Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose kick off this week's episode by unpacking the TikTok "sale" and what actually happened behind the headlines. Was it really a sale? Why was a true divestiture nearly impossible? And what does the outcome tell us about platform risk, regulation, and the future of rented audiences.

From there, Joe and Robert shift into what they believe will be the most important marketing, content, and AI stories of 2026. Not predictions, but the conversations marketers will be having once the year is underway.

They dig into whether the long-awaited AI bubble ever actually bursts in marketing, how AI changes headcount and team structures, and what happens to the brand website when search and discovery are increasingly mediated by AI systems instead of humans.

The episode wraps with rants and raves. Robert rants about marketers' obsession with declaring everything dead, while Joe rants about Denmark's decision to shut down its postal service and what that signals for the future of physical letters and communication.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• What really happened with the TikTok deal and why it was never a traditional sale

• Why the AI "bubble" may never pop in marketing the way people expect

• How AI could lead to fewer marketing jobs, or more leverage for the right roles

• Why the role of the website is changing for brands and creators

• What Denmark ending postal service delivery says about the future of letters

Rants and raves:

• Robert's rant: Marketers love predicting the death of everything

• Joe's rant: Denmark shuts down postal service delivery and the slow disappearance of letters

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

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This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Joe and Robert kick off their annual predictions episode by grading last year's forecasts using ChatGPT. They revisit what hit, what missed, and why context often ruins otherwise solid predictions. Along the way, they discuss AI's uneven progress, platform power shifts, crypto hype, nostalgia marketing, podcast attrition, and the growing tension between tech optimism and cultural fatigue.

The episode closes with fresh predictions spanning marketing, media, sports, and culture.

Key Topics and Takeaways

2025 Predictions Reviewed (with AI grading)

• BlueSky stalls while X stabilizes and improves monetization

• TikTok avoids a ban and continues to grow despite regulatory pressure

• AI image tools (including early Sora) underwhelm initially

• Bitcoin fails to hit $200K despite strong institutional momentum

• Generative AI stumbles, but without a single catastrophic "AI Chernobyl"

• Online sports gambling faces increased scrutiny and structural pullbacks

• Podcast attrition accelerates quietly ("pod fading")

• Major brands lean hard into nostalgia as a hedge against AI sameness

• One major political prediction completely misses

2026 Prediction Overview

Joe goes deep into the importance of email as an indication of humanity and states that the reply rate will be the key KPI for email moving forward. In addition, he makes big bets on: - Famous creators stopping their channels - Elon Musk's net worth at the end of the year - Apple buying Disney

Robert believes that AI strategy will no longer be in vogue, and marketers will stop using it altogether because AI will be integrated into everything. Robert also discusses "the Mamdani effect" and how it will take over the election process. Tune in to the episode to get all the predictions right up to the very last minute.

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

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This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week on This Old Marketing, Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose unpack two seemingly separate Wall Street Journal stories that are actually deeply connected.

First, they dig into the WSJ article declaring that companies are now "desperately seeking storytellers." The irony is not lost on Joe and Robert. Storytelling in business is nothing new. Brands have been building audiences, publishing content, and creating narratives for decades. So is this really a new trend, or is the Wall Street Journal simply waking up to what marketers and creators have known all along?

They explore why the term "storyteller" is suddenly everywhere on LinkedIn, what companies really mean when they use it, and whether this shift represents real change or just a shiny new label for old work.

Next, the conversation turns to another WSJ piece highlighting the growing anxiety among white-collar workers. Layoffs, AI fears, fewer job openings, and slower hiring cycles are reshaping how knowledge workers feel about stability and career growth. Joe and Robert break down the data and argue that the real risk is not losing a job, but tying your identity to a single role or employer. Flexibility, curiosity, and the ability to adapt are becoming the most valuable skills in the modern economy.

In news, the co-founder of DraftKings launches a creator-led systems company designed to capitalize on the window of opportunity before AI-generated content floods the market. Joe and Robert discuss why productizing creators and building owned systems may be the smartest move right now in the creator economy.

Winners, Losers, Rants, and Raves

• Marketing Loser: In-N-Out, for taking "Order 67" off the menu rotation and confusing loyal fans everywhere.

• Joe's Winner: Tom Scott, for building a smart, thoughtful web presence that directly addresses AI scrapers and the future of content ownership.

• Joe's Rant: The growing push to integrate prediction markets into the mainstream financial system and why this could have serious unintended consequences.

• Robert's Rave: A tradition unlike any other. Robert closes the show with his annual holiday poem.

As always, Joe and Robert bring perspective, skepticism, and a little holiday spirit to wrap up the year.

