This Old Marketing - News Podcast Weekly with Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose

AI is getting more powerful, publishers want their communities back, and marketers are apparently becoming engineers.

In this episode of This Old Marketing, Joe and Robert start with OpenAI and the growing concerns around increasingly capable AI systems. Is it marketing...or theater...or real concerns? The boys lean toward marketing.

Then, OpenWeb launches Reddit-style forums that publishers can build directly into their own sites. For years, publishers watched conversations move from their comment sections to platforms like Reddit and Facebook. With search traffic under pressure, could community once again become one of the most important assets publishers own?

Joe's Marketing Winner: Meta and Muse

Joe gives Meta the win for understanding that AI adoption isn't only a technology problem. It's an emotional one. By associating its AI with a cute, friendly character, Meta is making the technology feel less intimidating and more approachable.

Is it brilliant positioning, or the AI equivalent of putting a cartoon character on a cereal box?

Robert's Marketing Winner: Visit Sweden

Robert gives the win to Visit Sweden and its "Introvert Travel Agency," a campaign built specifically around travelers who would rather avoid crowds, forced social interaction and the traditional tourist experience.

Joe's Commentary: Anthropic, Religion and the Marketing of AI Acceptance

Joe looks at The New York Times report on Anthropic's private meetings with theologians, philosophers and religious thinkers about Claude, morality and the possibility of AI consciousness.

Robert's Rant: The Marketing Engineer

The Wall Street Journal looks at the rise of the "marketing engineer," a title for marketers combining AI, automation and traditional marketing judgment.

OpenAI / Astra safety https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/28/technology/openai-astra-safety.html

OpenWeb launches forums for publishers https://www.axios.com/2026/09/30/openweb-forums-publishers-reddit

Joe's Marketing Winner: Meta Muse https://www.theverge.com/column/999999/optimizer-meta-muse-ai-cute

Joe's Commentary: Anthropic, Claude and Religion https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/29/us/anthropic-claude-morals-ai.html

Robert's Marketing Winner: Visit Sweden's Introvert Travel Agency https://adage.com/creativity/work/aa-visit-sweden-introvert-travel-agency/

Robert's Rant: Marketers Are Rebranding as Engineers to Survive the AI Era https://www.wsj.com/cmo-today/marketers-are-rebranding-as-engineers-to-survive-the-ai-era-2938574b

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This week's sponsor:Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

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Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.thetilt.com/join-tilt-newsletter

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

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This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Content marketing is changing, and Joe and Robert believe the traditional model may finally be reaching the end of the road.

In this special episode of This Old Marketing, the guys look ahead to the state of content marketing in 2027 and present two different, but complementary, models for what comes next.

Joe goes deep on the Trust Portfolio, a strategy for organizations to build a diversified collection of trusted human voices instead of relying almost entirely on the corporate brand. He walks through how companies can identify the audiences where trust matters most, find the right people to serve them and build human-led content franchises designed to create ongoing audience relationships.

Robert introduces The Plural Brand, his framework for a world where AI makes every company capable of producing polished, professional and increasingly similar content. Instead of trying to manufacture one perfectly consistent brand voice, Robert argues that organizations need distinctiveness, multiple credible human voices and the ability to earn trust one audience at a time.

Two frameworks. Two perspectives. One big question: What does content marketing become when creating more content is no longer the answer?

Resources from the episode

Joe Pulizzi: How to Build a Trust Portfolio Includes the full article, the free Trust Portfolio Field Guide and the companion Trust Portfolio Worksheet. https://www.thetilt.com/marketing/how-to-build-a-trust-portfolio

Robert Rose: The Plural Brand Includes Robert's free Plural Brand eBook. https://www.seventhbear.com/the-plural-brand/

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This week's sponsor:Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.thetilt.com/join-tilt-newsletter

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

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This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Joe and Robert kick off the show with a question that's getting harder to ignore: when the CEOs building the world's most powerful AI systems start saying development may need to slow down, how concerned should everyone else be? New warnings from Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei and OpenAI CEO Sam Altman bring the AI safety debate back to the forefront.

