewable natural gas and battery storage all have a role to play in meeting Ottawa's GHG reduction targets. Thermal storage will likely be the most important kind of storage both seasonally and on a shorter term basis. So, seasonally or longer term storage will be important for how we operate geothermal systems and shorter term storage will be more buildings specific and could help us shave peak demands. Although we call exclusively for renewable natural gas in the model,  the gas grid will provide less energy than it does today and it will continue to be a large source of storage likely able to meet all demand without any supply for several weeks. And then finally, we need battery storage and the 100% model for electrical grid stability to manage variable generation. battery storage is required to reduce the curtailment renewable generation during periods of low demand, and although it's not modeled, we see the potential for storage to help with the economic competitiveness of electricity. And this ultimately will be important in helping Ottawa achieve our targets.

Dan Seguin  29:15

Okay, Andrea, let's close this off with some rapid fire questions. I hope you're ready.

Andrea Flowers  29:23

Ready

Dan Seguin  29:24

What is your favorite word?

Andrea Flowers  29:27

Zither - such a fun word to say it's a quirky instrument like a harp. You play on your lap and I've had one since a child and it's it's a fun word to say. I played the zither.

Dan Seguin  29:41

What is the one thing you can't live without?

Andrea Flowers  29:44

My man.

Dan Seguin  29:46

What is something that challenges you

Andrea Flowers  29:49

the status quo

Dan Seguin  29:51

If you had one superpower, just one, what would it be?

Andrea Flowers  29:55

Ah the ability to show people the future so that we can really see what the consequences of our actions and our decisions are.

Dan Seguin  30:05

If you could turn back time and talk to your 18 year old self, what would you tell her?

Andrea Flowers  30:10

Ah, I would say just follow a path of love. And you will find love in all aspects of your life. Trust that the things that you're interested in, will lead you interesting places and that the path might not always be clear, but there will always be something interesting along the way.

Dan Seguin  30:34

And lastly, what do you currently find most interesting in your sector?

Andrea Flowers  30:39

The intersection between science and politics. It's complex and interconnected and evolving quickly, so it is ever changing.

Dan Seguin  30:51

Well, Andrea, we've reached the end of another episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. I hope you had a lot of fun. Last question for you. How can our listeners learn more about you, your organization, how can they connect?

Andrea Flowers  31:05

Well, to be honest, I think that they need to learn less about me and more about the important work that the City is doing and this project in particular Energy Evolution. If you want to learn more about climate change in Ottawa, then you can visit ottawa.ca/climatechange. And there you'll find links to both the mitigation work we do on how to reduce greenhouse gas emissions like Energy Evolution, as well as our adaptation work and how we will build a more resilient future for Ottawa in the face of a changing climate. So, lots of ways and lots of other ways to connect on there, you can go to ottawa.ca/climatechange or ottawa.ca/energyevolution. There you have a chance to sign up for our E newsletter, which focuses on climate change. You can learn more about the projects and how to get involved and You can take a survey on that tells us what kind of barriers you face on implementing climate action.

Dan Seguin  32:09

Thank you for joining us today. I truly hope you enjoyed this episode of The ThinkEnergy podcast. For past episodes, make sure you visit our website hydroottawa.com/podcast. Lastly, if you found value in this podcast Be sure to subscribe. Cheers, everyone.