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Joe and Robert open the episode with major breaking news: Disney is reportedly finalizing a $1 billion investment in OpenAI along with a licensing deal that would allow creators to use select Disney IP inside OpenAI tools. The boys unpack what this actually means—

• Why Disney is making this move now

• How this could transform creator workflows

• What Disney gets strategically vs. what OpenAI gains

• Whether this is the first domino in a wave of entertainment–AI partnerships

The $100 Billion Battle for Warner Bros. Discovery

Next, Joe and Robert dig into the increasingly chaotic race for Warner Bros., as Paramount, Skydance, and Netflix position themselves for what could be a $100B mega-deal. They discuss:

• Who really has the leverage

• Which bidder makes the most strategic sense

• Potential antitrust concerns

• Who stands to win (and who almost certainly loses) if this deal happens

Australia Moves to Ban Social Media for Kids Under 16

The conversation shifts to Australia's new legislation banning social media access for children under 16. Joe and Robert debate:

• Will it work?

• How would it even be enforced?

• Are governments finally becoming serious—or is this political theater?

• What responsibility platforms have in the mental-health crisis

Special Segment: Robert's AI Music Persona, Lyla Rae Hightower

A highlight of the episode, Robert takes listeners behind the scenes of creating his AI-powered music persona. He details:

• The creative spark behind the character

• Tools and workflows he used to bring the music to life

• Unexpected challenges in the process

• How he's distributing and promoting the project

• Why this experiment signals a new frontier for creators

Spotify https://open.spotify.com/artist/09m7OjGKcL1aOKKqyhZjui Apple Music https://music.apple.com/us/artist/lyla-rae-hightower/1857062007 YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDwdVLXGCWaO-SMOLuhSE8Q Website https://lylahightower.com/ Winners & Losers

• Marketing Loser of the Week: Salesforce — Joe walks through the company's confusing decision to consider a name change and what it signals about the brand's broader struggles.

• Rants & Raves: Joe ends with commentary on Kara Swisher's reporting around Apple possibly buying Disney—and whether such a deal is even remotely plausible.

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

The boys kick things off with a Black Friday breakdown and what it tells us about the K-shaped economy we now live in. Joe and Robert dig into spending trends, why some consumers are thriving while others are cutting back, and what this split means for marketers heading into 2026. They look at whether this year's patterns are temporary or structural, and what smart brands should prepare for next.

From there, they turn to YouTube. Advertisers continue to shift budgets to the platform, and the data shows that YouTube is both the present and the future of television. Joe and Robert talk about how ultra-niche creators might be the biggest hidden opportunity for small and mid-sized brands looking to win in the influencer economy.

The final story covers X and the platform's new "About Your Account" settings. Is it meaningful, helpful, or even newsworthy? The boys debate whether this is a real improvement or just another attempt to show activity without fixing the core issues.

Winners and Losers

Winner: Time Joe highlights Time as an example of a legacy brand doing things right, with a renewed focus on email subscribers and a strong commitment to in-person events. A modern media model built on direct relationships, not algorithms.

Loser: Omnicom and the PR industry Robert takes the gloves off with a critique of Omnicom and the state of PR. He questions whether the industry is adapting fast enough to the shifts in trust, media fragmentation, and brand storytelling.

Rants and Raves

Robert's Rant Robert digs into a recent IPG study and why he believes it misses the mark. He breaks down the assumptions behind the research and what marketers should actually pay attention to.

Joe's Rave Joe shares new research on gratitude and why it matters far more than most marketers realize. A positive scientific reminder that appreciation is a performance advantage, not just a personal virtue.

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

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This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Google's release of Gemini 3 may be the biggest shift in search and content discovery since Google launched. In this episode, Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose break down what Gemini means for marketers, creators, and anyone relying on organic reach.

Will Gemini end organic discovery as we know it? Will synthetic creators become the majority of all content online? And is there still a path forward for human creators?

Joe and Robert go deep into:

• Google's move from traditional search to a full AI-model

• Why this shift could make Google even more dominant

• What happens to creators when platforms auto-generate the content

• The new ad model emerging behind AI search

• The long-term implications for independent writers, podcasters, and entrepreneurs

Winners & Losers:

• Joe spotlights Allegiant Stadium as a branding masterclass

• Robert unveils a conspiracy theory surrounding Jeffrey Katzenberg's new AI marketing startup

Rants & Raves:

• Joe reacts to a Washington Post survey about people reading ChatGPT-created posts — and why he's concerned it could impact birth rates

• Robert shares the creative friction behind building an AI-generated country music artist

If you're a marketer, creator, or business owner trying to understand what's coming next, this is a must-listen episode.

News we didn't get to:

• Meta 'buried' more evidence
• Creator Economy ad spend up again

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

In this special Thanksgiving edition of This Old Marketing, Joe and Robert dive into the future of AI and what it really means for marketers, creators, and anyone trying to build an audience in the next few years. The boys explore how long traditional marketing roles will remain intact and why we may be much closer to a tipping point than most people want to believe.

The Window Is Closing

Joe and Robert revisit a theme they've both been writing about lately: the shrinking window of time before AI reshapes content, distribution, and discoverability. They break down what creators and marketers can still do right now to secure their position before the landscape shifts for good.

Their take: you have a few years. Maybe less. And waiting is not a strategy.

The Real Job of the Future

In a world where AI generates nearly everything instantly, Joe and Robert ask the big question: what will the actual marketing job look like five or ten years from now?