Then the guys dig into some troubling new content marketing research from Andy Crestodina and Orbit Media. Of 1,042 marketers surveyed, just 14% say their blogs deliver strong results. AI may be making content faster and easier to produce, but the strategies most closely associated with strong performance, including original research, expert collaboration and human editing, are actually being used less often.

Meanwhile, Perplexity is going big on creators, working with hundreds of influencers and running campaigns involving more than 100 creators and multi-million-dollar budgets. Is this further proof that as AI makes content creation cheaper, trusted human voices become even more valuable?

Joe's marketing winner is Meta and its work showing how Ray-Ban Meta AI glasses can help blind and low-vision users gain more independence. Robert's marketing loser is Nike, which is being removed from the S&P 100 after 18 years as the company struggles with a dramatic decline in market value.

Robert raves about HBO's new DC series Lanterns, while Joe recommends Harlan Coben's new book, Plot Twist: Life, Craft, and the Messy First Draft, part memoir and part practical look at the realities of the writing process.

Episode Links:

AI CEOs revive debate over risks to humanity Andy Crestodina's content marketing research Perplexity is betting big on creators Meta AI glasses for blind veterans Nike's S&P 100 removal and Dow concerns Lanterns on HBO Harlan Coben's Plot Twist

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor:Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

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This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Joe and Robert kick off the show with a look at the coming explosion of video creators and what happens when AI makes video creation essentially unlimited.

Then they dig into OpenAI's new Astra model, the debate over whether we've reached AGI, and the uncomfortable timing of Anthropic insiders warning that increasingly powerful AI could pose an existential risk.

Finally, it's prediction time. Joe and Robert make their 2026 NFL picks and pit their football knowledge against OpenAI and Claude. Who wins the Super Bowl? Who completely embarrasses themselves? We'll find out.

Articles from the show:

Billion New Video Creators Coming Soon

OpenAI GPT-6 Astra Review: Shockingly Good

Anthropic Insiders Warn AI Could Kill All Humans

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor:Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

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This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week, Joe and Robert look at Big Tech power, unexpected brand comebacks and the growing tension between AI efficiency and human trust.

Meta agreed to an enormous teen-safety settlement, including new limits around young users. But the most interesting part may be that billions of dollars are tied to competitors adopting similar protections. Is Meta turning a regulatory loss into a competitive advantage?

Google was found to have illegally monopolized key parts of the digital ad market, yet a federal judge declined to force the company to sell its ad exchange business. If the monopoly remains intact, what exactly did the antitrust case accomplish?

MapQuest suddenly became the No. 1 app in the U.S. after refusing to follow Google and Apple in renaming Lake Ontario. Is the lesson that brands should take more stands, or simply know the few things worth taking a stand on?

Joe's rant looks at New York City public schools placing a one-year moratorium on generative AI through eighth grade. The concern is understandable, but banning AI is easier than doing the harder work of creating guardrails and teaching students how to use it responsibly.

Joe's marketing loser is the growing use of AI-generated food images in restaurant menus and promotions, sometimes depicting food that looks nothing like the real product. AI should help market the product, not invent it.

Robert's marketing loser takes aim at the marketing industry's need to turn everything, including Dolly Parton's legacy, into a list of brand lessons.

And Robert's commentary looks at Jason Isbell and other musicians suing AI music company Suno over technology that allegedly imitates their voices and musical identities, potentially opening another major front in the battle between generative AI and human creators.

Articles from the show: Meta teen-safety settlement · Google ad-tech ruling · MapQuest comeback · NYC schools AI ban · AI food slop · Dolly Parton brand lessons · Jason Isbell vs. Suno, The New York Times

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor:Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

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This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

AI is already changing what students believe they should study, but maybe we're asking the wrong question. Joe and Robert discuss whether college should be less about choosing the perfect major and more about giving young people four years to think critically, read widely, write, speak, create, debate and become better prepared for whatever comes next.

The guys also look at the rush of major brands into Hollywood and entertainment. As traditional media struggles, companies including Gap, Toyota and Kraft Heinz are moving beyond sponsorships and building entertainment properties of their own.

Winner and Loser

Joe's winner is Raising Cane's, a company that turned extreme focus around one product into a remarkable brand, community and culture.

