John Wilson's guest is the pioneering American artist, author and educator Judy Chicago. Having run the first ever feminist art course in California, she established herself as a powerful advocate of women artists in the early 1970s. She is best known for a ground-breaking installation piece called The Dinner Party, a monumental work which was made with the help of a team of ceramists and needle-workers over five years and first displayed in 1979. Now enjoying her sixth decade as an artist, Judy Chicago is regarded as a trailblazing figure in the art world.

Judy recalls studying at the Art Institute of Chicago's children's classes at the age of five, and afterwards wandering around the galleries upstairs where she was particularly drawn to the Impressionists. It was here that she first decided to become an artist. As a young woman she moved to the west coast to pursue her dream. Although she found the art scene there "inhospitable" to women, she was inspired by a group of male artists including Ed Rucha, Larry Bell and Bill Al Bengton, associated with the LA-based Ferus gallery.

Judy also cites discovering Christine de Pisan, the Italian-born French medieval poet at the court of King Charles VI of France, as a turning point in her own research and art practice. Like Judy herself, de Pisan had faced obstacles because of her gender and sought to challenge contemporary attitudes towards women by creating an allegorical City of Ladies. She is one of the women represented in Judy Chicago's landmark work The Dinner Party.

Producer: Edwina Pitman

Archive used:

Oscar-winning director, screenwriter and novelist Neil Jordan made his name with the 1984 movie The Company Of Wolves, adapted from an Angela Carter short story. His 1986 film Mona Lisa earned BAFTA and Golden Globe awards for its star Bob Hoskins. Jordan scored an even bigger critical and commercial hit worldwide with The Crying Game, which had six Academy Award nominations including best screenplay which was won by Neil Jordan himself. His 20 feature films made over 40 years also include an adaptation of Ann Rice’s novel Interview With the Vampire, Irish revolutionary drama Michael Collins and The End Of The Affair, adapted from the Graham Greene novel.

Neil Jordan talks to John Wilson about his upbringing in a Dublin suburb, the son of a school teacher father who encouraged an early love of storytelling. After working as a labourer, and in a Dublin theatre for a while, he met filmmaker John Boorman (Point Blank, Deliverance, The Emerald Forest) who, in 1980, was shooting his Arthurian legend film Excalibur at film studios in Ireland. Boorman invited Neil Jordan to direct a documentary about the making of Excalibur, an experience which started his filmmaking career. Jordan also chooses the 1943 Jean Genet novel Notre Dame des Fleurs - Our Lady Of The Flowers - as a formative influence on his screenwriting. He recalls the struggles to make The Crying Game and how the film’s producer Harvey Weinstein objected to the inclusion of a trans character, a supporting role for which Jaye Davidson was nominated as best actor at the 1992 Academy Awards.

Producer: Edwina Pitman

Archive used:

Zadie Smith grew up in north west London and studied English at Cambridge University. After a publisher’s bidding war when she was just 21, her debut novel White Teeth became a huge critical and commercial hit on publication in 2000 and won several awards including the Orange Prize, now known as the Women’s Prize for Fiction, and the Whitbread first novel award. Since then, with books including On Beauty, NW and Swing Time, Zadie Smith has established herself as one of the world’s most successful and popular living novelists, renowned for her witty dialogue and explorations of cultural identity, class and sexuality. Her most recent book The Fraud is her first historical novel.

Zadie Smith talks to John Wilson about her upbringing in Willesden, North West London, with her Jamaican born mother and white English father. She chooses C S Lewis’ The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe as an early formative influence and remembers how its themes of danger, power and betrayal were intoxicating to her as a young reader. Zadie talks about the creative influence of her husband, the poet Nick Laird, and of the cultural impact of a trip she made to west Africa in 2007 which inspired much of her 2016 novel Swing Time. She also reflects on her role as an essayist who in recent years, has increasingly written about global political and social issues.