The answer isn't another technical role. It isn't prompt engineering. It isn't "AI operations."

The position of the future is rooted in skills AI can't replicate:

• Being known personally by real people

• Building in-person trust

• Hosting gatherings, leading communities, and showing up in the real world

• Connecting human beings to human beings

If AI floods the world with infinite content, the new scarcity becomes physical presence.

What Creators Must Do Next

The boys outline the shift every marketer and content entrepreneur must make: from chasing reach to cultivating real connections. From relying on platforms to building owned audiences. From algorithmic exposure to human relationships that cannot be automated.

This special episode is a wake-up call and a roadmap rolled into one.

Why This Matters Right Now

Thanksgiving is a time for reflection, and the episode closes with Joe and Robert reminding listeners that the next few years are arguably the most important years in the history of marketing.

AI will change everything. But it won't replace the marketers who understand what actually makes people move, trust, and gather.

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

The episode kicks off with a pointed look at Meta, which seems to be earning a fortune from fraudulent and scam ads. Joe and Robert trace the pattern back more than a decade…from election misinformation to repeated scandals. The question emerges: Is Meta the least ethical major player in the industry today?

This conversation naturally leads into a look at the growing AI bubble and Michael Burry's bet against The Magnificent Ten. While his prediction may eventually play out, the boys debate why we're likely still two years away from any real correction.

Top Stories Meta's Long History of Trouble

Joe and Robert walk through Meta's pattern of behavior, including the current windfall from scam ads, reminders of past election interference issues, and the repeated failure to effectively police the platform. The bigger question: if this is systemic, where does it go from here?

The AI Bubble and Michael Burry's Bet

The legendary investor who foretold the mortgage crisis is now shorting the biggest tech companies. The boys give context on why he might be early, what signals they're watching, and what marketers should learn from speculative hype cycles.

Disney Spends Up…But Not Where You Think

Disney is increasing content spending, but the bulk is shifting toward live sports and in-person experiences. Joe and Robert discuss what this means for marketers and why "experiential" continues to be a long-term bet.

Coke's AI Holiday Ad Maker Responds

The studio responsible for Coca-Cola's AI holiday ad gives its defense. Is this just another evolution of creative tools, or are creators right to be irritated? The boys break down the nuance.

Winners and Losers

• Joe's Winner: Netflix House Smart expansion into experiential entertainment. A real signal of where media companies are headed.

• Robert's Loser: The end of the Farmer's Almanac A long-running institution finally fades. Robert shares why this one stings and what it says about legacy content.

Rants and Raves

• Robert's Rant: Microsoft's sales content Robert has feelings…big ones. And he shares them.

• Joe's Commentary: Chatbot JesusWhat could go wrong?

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week, Joe and Robert cover three major AI stories shaping the creative and marketing landscape.

First, the guys break down the debut of Xania Monet, the first AI-powered artist to land on a Billboard chart. Is this the start of a new music era...or the beginning of the end for human creativity?

Next, they unwrap Coca-Cola's second annual holiday AI ad. But this year, it's not just Coke. Expect a wave of AI-generated holiday campaigns across brands. Joe and Robert debate what this means for creative differentiation and audience connection.

Finally, they analyze Bloomberry's massive study of 180 million jobs, revealing how AI is reshaping the global workplace faster than anyone imagined. Who's safe, who's not, and what can marketers learn from the data?

Winners and Losers:

• Robert's Winner: Gannett's bold rebrand to USA Today—a move that simplifies identity and aligns with its strongest brand equity.

• Joe's Winner: Print media. Joe points out the surprising long-term resilience of print and why physical media might be the next big comeback.

Rants and Raves:

• A new journalism collective forms to sell sponsorships - Robert shares his take on why collaboration is an important way forward for small creators.

• More college students are choosing double majors - Joe digs into what that says about the next generation of marketers.

Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.

This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

It's another wild week in the world of marketing, media, and tech.

First up: Amazon announced yet another round of layoffs, and Joe and Robert dive into the growing trend among the Magnificent 10 companies. Are these just normal business cycles? The result of AI-driven productivity? Or signs of something deeper happening in the global economy?

Then: OpenAI is restructuring to look more like a traditional for-profit company. With Microsoft now owning 27%, the boys debate what this means for control, innovation, and the company's future. Could OpenAI become the world's first trillion-dollar IPO?

Next: Morning Brew acquires a YouTube show about the news — and Joe explains why this is another major example of individual creators getting their work acquired and then integrating themselves into larger organizations.

In Marketing Winners & Losers, Robert dives into K-Pop Demon Hunters, while Joe highlights Elon Musk's Grokipedia.

And in Rants & Raves, Joe shares how email newsletters can literally get you hired, while Robert takes aim at the new WPP–Google AI partnership.

Listen to the full episode for all the analysis, tangents, and laughs you expect from Joe and Robert on This Old Marketing.

This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.

Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.

-------

Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/

Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.

Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/ Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/

-------

This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork