Trinities

This week I start with a long and insightful listener comment. Among other things, he asks how one's theology as unitarian or trinitarian affect one's discipleship, or how one follows Jesus as Lord. I give a short answer from my own experience here, confessing how my own confusions hindered my spiritual life.

The listener also asks: doesn't Locke require too little? In particular, mustn't a Christian also, minimally, believe that Jesus was raised from the dead, and that he is now ruling as Lord?

I argue that Locke, correctly, thinks that belief in Jesus as Messiah implies those beliefs as well, and I argue that he doesn't properly separate matters of belief (to what one must be committed in one's mind) from the issue of confession (what one must be willing to sincerely and publicly assert). Of course, to sincerely confess Jesus as Lord (or as Messiah) requires having certain beliefs, and I go through a long, and surely not exhaustive list of those here. Then we briefly compare this list to the famous "Apostles' Creed".

Finally, we hear more from Locke, including the last portion of his book, a well-crafted plea that we should believe that God must have revealed as required for salvation only beliefs which ordinary folk are capable of understanding, and so, believing.

Next week, we'll hear the very words of Locke's vehement critic, the Calvinist Anglican divine John Edwards. (1637-1716) We'll also hear a little of Locke's replies.

You can also listen to this episode on youtube.

Links for this episode:

Part 1 - podcast episode 52

My main discussion of "negative mysterianism" about the Trinity. (See also here.)

A previous post on the negative mysterian approach to the Trinity.

podcast episode 12, on the "Apostles's creed"

my interviews with William Hasker

my interviews with Stephen Holmes

What are the essential teachings which one must accept to be a Christian?

Dr. Ravi Zacharias is a popular, Indian-born, evangelical apologist, the author of many books and articles, a frequent public speaker, and a veteran of Christian radio.

Recently here at the trinities blog I received a reader question about an answer Dr. Zacharias gave about the Trinity in a recent public talk. In this episode, I review and critically examine that answer, and a few other of his statements on the Trinity which can be found on youtube (links below).

In the end, I find it hard to discern just what Dr. Zacharias thinks the Trinity doctrine is.Tweet This Some of his statements seem to imply that the Trinity is a self, and others seem to imply that it is a group of three selves. I don't find persuasive his argument that if God is perfect, then he must not be a single self. On the other hand, I find myself in agreement with him when he's preaching in a biblical mode.

You can also listen to this episode on youtube.

Links for this episode:

Ravi Zacharias International Ministries (bio, youtube channel)

Ravi Zacharias explains the Trinity

Ravi Zacharias Q & A: The Contradiction of the Trinity and DesCartes

Ravi On The Trinity

(The final sermon quoted here has been removed from all online video sites at the demand of the church at which he preached.)

My discussion of three-self vs. one-self Trinity theories is free here and available in print form here.

Preprint of my paper "On the Possibility of a Single Perfect Self".

Dr. Laurence Brown is an opthamologist, author, and Muslim apologist. In this episode of The Deen Show ("Deen" is Arabic for "religion" or "religious practice."), he gave his "Top 10 Reasons Why The Trinity Is Invalid." Does he disprove or undermine trinitarian theology? In this episode, I interact with and evaluate his reasons.

You can also listen to this episode on youtube.

This this 50th episode of the trinities podcast? Do you like the podcast, or have suggestions? Which were the best episodes? Upload some audio feedback here, for possible inclusion in a future episode.

Links for this episode:

The Deen Show

Dr. Laurence Brown's home page

podcast episode 11 - Tertullian the unitarian

podcast episode 30 - The Council of Nicea

Who Should Christians Worship? - Is worshiping Jesus idolatry?

God and his Son - the logic of the New Testament - on John 10

How Trinity Theories Conflict with the New Testament

Jesus was "in the form of God," but chose to empty himself, becoming like us. What do these famous statements by Paul mean?

In episode 48, I examined a common evangelical interpretation of this text and found it lacking.