Producer: Edwina Pitman

Readings from:

Renowned for the autobiographical candour of her lyrics, Lily Allen has sung about the pitfalls of fame, drugs, broken relationships and motherhood. She was nominated for a Grammy Award for her debut album Alright Still and after the release of It’s Not Me, It’s You in 2010 won a Brit Award and three Ivor Novello Awards, including Songwriter of the Year. In 2021 she embarked on a stage acting career starring in 2.22 A Ghost Story, for which she was nominated for an Olivier Award. More recently, with her childhood friend Miquita Oliver, she launched her BBC podcast series Miss Me.

Talking to John Wilson, Lily recalls a sometimes sad and troubled childhood. Her father, the actor and comedian Keith Allen, had left the family home when she was four, and her film producer mother Alison Owen was often away working. She chooses as her first formative experiences a school concert in which she performed the song Baby Mine from the Disney movie Dumbo and captivated the audience. She recalls how the first started writing and recording her own songs, and built up a fanbase with the on-line platform MySpace. She chooses, as key musical influences the 1979 song Up The Junction by Squeeze, and the 2004 album A Grand Don’t Come For Free by Mike Skinner, otherwise known as The Streets. Lily Allen also reflects on the pressures of juggling life in the spotlight with motherhood, and how theatre acting has offered her a new creative challenge.

Producer: Edwina Pitman

The work of composer and conductor John Adams blends the rhythmic vitality of Minimalism with late-Romantic orchestral harmonies. He emerged alongside Philip Glass, Steve Reich and other musical minimalists in the early 1970s, and his reputation grew with symphonic work and operas that tackle recent history including Nixon In China, the Death Of Klinghoffer and Dr Atomic. He is the winner of five Grammy Awards and the Pulitzer Prize for Music, and is one of America’s greatest and most performed living composers.

Born and raised in New England, Adams learned the clarinet from his father and played in marching bands and community orchestras during his formative years. He began composing at the age of ten and heard his first orchestral pieces performed while still a teenager. He tells John Wilson about the huge influence the composer and conductor Leonard Bernstein and his televised Young People's Concerts had on him. He also reveals how jazz band leader and composer Duke Ellington influenced how he writes for the orchestra, and how Charles Dickens inspired him to embrace accessibly in his compositions.

Producer: Edwina Pitman

Extract from Leonard Bernstein's Young People's Concert, What Does Music Mean? CBS, 18 January 1958, © The Leonard Bernstein Office

Irish novelist Anne Enright is the author of seven novels, including The Gathering, winner of the Booker Prize in 2007. Her 2012 novel The Forgotten Waltz won the Andre Carnegie Medal for Fiction and her novel The Green Road won The Irish Novel of the Year in 2015, the same year that she was appointed as the inaugural Laureate for Irish Fiction. Her latest novel The Wren, The Wren has been shortlisted for the Women’s Prize for Fiction 2024.

Anne tells John Wilson how her childhood home in the suburbs of Dublin, and holidays spent at the Pollock Holes in Kilkee inform her writing. She recalls her book-devouring household and first reading Ulysses while on a cycling holiday at the age of 14. The play Top Girls by Caryl Churchill was also a creative influence, particularly in the way Churchill wrote dialogue for women who were at the time, so underrepresented on stage. Anne also cites the influence of the writer Angela Carter, both as a writer of contemporary fiction and as her tutor and mentor at the University of East Anglia.

Producer: Edwina Pitman

Archive and readings used:

Extract from The Gathering, read by Anne Enright

Brazilian photographer Sebastião Salgado is best known for his captivating black and white photographs. He has documented scenes of hardship and desperation in times of war and famine; he has explored global labour and migration; and he has captured the wonders of the natural world. Salgado has worked in more than 120 countries over the last 50 years, and is now regarded as one of the all time greats of photography. His images are in the collections of museums and galleries around the world, he won the prestigious Premium Imperiale arts prize in 2021 and was the 2024 recipient of the Sony World Photography Award for outstanding achievement.

Raised on this a cattle farm in eastern Minas Gerais state, an early formative experience was leaving home for the city of Vitória in 1960. It was here, watching ships dock from all around the world, that he first felt the desire to travel. It's also where he met his wife Lélia who is his curator and editor. He began a promising career as an economist but switched to photography in the early 1970s, after he and Lélia bought their first camera on holiday. Joining the Magnum agency, the international cooperative of photographers, in 1979 allowed him to refine his craft with the help and advice of photography greats such as Robert Capa and Henri Cartier-Bresson.

