In this conversation, Mike and Pierre talk to Tobias Carlisle, Managing Principal and Chief Investment Officer at Acquirers Funds, LLC, and portfolio manager of ZIG and DEEP ETFs. Toby shares his approach to value investing and the historical perspective he brings to the art of investing. He also talks about the performance of value investing and the importance of staying consistent with your strategy. Our conversation highlights the benefits of a systematic and quantitative approach to investing. We explore the challenges and strategies of value investing. Toby emphasizes the importance of having a systematic design and sticking to a set of rules to avoid emotional and behavioral mistakes. We discuss the ideological debate between value and growth investing and the need for a balanced approach. Our conversation turns to the role of activism in value investing and the importance of avoiding ruin and focusing on survival. The conversation continues with Toby sharing his insights into portfolio construction and the baked-in returns of value investing. We further explore the concept of investing in value stocks and the challenges that come with it – the importance of considering the long-term perspective and the potential for high returns despite short-term fluctuations. Mike and Toby deconstruct the role of market feedback loops and the impact of market crashes on investment strategies. Toby highlights the significance of character and reputation in investing. We ask Toby about his upcoming book 'Invincible' and its exploration of the parallels between value investing, Sun Tzu's 'Art of War,' and Lao Tzu's 'Tao Te Ching.'