In this episode, I compare scripture with scripture, to try to come up with a plausible, understandable, well-motivated interpretation.

Can the authors of Genesis, Isaiah, Hebrews, and Revelation, along with other texts by Paul, help us to understand what Paul is and is not asserting in the second chapter of his letter to the Philippians? Here I argue for the affirmative. Are you convinced by my case?

You can also listen to this episode on Stitcher or iTunes (please subscribe, rate, and review us in either or both – directions here). It is also available on YouTube (scroll down – you can subscribe here). If you would like to upload audio feedback for possible inclusion in a future episode of this podcast, put the audio file here.

You can support the trinities podcast by ordering anything through Amazon.com after clicking through one of our links. We get a small % of your purchase, even though your price is not increased. (If you see “trinities” in you url while at Amazon, then we’ll get it.)

Links for this episode:

Helpful commentary on Philippians 2 from biblicalunitarian.com.

An informative article by Ray Faircloth on Philippians 2, from christianmonotheism.com.

Our "Paul" has a new single - and it's good!

Does Paul's letter to the Philippians, chapter 2 teach that Jesus is God himself, and that at certain point in time about 2,000 years ago, Jesus became a man, letting go of his equality with God, and thereby divesting himself of his glory, or the use of his attributes, to become a human like us, but obedient to the point of death?

In this episode we hear this interpretation, as preached by Dr. Timothy J. Keller, author and pastor of the Redeemer Presbyterian Church in New York City, in his sermon "Imitating the Incarnation."

I lodge some objections against this interpretation, focusing on the passage's theology, and on the meaning of two crucial Greek terms.

Next week, I'll present a different understanding of what Paul means in this famous passage.

The commanding voice of Paul in this and previous episodes is Mr. Dominick Baldwin of Industry Audio. Be sure to contact him if your business or church is looking for an impressive voiceover.

You can also listen to this episode on Stitcher or iTunes (please subscribe, rate, and review us in either or both – directions here). It is also available on YouTube (scroll down – you can subscribe here). If you would like to upload audio feedback for possible inclusion in a future episode of this podcast, put the audio file here.

You can support the trinities podcast by ordering anything through Amazon.com after clicking through one of our links. We get a small % of your purchase, even though your price is not increased. (If you see “trinities” in you url while at Amazon, then we’ll get it.)

In this episode we hear the audio of Dr. Padgett's talk “Informal Reason and the Idea of a Christian Philosophy” of April 25, 2014 at Claremont McKenna College, at the retirement conference in honor of Stephen T. Davis.

In this wide-ranging talk, Dr. Padgett discusses human reasoning (with special reference to science), and 20th century debates about the idea of a Christian philosophy.

You can also hear this episode on youtube.

Links for this episode:

Dr. Padgett's professional home page

the problem of induction

informal logic

classical [formal] logic

Jacques Maritain

Etienne Gilson

Alvin Plantinga's "Advice to Christian Philosophers"

D.Z. Philips, "Advice to Philosophers Who Are Christians"

The Blackwell Companion to Science and Christianity

Christianity and Western Thought, Vol. 3

In this episode I talk with Professor Timothy Winter (a.k.a. Shaikh Abdal-Hakim Murad), an Islamic theologian at Cambridge University. He's the author of a chapter called "The Trinity is Incoherent" in the 2013 collection edited by J.P. Moreland, Chad Meister, and Khaldoun A. Sweis, Debating Christian Theism. It was paired with a chapter by Dr. Tom Senor, a Christian philosopher from the University of Arkansas, called "The Trinity is Coherent."

These chapters are very different; Senor's is entirely philosophical and apologetic, whereas Winter's is biblical and pastoral. Senor argues: it is not contradictory. Winter argues: it's not in the Bible, it's not an idea of Jesus's, and it is a barrier to spiritual life.

Here I summarize Dr. Senor's chapter before conversing with Professor Winter about his. We talk about his Christian background, his views on the gospels, and his reaction to Dr. Senor's chapter.

You can also listen to this episode on youtube. (Or: itunes.)

Some relevant links:

Timothy Winter's personal homepage.

Dixon's Nice and Hot Disputes - on some of the late 17th c. trinitarian-unitarian debates Professor Winters mentions.

Christian theologian Geoffrey Lampe's God as Spirit.

A 2010 article where Professor Winter discusses his conversion to Islam.

The text of a 1996 talk by Professor Winter, " The Trinity: A Muslim Perspective".

A video of Professor Winter in a mosque or madrasah teaching Muslims about the Trinty.

A piece of an academic lecture by Professor Winter on Jesus in the Qur'an. And on Christianity.

In this less biographical episode, Sir Anthony and I discuss various Christian mistakes: obsession with Hebrew names for God and for Jesus, keeping kosher food laws and Jewish holidays, the doctrine of tithing, and even the avoidance of doctors (as if that showed a lack of faith in God).

Another mistake was discarding the simple, messianic gospel preached by Jesus, including his Jewish theology of one God, the Father. Jesus, Sir Anthony has argued, was not a trinitarian, and we, as his disciples, shouldn't be either. He suggests that the apostle's (Jesus') creed should be ours.

Another mistake: the widespread unwillingness by conservative, and especially Protestant Christians to think critically about trinitarian traditions, and specifically the 4th c. catholic consensus I discussed with Dr. Holmes in episode 42.

Finally, how could divine providence allow The Church to go so wrong, for so long, on such a central matter as the doctrine of God?

And if unitarian theology is true, then why 19th century unitarianism fail, morphing into a non-Christian movement. One reason (among many), we agree, is some early modern unitarians' wrongheaded denunciation of worship of and prayer to Jesus as "Christian idolatry."

You can also listen to this episode on youtube.

Links:

Jesus was not a Trinitarian

Jesus Wars by Philip Jenkins - on the process leading up to the Council of Chalcedon in 451

On the issue of the worship of Jesus, Sir Anthony agrees with this presentation (and paper) of mine.

My reprints of some early modern unitarian and trinitarian books.

I first encountered Sir Anthony Buzzard (yes, he's a real "Sir", and his wife Barbara a "Lady") in the endnotes of Dallas Willard's The Divine Conspiracy. Willard had referred to his short book The Coming Kingdom of the Messiah. Buzzard and Willard have in common a deep grasp of the good news of the Kingdom as preached by Jesus, and the centrality of God the Father to this.

I've since gotten to know him through his books, and through the yearly theological conference he organizes with Atlanta Bible College. He is a true gentleman, an inspiring Christian, and a penetrating interpreter of the Bible. He is, at heart, a Reformer, in the Radical mode. Stubborn but humble, he's one of a long line of Christians since the Reformation who've discovered that the Bible teaches the one God to be none other than the Father. Like me, he's a biblical unitarian.

Here I talk with Sir Anthony about his spiritual journey, from the Church of England, to the Worldwide Church of God, to studies with Christadelphians, to his long time association with the Church of God General Conference. We also discuss his friend and one-time co-author Charles Bunting, and a few of the theological issues he has wrestled with, including Sabbath-keeping, and the literal reality of Satan.

You can also listen to this episode on youtube. You can also subscribe via itunes.

Next week I'll again talk with Sir Anthony about various issues, including recent "Hebrew Roots" movements, Jesus's teaching about the one God, Christian anti-intellectualism, God's allowing theological errors in mainstream Christianity, and Christian worship of Jesus.

Links:

Sir Anthony's Restoration Fellowship website

Jesus was not a Trinitarian

The Doctrine of the Trinity: Christianity's Self-Inflicted Wound

Our Fathers Who Aren't in Heaven

The Coming Kingdom of the Messiah

"Five Options in Christology"

"An Interview in Atlanta" [by  J. Dan Gill]

"Jesus - The Spirit and the Word"

"To Sabbath or Not to Sabbath? Anthony Buzzard and J. Dan Gill"

Atlanta Bible College