Salgado tells John Wilson about some of his most famous photo series, including those on the theme of manual labour which he called Workers; and Exodus, the stories of global migration. Covering the Rwandan genocide in 1994 as well as years of photographing refugees from wars, natural disasters and poverty finally took its toll on Salgado's health. He stopped photographing and returned to Brazil, where he and Lélia began reforesting his father's farm, now transformed into a National Park of lush vegetation called Instituto Terra. The success of this venture led to Salgado returning to photography, this time seeking out beauty and landscapes in series called Genesis, his love letter to the planet.

Producer: Edwina Pitman

For over forty years, the sculptor Sir Antony Gormley has been using his own body as the basis for his artistic work, and is known for creating cast iron human figures that stand on high streets, rooftops and beaches, as well as in museums and galleries around the world. He won the Turner Prize in 1994 and the prestigious Premium Imperiale in 2013. Antony Gormley is best known for the Angel Of The North, a monumental winged figure on a hill in Gateshead which, overlooking the motorway and a mainline railway, is one of the most viewed pieces of modern art in the world.

He talks to John Wilson about his Catholic childhood and the influence that his former art teacher, the sculptor John Bunting had on him while he was at boarding school. Being taken by his father to the British Museum and seeing the colossal human-headed winged bulls, which once guarded an entrance to the citadel of the Assyrian king Sargon II (721-705 BC) captured his creative imagination. Gormley also chooses the life-changing experience of learning Vipassana meditation in India under the teacher S N Goenka, as one that has deeply informed his work.

Producer: Edwina Pitman

Archive:

As part of the so-called Britart generation of the early 1990’s, artist Sam Taylor-Wood, as she was then known, made her name with photographic and video pieces. Diagnosed with colon cancer in 1997, and then breast cancer three years later, she addressed her treatment and recovery in artworks she made at the time. She moved into filmmaking with her first feature Nowhere Boy, about the life of the young John Lennon in 2009. Other cinematic projects have included adaptations of the E L James novel 50 Shades Of Gray, the James Frey memoir A Million Little Pieces and, most recently, the Amy Winehouse biopic Back To Black.

Sam tells John Wilson about the experience of first seeing the Rothko Seagram paintings at the Tate gallery when she was nine years old, and the impact that they had on her in her creative imagination. Being introduced to Andy Warhol films such as Chelsea Girls and Empire made her realise that art and cinema are deeply intertwined and went on to influence her style as a director. John Cassavetes' A Woman Under the Influence was the first film that made Sam want to be a cinematic filmmaker and she also reveals how Oscar-winning director Anthony Minghella encouraged her to make her debut short film Love You More.

Producer: Edwina Pitman

Sir Antonio Pappano is one of the world’s most acclaimed conductors. He started work at the age of ten as an accompanist for his father, who worked as a singing teacher. After leading orchestras in Brussels and Oslo, Pappano was appointed as musical director of the Royal Opera House in 2002. Stepping down after 22 years leading Covent Garden, he has joined the London Symphony Orchestra as chief conductor. Antonio Pappano was knighted in 2012 and conducted the orchestra at the coronation of King Charles III in 2023. An award winning recording artist, he has conducted on over 70 live and studio albums.

Antonio Pappano tells John Wilson about his upbringing in a central London council flat, the son of Italian immigrants, and his love of music from an early age. He recalls the significance of receiving his grade 5 piano examination result by post, "a lightbulb moment” in which he realised what he wanted to do with his life. He also describes his parents' grief after the death of his baby sister, which led to the Pappano family moving to Connecticut, where Antonio continued his musical tuition under a local piano teacher called Norma Verrilli and composer Arnold Franchetti. His professional career was nurtured by conductor and pianist Daniel Barenboim who employed Pappano as his assistant for six years, a period in which he learned the art of conducting. He also looks back at his 22 years leading the Royal Opera at Covent Garden and talks candidly of his concerns about the funding and championing of opera in the UK.

Producer: Edwina Pitman

Music and archive:

Puccini, Turandot, Act 1 Ah! per l’ultima volta!