Robert's loser is Harvard Business School, which is using AI avatars of actual faculty members in its $699 HBS Foundry startup bootcamp. The avatars help founders rehearse pitches and board meetings while the program still includes live human sessions, raising a bigger question about what we're actually paying educators for in the age of AI.

Rants and Raves

Robert raves about Jimmy Iovine and Dr. Dre's new college curriculum. Joe's commentary is on Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson. What can we learn from his latest press disaster?

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor:Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

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This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

As Meta faces a massive lawsuit over allegedly addictive design, the guys discuss what implications there are for the future of Meta and for marketers and consumers.

They also look at ABC's lawsuit against the FCC and the bigger lesson for every marketer and creator: know who your landlord is. If someone else controls your access to the audience, they can always change the rules.

• Joe's winner: Puck, and its model of building human-led content franchises instead of traditional brand-centered content.
• Robert's winner/loser: Reddit and marketers.

• Joe raves about Niu Lai, the wildly imperfect Chinese animated movie finding an audience partly because it is unmistakably human.
• Robert raves about the TV series Blue Lights.

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor:Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

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This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Anthropic plans to watermark Claude-generated text, but what does that really prove? Joe and Robert discuss whether an AI mark could become a scarlet letter, even when AI only edited or assisted with the work.

Then, new creator research shows most creators still make very little money. The guys ask whether creators are chasing brand deals when they should be building real businesses, with Lofi Girl as a perfect example of turning content and audience into something much bigger.

Joe's Winner: Jungle Jim's International Market, for turning grocery shopping into an experience people actually talk about.

Robert's Loser: Brands potentially bankrolling AI misinformation through their advertising dollars.

Robert's Rant: The problems with outcome-based pricing for brands and agencies.

Joe's Rave: Perfect content may come down to two questions: Does creating it take care of you, and does it take care of someone else?

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

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This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

LinkedIn says it is declaring war on AI slop, even though the platform helped create the conditions that made endless generic content possible. Joe and Robert discuss LinkedIn's new cleanup efforts and whether platforms can distinguish low-quality AI content from valuable AI-assisted work.

Next, the boys cover the breaking story involving rogue AI agents from Anthropic and Meta. Is this marketing theatre or real-world training problems with AI?

Disney and TikTok are partnering to give creators access to Disney content and bring fan-made videos into the Disney+ experience. Is Disney empowering creators and strengthening fandom a good move, or too late?

In Marketing Winners and Losers, Robert's winner is Spotify for adding Merlin to its AI music-remix initiative. Joe's winner is Aéropostale's The Intern Diaries, featuring 16-year-old creator Déjà Clark as an active participant in both the content and product-development process.

In Rants and Raves, Robert raves about a New York Times article on AI transformation from Lululemon's former chief information officer. Joe rants about the Los Angeles Times comparing AI skills with an MBA and explains why knowing how to operate today's tools is not the same as learning strategy, judgment and critical thinking.

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

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This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week, the boys explore the rapidly changing relationship between companies, creators and employees.

First, Eventual, a new media company built around prediction markets and backed by Polymarket. Is this the future of accountable journalism, or simply gambling repackaged as news?

Next, Gap expands its creator program to employees, giving workers the opportunity to earn commissions by promoting Gap, Old Navy, Banana Republic and Athleta. Are employee creators an authentic new marketing channel, or are companies quietly adding "influencer" to everyone's job description?

Finally, brands such as Target are recruiting ordinary customers with as few as 500 followers to create promotional content. The influencer economy may be getting more accessible, but the brands receiving thousands of inexpensive advertisements could be the biggest winners.

Joe's winner is the New Bedford Whaling Museum and its ability to create a remarkable content and visitor experience.

Robert's loser is Meta and Google, as the platforms continue shifting more advertising responsibility, risk and decision-making onto their customers.

Joe raves about seeing Idina Menzel perform with the Cleveland Orchestra and the powerful lesson she shared about embracing what makes each person unique.

Robert comments on "formative debt" and asks whether relying too heavily on artificial intelligence could prevent people from developing the skills and experience they need to think, create and grow.

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their AEO and customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork